California Red sticker program ending

kakarot
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kakarot
Edited Date/Time 6/30/2021 11:55am
Good read regarding the end of the red sticker program in California,looks like it may be time to stock up on red sticker bikes and parts.
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/orrec/redsticker_proposal.pdf?_ga…
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KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 8/30/2018 5:24pm
8/30/2018 5:24pm
Apparently cars pollute less than an offroad vehicle.

Never mind the fact there are 14.5 Million cars registered in California that are operational daily, but the major problem are those 45,000 dirt bikes and quads operated a handful of days per year that are gross polluters and need to be banned.

This state becomes more and more ridiculous by the day.
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VRR7
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VRR7 8/30/2018 5:40pm
8/30/2018 5:40pm
They go after soft targets to pretend for the electorate. If they are serious about poisonous emission they should start at the top - Ban Jet planes in California , Diesel Trucks and Ships . Once that is done then if they still have an emission problem they can look at dirt bike emissions. I am guessing but if they banned all dirt bikes in CA it would not fix their pollutant problem. Dirt bikes are an easy political safe target to pretend politicians - Be real start with the top ie Worse offenders and work your way down - So they say carburetor dirt bikes bikes are worse than cars but how many cars are there ? They would have a better effect if their math was correct and they reduced the amount of cars in correct proportions to dirt bike - Say they have 100 dirt bikes per 1000 000 cars bike give 1g of wtf they claim and cars give 0.25 that means the bike give 100g and cars give 250g - getting rid of 500 000 cars would do more to help the emissions than 100% of the dirt bikes - Not to factor in the amount of earth resources the cars has to use to be built compared to the bike since the bike uses way less material is has way less impact - But cars mean money and is not a soft target - If they reduced 1/5 the cars allowed on the streets their votes and political support would take a dive but would effect emission control better than focusing on bikes - Never mind real toxic emissions from diesel trucks - You can suck 2t fumes for hours but diesels fumes are a no go for any period - Go figure !!!!!
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 8/30/2018 5:52pm
8/30/2018 5:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2018 6:02pm
This is outdated info. Program has been extended indefinitely from what I recall. If not indefinitely, then for many years to come. It did come with some provisions though... Something about doing further studies on environmental impacts (naturally...).

Edit: upon a tidbit of research this may actually be part of that provision to be able to make changes based on environmental impacts. I'm having trouble finding the previous ruling...
RandyS
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RandyS 8/30/2018 5:54pm
8/30/2018 5:54pm
The good news is that if you're arrested for operating a red sticker bike during the green sticker season for the next 7 years you will be able to get out without that pesky bail.
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H4L
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H4L 8/30/2018 6:02pm
8/30/2018 6:02pm
What a bunch of political BS ! I never understood this law when it 1st passed & had similiar thoughts as above.
When I go down highway 880 by the port of Oakland I think about how much pollution is going in the air from all the diesel trucks & ships. The smog is so thick sometimes from different sources in the Bay Area it looks like fog. Yet they go after a small demographic of polluters that probably only makes up for 5% of the overall pollution.
Hopefully these bright minds behind all this BS can really end the red sticker program.
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Tryhard
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Tryhard 8/30/2018 6:08pm
8/30/2018 6:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2018 6:16pm
VRR7 wrote:
They go after soft targets to pretend for the electorate. If they are serious about poisonous emission they should start at the top - Ban Jet...
They go after soft targets to pretend for the electorate. If they are serious about poisonous emission they should start at the top - Ban Jet planes in California , Diesel Trucks and Ships . Once that is done then if they still have an emission problem they can look at dirt bike emissions. I am guessing but if they banned all dirt bikes in CA it would not fix their pollutant problem. Dirt bikes are an easy political safe target to pretend politicians - Be real start with the top ie Worse offenders and work your way down - So they say carburetor dirt bikes bikes are worse than cars but how many cars are there ? They would have a better effect if their math was correct and they reduced the amount of cars in correct proportions to dirt bike - Say they have 100 dirt bikes per 1000 000 cars bike give 1g of wtf they claim and cars give 0.25 that means the bike give 100g and cars give 250g - getting rid of 500 000 cars would do more to help the emissions than 100% of the dirt bikes - Not to factor in the amount of earth resources the cars has to use to be built compared to the bike since the bike uses way less material is has way less impact - But cars mean money and is not a soft target - If they reduced 1/5 the cars allowed on the streets their votes and political support would take a dive but would effect emission control better than focusing on bikes - Never mind real toxic emissions from diesel trucks - You can suck 2t fumes for hours but diesels fumes are a no go for any period - Go figure !!!!!
Dude you should read a book once in a while , anything that burns gas puts out far more toxic chemicals into the environment then diesel. You may entertain some , but not the ones who know the science . Not pertaining to you , but some of you guys must really be living under a rock in California...
There is not a diesel engine in the world that can completely burn the barely refined oil fuel that that they use , thus barely putting out any carbon monoxide because it's not spent / burnt .


Arnold knows best ......

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barnett468
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barnett468 8/30/2018 6:10pm
8/30/2018 6:10pm
This is all greek to me. Exactly what is the difference between a red sticker and a green sticker and what year bikes does each affect?

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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 8/30/2018 6:12pm
8/30/2018 6:12pm
After more digging it seems CARB is really pushing on making changes and ending the red sticker program. Crazy how time flies... The extension I was thinking of happened last year, but it didn't mean dick apparently.
Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 8/30/2018 6:24pm
8/30/2018 6:24pm
You diesel haters kill me.
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JM485
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JM485 8/30/2018 6:27pm
8/30/2018 6:27pm
CARB is always a good case study for statistic manipulation and the systematic omission of unfavorable facts.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/30/2018 6:47pm
8/30/2018 6:47pm
From the ARB report:

CARB Priorities For A Regulatory Proposal

1. Reduce emissions
◦ Eliminate future sales of uncontrolled vehicles
◦ Realize expected benefits of 2013 evaporative rule ◦ Set stage for future emission reductions
BAMX
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BAMX 8/30/2018 7:00pm
8/30/2018 7:00pm
Maybe we could just take the 1 million plus illegal aliens that the Governor gave drivers licenses to with their mostly older higher polluting vehicles off the road and we would have way better air quality.
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Xeno
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Xeno 8/30/2018 8:12pm
8/30/2018 8:12pm
Interesting report.
My takeaway is that ARB can’t enforce its current rules, so the plan is to prevent OEMs from selling non-compliant models in the future.
Ted722
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Ted722 8/30/2018 8:24pm
8/30/2018 8:24pm
All I kmow is all my bikes are grandfathered in. Can I still use a plastic ratio rite? These straw laws are getting too close to my safe space.
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barnett468
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barnett468 8/30/2018 8:32pm
8/30/2018 8:32pm
barnett468 wrote:
This is all greek to me. Exactly what is the difference between a red sticker and a green sticker and what year bikes does each affect?

H4L wrote:
Here you go.. A quick google search will give you the info..

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/…
ok thanks, but now exactly wtf is seasonal use? You can only ride your bike at ohv parks from november 31st thru december 3rd or something lame like that?

"Red stickers are issued to OHVs that can use California OHV riding areas for seasonal use only."

These people are so incredibly retarded because the majority of the vehicles they let use the parks year round pollute a bazillion times more than most, if not all 2002 and newer non calif smog legal vehicles do.
Rooster
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Rooster 8/30/2018 8:33pm
8/30/2018 8:33pm
Those electric bikes are looking better and better all the time.
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 8/30/2018 8:34pm
8/30/2018 8:34pm
Excaliburbmx wrote:
You diesel haters kill me.
but we want our stuff now....damn, dirty trucks(although majority are clean idle, always easy to blame trucks), not in my town...say, whers's our food and shit paper?

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JM485
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JM485 8/30/2018 8:41pm
8/30/2018 8:41pm
BAMX wrote:
Maybe we could just take the 1 million plus illegal aliens that the Governor gave drivers licenses to with their mostly older higher polluting vehicles off...
Maybe we could just take the 1 million plus illegal aliens that the Governor gave drivers licenses to with their mostly older higher polluting vehicles off the road and we would have way better air quality.
When you consider that this has a lot more to do with control rather than emissions it begins to make sense why logical and effective solutions aren't considered. Especially one that would hurt their voting base. . .

If this weren't a government agency they would likely consult with members of the industry in question and come to some sort of reasonable plan to move forward with, but instead they decided to continue burying their heads in the sand and making complete asses out of themselves with reports like this that leave huge gaps in the data and look completely asinine to anyone with a hint of practical knowledge about ohvs.

Lets start with the fact that they're comparing dirtbikes that are ridden probably once a week on average for about two hours total run time, to a clean running 2018 model year vehicle with so much smog equipment it can hardly breath, that is likely run for multiple hours per day. Or we can begin to pick apart the fact that they've conveniently left out the real figure that matters, how much of the TOTAL emissions pie that ohvs are responsible for. I think anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time can probably determine why that was overlooked. . .
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SeaClassExpert 8/30/2018 8:55pm
8/30/2018 8:55pm
JM485 wrote:
CARB is always a good case study for statistic manipulation and the systematic omission of unfavorable facts.
CARB is literally the definition of Fake Fucking News
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endurox
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endurox 8/30/2018 9:08pm
8/30/2018 9:08pm
All the motorcycle companies have major corporate offices in the PRC. Just move out of there over to Az, NV or Idaho. Stop selling products to the PRC. Yes Ca. is a big market but the other 49 states are subsidizing the extra costs to get a bike legal in Ca.. Plus corporate taxes are extremely high there.
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 8/30/2018 9:16pm
8/30/2018 9:16pm
Thanks for the post. My take:
Affects new sales only.
No OHV use of non-green sticker bikes. No red sticker.
Racing exemption TBD, but at least acknowledged.
Used red sticker, especially two strokes, went up in value. Average guy could get a four stroke green sticker and get it race ready. Two strokes aren’t green sticker, or is the new Ktm TPI legal? Have to check.
Sprew
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Sprew 8/30/2018 9:20pm
8/30/2018 9:20pm
VRR7 wrote:
They go after soft targets to pretend for the electorate. If they are serious about poisonous emission they should start at the top - Ban Jet...
They go after soft targets to pretend for the electorate. If they are serious about poisonous emission they should start at the top - Ban Jet planes in California , Diesel Trucks and Ships . Once that is done then if they still have an emission problem they can look at dirt bike emissions. I am guessing but if they banned all dirt bikes in CA it would not fix their pollutant problem. Dirt bikes are an easy political safe target to pretend politicians - Be real start with the top ie Worse offenders and work your way down - So they say carburetor dirt bikes bikes are worse than cars but how many cars are there ? They would have a better effect if their math was correct and they reduced the amount of cars in correct proportions to dirt bike - Say they have 100 dirt bikes per 1000 000 cars bike give 1g of wtf they claim and cars give 0.25 that means the bike give 100g and cars give 250g - getting rid of 500 000 cars would do more to help the emissions than 100% of the dirt bikes - Not to factor in the amount of earth resources the cars has to use to be built compared to the bike since the bike uses way less material is has way less impact - But cars mean money and is not a soft target - If they reduced 1/5 the cars allowed on the streets their votes and political support would take a dive but would effect emission control better than focusing on bikes - Never mind real toxic emissions from diesel trucks - You can suck 2t fumes for hours but diesels fumes are a no go for any period - Go figure !!!!!
Tryhard wrote:
Dude you should read a book once in a while , anything that burns gas puts out far more toxic chemicals into the environment then diesel...
Dude you should read a book once in a while , anything that burns gas puts out far more toxic chemicals into the environment then diesel. You may entertain some , but not the ones who know the science . Not pertaining to you , but some of you guys must really be living under a rock in California...
There is not a diesel engine in the world that can completely burn the barely refined oil fuel that that they use , thus barely putting out any carbon monoxide because it's not spent / burnt .


Arnold knows best ......

You may want to address the Diesel's "sooty particle" output. (it's high).
kakarot
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kakarot 8/30/2018 9:34pm
8/30/2018 9:34pm
Xeno wrote:
Interesting report.
My takeaway is that ARB can’t enforce its current rules, so the plan is to prevent OEMs from selling non-compliant models in the future.
Mine too,also if I'm understanding correctly seems to be targeting competition bikes/closed course red sticker and their use on practice days or closed course non competition.
KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 8/30/2018 9:53pm
8/30/2018 9:53pm
If reading correctly, in 2025 a bike is either green sticker eligible or it isn’t. Making it closed course only (tracks). This will finalize their original goal in 1997 of eliminating new 2 strokes from California public lands. It just took them 28 years to accomplish.

Here’s 1 issue, technically to transport an off highway vehicle in California, in your truck/van/etc. it must have a green/red sticker.

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EZZA 95B 8/30/2018 10:07pm
8/30/2018 10:07pm
Tryhard wrote:
Dude you should read a book once in a while , anything that burns gas puts out far more toxic chemicals into the environment then diesel...
Dude you should read a book once in a while , anything that burns gas puts out far more toxic chemicals into the environment then diesel. You may entertain some , but not the ones who know the science . Not pertaining to you , but some of you guys must really be living under a rock in California...
There is not a diesel engine in the world that can completely burn the barely refined oil fuel that that they use , thus barely putting out any carbon monoxide because it's not spent / burnt .


Arnold knows best ......

Don't worry about the carcinogens, roll that coal, looks awesome!
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KAB
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KAB 8/30/2018 10:09pm
8/30/2018 10:09pm
they are going after evaporative emissions now. That means raw fresh fuel that evaporates into the atmosphere. They want closed loop fuel injection with evaporative controls as much as possible, (This is why they are going after your gas cans, for evaporative reasons) so the carburetor is dead. Two strokes can survive but they will need to be fuel injected. 4 strokes will probably have to have better evaporative controls on their gas tanks but the good news is most fuel Injected 4 strokes should now be green stickered. They will even include older 4 strokes to make everyone happy. But carburetored 2 strokes are going bye bye under this. This is my take.
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BAMX
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BAMX 8/31/2018 6:26am
8/31/2018 6:26am
BAMX wrote:
Maybe we could just take the 1 million plus illegal aliens that the Governor gave drivers licenses to with their mostly older higher polluting vehicles off...
Maybe we could just take the 1 million plus illegal aliens that the Governor gave drivers licenses to with their mostly older higher polluting vehicles off the road and we would have way better air quality.
JM485 wrote:
When you consider that this has a lot more to do with control rather than emissions it begins to make sense why logical and effective solutions...
When you consider that this has a lot more to do with control rather than emissions it begins to make sense why logical and effective solutions aren't considered. Especially one that would hurt their voting base. . .

If this weren't a government agency they would likely consult with members of the industry in question and come to some sort of reasonable plan to move forward with, but instead they decided to continue burying their heads in the sand and making complete asses out of themselves with reports like this that leave huge gaps in the data and look completely asinine to anyone with a hint of practical knowledge about ohvs.

Lets start with the fact that they're comparing dirtbikes that are ridden probably once a week on average for about two hours total run time, to a clean running 2018 model year vehicle with so much smog equipment it can hardly breath, that is likely run for multiple hours per day. Or we can begin to pick apart the fact that they've conveniently left out the real figure that matters, how much of the TOTAL emissions pie that ohvs are responsible for. I think anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time can probably determine why that was overlooked. . .
I would say that it is more about BS politics than control. Recent activities like plastic straw laws and getting rid of bail for criminals has me wondering if they are just pandering to the far extreme of their base. If it were for environmental reasons as stated, they would get rid of illegal alien driving. That would make an instant massive impact.

As for the bikes being used once a week for a few hours, I would guess that you are way high on that estimate. Most of the older bikes sit in the garage all but a few weekends a year only to be drug out for Thanksgiving, New Years and Presidents day weekends at the desert. The only reason that they are still registered is that the DMV will automatically send you to collections if you don't.
H4L
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H4L 8/31/2018 8:06am
8/31/2018 8:06am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
Good thing i just bought an Alta Grinning
If I have to resort to buying an electric bike that's when I'll be hanging up my boots & helmet.
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