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C U @ Colorado National?
The old 100/130 had 4 grams if I remember right, but its only availble in a few states and countries now. Its rare.
And resets numbers are far off. The UL94 coming down the road is basically 100LL with the lead out.
well resetjet is the name given. New jets are just like your home computer. It malfunctions. You turn it off and turn it back on and the problem goes away. Fun trying to explain to passengers how we are doing this when the cabin gets dark.
And for Bob PA. 100LL is the name. The reason for the 100LL is that the original fuel which was 80/130 and dyed red had tons of lead in it. Basically that is why the 130 octane rating. Add a shitload of lead to the worst fuel in the world and it will break records in the octane world. 100LL is what took its place and has far less lead. However, it has twice the lead of what was in 89 octane car gas when it was legal. Trust me when you "lead foul" enough airplane plugs you will understand. Any pilot on her who has cleaned bottom plugs on an airplane will attest to this.
This is almost like discussing two stroke oil or two stroke EFI.
Totally wrong. The original was 100/130. And it was green, not red.
And it has/had about the same amount of lead as say VP C12.
80/87 was red, and it was phased out so long ago I think it was in the late 90s early 2000s.
It had 0.14 grams of lead per gallon which is basically nothing.
100 LL has 1.2-2.0 grams per gallon.
The Shop
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Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
True story a while back in the 90's the Factory Yamaha World Championship road race team was testing at a circuit in Sydney and had sent their equipment and fuel over for the test Sonoco was making a fuel just for them and shipping it all over the world air freight @ $4000 a drum with the shipping...... well they didn't send enough to get through the test and ran out....... Kenny Roberts sent me ( I worked for the Aussie Yamaha team ) to the local airport to get 400lts of Av gas. If those guys would use it who am i to argue!
I have used Av gas in 2 and four stoke engines for 20 years and only stopped using it regularly when they made it so hard to buy.
It is a better fuel for detonation wear and quality. There is some truth in that timing and jetting is a little different..it does run a tad richer and burn a tad slower but It generally makes more power and burns cooler than Pump fuel.
Some race gas guys will point these out as major negative points but facts are it works gerat and is way way cheeper and better than any unleaded fuel and some race gas!
50/50 100LL avgas/87 pump will give you very close to 96 Octane measured R+M/2.
If all you can get is E10, You'll be running roughly 5% ethanol 96 octane with this blend, rather than the 10% ethanol 93 octane swill from the pump. I am fortunate enough to be able to get 87/93 octane ethanol free gas here in VA to blend with the avgas.
Not the best but a higher quantity of known fuel helps mitigate the wholly unknown. There are other folks that say mixing race fuel/avgas with 10% ethanol gasoline is a waste of time. I disagree. There is an old adage in basic chemistry... "The solution to pollution is dilution".
Less ethanol and higher octane with the 50/50 avgas/87 pump, but not too much at about 96 octane for stock compression in most cases. Also, there will be a lowered amount of tetraethyl lead, but enough to be somewhat beneficial, depending on your viewpoint.
Ethanol is actually a decent cleaner. It is ethanol's propensity to want to harbor water that gives it a deserved bad rap in E10 if unused quickly.
Your call here.
Of course they aren’t running 100LL either...
The simple guide to fuel is knowing if the fuel is leaded, unleaded, ethanol free and or oxygenated. Running standard old unleaded is ok but the ethanol is the problem in the long run, so find ethanol free if possible. Running a leaded oxygenated fuel like VPR/u4.4 etc is great for the bike and keeps deposits to a minimum. For those not wanting an aggressive, wallet friendly fuel run something like T4 which is not leaded but IS Oxygenated. It is also ethanol free and keeps deposits way down. The oxygenation level in the fuel is what causes the pour in power increase not the MON or motor knock index rating. Just because you bought some 110 doesnt mean your bike is going run better. If its not oxygenated all you are doing is increasing the knock index and protecting against detonation. I could write a novel on fuel but these little details are key. Hope this helps clear up all the misinformed gouge in this thread.....USMC F&E Tech and former MX/SX Tech.
Do not run AV101 or 100LL or AV Fuel period. It will cause a build up of Tetraethyl lead on the piston and valve train. Av fuel is designed for use in altitude and with the AV engines running much lower RPMS. Ive ran multiple tests with AV101 and here is what happened EVERY time. We went to change the spark plug at between 15 and 25 hours on both bikes. The spark plugs acted as if they were corroded in the cylinder head and after some serious elbow grease the broke free. The actual threads were frozen into the Cylinder head due to the TEL build up. The valves were coated in the hard calcified looking build up and so was the piston crown. Yes, the bikes ran fine during the test period (they were on the lean side of course) so there was no prior indication that anything negative was happening. Its simply not designed for high rpms bikes stock or modded. Thats the barney style breakdown with av fuel.
The simple guide to fuel is knowing if the fuel is leaded, unleaded, ethanol free and or oxygenated. Running standard old unleaded is ok but the ethanol is the problem in the long run, so find ethanol free if possible. Running a leaded oxygenated fuel like VPR/u4.4 etc is great for the bike and keeps deposits to a minimum. For those not wanting an aggressive, wallet friendly fuel run something like T4 which is not leaded but IS Oxygenated. It is also ethanol free and keeps deposits way down. The oxygenation level in the fuel is what causes the pour in power increase not the MON or motor knock index rating. Just because you bought some 110 doesnt mean your bike is going run better. If its not oxygenated all you are doing is increasing the knock index and protecting against detonation. I could write a novel on fuel but these little details are key. Hope this helps clear up all the misinformed gouge in this thread.....USMC F&E
So don't run 100LL with 1.2 to 2.0 grams per gallon,because it will screw everyrhing up but run race fuel with 4-6 grams per gallon because it will keep deposits to a minimum?
LOL.
Key points:
-100LL is not 100 octane as we rate it for pump gas (R+M/2). It is actually ~96 octane by that measure.
-Quality and consistency is better than pump
-Shelf life is better than pump.
-Cheaper because you are not paying Road Taxes. Legally it's like running red dye... no no on the street.
-Lower Specific gravity than pump (density) means you actually run leaner with the same jetting.
-Important one here! Lower flame speed than race gas. 100LL is designed for 3500RPM operation. If you run consistently higher than that you will be spitting unburnt fuel out the pipe. Most pre-run or play cars don't spend too much time over 3500RPM
Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas...
My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.
Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not science, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need.
In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66.
The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco.
AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106.
AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT.
I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines.
Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.
Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.
You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines.
The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.
AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.
Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.
AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter.
Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available.
Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.
Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber.
I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course.
To answer your question, nobody is running 15 dollar per gallon gas in a plane except in the air races(Mentioned above by someone else), and that fuel has EVEN MORE TEL in it. 6 grams plus.
And race and moto engines arent ran for years to see a measurable buildup of anything! Even Carbon in a 2 stroke.
Back to AV101, That might be a military version of 100LL, just like they use JP-5 (AVCAT)and JP-8, and the commercial fuel is Jet-A and Jet -A1. Not a whole lot of differences if you look at the specs of all.
If you look at the breakdown of components of all gasolines, other than ratios of the actual blends, most have all the same ingredients. There is nothing special about fuels.
The TEL in Av Gas is the same exact TEL in race fuels. All the other IsoOctanes, Hydrocarbons, etc etc are all the same stuff. Just different quantities for the desired blend.
Pit Row
I also mentioned on 3 Companies were cracking their own base for race fuel decades ago(Phillips 66, 76 and Sunoco), and I thought it was down to 2 being Sunoco and 76 with the Track Tek lines ,
and Now I see it is only one left from your post.
When Sunoco bought out Trick racing gas(Phillips 66 rebranded), all the sellers put up Sunoco signs.
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