Ken Roczen's hand

leighracer
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leighracer 3/21/2018 7:22pm
3/21/2018 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2018 7:25pm
Deathcross? So for the record, it's OK to use perjorative language that is mostly untrue (very few riders have actually died racing Supercross) but it's not OK so sling insults and one sentence retorts. TXDirt has apparently been appointed to the Internet Police Dept. Congrats Bro!
8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 3/21/2018 7:23pm
3/21/2018 7:23pm
Sure.....because crashes never happen outdoors and riders never get injured. The whole argument is ridiculous.

Motocross is dangerous and there have always been injuries. Some years are worse than others. The idea of slowing bikes down isn't going to help....riders get hurt all the time in 250's. It is not the power or the "big" jumps. They are generally getting hurt on smaller sections/whoops etc. How many guys got hurt on 125's? Happened all the time!

I think for Supercross the answer is slowing the tracks down. Have more walls and deep sections whether sand or really deep tilled sections. Tight bowl corners and big whoops with offset rhythm sections. Long straightaways with passing opportunities. With that said, would you enjoy it as much if there wasn't the quad in St. Louis? I know I loved watching the boys send it.

H4L
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H4L 3/21/2018 7:27pm
3/21/2018 7:27pm
kiwifan wrote:
A interesting point about the crashes and whether that does impact Honda's sales...I think when those crashes happened a lot of sales for that years models...
A interesting point about the crashes and whether that does impact Honda's sales...I think when those crashes happened a lot of sales for that years models were probably mostly done by then, but even then I doubt it would impact a prospective buyers choice, not as though I am seeing the same type of crashes at the races I attend, in fact the new models have actually seen more red up front rather than on the ground at the races I attend...that is more likely to attract sales then a professional SX (or MX1) rider crash.

I think the crashes in SX/MX1 also speak to rider error...and my own personal opinion...

Roczen's MEC crash, by his own admission he screwed that one up himself
Roczen's A2 (or was it A3?) crash, been analysed many a time, but didnt seem like a bike problem to most
Roczen's crash this year, lets face it one heck of a freak accident, cant blame the bike there either
Seely's crash this year, over jumped, plain and simple, cant blame the bike there
Gajser's crash, by his own admission he over jumped that one too

Perhaps the Factory Hondas are too powerful, over jumping stuff!! lol
Agree. You seem to be one of the few reasonable members on this forum. Some of the things I read on here are beyond believable...
TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/21/2018 7:30pm
3/21/2018 7:30pm
leighracer wrote:
Deathcross? So for the record, it's OK to use perjorative language that is mostly untrue (very few riders have actually died racing Supercross) but it's not...
Deathcross? So for the record, it's OK to use perjorative language that is mostly untrue (very few riders have actually died racing Supercross) but it's not OK so sling insults and one sentence retorts. TXDirt has apparently been appointed to the Internet Police Dept. Congrats Bro!
Yeah bro cause I’m just policing everything around here. What the hell are you even talking about. Whistling

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hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/21/2018 7:36pm
3/21/2018 7:36pm
Almost everything that makes his grip was busted or torn loose.

I was driving fence posts with one of those pipes with two handles that slides over the top of the metal post and the cheap China made brittle post snapped off.

The jagged point missed the driver as I came down and it went thru my hand. From pinky side thru my palm almost coming out at the webbing between my thumb and index finder.

It was months before I could grip. Took lots of therapeutic porn surfing to get my hand back in shape. Left a wicked scar though.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/21/2018 7:38pm
3/21/2018 7:38pm
TXDirt wrote:
I agree with you on the money to an extent. But look what Honda has paid out last year and obviously this year with BOTH riders...
I agree with you on the money to an extent. But look what Honda has paid out last year and obviously this year with BOTH riders being out with Deathcross injuries. And hell you don’t think the average fan might give a second thought to purchasing a Honda after seeing Honda’s top two and only riders get shit fucked on the bike?

So what was Hondas ROI? Well likely negative this year and last year. So I would think Honda brass atleast is considering how much Deathcross contributes to the bottom line vs outdoors, which is what their market base even participates in.

Appreciate your perspective and for not slinging insults and one sentence retorts.
kiwifan wrote:
A interesting point about the crashes and whether that does impact Honda's sales...I think when those crashes happened a lot of sales for that years models...
A interesting point about the crashes and whether that does impact Honda's sales...I think when those crashes happened a lot of sales for that years models were probably mostly done by then, but even then I doubt it would impact a prospective buyers choice, not as though I am seeing the same type of crashes at the races I attend, in fact the new models have actually seen more red up front rather than on the ground at the races I attend...that is more likely to attract sales then a professional SX (or MX1) rider crash.

I think the crashes in SX/MX1 also speak to rider error...and my own personal opinion...

Roczen's MEC crash, by his own admission he screwed that one up himself
Roczen's A2 (or was it A3?) crash, been analysed many a time, but didnt seem like a bike problem to most
Roczen's crash this year, lets face it one heck of a freak accident, cant blame the bike there either
Seely's crash this year, over jumped, plain and simple, cant blame the bike there
Gajser's crash, by his own admission he over jumped that one too

Perhaps the Factory Hondas are too powerful, over jumping stuff!! lol
Don’t disagree with you. I would venture to guess we are a lot more informed on the causes on these crashes. But to your average potential buyer perhaps it does have some effect. It’s possible it makes no difference in sales like you said. You can definitely bet Honda is crunching the ROI numbers though after two years of devesating injuries. Honda would have been far better completely skipping 2017 and 2018 Deathcross and focusing only on outdoors. They have spent millions and got nothing in return. And actually maybe had a negative return. I’m certain that hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Appreciate your perspective and all good food for thought.
Flip109
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Flip109 3/21/2018 7:48pm
3/21/2018 7:48pm
Nobody was bitching about deathcross in the 80’s and 90’s. Even most the 2000’s. It’s the bikes. Deathcross was not made for 60+ horsepower machines. The level of rider error has been cut to an inth of what it was in the 90’s. They are riding speed boats in a pond. Has nothing to do with supercross. It’s been around forever and been a good sport since the beginning. The last 5-10 years it has gotten crazy with injuries.
mxjon454
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mxjon454 3/21/2018 10:44pm
3/21/2018 10:44pm
H4L wrote:
He already proved the nay sayers wrong once. It looks like he has to do it again when he comes back for the MX series. Look...
He already proved the nay sayers wrong once. It looks like he has to do it again when he comes back for the MX series.
Look for KR94 to be a contender in the outdoors.
I dont think hes going to be up there with Tomacs speed outdoors. Now that Tomac has his first big bike outdoor title out of the way i think hes going to be a beast. I know hes still had a lot of dumb mistakes in supercross, but IMO i dont think many people are going to be able to beat him outdoors. I hope Roczen will be 100% come outdoors, and hopefullu Baggett will be too. I wonder how Barcia is going to do since he was really strong is supercross which he hasnt been in years. I cant wait for the great outdoors.
Harry Backmon 3/22/2018 2:50am
3/22/2018 2:50am
Been thinking of starting up a grind-metal band again. "Ken Roczen's Hand" might make for a name.
Jimfunn
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Jimfunn 3/22/2018 3:16am
3/22/2018 3:16am
newmann wrote:
The wife bought me a stainless Submariner datejust for our 15th anniversary. Been wearing it daily for the past 18 years beating it around the shop...
The wife bought me a stainless Submariner datejust for our 15th anniversary. Been wearing it daily for the past 18 years beating it around the shop. Best watch ever and still worth more than it cost originally. For our 30th she bought me a Daytona, it stays shiny in the safe most of the time. There may be a Milgauss Blue Z in there as well....such a great looking watch with the green crystal. Stainless, classic, not gaudy or flashy.

That's really nice & clean. Not quite on your guys level but i have a similar style Tag Calibre 5. Funny, first think i noticed was Kenny's watch too!
Prejump
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Prejump 3/22/2018 3:37am
3/22/2018 3:37am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2018 3:39am
8tensolutions wrote:
Sure.....because crashes never happen outdoors and riders never get injured. The whole argument is ridiculous. Motocross is dangerous and there have always been injuries. Some years...
Sure.....because crashes never happen outdoors and riders never get injured. The whole argument is ridiculous.

Motocross is dangerous and there have always been injuries. Some years are worse than others. The idea of slowing bikes down isn't going to help....riders get hurt all the time in 250's. It is not the power or the "big" jumps. They are generally getting hurt on smaller sections/whoops etc. How many guys got hurt on 125's? Happened all the time!

I think for Supercross the answer is slowing the tracks down. Have more walls and deep sections whether sand or really deep tilled sections. Tight bowl corners and big whoops with offset rhythm sections. Long straightaways with passing opportunities. With that said, would you enjoy it as much if there wasn't the quad in St. Louis? I know I loved watching the boys send it.

The only thing ridiculous here is not looking at the injury to track time factor.

SX is waay less track time to waay more injuries.

It's hardly surprising thou is it, the track are full of huge steep jumps. Great for fans but riders arnt robots & machines go wrong. Accidents will happen & when they do it's usually more punishing on a track of that style.

The obvious answer is to make the tracks lamer. But then you will find less passing & all riders can do it.

So it's a catch 22.

Personally I think SX is a fun novelty sport, but MX is where my passion lies & it's a shame SX takes priority. US greed mentality I guess.

Turbojez
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Turbojez 3/22/2018 4:50am
3/22/2018 4:50am
Harry Backmon wrote:
Been thinking of starting up a grind-metal band again. "Ken Roczen's Hand" might make for a name.
What was the previous one's name HarryBro? Smile
Harry Backmon 3/22/2018 5:36am
3/22/2018 5:36am
Harry Backmon wrote:
Been thinking of starting up a grind-metal band again. "Ken Roczen's Hand" might make for a name.
Turbojez wrote:
What was the previous one's name HarryBro? Smile
Stonewall Jackson's Arm.

Prior to that I drummed for a thrash-metal band called Fecal Remnants.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/22/2018 6:03am
3/22/2018 6:03am
Harry Backmon wrote:
Been thinking of starting up a grind-metal band again. "Ken Roczen's Hand" might make for a name.
Turbojez wrote:
What was the previous one's name HarryBro? Smile
BaldyLocks or
Michael Jackson’s other Glove, I can’t remember
BobPA
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BobPA 3/22/2018 6:07am
3/22/2018 6:07am
Was not aware we had so many watch connaseurs on vital...
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/22/2018 6:18am
3/22/2018 6:18am
BobPA wrote:
Was not aware we had so many watch connaseurs on vital...


kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/22/2018 6:19am
3/22/2018 6:19am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2018 12:11pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
Been thinking of starting up a grind-metal band again. "Ken Roczen's Hand" might make for a name.
Turbojez wrote:
What was the previous one's name HarryBro? Smile
Harry Backmon wrote:
Stonewall Jackson's Arm.

Prior to that I drummed for a thrash-metal band called Fecal Remnants.
Kat Knap?
Kat Knip?
Mommas Milk?
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Spydee 3/22/2018 6:20am
3/22/2018 6:20am
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.

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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/22/2018 6:26am
3/22/2018 6:26am
Spydee wrote:
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average." Seems that "Suicidecross" is available...
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.
Yes suicidecross is more fitting!
TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/22/2018 6:27am
3/22/2018 6:27am
Spydee wrote:
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average." Seems that "Suicidecross" is available...
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yes suicidecross is more fitting!
Clearly the reaper is not a fan of the outdoors!!



kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 3/22/2018 6:29am
3/22/2018 6:29am
Spydee wrote:
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average." Seems that "Suicidecross" is available...
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yes suicidecross is more fitting!
TXDirt wrote:
Clearly the reaper is not a fan of the outdoors!! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/22/251209/s1200_Is_Bitcoin_Headed_for_a_Death_Cross_Banner_810x313.jpg[/img]
Clearly the reaper is not a fan of the outdoors!!



The Grimm Reaper loves the Outdoors! Smile
tingo
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tingo 3/22/2018 8:55am
3/22/2018 8:55am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2018 9:03am
Spydee wrote:
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average." Seems that "Suicidecross" is available...
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.
I don't know man, as stupid as it is reading all these hyperbolic comments repeatedly calling Supercross "Deathcross", that definition is pretty much exactly what happened to KR's SX season and Monster Cup race.

You know what I bet most of the pros call Supercross? Opportunity.
Care to guess what Chad Reed recently called it (in so many words) as compared to motocross? Fun.

You (and I don't mean you Spydee) don't know what's best for these guys (not to mention what they WANT to do) and I imagine they are all smart enough to know that they can go race the GPs (or Canada, or anywhere else) if they so desired.
theinternetkid 3/22/2018 11:53am
3/22/2018 11:53am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2018 11:54am
Spydee wrote:
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average." Seems that "Suicidecross" is available...
"A death cross is a technical indicator that occurs when a stock's short-term moving average falls below its long-term moving average."

Seems that "Suicidecross" is available though if that's of any help.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yes suicidecross is more fitting!
I think injurycross would be the most accurate. Doesn’t have the same ring to it though
mxpro252
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mxpro252 3/22/2018 12:19pm
3/22/2018 12:19pm
theinternetkid wrote:
I think injurycross would be the most accurate. Doesn’t have the same ring to it though
Dangercross?
oldblood
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oldblood 3/22/2018 1:26pm
3/22/2018 1:26pm
any jackass can say that Ken shouldn't have raced Supercross at this point.
without the lame and bizarre incident with web Ken would likely be in the top three of the series and possibly leading the series as Anderson had to ride way over his head to catch and pass Kenny
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kiwifan 3/22/2018 2:11pm
3/22/2018 2:11pm
TXDirt wrote:
Don’t disagree with you. I would venture to guess we are a lot more informed on the causes on these crashes. But to your average potential...
Don’t disagree with you. I would venture to guess we are a lot more informed on the causes on these crashes. But to your average potential buyer perhaps it does have some effect. It’s possible it makes no difference in sales like you said. You can definitely bet Honda is crunching the ROI numbers though after two years of devesating injuries. Honda would have been far better completely skipping 2017 and 2018 Deathcross and focusing only on outdoors. They have spent millions and got nothing in return. And actually maybe had a negative return. I’m certain that hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Appreciate your perspective and all good food for thought.
No worries, Honda pulling out of SX to focus on outdoors would be huge in my view and I wonder if that would have a follow on effect on other brands.

I dont think anyone would want to see them pull out (except those who dont like them) injured riders or not. I think its massive that they still field riders despite their contracted ones being injured.

to be sure I dont think any manufacturer gets ROI from racing, unless they get big bucks major sponsorship (ala KTM - Redbull, Husky - Rockstar, Kawasaki - Monster) ...Honda doesnt have a major sponsor (mind you nor does Yamaha now?). so they are mostly (obviously got other smaller sponsors) footing the bill themselves.
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BMSOBx2 3/22/2018 4:29pm
3/22/2018 4:29pm
oldblood wrote:
any jackass can say that Ken shouldn't have raced Supercross at this point. without the lame and bizarre incident with web Ken would likely be in...
any jackass can say that Ken shouldn't have raced Supercross at this point.
without the lame and bizarre incident with web Ken would likely be in the top three of the series and possibly leading the series as Anderson had to ride way over his head to catch and pass Kenny
Call me a jackass then. Coulda Woulda Shoulda. If you go back and look at the races you could tell he was favoring that arm and didn't have the strength in it. He was better at the start of the season but as it wore on he got weaker and weaker. There were several instances where he nearly got off and and you could see him dialing it back every time that happened. In my opinion he never should have raced Supercross this year. Can't blame Webb but that's what happens in SX sometimes you have to dice and cut and thrust and he was clearly avoiding that, or trying to through the whole season right up until the moment that his ex girlfriend's new squeeze was beating him. It's a damn shame.
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JM485 3/22/2018 4:33pm
3/22/2018 4:33pm
oldblood wrote:
any jackass can say that Ken shouldn't have raced Supercross at this point. without the lame and bizarre incident with web Ken would likely be in...
any jackass can say that Ken shouldn't have raced Supercross at this point.
without the lame and bizarre incident with web Ken would likely be in the top three of the series and possibly leading the series as Anderson had to ride way over his head to catch and pass Kenny
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Call me a jackass then. Coulda Woulda Shoulda. If you go back and look at the races you could tell he was favoring that arm and...
Call me a jackass then. Coulda Woulda Shoulda. If you go back and look at the races you could tell he was favoring that arm and didn't have the strength in it. He was better at the start of the season but as it wore on he got weaker and weaker. There were several instances where he nearly got off and and you could see him dialing it back every time that happened. In my opinion he never should have raced Supercross this year. Can't blame Webb but that's what happens in SX sometimes you have to dice and cut and thrust and he was clearly avoiding that, or trying to through the whole season right up until the moment that his ex girlfriend's new squeeze was beating him. It's a damn shame.
What are you talking about? He was pretty damn consistent throughout the year, and just before he had a freak crash he damn near won a race! He was only getting stronger if anything, and had he not gone out he would damn sure be right up there in the mix right now, that's not even a question.
oldblood
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oldblood 3/22/2018 4:49pm
3/22/2018 4:49pm
You'd be surprised how many top pros are riding gimpy, barely hanging on at times. We never hear about it.
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BMSOBx2 3/22/2018 4:55pm
3/22/2018 4:55pm
JM485 wrote:
What are you talking about? He was pretty damn consistent throughout the year, and just before he had a freak crash he damn near won a...
What are you talking about? He was pretty damn consistent throughout the year, and just before he had a freak crash he damn near won a race! He was only getting stronger if anything, and had he not gone out he would damn sure be right up there in the mix right now, that's not even a question.
I disagree. I'm not a Roczen and hater. There was a brief period where he was the best in the world. I watched him lay the wood on the best in the world at the mxdn in Lakewood on a 250 and there was no doubt that he was special. Freak crash? Call it what you will. He damn near won a race because everybody else f***** up not because he was special, and he was special before. As I said before it's a damn shame it came to that but he could have saved himself and his career if he had just laid back. The way this season has gone if he had waited till halfway through the season he could have been in the mix just like Muscan and Tomac.

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