Safety idea about triple jumps.

lumpy790
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2/16/2018 10:45am
Every time I see a rider land on a tough block is another safer landing than slamming into the ground.

I remember JS7 slamming down on a tough block at Daytona and that 1 tough block saved his year because without it he would have been out for the year.

And that happens to a rider every week.
Roostermx58
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2/16/2018 11:05am
I would like to see some actual data on how effective tuff blocks really are because I'm not sure I agree that they save more than...
I would like to see some actual data on how effective tuff blocks really are because I'm not sure I agree that they save more than they cause.

I agree that some of their purpose is to knock down a bike that is out of control. If they were really just a safety device shouldn't they be bigger? I think there are better ways and don't fall for the they are better than hay bales or wood stakes argument to not progress.
wsc96
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2/16/2018 12:57pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2018 1:25am
Having a rider double a triple and then veer across the lane to reach a “safe” exit doesn’t sound great. First lap there is often 4 bikes abreast.
Johnny Depp
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2/16/2018 2:29pm
I would like to see some actual data on how effective tuff blocks really are because I'm not sure I agree that they save more than...
I would like to see some actual data on how effective tuff blocks really are because I'm not sure I agree that they save more than they cause.

I agree that some of their purpose is to knock down a bike that is out of control. If they were really just a safety device shouldn't they be bigger? I think there are better ways and don't fall for the they are better than hay bales or wood stakes argument to not progress.
I would like to see that cartwheel into one of the famed nets.



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JW381
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2/16/2018 3:37pm
JBone thought it was a great idea
Motofinne
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2/18/2018 6:01am


KennyT
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Fantasy
2/18/2018 6:07am Edited Date/Time 2/18/2018 6:08am
I wish track builders understood that the most boring part of the race is when the riders r floating through the air pulling a rear off. The real racing is on the ground when they have traction. Of course MX needs jumps, but the airtime could definitely be cut way back

BTW I think your idea is great Matti
kaptkaos
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2/20/2018 7:28pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2018 7:34pm
Make each triple a single to table....
Thats fucking brilliant!

Amazing how simple the best answer was!

I would also not put a triple within a half lap of the start. Tough blocks arent going anywhere, and technically a rider can just plow into it to escape, but they wont.
Question
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2/21/2018 1:20am
Actually where Barcia crashed, the tuf blox were removed (I think for the first time) on the landing of the triple. Barcia did not notice it since it is new, but I think it was very positive to see the track safer, tracks that are btw pretty exciting and creative this year.

It may overestimate the power of the site since this evolution is probably be the result from multiple requests and people, but I still think some big props can be given to Vitalmx, where I think the idea came from, but also in term of readers quality and impact (another example is on chest protectors, we can see much more of that since a few races).
Prejump
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2/21/2018 3:49am

On the opening lap, why not have a couple flaggers waving & implement a rule where every rider rolls the triple opening lap?

Might loose a bit of the spectacle, but less injured riders will add the the racing throughout the season.
2/21/2018 5:00am
Prejump wrote:
On the opening lap, why not have a couple flaggers waving & implement a rule where every rider rolls the triple opening lap? Might loose a...

On the opening lap, why not have a couple flaggers waving & implement a rule where every rider rolls the triple opening lap?

Might loose a bit of the spectacle, but less injured riders will add the the racing throughout the season.
Nah.

Flags that make racers race less hard should always be an unfortunate happenstance, not the standard of the sport.

Heavy traffic through the first rhythm can definitely be solved through track design.
danman
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2/21/2018 6:23am
I honestly don't think removing tough blocks or doing the single/table will work. You will still have issues with people cutting across the track, whether to get a better line for the next corner or to exit the track.
I think the best solution would be to either change the track design so there aren't any triples in the first half lap, eliminate triples(not going to happen), or just mandate no triples for either the first lap or part of the first lap.

2/21/2018 7:18am
Just prohibit doing the triples on the first lap. Easy to implement, requires no track changes or additional room between the lanes. I said this back when Trey got landed on and 2 others have been landed on since. Just a matter of time before someone is landed on directly on their head with permanent damage.

I had a similar idea initially as the OP, but you get two problems. 1. loss of protection from the tuff blocks being removed and 2. If someone doubles and has to turn in between jumps, he might get hit by the next guy also doubling. It would only work if everyone behind him still tripled.
Zaugg
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2/21/2018 7:36am

Based on the logic in this forum, we should ban passing because it could result in a riders hand getting lodged between another rider's swingarm and tire.



2/21/2018 7:49am
Why the negativity Zaugg?

Look, I'll just say this, I don't care what changes get made as long as they make things safer for the riders. Many fans say "don't change it" because it will somehow violate the sanctity of what is supercross or something. This is nonsense.

I consider myself a real fan, and I hate seeing riders getting injured far more than I enjoy watching them clear yet another triple. I am willing to give up some of the spectating excitement in exchange for safety. And the thing is, it's not like we have to get rid of all jumps. I don't expect everyone to race in sumo suits to avoid any possibility of injury. But there are some basic things that have been showed to cause repeat injuries, and people getting landed on over triples continues to come up. So let's address that one area.
Prejump
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2/21/2018 10:30am
Nah. Flags that make racers race less hard should always be an unfortunate happenstance, not the standard of the sport. Heavy traffic through the first rhythm...
Nah.

Flags that make racers race less hard should always be an unfortunate happenstance, not the standard of the sport.

Heavy traffic through the first rhythm can definitely be solved through track design.
This could be a new flag, Im not suggesting the racers cant pass or ride 100%, just 3 hard scrubs instead of jumping the triple.

It's not ideal I know, but IMO it's a shame to change the triple jumps because of whats predominately a first lap issue.

Jeff alessi
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2/21/2018 12:17pm
I think the concept of a triple needs to either change or they need to find a way to cut it out first lap. Easiest solution is make 1 triple only and have them at the end of the lap. Although filling in the gap is a good idea, for a fans perpective it’s not pro level jumps. The problem is that when you only double the consequence is two fold, you waist so much escape time having to go into the cavity and then at the worst moment your coming the worst direction toward the danger. This is why a triple on lap 1 should be a no, or rules if someone in front of you doesn’t triple and you have ample time to back off YOU BACK OFF!

On a side note, I’ve never been landed on until the absolute last lap of the last race I ever did when Colton aeck and I almost killed each other, he like many gave me a warning rev as went up the landing, regardless of who was behind me I didn’t care I grabbed both brakes n stopped right before the tip of the landing top n he clipped my helmet n shoulder, I finished that lap n said I was done. N a few days later I thought to myself get over it n go to Dallas, decided not to. It was unfortunate because after all that, in Dallas Colton had a simalar experience n did not stop and got landed on. If you hear a panic rev because you have not tripled get to n edge n STOP before you reach the top! U won’t get landed on, take the loss of positions. We get so caught up in not losing time but when it costs guys like Barcia a title opportunity or other guys their career you tell me what your willing to risk. Just stop when u hear that rev because u don’t no where their coming down n more then likely everyone behind that has seen where it’s going and backed off. After bogles incident I wanted to post this experience of mine and I didn’t which bummed me out after the Barcia deal. U have to stop, the guys behind u WILL avoid you.

nealb129
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2/21/2018 1:16pm
Nah. Flags that make racers race less hard should always be an unfortunate happenstance, not the standard of the sport. Heavy traffic through the first rhythm...
Nah.

Flags that make racers race less hard should always be an unfortunate happenstance, not the standard of the sport.

Heavy traffic through the first rhythm can definitely be solved through track design.
Prejump wrote:
This could be a new flag, Im not suggesting the racers cant pass or ride 100%, just 3 hard scrubs instead of jumping the triple. It's...
This could be a new flag, Im not suggesting the racers cant pass or ride 100%, just 3 hard scrubs instead of jumping the triple.

It's not ideal I know, but IMO it's a shame to change the triple jumps because of whats predominately a first lap issue.

That’s what I want to see, 3 or 4 wide and guys scrubbing!!!
Johnny Depp
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2/21/2018 1:39pm
I think the concept of a triple needs to either change or they need to find a way to cut it out first lap. Easiest solution...
I think the concept of a triple needs to either change or they need to find a way to cut it out first lap. Easiest solution is make 1 triple only and have them at the end of the lap. Although filling in the gap is a good idea, for a fans perpective it’s not pro level jumps. The problem is that when you only double the consequence is two fold, you waist so much escape time having to go into the cavity and then at the worst moment your coming the worst direction toward the danger. This is why a triple on lap 1 should be a no, or rules if someone in front of you doesn’t triple and you have ample time to back off YOU BACK OFF!

On a side note, I’ve never been landed on until the absolute last lap of the last race I ever did when Colton aeck and I almost killed each other, he like many gave me a warning rev as went up the landing, regardless of who was behind me I didn’t care I grabbed both brakes n stopped right before the tip of the landing top n he clipped my helmet n shoulder, I finished that lap n said I was done. N a few days later I thought to myself get over it n go to Dallas, decided not to. It was unfortunate because after all that, in Dallas Colton had a simalar experience n did not stop and got landed on. If you hear a panic rev because you have not tripled get to n edge n STOP before you reach the top! U won’t get landed on, take the loss of positions. We get so caught up in not losing time but when it costs guys like Barcia a title opportunity or other guys their career you tell me what your willing to risk. Just stop when u hear that rev because u don’t no where their coming down n more then likely everyone behind that has seen where it’s going and backed off. After bogles incident I wanted to post this experience of mine and I didn’t which bummed me out after the Barcia deal. U have to stop, the guys behind u WILL avoid you.

Thanks for the 1st hand feedback. It's pretty common sense, if you don't launch the triple, stay out of the way for those that were already committed.
MXMattii
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2/21/2018 2:47pm
I think the concept of a triple needs to either change or they need to find a way to cut it out first lap. Easiest solution...
I think the concept of a triple needs to either change or they need to find a way to cut it out first lap. Easiest solution is make 1 triple only and have them at the end of the lap. Although filling in the gap is a good idea, for a fans perpective it’s not pro level jumps. The problem is that when you only double the consequence is two fold, you waist so much escape time having to go into the cavity and then at the worst moment your coming the worst direction toward the danger. This is why a triple on lap 1 should be a no, or rules if someone in front of you doesn’t triple and you have ample time to back off YOU BACK OFF!

On a side note, I’ve never been landed on until the absolute last lap of the last race I ever did when Colton aeck and I almost killed each other, he like many gave me a warning rev as went up the landing, regardless of who was behind me I didn’t care I grabbed both brakes n stopped right before the tip of the landing top n he clipped my helmet n shoulder, I finished that lap n said I was done. N a few days later I thought to myself get over it n go to Dallas, decided not to. It was unfortunate because after all that, in Dallas Colton had a simalar experience n did not stop and got landed on. If you hear a panic rev because you have not tripled get to n edge n STOP before you reach the top! U won’t get landed on, take the loss of positions. We get so caught up in not losing time but when it costs guys like Barcia a title opportunity or other guys their career you tell me what your willing to risk. Just stop when u hear that rev because u don’t no where their coming down n more then likely everyone behind that has seen where it’s going and backed off. After bogles incident I wanted to post this experience of mine and I didn’t which bummed me out after the Barcia deal. U have to stop, the guys behind u WILL avoid you.

Beside this topic about safety idea, I also made a topic about the need of triples. Do we need a jump that everyone can jump with ease? If a 250 takes the inside lane, pins it and jumps it we can't talk about a obstacle anymore. The triple became from a difficult obstacle in the 125cc/250cc 2stroke days to a show element that is pretty dangerous, because there is no other rhythm them just pin it and land it. If you take a other rhythm someone will land on top of you.

Then FMX-To-Dirt landing like in the McGrath invitational were safer, because you had plenty of landing room and you had also plenty of room to go around the FMX ramp and dirt landing to enter the track safe. Something like that can be entered with ease because, the triple jump is nothing more then a show element.
2/24/2018 12:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/24/2018 12:33pm
My computer files tell me I made this image in Aug. 2014.



(Always meant to start a thread. With these recent accidents I figured no better time than now, but first I thought I'd check recent topics.)

The escape route, in yellow, was my first thought. If doubling riders don't use the safety line, they get docked 3 positions. Easy. There's not much room where I drew it, so either design tracks with room, or always have triples on outside lanes (closest to the stands) so you have all the room you need. My second thought was the same idea but without leaving the lane (in red). There's 2 feet or so of the jump's width designated as a safety lane, MARKED so riders can see quickly where to go. (It might be on the right or left depending on which side of the landing tripling riders are naturally being carried to.) If doubling riders don't get into the lane while rolling a jump, they get docked 3 positions.

Now, if I've had the idea, and you've had the idea, and Justin Barcia's had the idea, what does that make the idea?

A no-brainer. Do you hear that, Official Sanctioning Bodies? To potentially save the careers and bodily mobility of your riders, it would take hardly any thought at all. What else are you guys doing, exactly? Take the guesswork out of a dangerous situation. Missing a triple doesn't have to be life or death.
2/24/2018 12:29pm
wsc96 wrote:
Having a rider double a triple and then veer across the lane to reach a “safe” exit doesn’t sound great. First lap there is often 4...
Having a rider double a triple and then veer across the lane to reach a “safe” exit doesn’t sound great. First lap there is often 4 bikes abreast.
Doubling a triple is a mistake. Four riders abreast aren’t all going to make the same mistake and have to funnel into the same spot. Yes, sometimes multiple riders will see a rider double in front of them and decide to double too, but if they know the rider used a safety route and has no chance of being in the way, they won’t have to double.
wsc96
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2/24/2018 2:12pm
I just don’t see it working as well in practice as it sounds on paper. Riders that double to the left may need to exit on the right and vice versa and with a mix of riders doubling and tripling around and over them. If all riders were required to double on the first lap only then I think this might work from a safety perspective.

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