How are KTMs so light?

mx317
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mx317 1/18/2018 6:15am
1/18/2018 6:15am
Alex Ray rode a Husky for awhile before he got his current ride with the Yamaha team. He had less issues with that bike than others he rode. We lost count of how many Honda transmissions he went through. Any bike will break, it's a fact. I've seen them all break at some point.
Squirrelings 1/18/2018 6:17am
1/18/2018 6:17am
mx317 wrote:
Alex Ray rode a Husky for awhile before he got his current ride with the Yamaha team. He had less issues with that bike than others...
Alex Ray rode a Husky for awhile before he got his current ride with the Yamaha team. He had less issues with that bike than others he rode. We lost count of how many Honda transmissions he went through. Any bike will break, it's a fact. I've seen them all break at some point.
He mentioned how the sub frames broke repeatedly without crashing! Just from regular use and seat bouncing. Super durable.
c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 1/18/2018 6:18am
1/18/2018 6:18am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 6:19am
c0ncEpT wrote:
The plastics are held on with legit wood screws with 6mm heads on them.
MX915 wrote:
Not for nothing, but you do realize that those are screws specifically designed for fastening directly to plastic, no?

https://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/images/Brochure_EJOT_PT_02.11_en.pdf
I understand. I own a 2018 350SXF. That doesn't take away from fact they look like wood screws. As a guy that came from Jap bikes my whole life its a huge change.

I don't quite sip the same koolaid as you. I don't think these Austrian bikes are a gift from god like "KTM guys" make them out to be.

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MX915
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MX915 1/18/2018 6:20am
1/18/2018 6:20am
MX915 wrote:
Not for nothing, but you do realize that those are screws specifically designed for fastening directly to plastic, no?

https://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/images/Brochure_EJOT_PT_02.11_en.pdf
Squirrelings wrote:
It's janky no matter what they were designed for.
Does the job just fine though.
MX915
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MX915 1/18/2018 6:21am
1/18/2018 6:21am
c0ncEpT wrote:
The plastics are held on with legit wood screws with 6mm heads on them.
MX915 wrote:
Not for nothing, but you do realize that those are screws specifically designed for fastening directly to plastic, no?

https://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/images/Brochure_EJOT_PT_02.11_en.pdf
c0ncEpT wrote:
I understand. I own a 2018 350SXF. That doesn't take away from fact they look like wood screws. As a guy that came from Jap bikes...
I understand. I own a 2018 350SXF. That doesn't take away from fact they look like wood screws. As a guy that came from Jap bikes my whole life its a huge change.

I don't quite sip the same koolaid as you. I don't think these Austrian bikes are a gift from god like "KTM guys" make them out to be.
Whoever said I was a KTM guy? Facts are facts.
Squirrelings 1/18/2018 6:33am
1/18/2018 6:33am
MX915 wrote:
Does the job just fine though.
Still janky. To each their own man.
Panic_Rev
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Panic_Rev 1/18/2018 6:36am
1/18/2018 6:36am
c0ncEpT wrote:
I understand. I own a 2018 350SXF. That doesn't take away from fact they look like wood screws. As a guy that came from Jap bikes...
I understand. I own a 2018 350SXF. That doesn't take away from fact they look like wood screws. As a guy that came from Jap bikes my whole life its a huge change.

I don't quite sip the same koolaid as you. I don't think these Austrian bikes are a gift from god like "KTM guys" make them out to be.
Let's chat about that 18 KTM. I'm on a 15 350 now with low hours so my plan is to ride it through the year, or halfway, then pick up an 18 if they are still around or grab a 19. Or potentially move back to Yamaha and own my first 450.

What is your take on the 18?
MX915
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MX915 1/18/2018 6:39am
1/18/2018 6:39am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 6:39am
MX915 wrote:
Does the job just fine though.
Squirrelings wrote:
Still janky. To each their own man.
Its all good man. I think all bikes have their quirks. If they were perfect there wouldn't be a need for the internet, and the endless supply of experts that come with it. Tongue
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seth505 1/18/2018 6:51am
1/18/2018 6:51am
MX915 wrote:
Does the job just fine though.
Squirrelings wrote:
Still janky. To each their own man.
Explain how it's janky when it works perfectly for what it was designed to do. Is it the different coarse threads that you have an issue with? The threads you don't see unless you remove the fastener? Interesting statement to me unless you are just looking for reasons to be anti-KTM.
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seth505 1/18/2018 6:53am
1/18/2018 6:53am
These threads are great for rehashed garbage. Also, it's interesting to me how if you own a KTM then you are seen by people who don't ride on this site as "drinking the koolaid". Some of us aren't "KTM guys", we just currently buy the best bike for the job, which might be a KTM.
Squirrelings 1/18/2018 6:58am
1/18/2018 6:58am
MX915 wrote:
Does the job just fine though.
Squirrelings wrote:
Still janky. To each their own man.
seth505 wrote:
Explain how it's janky when it works perfectly for what it was designed to do. Is it the different coarse threads that you have an issue...
Explain how it's janky when it works perfectly for what it was designed to do. Is it the different coarse threads that you have an issue with? The threads you don't see unless you remove the fastener? Interesting statement to me unless you are just looking for reasons to be anti-KTM.
I find it janky that you are threading the bolt into plastic at all. Nothing to do with the fastener itself necessarily. Not how I'd prefer my motorcycle be held together, but if it's cool for you, awesome.
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H4L 1/18/2018 7:03am
1/18/2018 7:03am
Have ridden a 17 1/2 KTM450 SXF FE & an 18 CRF450r. There is a difference in weight on the scales, but the Honda doesn't feel heavier while in motion. The Honda engineers did a very good job of centralizing the weight distribution.
c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 1/18/2018 7:05am
1/18/2018 7:05am
Panic_Rev wrote:
Let's chat about that 18 KTM. I'm on a 15 350 now with low hours so my plan is to ride it through the year, or...
Let's chat about that 18 KTM. I'm on a 15 350 now with low hours so my plan is to ride it through the year, or halfway, then pick up an 18 if they are still around or grab a 19. Or potentially move back to Yamaha and own my first 450.

What is your take on the 18?
I'll have to report back later on this one.

Bike only has 4 hours on it and we're in the dead of winter. Seems good so far. Has a ton of power, turns well, and the AER is very good in stock form.

It feels a lot different than the 2016 YZ250F I came off of. That bike was the best one I've ever owned so this 350 has a lot to live up to in my eyes.
jj welks
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jj welks 1/18/2018 7:06am
1/18/2018 7:06am
I didn't realize the plastic on a dirt bike was what holds it together
seth505
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seth505 1/18/2018 7:09am
1/18/2018 7:09am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 7:09am
Squirrelings wrote:
Still janky. To each their own man.
seth505 wrote:
Explain how it's janky when it works perfectly for what it was designed to do. Is it the different coarse threads that you have an issue...
Explain how it's janky when it works perfectly for what it was designed to do. Is it the different coarse threads that you have an issue with? The threads you don't see unless you remove the fastener? Interesting statement to me unless you are just looking for reasons to be anti-KTM.
Squirrelings wrote:
I find it janky that you are threading the bolt into plastic at all. Nothing to do with the fastener itself necessarily. Not how I'd prefer...
I find it janky that you are threading the bolt into plastic at all. Nothing to do with the fastener itself necessarily. Not how I'd prefer my motorcycle be held together, but if it's cool for you, awesome.
I could see having trouble with it if someone wrenched on it with way too much torque but they never come out even when put in with low (proper) torque. Same issue with other bikes that have tanks and parts that have the metal insert in the plastic, people cross thread or over torque and the thing is f-ed.
Squirrelings 1/18/2018 7:14am
1/18/2018 7:14am
jj welks wrote:
I didn't realize the plastic on a dirt bike was what holds it together
I bet there's a lot of things you don't realize.
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drt410 1/18/2018 7:31am
1/18/2018 7:31am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 7:39am
Yea the single cam does shave some pounds off too compared to the yzf kxf and rmz. Thats a couple pounds right there plus less reciprocating mass. This helps the honda along with mass centralization to feel lighter than it is. I can see the yzf using dual cams on the 450 with the ram air they can really dial the power there but I dont think the others really need it on their 450. The bikes are so powerful its just added weight reciprocating mass and complexity. On the 250 it is necessary to squeeze every hp out of that little screamer that you can, glad honda went dohc. I think suzuki needs to go sohc on the 450 to separate themselves from the pack and drop some weight, they need a major overhaul more than the rest. Less reciprocating mass and weight along with that wonderful chassis would be a great bike. Plus when they go elec start its only going to get heavier.

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mx317
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mx317 1/18/2018 7:35am
1/18/2018 7:35am
mx317 wrote:
Alex Ray rode a Husky for awhile before he got his current ride with the Yamaha team. He had less issues with that bike than others...
Alex Ray rode a Husky for awhile before he got his current ride with the Yamaha team. He had less issues with that bike than others he rode. We lost count of how many Honda transmissions he went through. Any bike will break, it's a fact. I've seen them all break at some point.
Squirrelings wrote:
He mentioned how the sub frames broke repeatedly without crashing! Just from regular use and seat bouncing. Super durable.
He DNF while leading a LCQ on a Honda from a broken subframe also! I would say he is very hard on subframes. The new Huskys have a different subframe by the way than what he was riding on.
peelout
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peelout 1/18/2018 7:57am
1/18/2018 7:57am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 7:57am
or maybe KTM has been leading the way in R&D of both 2-strokes and 4-strokes for quite some time now, and the only people that don't recognize it live under a rock and dream of the days when trucks were started with a hand-crank, bikes had a metal tank, and motocross tracks were lined with wooden stakes
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Moto_Geek 1/18/2018 8:07am
1/18/2018 8:07am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 8:08am
David934 wrote:
Hmm, no broken frames pictures??
MX915 wrote:
Here you go. That should get the troops riled up. :laugh: [img]https://motocrossactionmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/BROKEN-2015-YZ450F-FRAME.jpg[/img]
Here you go. That should get the troops riled up. Laughing



Nice sharpy marker.. fake.. Looks like your KTM friends are duping you to get a KTM..

MX915
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MX915 1/18/2018 8:23am
1/18/2018 8:23am
Moto_Geek wrote:
Nice sharpy marker.. fake.. Looks like your KTM friends are duping you to get a KTM.. [img]https://smedia.webcollage.net/rwvfp/wc/cp/25256806/module/sharpieus/_cp/products/1502381873042/tab-329fc35f-2930-4d7b-a292-5f5ac3962584/3aea80f4-0bbf-41e5-a331-9a7e58b47f5a.jpeg.w480.jpg[/img]
Nice sharpy marker.. fake.. Looks like your KTM friends are duping you to get a KTM..

How's this? Laughing




mx317
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mx317 1/18/2018 8:26am
1/18/2018 8:26am

No Sharpie here
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 1/18/2018 8:39am
1/18/2018 8:39am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2018 8:47am
Moto_Geek wrote:
Nice sharpy marker.. fake.. Looks like your KTM friends are duping you to get a KTM.. [img]https://smedia.webcollage.net/rwvfp/wc/cp/25256806/module/sharpieus/_cp/products/1502381873042/tab-329fc35f-2930-4d7b-a292-5f5ac3962584/3aea80f4-0bbf-41e5-a331-9a7e58b47f5a.jpeg.w480.jpg[/img]
Nice sharpy marker.. fake.. Looks like your KTM friends are duping you to get a KTM..

MX915 wrote:
How's this? :laugh: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/01/18/238777/s1200_YZ250_split1.jpg[/img]
How's this? Laughing




That's a racing lawn mower frame.. Common... I can see the distinct John Deere forged emblem in the frame during manufacturing. I google john deere racing framed cracked in google images and it was the first hit. nice try.

Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 1/18/2018 8:41am
1/18/2018 8:41am
mx317 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/01/18/238779/s1200_image.jpg[/img] No Sharpie here

No Sharpie here
Need to adjust your front suspension, obvious the front tire is rubbing on your framing when turning right.
mx317
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mx317 1/18/2018 8:43am
1/18/2018 8:43am
Moto_Geek wrote:
Need to adjust your front suspension, obvious the front tire is rubbing on your framing when turning right.
I'll bet that's it!
MX915
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MX915 1/18/2018 8:47am
1/18/2018 8:47am
Moto_Geek wrote:
That's a racing lawn mower frame.. Common... I can see the distinct John Deere forged emblem in the frame during manufacturing. I google john deere racing...
That's a racing lawn mower frame.. Common... I can see the distinct John Deere forged emblem in the frame during manufacturing. I google john deere racing framed cracked in google images and it was the first hit. nice try.

You got me. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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HenryA 1/18/2018 9:23am
1/18/2018 9:23am
Brent wrote:
It's not that the KTMs are light, it's that the Japanese bikes are so damn heavy. 1/8 of a ton for a RMZ 450? are you...
It's not that the KTMs are light, it's that the Japanese bikes are so damn heavy.

1/8 of a ton for a RMZ 450? are you kidding me? Are they filling those aluminum frames with lead?

As an old fart, I appreciate being able to easily throw my KTM onto a real bike stand after a moto like I used to with my old 250 two stroke, as opposed to having to use one of those pussy step on jack stands.Tongue
Probably lead lol, but yeah that's what happen when you don't develop your bike for 10+ years.
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peelout 1/18/2018 9:28am
1/18/2018 9:28am
Brent wrote:
It's not that the KTMs are light, it's that the Japanese bikes are so damn heavy. 1/8 of a ton for a RMZ 450? are you...
It's not that the KTMs are light, it's that the Japanese bikes are so damn heavy.

1/8 of a ton for a RMZ 450? are you kidding me? Are they filling those aluminum frames with lead?

As an old fart, I appreciate being able to easily throw my KTM onto a real bike stand after a moto like I used to with my old 250 two stroke, as opposed to having to use one of those pussy step on jack stands.Tongue
HenryA wrote:
Probably lead lol, but yeah that's what happen when you don't develop your bike for 10+ years.
the BNG's are getting lighter though...
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captmoto 1/18/2018 9:44am
1/18/2018 9:44am
MX915 wrote:
Not for nothing, but you do realize that those are screws specifically designed for fastening directly to plastic, no?

https://apexfasteners.com/fasteners/images/Brochure_EJOT_PT_02.11_en.pdf
Squirrelings wrote:
It's janky no matter what they were designed for.
Why, if it works? You just cant be as ham fisted as with a Japanese bike.

Side panel attachment save a few ounces

Narrow frame, to the point that you need to remove the shock to remove the pipe. There has got to be a few ounces there too.
How did they get so light with the e-start? They hydro clutch is heavier too. I think the Japanese are just set in tradition. I'm surprised they haven't responded yet.

It's funny, people want trick, light, factory like bikes and when they are available, people piss and moan about it.

As far as frames breaking, where do they break?

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