Starting gate change proposal

resetjet
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resetjet 9/5/2017 5:37pm
9/5/2017 5:37pm
2 or 3 mains and no qualifying in the night show.......You get 2 or 3 shots at a good start.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 9/5/2017 5:39pm
9/5/2017 5:39pm
yz133rider wrote:
How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race? When the top...
How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race?

When the top guys all start together how awesome and rare is that?! It's like wow here we go it's on.

Why not take a look at the starting gate.

Right now if you qualify first or last the only difference is where on the gate you get to pick. Last place guys still have nearly the same chance of a Hole shot despite qualifying last.

I say make the gate diagonal. First place pick is on the inside, second place is one over and six inches back, and each position is six inches behind the next.

This would to my eye give a more distinct advantage to the better qualifying spots, allowing the top guys to all start together and thus less races getting wrecked before the second turn.

Also we should consider black flagging lappers after maybe 2+ laps down, or having a 106% rule like f1 did. The Lappers are downright dangerous and confusing trying to figure out positioning on the race track for many viewers.
Drawing straws or drawing a number is the fairest way to do it.
downard254
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downard254 9/5/2017 7:06pm
9/5/2017 7:06pm
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
friday10
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friday10 9/5/2017 7:25pm
9/5/2017 7:25pm
OMG, the crap people come up with!

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kzizok
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kzizok 9/6/2017 1:42am
9/6/2017 1:42am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2017 1:48am
yz133rider wrote:
How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race? When the top...
How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race?

When the top guys all start together how awesome and rare is that?! It's like wow here we go it's on.

Why not take a look at the starting gate.

Right now if you qualify first or last the only difference is where on the gate you get to pick. Last place guys still have nearly the same chance of a Hole shot despite qualifying last.

I say make the gate diagonal. First place pick is on the inside, second place is one over and six inches back, and each position is six inches behind the next.

This would to my eye give a more distinct advantage to the better qualifying spots, allowing the top guys to all start together and thus less races getting wrecked before the second turn.

Also we should consider black flagging lappers after maybe 2+ laps down, or having a 106% rule like f1 did. The Lappers are downright dangerous and confusing trying to figure out positioning on the race track for many viewers.
OP's proposal is already being done. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line (gate to the corner apex, not the corner entrance). Earn the right for top gate picks and you earn the right to choose the straightest line. As gate picks get further down in choice, that usually ends up with distance increases, along with other variables and disadvantages (pinch offs at the apex, etc.). Its not so much about lining up together, as much as where your spot potentially takes you, and how you get there. Obviously, exceptions happen, but they arent the rule. Many consistencies occur with the current system which points to a system that isn't really broken.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 9/6/2017 1:48am
9/6/2017 1:48am
kzizok wrote:
OP's proposal is already being done. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line (gate to the corner apex, not the...
OP's proposal is already being done. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line (gate to the corner apex, not the corner entrance). Earn the right for top gate picks and you earn the right to choose the straightest line. As gate picks get further down in choice, that usually ends up with distance increases, along with other variables and disadvantages (pinch offs at the apex, etc.). Its not so much about lining up together, as much as where your spot potentially takes you, and how you get there. Obviously, exceptions happen, but they arent the rule. Many consistencies occur with the current system which points to a system that isn't really broken.
If you consider follow the leader 450 snooze fest mains as "not really broken" then I agree with you.
kzizok
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kzizok 9/6/2017 2:10am
9/6/2017 2:10am
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
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Indy mxer 9/6/2017 3:59am
9/6/2017 3:59am
I think they should experiment a bit with the starts.
Every other form of racing rewards the fastest qualifiers more than SX.
To me, gate pick isn't enough. SX seems to be getting too start dependent.

The first 10 seconds of a race shouldn't be so important. imo

I'd rather see 2 rows of 10 with the fastest riders in the front. I'd be interested to see what happens with the fastest riders up front together, right from the get go.

All sports evolve. Even the NFL embraces change to improve the product.


Robgvx
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Robgvx 9/6/2017 4:16am
9/6/2017 4:16am
You're all missing the point. Follow-my-leader racing is nothing to do with the start, and everything to do with track design, and particularly corner shape.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 9/6/2017 5:05am
9/6/2017 5:05am
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work.

Check out my idea on page one and let me know what you think.

You still get great racing in the qualifiers. You still get the same gate drop for the main events. Just a small tweak will make the on track racing better for the mains.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 9/6/2017 5:27am
9/6/2017 5:27am
Tomac called and said he loves the metal starting gates!
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/6/2017 5:59am
9/6/2017 5:59am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2017 6:00am
The problem is results are too predictable and boring.

Giving an advantage to the fastest just makes it worse.

Penalizing the fastest isn't fair (and will result in sandbagging).

Random start positions creates drama and interest in a fair way. (And is part of SX origins).

Qualifying should get you in the show, not an advantage on starts.

The metal grate gates solve nothing except track maintenance and dirt packing.
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 9/6/2017 6:52am
9/6/2017 6:52am
Practice should not be timed qualifying, at least not for the top 20. These dudes find the fastest line around the track, then the goat trail is created and the goats follow it all day long. Great racing bro!

Make "A" practice the top 20 who are confirmed to race. "B" practice can be timed qualifying to get into the night show since they all probably won't be taking the same lines. Give points for heat races and invert the starting order.

Random positions suck because someone is gonna get screwed and someone is gonna get lucky. Doesn't really change the likelihood of great racing. 2 rows don't work because it exponentially screws the guy who qualified 11th. It's not equally unfair. Not to mention it eliminates any chance of hero rides from dudes who need hero rides for confidence and sponsors.
downard254
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downard254 9/6/2017 9:27am
9/6/2017 9:27am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2017 9:28am
If we're gonna change, let's just go back to a rubber band start. Sometimes when you jumped those, it would hurt like a bitch.

Or do any of you kids out there even know what that is?
kzizok
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kzizok 9/6/2017 4:45pm
9/6/2017 4:45pm
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
TXDirt wrote:
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work. Check out my idea on page one and let...
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work.

Check out my idea on page one and let me know what you think.

You still get great racing in the qualifiers. You still get the same gate drop for the main events. Just a small tweak will make the on track racing better for the mains.
Read it and agree. Something like that could add additiinal parity. I agree too, that the first 50 feet can make or break an entire race, and that is more than its fair share of race outcome influence.

kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/6/2017 5:06pm
9/6/2017 5:06pm
Zaugg wrote:
...but what is Jeff Emig going to say as a replacement for "getting a good start" as one of his Keys to the Race?
Better qualifying?
kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/6/2017 5:09pm
9/6/2017 5:09pm
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
^^ this
BMSOBx2
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BMSOBx2 9/6/2017 5:13pm
9/6/2017 5:13pm
Cut the start straights to 100' max. That ought to bunch em up.

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bama205
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bama205 9/6/2017 5:18pm
9/6/2017 5:18pm
Some head to head races :-D
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/6/2017 5:29pm
9/6/2017 5:29pm
Man, some of you guys are so negative towards change!!
How do you know some of these ideas won't work?
You try different ideas and see what happens. Would the racing be any less exciting?


Like I said, it would be cool to see what would happen if you got all the fast guys out together for once, like all other motor sports. But you will never know until you try.

I still believe SX depends too mush on the start.

But I also agree the tracks need more thought as well. Maybe get a group of riders, team managers and owners together with the track builders, and have them bring ideas on how to improve the racing.

Ransom_Bennett 9/6/2017 5:33pm
9/6/2017 5:33pm
I like this idea but with the fastest guy starting on the furthest back gate with the least advantage
resetjet
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resetjet 9/6/2017 5:36pm
9/6/2017 5:36pm
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
TXDirt wrote:
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work. Check out my idea on page one and let...
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work.

Check out my idea on page one and let me know what you think.

You still get great racing in the qualifiers. You still get the same gate drop for the main events. Just a small tweak will make the on track racing better for the mains.
2 or 3 mains and no quali in the night show wont work????? Honestly heats and semis are confusing to the uninformed anyway.

Mec style 450 and 250 as it is and a privateer class, race whatever you want 2t 4t, 0-500cc
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/6/2017 5:37pm
9/6/2017 5:37pm
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
kiwifan wrote:
^^ this
I disagree on MX. The only thing that made the Ironman exciting is the fact JH came to race.
Other than that, there wasn't any drama. Just like every year at that race. C'mon, did anyone really thing ET wasn't going to win the title.
I live 1.5 hours from the track and didn't go this year. I've been every year prior.

If it wasn't for JH, the riders would have just mailed it in like they do every year there. The crowd is reflecting that. It got smaller every year and by the look on TV it wasn't great this year. Even though the weather was perfect.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 9/6/2017 6:06pm
9/6/2017 6:06pm
kzizok wrote:
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the...
Snooze fests do happen. But man, this years racing, from beginning to end, in both SX and MX (in both classes) has been one of the best I remember seeing. My main point is, that a distance disadvantage/advantage proposal already happens, inherently. So a proposal to fix something with a similar solution seems moot to me. To that, increasing said distance, that rewards the fastest with even shorter distances, seems like a recipe for even more snooze fests.
TXDirt wrote:
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work. Check out my idea on page one and let...
I agree with you and don't think any of the proposed ideas in this thread would work.

Check out my idea on page one and let me know what you think.

You still get great racing in the qualifiers. You still get the same gate drop for the main events. Just a small tweak will make the on track racing better for the mains.
kzizok wrote:
Read it and agree. Something like that could add additiinal parity. I agree too, that the first 50 feet can make or break an entire race...
Read it and agree. Something like that could add additiinal parity. I agree too, that the first 50 feet can make or break an entire race, and that is more than its fair share of race outcome influence.

Thanks for going back to read it and then providing some feedback.

Agree, the first 50 feet is too important. Need more variability in start outcomes. The cream will rise to the top anyways but we might actually see some passes being made in a race. That's lacking big time right now in the premiere class.

And the additional exposure of the B teams and privateers starting up front is a bonus as well.

My proposed change is the smallest change that will have the biggest positive impact with the on track racing. It still maintains great heat races, you still get the exciting main event gate drops. And the main events might actually get some racing and some passes being made rather then this follow the leader crap we have been getting for over a decade.
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/6/2017 6:55pm
9/6/2017 6:55pm
Rockinar wrote:
The starting stretch should be like the show Wipe Out.

https://youtu.be/SK4WB3HqWaQ
Lmfao!!!
I used to watch that show. Loved it. I wish it was still on.
BS12
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BS12 9/7/2017 12:04am
9/7/2017 12:04am Edited Date/Time 9/7/2017 12:46am


Ended up watching the whole main after posting this. Good race. The pass by DV12 on Byrner was cool

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