Team orders

YamaLink
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YamaLink 4/29/2017 5:55pm
4/29/2017 5:55pm
Not since Ricky Bobby and "Shake n' Bake" has a win been given up so easily.
quicken
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quicken 4/29/2017 5:55pm
4/29/2017 5:55pm
surfercross wrote:
He didn't pull over. He made a mistake and came in to hot on the corner and missed the rut Dungey passed. If there were team...
He didn't pull over. He made a mistake and came in to hot on the corner and missed the rut Dungey passed. If there were team orders then why did Marvin pass Dungey in the first place. Marvin was pissed because he missed winning another race by making a mistake.
Really......?
Tyler36
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Tyler36 4/29/2017 5:58pm
4/29/2017 5:58pm
I wonder why Marvin would even make the pass on Dungey if he knew he was going to have to let him by on the last lap? Wouldn't it be easier and less obvious to not pass Dungey and just stay in 2nd place?
MB109
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MB109 4/29/2017 5:59pm
4/29/2017 5:59pm
I don't remember people this fired up when Coop "stalled" his bike and let J-mart by during the 2015 nationals..

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Lester
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Lester 4/29/2017 6:01pm
4/29/2017 6:01pm
A couple of points:

1) Anything can happen next week. This week proved that.

2) Talk about "team orders" is just deflection; Tomac choked all on his own and if he loses the title, has only that to blame.

3) Even if Dungey would have gotten second, he'd have the points lead and be sitting in the drivers seat going into the final.
spd721
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spd721 4/29/2017 6:01pm
4/29/2017 6:01pm
spd721 wrote:
That was a bullshit move by Marv. No longer a fan of his due to that. Both him and Ryan should be docked points.
F.B wrote:
What was he supposed to do? Ignore a team order?
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
Berm
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Berm 4/29/2017 6:01pm
4/29/2017 6:01pm
When you watch the last 2 laps, Marvin takes the OUTSIDE of almost every corner (many more outsides than he was running all night). Although, he is a professional so I'm sure he knows that you leave the inside wide open if you want to keep the lead right?
Elbows
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Elbows 4/29/2017 6:02pm
4/29/2017 6:02pm
What a joke. MM will regret that one day.
Yamaknockers
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Yamaknockers 4/29/2017 6:05pm
4/29/2017 6:05pm
MB109 wrote:
I don't remember people this fired up when Coop "stalled" his bike and let J-mart by during the 2015 nationals..
Martin was catching coop anyways.
Walter
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Walter 4/29/2017 6:05pm
4/29/2017 6:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 6:25pm
spd721 wrote:
I believe it was Clint Bower when he raced for MWR. Too bad the AMA doesn't have the balls to do anything like that.
My recollection is that Bowyer intentionally spun to cause a yellow flag that would benefit his teammate. That is way different from merely letting someone by, which happens all the time in NASCAR to allow a teammate to get a point for leading a lap.

Musquin took points from Dungey this year in several races (Seattle, Detroit, Indianappolis, Minneapolis, & Texas). Everyone said then..."Well, that was stupid of the team."

No KTM or Husky rider balked Tomac anytime all season long.

Perhaps MM did make a mistake today...even if not it is no big deal and certainly not a cause for fear and loathing...
F.B
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F.B 4/29/2017 6:05pm
4/29/2017 6:05pm
spd721 wrote:
That was a bullshit move by Marv. No longer a fan of his due to that. Both him and Ryan should be docked points.
F.B wrote:
What was he supposed to do? Ignore a team order?
spd721 wrote:
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
No I hate team orders, but if you're going to blame someone blame Decoster, it wasn't Marvin's decision.
patrickadizzle 4/29/2017 6:07pm
4/29/2017 6:07pm
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it.

Here is my question... If it's not as big of a deal as people are saying, and that 'it's the norm in motorsports' then why try to make it look like a mistake?

Why not just pull over, put your hand on your hip and give Dungey a cheerful wave by and then on the podium say that you were doing it to help your teammate win a championship because that is what teammates do.

Why lie about making a mistake when everyone knows it wasn't one? I believe that is why people are upset, saying it was a mistake is just beyond disingenuous, its disrespectful to the fans. Just be honest with it, say you let your teammate by.
moto62z
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moto62z 4/29/2017 6:09pm
4/29/2017 6:09pm
patrickadizzle wrote:
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it...
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it.

Here is my question... If it's not as big of a deal as people are saying, and that 'it's the norm in motorsports' then why try to make it look like a mistake?

Why not just pull over, put your hand on your hip and give Dungey a cheerful wave by and then on the podium say that you were doing it to help your teammate win a championship because that is what teammates do.

Why lie about making a mistake when everyone knows it wasn't one? I believe that is why people are upset, saying it was a mistake is just beyond disingenuous, its disrespectful to the fans. Just be honest with it, say you let your teammate by.
^^^This, thats why you have a team but just say you were happy to help your teammate.
Ultra54
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Ultra54 4/29/2017 6:14pm
4/29/2017 6:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 6:19pm
mjr119 wrote:
This is the circus now, not a real competition.
And your a joke.....their employer who pays their checks makes the calls and they did the right thing, they are a team after all.
stantdm
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stantdm 4/29/2017 6:15pm
4/29/2017 6:15pm
Tbteam wrote:
Wasn't it Michael Waltrip or someone a few years ago who was fined and suspended for the same type of behavior?
Waltrip was fined $300,000.00
kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 4/29/2017 6:23pm
4/29/2017 6:23pm
Lester wrote:
A couple of points: 1) Anything can happen next week. This week proved that. 2) Talk about "team orders" is just deflection; Tomac choked all on...
A couple of points:

1) Anything can happen next week. This week proved that.

2) Talk about "team orders" is just deflection; Tomac choked all on his own and if he loses the title, has only that to blame.

3) Even if Dungey would have gotten second, he'd have the points lead and be sitting in the drivers seat going into the final.
Thank you for bringing some common sense reality to the forum. I share your opinion.
Bermworm
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Bermworm 4/29/2017 6:24pm
4/29/2017 6:24pm
I actually believed what Marvin said on the podium because everyone struggled out there except Dungey which of course is why he won.Keyboard racers will say what they want.Everyone else who actually races and competes week in and week out knows no one pulls over for any one ever.Hannah did it once and we are still talking about it 40 years on.Not only did it eat him up inside(and probably still does...)but he made sure he got paid for it.If you can prove Marvin got the $100 000 win bonus from KTM any way (for pulling over on team orders) I of course will gladly eat my words.Seems tough to imagine people so competitive as pro MX'ers giving up a position and 100k at the same time.
KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 4/29/2017 6:26pm
4/29/2017 6:26pm
Berm wrote:
When you watch the last 2 laps, Marvin takes the OUTSIDE of almost every corner (many more outsides than he was running all night). Although, he...
When you watch the last 2 laps, Marvin takes the OUTSIDE of almost every corner (many more outsides than he was running all night). Although, he is a professional so I'm sure he knows that you leave the inside wide open if you want to keep the lead right?
Yes. Even when not taking the outside it was obvious MM was dropping anchor. I totally agree he put the pressure on early in the race then tried to not make it look obvious he was slowing down. Then he pulled over (!!??)

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Graham_Barber 4/29/2017 6:31pm
4/29/2017 6:31pm
pretty obvious Marvin gave him Three points,but the real story is Eli meltdown, biggest since Bradshaw....
kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 4/29/2017 6:32pm
4/29/2017 6:32pm
spd721 wrote:
That was a bullshit move by Marv. No longer a fan of his due to that. Both him and Ryan should be docked points.
F.B wrote:
What was he supposed to do? Ignore a team order?
spd721 wrote:
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
Guys, I understand youre upset, but you cant make that statement about the rules unless you actually know the rules.

So many people here saying it is against the rules, and manipulation, and Dungey passed under a yellow yada, yada, yada.

Team orders are not against the rules, you can pass under the yellow in dirt bike racing.

In Nascar and most auto racing, teams are allowed to help each other out and let a team mate pass them under any racing condition except a red or yellow flag, they are not allowed to intentionally cause a caution and affect the outcome of the entire race, nor can you take out another racer to help your team mate, however it has to be a pretty flagrant takeout that could not be ruled as a racing incident. Do you know how many times Penske and Target Team mates have let racers go by to win titles and even the Indy 500, the biggest race on Earth?

Come on guys.
kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 4/29/2017 6:38pm
4/29/2017 6:38pm
Bermworm wrote:
I actually believed what Marvin said on the podium because everyone struggled out there except Dungey which of course is why he won.Keyboard racers will say...
I actually believed what Marvin said on the podium because everyone struggled out there except Dungey which of course is why he won.Keyboard racers will say what they want.Everyone else who actually races and competes week in and week out knows no one pulls over for any one ever.Hannah did it once and we are still talking about it 40 years on.Not only did it eat him up inside(and probably still does...)but he made sure he got paid for it.If you can prove Marvin got the $100 000 win bonus from KTM any way (for pulling over on team orders) I of course will gladly eat my words.Seems tough to imagine people so competitive as pro MX'ers giving up a position and 100k at the same time.
KTM just resigned Marvin to a nice 2 year contract right before this race, I am sure they said thanks for being a good racer and a good member of the team. We have rewarded you with this nice big contract for 2 more years, which is way more valuable than any single race win or 100K. They believe in him and he will get more win bonuses and a really nice salary for two more years and most important, he wont be "that guy" that cost his team mate and buddy his last title before retiring. Win/win in my book and that is why KTM and RD/MM are winning and leading our sport and why we are all here arguing about with our keyboards!

Best season in recent memory, I have nothing to complain about except JS7 is MIA and a Honda didnt win more races.
gabrielito
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gabrielito 4/29/2017 6:39pm
4/29/2017 6:39pm
F.B wrote:
What was he supposed to do? Ignore a team order?
spd721 wrote:
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
F.B wrote:
No I hate team orders, but if you're going to blame someone blame Decoster, it wasn't Marvin's decision.
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 4/29/2017 6:39pm
4/29/2017 6:39pm
kaptkaos wrote:
Guys, I understand youre upset, but you cant make that statement about the rules unless you actually know the rules. So many people here saying it...
Guys, I understand youre upset, but you cant make that statement about the rules unless you actually know the rules.

So many people here saying it is against the rules, and manipulation, and Dungey passed under a yellow yada, yada, yada.

Team orders are not against the rules, you can pass under the yellow in dirt bike racing.

In Nascar and most auto racing, teams are allowed to help each other out and let a team mate pass them under any racing condition except a red or yellow flag, they are not allowed to intentionally cause a caution and affect the outcome of the entire race, nor can you take out another racer to help your team mate, however it has to be a pretty flagrant takeout that could not be ruled as a racing incident. Do you know how many times Penske and Target Team mates have let racers go by to win titles and even the Indy 500, the biggest race on Earth?

Come on guys.
Yes. It's amazing how many people here are unaware this has always been a part of the sport.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 4/29/2017 6:43pm
4/29/2017 6:43pm
gabrielito wrote:
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
Seriously ? He was doing what the team told him to do ... you know, his employers ? You could tell he was bothered by it on the podium .
dirtnapper
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dirtnapper 4/29/2017 6:45pm
4/29/2017 6:45pm
spd721 wrote:
That was a bullshit move by Marv. No longer a fan of his due to that. Both him and Ryan should be docked points.
F.B wrote:
What was he supposed to do? Ignore a team order?
spd721 wrote:
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
You do realize that even if they were both docked 2 places, Ryan would still have the points lead right?Huh

What would you be crying about then?

Grow up.
F.B
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F.B 4/29/2017 6:53pm
4/29/2017 6:53pm
spd721 wrote:
So you're ok with him manipulating the results? Are team orders above the rule book? The AMA should dock both of them two spots for it.
F.B wrote:
No I hate team orders, but if you're going to blame someone blame Decoster, it wasn't Marvin's decision.
gabrielito wrote:
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
You're right, he should have ignored the order and ruin his relationship with KTM.Dry
Bigfoot
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Bigfoot 4/29/2017 6:54pm
4/29/2017 6:54pm


gabrielito
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gabrielito 4/29/2017 6:58pm
4/29/2017 6:58pm
F.B wrote:
No I hate team orders, but if you're going to blame someone blame Decoster, it wasn't Marvin's decision.
gabrielito wrote:
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
F.B wrote:
You're right, he should have ignored the order and ruin his relationship with KTM.Dry
He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship? Obviously he was in a bad spot, but does he race for himself or for KTM and Dungey? Marv caved to pressure and sold himself.
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 4/29/2017 7:01pm
4/29/2017 7:01pm
Looked like Marvin simply choked under the pressure to me. Obviously the Ryan statement on the board was to let Marvin know who ultimately pressured him into a mistake.
line-up
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line-up 4/29/2017 7:01pm
4/29/2017 7:01pm
Nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is that Kawi didn't do the same with Grant. They might well regret that at Vegas.



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