Keefer Back Peddling on KTM 450

Dinosaur Media
He is a now fan Judging by his comments on PulpMx.

Maybe the Vital 450 Shootout was the better of the two?

His mag ranked the YZ450 first when most others had it third/fourth/fifth...
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Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 2/21/2017 7:27am
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early
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early 2/21/2017 7:36am
2/21/2017 7:36am
I dont think he rode very much or at all for the 450 shootout because he was still recovering from a concussion.
Motofinne
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Motofinne 2/21/2017 7:40am
2/21/2017 7:40am
Yeah he said that this is the first time he has rode one for a longer period of time because of the crash he had.

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Martini637 2/21/2017 7:42am
2/21/2017 7:42am
I was surprised too when he said that he really liked the ktm factory edition. I agree with Early, i dont think he got alot of seat time in the shootout with his injury. Because the factory edition and stock 450 isnt that much different compaired to past years version

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moto0852
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moto0852 2/21/2017 8:03am
2/21/2017 8:03am
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot out results and that everyone in the world knows the YZ is heads and tails better I lost a lot of respect for him and any perceived impartiality.

Now, with everyones shoot out published Dirtrider looks like they are clueless.

Keefer seems like a pretty good dude who anyone would love to have as a friend but I don't value his testing expertise like I used to.
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Motofinne 2/21/2017 8:05am
2/21/2017 8:05am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2017 8:37am
moto0852 wrote:
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot...
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot out results and that everyone in the world knows the YZ is heads and tails better I lost a lot of respect for him and any perceived impartiality.

Now, with everyones shoot out published Dirtrider looks like they are clueless.

Keefer seems like a pretty good dude who anyone would love to have as a friend but I don't value his testing expertise like I used to.
Yeah well i didn't want to bring up that. But if we look at the shootout results Dirt Rider stands out in a big way when it comes to the 450 winner. It's a bigger anomaly compared to the Vital 250 results. Although this is a bit off topic.


But with that said, i'm on board with Ping. Shootouts are stupid these days. The dialed in concept that Ping/Racer X has is better in my opinion. I also like the garage in stock videos, although the projects are getting a bit too similar, especially the 2 strokes. It's time for some of the 2016/17 KTM/Husky 2 strokes in my opinion since they are actually brand new.
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moto0852 2/21/2017 8:13am
2/21/2017 8:13am
moto0852 wrote:
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot...
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot out results and that everyone in the world knows the YZ is heads and tails better I lost a lot of respect for him and any perceived impartiality.

Now, with everyones shoot out published Dirtrider looks like they are clueless.

Keefer seems like a pretty good dude who anyone would love to have as a friend but I don't value his testing expertise like I used to.
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah well i didn't want to bring up that. But if we look at the shootout results Dirt Rider stands out in a big way when...
Yeah well i didn't want to bring up that. But if we look at the shootout results Dirt Rider stands out in a big way when it comes to the 450 winner. It's a bigger anomaly compared to the Vital 250 results. Although this is a bit off topic.


But with that said, i'm on board with Ping. Shootouts are stupid these days. The dialed in concept that Ping/Racer X has is better in my opinion. I also like the garage in stock videos, although the projects are getting a bit too similar, especially the 2 strokes. It's time for some of the 2016/17 KTM/Husky 2 strokes in my opinion since they are actually brand new.
Agree...I think Pings point on shoot outs is valid... for now. It may change.

In the 80's there was so much change (dual to single shock, air to water cooling, rising rate changes, etc.) that some bikes clearly were better than others and a shoot out helped you spend you money wisely.

In the 90's-00's same thing to a lesser extent

00's-08 It started to become more what you preferred rather than what was better

Today? Man, after the new RM comes out (assuming its good) I don't think you can go wrong with any brand.
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PJ205 2/21/2017 8:14am
2/21/2017 8:14am
I've never heard him say anything bad about the KTM. He also had nothing to do with the 450 shootout... he was on the mend from a crash during practice at the vet nationals.
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moto0852 2/21/2017 8:18am
2/21/2017 8:18am
PJ205 wrote:
I've never heard him say anything bad about the KTM. He also had nothing to do with the 450 shootout... he was on the mend from...
I've never heard him say anything bad about the KTM. He also had nothing to do with the 450 shootout... he was on the mend from a crash during practice at the vet nationals.
His method of saying something bad about the KTM was to say the YZ was better in most every aspect and yes...he wasnt involved much with the shootout because of his injury...yet he still stated (without having the seat time on all bikes) that "The YZ is just the best and if anyone thinks otherwise there are just plain wrong"
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PJ205 2/21/2017 8:23am
2/21/2017 8:23am
So if I were to say that I like the color red then that automatically means that I think blue is terrible? What does his opinion about the Yamaha have to do with the outcome of the 450 shootout that he wasn't part of? Faulty logic.
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SPYGUY 2/21/2017 8:34am
2/21/2017 8:34am
It's backpedaling to say that a new bike with settings you've never ridden before is better than the old bike?

Here are his instagram comments from the other day...

kkeefer120 Well..... Rode the 2017.5 KTM FE 450 today. I have to say I'm really impressed and somewhat shocked on how well this machine works. KTM didn't do much (some suspension changes, slip on muffler, etc.), but what they did do, they did well. I thought the standard 2017 KTM 450 SX-F was pretty good, but it took me a little while to find a happy setting to where I felt comfy on it. On the FE I got comfy right away! I'm a very transparent person/test rider and will have to give credit where credit is due. This is a great bike. Kudos to the guys in the KTM R&D department for making a very balanced chassis, fast, yet controllable engine character, that lets the rider go where he or she wants to on the track. Riding bikes like this makes typing the article very easy and fun to do.
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Motofinne 2/21/2017 8:40am
2/21/2017 8:40am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2017 9:18am
Keefers comments makes sense. The 2017 FE has the third version of the AER fork. R&D over a longer(in this case only a few years) period makes a huge difference. Just look at the KYB SSS fork. The TMs have that fork but they aren't allowed to use the same settings that Yamaha have developed over 10 years.
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moto0852 2/21/2017 9:12am
2/21/2017 9:12am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2017 9:16am
PJ205 wrote:
So if I were to say that I like the color red then that automatically means that I think blue is terrible? What does his opinion...
So if I were to say that I like the color red then that automatically means that I think blue is terrible? What does his opinion about the Yamaha have to do with the outcome of the 450 shootout that he wasn't part of? Faulty logic.
You miss understood. The proper analogy would be "I like red...red is the best color. If you like another color better then red you are wrong."

Get it now?

denigration via inference
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Matthes 2/21/2017 9:13am
2/21/2017 9:13am
The whole thing with Keefer and Michael was about the 250 shootout, I think some of you guys are confused about this.

No?
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moto0852 2/21/2017 9:18am
2/21/2017 9:18am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2017 9:20am
Matthes wrote:
The whole thing with Keefer and Michael was about the 250 shootout, I think some of you guys are confused about this.

No?
Steve that was just one example. Dirtrider needs to step it up with timed laps, data collection, dynos and litpro data if they want any credibility against the other publications.

Keefer's new motto should be "Worry less about LitKits and more about Litpro" lol
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moto0852 2/21/2017 9:23am
2/21/2017 9:23am
Motofinne wrote:
Keefers comments makes sense. The 2017 FE has the third version of the AER fork. R&D over a longer(in this case only a few years) period...
Keefers comments makes sense. The 2017 FE has the third version of the AER fork. R&D over a longer(in this case only a few years) period makes a huge difference. Just look at the KYB SSS fork. The TMs have that fork but they aren't allowed to use the same settings that Yamaha have developed over 10 years.
On a side note to your comment, I have a 17 KTM 300XC with the 48 AER forks...I'm really curious what suspension company is going to offer the upgrades that the 17.5 F.E. comes with that seem to be much better.
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Motofinne 2/21/2017 9:25am
2/21/2017 9:25am
Motofinne wrote:
Keefers comments makes sense. The 2017 FE has the third version of the AER fork. R&D over a longer(in this case only a few years) period...
Keefers comments makes sense. The 2017 FE has the third version of the AER fork. R&D over a longer(in this case only a few years) period makes a huge difference. Just look at the KYB SSS fork. The TMs have that fork but they aren't allowed to use the same settings that Yamaha have developed over 10 years.
moto0852 wrote:
On a side note to your comment, I have a 17 KTM 300XC with the 48 AER forks...I'm really curious what suspension company is going to...
On a side note to your comment, I have a 17 KTM 300XC with the 48 AER forks...I'm really curious what suspension company is going to offer the upgrades that the 17.5 F.E. comes with that seem to be much better.
Well it's just a new piston, or am i wrong?

I think you can order the new piston from a WP or KTM dealer?
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PJ205 2/21/2017 9:25am
2/21/2017 9:25am
moto0852 wrote:
You miss understood. The proper analogy would be "I like red...red is the best color. If you like another color better then red you are wrong."...
You miss understood. The proper analogy would be "I like red...red is the best color. If you like another color better then red you are wrong."

Get it now?

denigration via inference
Oh I understand you completely, it's just that you're wrong.

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twotwosix 2/21/2017 9:59am
2/21/2017 9:59am
Matthes wrote:
The whole thing with Keefer and Michael was about the 250 shootout, I think some of you guys are confused about this.

No?
This thread is all about retribution for dishonoring Michael. Grinning Grinning Grinning
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Motofinne 2/21/2017 10:00am
2/21/2017 10:00am
Matthes wrote:
The whole thing with Keefer and Michael was about the 250 shootout, I think some of you guys are confused about this.

No?
twotwosix wrote:
This thread is all about retribution for dishonoring Michael. Grinning Grinning Grinning


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TeamGreen 2/21/2017 10:07am
2/21/2017 10:07am Edited Date/Time 2/21/2017 10:10am
Dinosaur Media wrote:
He is a now fan Judging by his comments on PulpMx. Maybe the Vital 450 Shootout was the better of the two? His mag ranked the...
He is a now fan Judging by his comments on PulpMx.

Maybe the Vital 450 Shootout was the better of the two?

His mag ranked the YZ450 first when most others had it third/fourth/fifth...
If you have a few hours on a Yamaha, and you figure out how to move around on it and you learn how well it turns...
And you find the "Balance" (front to rear)...that is a big deal on the YZF...

Take the time to get those things right for you and...combined with the "Turbo-Diesel" power? It's an EXCELLENT bike. And, let's remember, it's got suspension that's REALLY GOOD right out of the box.

I think those are the reasons that Keefer rates the Yamaha like he does. When it comes to their 250F...it is REALLY EASY to make the Yamaha competitive at the Pro level.
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aees 2/21/2017 10:14am
2/21/2017 10:14am
There is difference in 16fe, 17 and 17fe on the AER setup and Shock, that makes a difference. If revalve/rebuild anyway then it does not matter
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moto0852 2/21/2017 10:16am
2/21/2017 10:16am
moto0852 wrote:
You miss understood. The proper analogy would be "I like red...red is the best color. If you like another color better then red you are wrong."...
You miss understood. The proper analogy would be "I like red...red is the best color. If you like another color better then red you are wrong."

Get it now?

denigration via inference
PJ205 wrote:
Oh I understand you completely, it's just that you're wrong.
Oh the irony! That's exactly what Keefer said to everyone! You are funny my friend.
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ML512 2/21/2017 10:35am
2/21/2017 10:35am
Motofinne wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/02/21/177573/s1200_fckoff.jpg[/img]


Rise my followers...rise and lash out upon those that disagree with my teachings! Evil Evil Evil

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peelout 2/21/2017 11:04am
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mmcmx 2/21/2017 11:15am
2/21/2017 11:15am
So after spending some hours on a 17 KTM he felt right at home on the 17'5 KTM. Shocking.
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jeffro503 2/21/2017 11:25am
2/21/2017 11:25am
Sooo.....what this means is , him and Matthes aren't joined at the hip?
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bsward423 2/21/2017 11:55am
2/21/2017 11:55am
Must be a slow news day if this is what you people are worried about. It's an opinion on a couple bikes. Relax.
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racer495a 2/21/2017 11:58am
2/21/2017 11:58am
It sounds like Keefer didn't get to ride the 2017 much because of his concussion and is now giving the bike a fair shot is how I took it. But the 17 has been out for a long time also...
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brightlights 2/22/2017 5:55am
2/22/2017 5:55am
moto0852 wrote:
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot...
Look it's all opinion based right? And everyone is entitled to that opinion but when Keefer (and Steve) basically called ML an idiot for his shoot out results and that everyone in the world knows the YZ is heads and tails better I lost a lot of respect for him and any perceived impartiality.

Now, with everyones shoot out published Dirtrider looks like they are clueless.

Keefer seems like a pretty good dude who anyone would love to have as a friend but I don't value his testing expertise like I used to.
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah well i didn't want to bring up that. But if we look at the shootout results Dirt Rider stands out in a big way when...
Yeah well i didn't want to bring up that. But if we look at the shootout results Dirt Rider stands out in a big way when it comes to the 450 winner. It's a bigger anomaly compared to the Vital 250 results. Although this is a bit off topic.


But with that said, i'm on board with Ping. Shootouts are stupid these days. The dialed in concept that Ping/Racer X has is better in my opinion. I also like the garage in stock videos, although the projects are getting a bit too similar, especially the 2 strokes. It's time for some of the 2016/17 KTM/Husky 2 strokes in my opinion since they are actually brand new.
moto0852 wrote:
Agree...I think Pings point on shoot outs is valid... for now. It may change. In the 80's there was so much change (dual to single shock...
Agree...I think Pings point on shoot outs is valid... for now. It may change.

In the 80's there was so much change (dual to single shock, air to water cooling, rising rate changes, etc.) that some bikes clearly were better than others and a shoot out helped you spend you money wisely.

In the 90's-00's same thing to a lesser extent

00's-08 It started to become more what you preferred rather than what was better

Today? Man, after the new RM comes out (assuming its good) I don't think you can go wrong with any brand.
Yeh I would agree with this perspective and add that I watched 2 RMs walk away from the feild in all 4 motos at the pro challenge at Tyler, so maybe we dont even need to wait for the new RM to say any brand will work.

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