Race Safety

ktm212
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608
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Location
Lafayette, NJ, USA
With all the craziness we saw this past weekend at the supercross; flat tires, front brake issues. bikes bogging, and about a million crashes (Mookie, tomac, the 3 dudes in the heat race, forkner in the whoops, braytons red flag) I had a few issues with 2 incidents and 1 in particular. Everyone else got their bikes fixed before reentering the track, webbs flat tire was changed, ect. My issues is they let 2 riders reenter the race in a dangerous situation, Tomac and McElrath. Shanes I have a bit less of an issue with, his bike was running he was rolling jumps, staying out of harms way, and the race was nearly over but he got 22nd, he earned one point and put his own safety and the safety of other riders in jeopardy for 1 point. He was still jumping little stuff keeping his momentum and letting people by but was rolling triples and after seeing 3 separate crashes in the same triple the danger is too high, we saw last week with Catanzaro and Hansen too, the week before with Starling and some guy, and the week before with the 450 main. Too dangerous to continue if your bike wont make the jumps every lap. I have an even worse beef with Team Kawasaki and Tomac. NO FRONT BRAKE!? He's lucky he didn't wind up in the cheap seats, not only SUPER dangerous because he has no brakes but also because he went back out and pushed to 13th. Not only that but his team didn't even try to determine what was wrong with the bike. We saw the entire pit stop on tv and it was like dumb and dumber working on the bike, they didn't even put his bike on the stand and spin the wheel they just CUT his brake line?! Anyone could crack the banjo bolt to release air pressure or take an adjustable and straighten a brake rotor or at least asses the situation. I find it wildly unacceptable they let him continue racing with absolutely no front brake, it wouldn't go through tech inspection with no front brake how can you let him continue racing. Obviously it's done and over but lets look at this rationally, there is probably a rule about it everyone is just turning a cheek too and if there isn't there ought to be.
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2/14/2017 12:32pm
Holy shit that was a long block of text to read through.
So you have a problem with team Kawasaki letting Tomac go back out to try and earn some points? They're professional mechanics and if that's the best compromise to get him going again in as little time as possible then I'd say it's probably as good as what anyone else could do in the heat of the moment. I've rode bikes with no front brake and I've rode bikes with no rear brake, let me tell you no brake is a LOT better than a bent rotor that locks the wheel up whenever it wants to.

I'd say every racer here has finished a race at some point without a brake lever so what's the difference?
TXDirt
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Plano, TX, USA
2/14/2017 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2017 12:48pm
So you are saying one of the best riders in the world can't navigate a track safely without a front brake? Really???

2/14/2017 1:02pm
TXDirt wrote:
So you are saying one of the best riders in the world can't navigate a track safely without a front brake? Really??? [img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0IFDuhdB2Hk/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
So you are saying one of the best riders in the world can't navigate a track safely without a front brake? Really???

Bro, I could barely navigate that run on paragraph. Screw track safety, we need paragraph safety. I mean, just imagine if a young impressionable vitard thinks that's acceptable grammar skillz.
2/14/2017 2:02pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2017 2:02pm
If Dungey can shift with his hand 15 feet in the air at race pace I think Tomac and race with no front brake, lots of other riders haven't done the same thing when they broke a brake lever or had damage during a race, if he was being dangerous they would have black flagged him.



The Shop

2/14/2017 2:09pm
The real question....is it possible to race safely?
loftyair
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2910
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7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA, USA
2/14/2017 2:15pm
They used to race with drum brakes, through water! 'No more vintage!' Air tire pressure check, every couple turns!
2/14/2017 2:17pm
I keep forgetting without a front brake all riding skills go out the window.
kott0n
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Vancouver, WA, USA
2/14/2017 2:23pm
If you didn't crash that race, probably don't need a helmet.

How stupid would the team of felt if he actually got hurt because of the brake?
GIwasB4
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Beverly Hills, CA, USA
2/14/2017 2:29pm
It's freaking racing.................seriously?
2/14/2017 2:45pm
As for Mcelrath 1 point can be the difference between winning and tieing or losing and tieing a championship.
2/14/2017 3:16pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2017 3:17pm
kott0n wrote:
If you didn't crash that race, probably don't need a helmet. How stupid would the team of felt if he actually got hurt because of the...
If you didn't crash that race, probably don't need a helmet.

How stupid would the team of felt if he actually got hurt because of the brake?
How stupid would the team feel if they didn't let him ride and lost the title by 1 point? If Eli can't ride without a front brake he doesn't deserve that ride or a title, ever. It's up to him to determine if he's being a danger to himself and others.

I was more surprised by McElrath pulling in to the pits twice. There was 3 minutes left. Nothing you can do. Stopping for anything is just going to cost you more time. Just... keep... going. Roll whatever you have to.
Sully
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JP
2/14/2017 3:23pm
So let me get this straight; when the gate drops, 22 guys go barreling down the start straight, side by side at 45-50 mph and that's OK, but Tomac riding without a front brake is dangerous? I'll be the first to admit that I don't see your logic...
jj welks
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USA
2/14/2017 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2017 3:25pm
Go show them how it's done OP. I heard all you need to become a pro dirtbike mechanic is 2 years vitard experience, your overqualified.
Frodad78
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USA
2/14/2017 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 2/14/2017 3:39pm
No Front brake on a 2 stroke, scary shit. No front brake on a 4 stroke, easy, engine braking.

I would be more concerned with people leaving banana peels on the track. If you've ever seen Mario Kart you know how dangerous they can be....
Dtat720
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Flowood, MS, USA
2/14/2017 3:42pm
Its 50 times safer out there with no brake than it is at your local practice day with johnny jackass winning practice every lap
mx836
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;, BF
2/14/2017 3:49pm
(Rolls eyes)

You have no idea what was said among the Kawi guys in the mechanic's area. You think Tomac's situation was more dangerous than Shane's? For who? I'd take no brake over a bike randomly cutting out any day. No problem whatsoever with finishing a race without one of your brakes. This isn't Nascar.

Peelout should be along shortly to tell you to check your sprocket bolts.
kott0n
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673
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Vancouver, WA, USA
2/14/2017 4:14pm
Too be fair I was playing devils advocate.

I thought my helmet comment would of given it away...
OldYZRider1
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847
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Bushnell, IL, USA
2/14/2017 5:25pm
Sully wrote:
So let me get this straight; when the gate drops, 22 guys go barreling down the start straight, side by side at 45-50 mph and that's...
So let me get this straight; when the gate drops, 22 guys go barreling down the start straight, side by side at 45-50 mph and that's OK, but Tomac riding without a front brake is dangerous? I'll be the first to admit that I don't see your logic...
Of course then there's this scenario. Your jumping a triple without a front brake, the rider in front of you falls and is laying on the track, you land the triple and have absolutely no way to scrub any speed off before you hit him because the most important brake on the motorcycle has been disabled. Seems like a vital safety system to disable especially with 450's and some of the higher speed tracks we're seeing.
Sully
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JP
2/14/2017 5:29pm
Sully wrote:
So let me get this straight; when the gate drops, 22 guys go barreling down the start straight, side by side at 45-50 mph and that's...
So let me get this straight; when the gate drops, 22 guys go barreling down the start straight, side by side at 45-50 mph and that's OK, but Tomac riding without a front brake is dangerous? I'll be the first to admit that I don't see your logic...
Of course then there's this scenario. Your jumping a triple without a front brake, the rider in front of you falls and is laying on the...
Of course then there's this scenario. Your jumping a triple without a front brake, the rider in front of you falls and is laying on the track, you land the triple and have absolutely no way to scrub any speed off before you hit him because the most important brake on the motorcycle has been disabled. Seems like a vital safety system to disable especially with 450's and some of the higher speed tracks we're seeing.
If the downed rider was so close to your landing spot that you couldn't avoid him, the front brake isn't going to slow you down enough to make much of a difference.
Starcrossed
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New Bedford, MA, USA
2/14/2017 5:39pm
I don't think they should really be policing these things to that extreme in pro racing. With everything that's on the line you can't have somebody making an objective decision on which bikes are safe enough to be on the track. Would they black flag riders who had obvious issues but didn't pull into the pits? Once the gate drops it has to be anything goes, for the most part.
reded
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3682
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USA
2/14/2017 5:44pm
No front brake.......pfffft. Losing the rear is when it gets fuckin exciting.
motomike137
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Fenton, MI, USA
2/14/2017 5:56pm
A couple years ago I was racing a local race and I tangled with a fellow vet rider while trying to pass him for the lead in the first moto. We went down and he snapped off his front brake lever. He was unable to find a replacement for the second moto and ended up winning the frigging race without it...lol! I told him he was never allowed to race without a front brake ever again!
OldYZRider1
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847
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Bushnell, IL, USA
2/15/2017 10:25pm
The 2017 Supercross rule book has this:

Section 4
Race Rules and Procedures
Section 4.15
b. Although the motorcycle, equipment or apparel passed prior inspections, the motorcycle, equipment or apparel must be in compliance with the rules at the post-race inspection.

Section 1
General Equipment Standards
Section 1.12 Brakes
a. All motorcycles must be equipped with adequate and operating front and rear wheel brakes

According to this it looks like disabling the brake wouldn't be allowed.

I don't know if this is a change in the rules as we've seen front brake lines cut before.
OldYZRider1
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847
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Bushnell, IL, USA
2/15/2017 10:40pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2017 10:42pm
duplicate post
philG
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11224
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GB
2/16/2017 3:38am
The 2017 Supercross rule book has this: Section 4 Race Rules and Procedures Section 4.15 b. Although the motorcycle, equipment or apparel passed prior inspections, the...
The 2017 Supercross rule book has this:

Section 4
Race Rules and Procedures
Section 4.15
b. Although the motorcycle, equipment or apparel passed prior inspections, the motorcycle, equipment or apparel must be in compliance with the rules at the post-race inspection.

Section 1
General Equipment Standards
Section 1.12 Brakes
a. All motorcycles must be equipped with adequate and operating front and rear wheel brakes

According to this it looks like disabling the brake wouldn't be allowed.

I don't know if this is a change in the rules as we've seen front brake lines cut before.
Well there is the rule.

There is a world of difference from finishing a race with a brake that has stopped working, and on that has been deliberately disabled,
2/16/2017 5:23am
He actually looked a little smoother with no front brake...........
Whistling

Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX, USA
2/16/2017 7:06am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2017 7:06am
He was obviously protected by the big green M.

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