Geico Insurance Hypocrisy

captmoto
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I bought a bike on credit until I get my tax return. It needed to be insured so I thought I would use Geico ,you know, support the companies that support mx and sx. I payed up front for 1 years worth of insurance. They sent out a questionnaire about racing, track days and how many in a year. I guess I should not have answered truthfully since 5 weeks later I get a cancellation notice because the bike would be raced.
I called to see about a refund and to their credit,I was already refunded. I did let customer service know that I thought their policy was hypocritical given how involved they were in racing pointing out the investment in the Geico FC SX/MX teams as well as all the advertising they aim directly at racers. I guess it's back to State Farm, back then they didn't care if I was "racing for a 6 pack". Those were my agents exact words. So Geico is largely bullshit to me.
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Motodork
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2/9/2017 2:51pm
captmoto wrote:
I bought a bike on credit until I get my tax return. It needed to be insured so I thought I would use Geico ,you know...
I bought a bike on credit until I get my tax return. It needed to be insured so I thought I would use Geico ,you know, support the companies that support mx and sx. I payed up front for 1 years worth of insurance. They sent out a questionnaire about racing, track days and how many in a year. I guess I should not have answered truthfully since 5 weeks later I get a cancellation notice because the bike would be raced.
I called to see about a refund and to their credit,I was already refunded. I did let customer service know that I thought their policy was hypocritical given how involved they were in racing pointing out the investment in the Geico FC SX/MX teams as well as all the advertising they aim directly at racers. I guess it's back to State Farm, back then they didn't care if I was "racing for a 6 pack". Those were my agents exact words. So Geico is largely bullshit to me.
I would like to say that every insurance policy will have it in the fine print that the policy is void if you are racing, driving dui or breaking the law. So if a guy is robbing a store and crashes during the get away he can't make a claim to his insurance.
moto589
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Chardon, OH, USA
2/9/2017 2:55pm
Why do you think Geico only runs a 250 team? It's not considered racing if its only 8 rounds.
blusmbl
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Plymouth, MI, USA
2/9/2017 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 2:58pm
At least with cars you can buy specific on-track insurance. You can't blame them for not wanting to insure it at a racetrack, the risk on their side is substantially higher.
JW381
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Harrisburg, OR, USA
2/9/2017 3:00pm
I've always been annoyed by that. My mom actually got our insurer to cover the damage to my bike when I crashed racing arena cross one winter.

I whiskey throttled into a concrete barrier and mangled the front end pretty good. They must have really assessed it because they paid for everything except for the rear shock seals and a few other shock components?

They dropped me soon after, but she gave the agent shit because he knew I was gonna be racing it yet he didn't specify that wouldn't be insured. I think it had more to do with her treating to pull all the vehicles and house they had insured thru him. That was Farmers, I beleive.

Don't those policies usually jut cover theft anyway? Maybe some other damages involved with storage/transportation. So why do they care if it's being raced or ridden in the woods, they don't cover damages either way?

The Shop

Tenacious P
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2/9/2017 3:05pm
Kind of on topic. I received this email from some corvette newsletter today. Warning against insurance fraud I guess...

"Let’s face it, we would all love to take our sports cars around the track and really see what it, and you, could do. One reason most of us don’t do this is because our insurance does not cover us if we push just a bit over our ability. Well don’t let this stop you anymore, as the Corvette Museum offers track insurance for a reasonable price.

Back in October of 2015, an owner of a brand-new C7 Corvette went to the drag strip to have some fun. Well, as luck would have it, about half way down the 1/4 mile track he lost control and hit the cement barrier wall almost head on.

The damage from the crash was extensive and the fact that his brand-new Vette was almost a total loss wasn’t his only problem; his Geico insurance did not cover track events, so he would now have to pay to fix or replace the Vette himself. Faced with a cost of over $60k, he decided to lie to his insurance company about where the damage happened so they would cover the loss.

Everything went well for the owner and Geico paid him $61,465 to cover the loss. This was until Geico found a video of the accident on the internet; showing what really happened. It is not clear who posted the video, but one of the camera angles is from a GoPro mounted to the owner’s own car.

After Geico confronted the owner with this video, he immediately confessed to making the false claim and was charged with insurance fraud. A plea agreement was reached where the owner avoided jail time by repaying the entire $61,465 in addition to $1,560 in court costs, and two years’ supervised probation."
Skidaddle
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2/9/2017 3:14pm
Dont count on State Farm or any other company to insure it.

And by that I mean paying a claim. Agents are fucking clueless as to what is covered and not.

Only the underwriters and adjusters know what really is and isn't covered.
Keep in mind, it is their job to find a way to deny every and all claims.

For some reason someone reviewed your policy.
Otherwise had you had a claim.....guess what...denied.
Moto520
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2/9/2017 3:33pm
So....I jacked myself up pretty good while practicing. I ran out of gas like a dumbass on the face of a 4th gear tabletop......long story short.....broken femur, shattered heel, broken thumb, dislocated shoulder, and a bad haircut. I was fully insured through a broker and answered all the questions accurately. Well...turns out I'm a professional motocross racer since I race for money. They were able to pull all of this up on the internet. $300,000 in medical bills later.....I find out insurance isn't paying. Turns out the broker that was getting me insured changed some of the information that I put on my application (more to it than that but for brevity's sake I'll leave out the details). So.....the protocol is to fight the situation with the state and file with the government agency that oversees insurance (you will see gaps in my story because my wife handles all the insurance....my terminology is a little off). During this period....it was messing with my credit as the medical companies don't mess around. The hospitals, helicopter ambulance, and all the rehab facilities wound up settling with me for about 30% of what was owed on a payment plan.

Don't come on here and be one of those assholes that says "you knew what you were doing and should have blah blah blah." I'm saying that I filled things out properly....or....my wife did. I'm not claiming to be a victim or anything like that. I'm just saying....make sure they know you are collecting money if you are racing for a purse. They will pay without too much of a question until you get into the really high dollar amount. Then...they will not pay and you will have to fight them. It's a business and they need to make money so if "A" doesn't equal "C" then "B." Just be careful and always gas up before a long Moto.
BroFoSho
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2/9/2017 3:37pm
I requested a quote on a 918 Spyder and Geico said they can't insure that vehicle... Sad
Skidaddle
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2/9/2017 3:44pm
Moto520 wrote:
So....I jacked myself up pretty good while practicing. I ran out of gas like a dumbass on the face of a 4th gear tabletop......long story short.....broken...
So....I jacked myself up pretty good while practicing. I ran out of gas like a dumbass on the face of a 4th gear tabletop......long story short.....broken femur, shattered heel, broken thumb, dislocated shoulder, and a bad haircut. I was fully insured through a broker and answered all the questions accurately. Well...turns out I'm a professional motocross racer since I race for money. They were able to pull all of this up on the internet. $300,000 in medical bills later.....I find out insurance isn't paying. Turns out the broker that was getting me insured changed some of the information that I put on my application (more to it than that but for brevity's sake I'll leave out the details). So.....the protocol is to fight the situation with the state and file with the government agency that oversees insurance (you will see gaps in my story because my wife handles all the insurance....my terminology is a little off). During this period....it was messing with my credit as the medical companies don't mess around. The hospitals, helicopter ambulance, and all the rehab facilities wound up settling with me for about 30% of what was owed on a payment plan.

Don't come on here and be one of those assholes that says "you knew what you were doing and should have blah blah blah." I'm saying that I filled things out properly....or....my wife did. I'm not claiming to be a victim or anything like that. I'm just saying....make sure they know you are collecting money if you are racing for a purse. They will pay without too much of a question until you get into the really high dollar amount. Then...they will not pay and you will have to fight them. It's a business and they need to make money so if "A" doesn't equal "C" then "B." Just be careful and always gas up before a long Moto.
Ill be that guy. Most of that is irrelevant.

Most health insurance policies exclude any kind of extreme sports.
For money or not.

Your broker or agent probably doesnt really know what is and isnt covered.
However, the adjuster that pays the bills....can be your friend or enemy.
THEY know the fine print nobody reads.

Do you think an agent gives two shits if you're covered when you have an accident? No.

This is where health insurance is a fail. Canada doesnt have these problems.
Insurances #1 job is to deny payment. They can and will aggressively always look for that one thing to deny payment.



2/9/2017 3:46pm
I have the $100 ish policy thru geico. just for theft.
hopefully I never need to see how they handle it.
captmoto
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2/9/2017 3:52pm
Skidaddle wrote:
Ill be that guy. Most of that is irrelevant. Most health insurance policies exclude any kind of extreme sports. For money or not. Your broker or...
Ill be that guy. Most of that is irrelevant.

Most health insurance policies exclude any kind of extreme sports.
For money or not.

Your broker or agent probably doesnt really know what is and isnt covered.
However, the adjuster that pays the bills....can be your friend or enemy.
THEY know the fine print nobody reads.

Do you think an agent gives two shits if you're covered when you have an accident? No.

This is where health insurance is a fail. Canada doesnt have these problems.
Insurances #1 job is to deny payment. They can and will aggressively always look for that one thing to deny payment.



My insurance covered my foot. All the way. Told them I hit some bumps (whoops) that caused the front end to come up and over breaking my foot.
In any event all I wanted was theft ins. The lender wanted theft and collision. Aside from an earlier post, I've never heard of anyone filing on a racing incident. Don't we just go home and start prepping for next week?
RyanD797
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Fantasy
2/9/2017 4:02pm
Call Flo..
Motodork
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2/9/2017 4:10pm
BroFoSho wrote:
I requested a quote on a 918 Spyder and Geico said they can't insure that vehicle... Sad
Do you mean 990 Spyder. Something else to consider, and I am not giving advice by any means. I have only been hurt on BML land since we have BLM land close to me. The point it that if you say I crashed at my brothers house you signed a release that lets the ins co sue anyone on your behalf that is liable, so they will sue your brother to pay for your medical bills even if you would never sue your brother. Just food for thought.
Dtat720
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2/9/2017 4:21pm
BroFoSho wrote:
I requested a quote on a 918 Spyder and Geico said they can't insure that vehicle... Sad
Motodork wrote:
Do you mean 990 Spyder. Something else to consider, and I am not giving advice by any means. I have only been hurt on BML land...
Do you mean 990 Spyder. Something else to consider, and I am not giving advice by any means. I have only been hurt on BML land since we have BLM land close to me. The point it that if you say I crashed at my brothers house you signed a release that lets the ins co sue anyone on your behalf that is liable, so they will sue your brother to pay for your medical bills even if you would never sue your brother. Just food for thought.
918. 887 horsepower awesomeness of hybrid power. Sweet rides. Lloyds of London will insure it all day
jhansen510
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2/9/2017 4:21pm
Deny, delay, defend. The 3 things insurance companies are good at!
JBecker 72
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2/9/2017 4:38pm
I just have comprehensive and liability to cover my bikes against theft. They don't care what it's used for if that's all you have. But collision coverage is generally a no go with any race vehicle.
Moto520
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2/9/2017 4:47pm
So.....my protocol is I've fallen off a ladder. Never admit to the fact that you got hurt at the track. Get the hell out of the facility if at all possible. In my case....I was pretty stuck. Of course the agent is just trying to make a commission and I'm sure they will fudge some shit to get you pushed through. The issue that does matter and is relevant is the change of status from amateur to professional once you take money. Doesn't matter if you are a vet rider or whatever.....once you take money you are a professional and you must disclose this or risk not being covered. Again....if you break a leg or arm they will generally cover you without question. It's when shit gets into the higher dollar amount range where it gets dicey. Some agencies will not pay and they will do their research to find a way not to pay. Amateur vs professional status is one such way. Right now.....I just pay a high rate for my insurance and I am ok with that. I'm a higher risk than joe public and, as a business, it has to make s nose to the insurance company that insures me.

They are pretty much banking on the fact that the institution that governs insurance will not act quick enough to keep your credit from falling to shit.

The people that wind up getting fucked? The doctors, nurses, and emt that deserve to get paid. The ones that save your ass wind up having to settle. 30% of what they should have gotten and they were satisfied enough to settle. They know the alternative is that the injured person will file medical bankruptcy. Medical bankruptcy is not even close to the same as regular bankruptcy. You can still get a freaking car loan/ house loan after filing medical,bankrupcy.
Moto520
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2/9/2017 4:51pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 4:54pm
On a side note.....this all happened to me in 2010. A lot of stuff has changed since then for the better. They can no longer ask medical questions or about what sports or hobbies you participate in.
My wife just filled me in to the changes. This is due to Obamacare and I'm not trying to get political rather correct my earlier post. Things are different and I was unaware
2/9/2017 5:02pm
Damn i need to ask my friend who he went through. He wrecked on pavement and scratched the bike a bit, bent the bars/exhaust. They totaled the bike, paid it off, and sold it to him for $500 i believe
TXDirt
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2/9/2017 5:08pm
This is why you really have to lie about everything. If you try and be the honest good guy you will get screwed. If you get hurt, you tell all the doctors you got hurt on a bike. Meaning bicycle. If you get hauled into ER in your gear, you got hurt on your BMX bike.
2/9/2017 5:16pm
TXDirt wrote:
This is why you really have to lie about everything. If you try and be the honest good guy you will get screwed. If you get...
This is why you really have to lie about everything. If you try and be the honest good guy you will get screwed. If you get hurt, you tell all the doctors you got hurt on a bike. Meaning bicycle. If you get hauled into ER in your gear, you got hurt on your BMX bike.
I heard that before and mentioned it to a friend on the way to the ER, then another friend told me it wouldnt matter?
Motodork
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2/9/2017 5:25pm
Dtat720 wrote:
918. 887 horsepower awesomeness of hybrid power. Sweet rides. Lloyds of London will insure it all day
Oh you meant a car, I thought we were on a motorcycle forum, hence 990 spyder, lol.
usp4u
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2/9/2017 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 6:47pm
The unfortunate part of this is that you do have to "lie". I hate that word as much as anyone, but, here is a caveat that might make it a bit more palatable...

If I were to add a natural gas heater to my garage, botch it, and blow up the structure...my insurance would pay. You see, part of insuring a person is also insuring against their stupidity. Same if I were to hit your house while DUI, they will still pay you for me being an idiot.

Some times when you get hurt, you need to remember that it happened going down the steps too quickly. If you get hurt badly enough to need an ambulance, you were trail riding for pleasure. If you get picked up at a track, it was part of your exercise routine.

*these are of course hypothetical views and anecdotal replies that I've heard around the track. *
TXDirt
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2/9/2017 5:49pm
TXDirt wrote:
This is why you really have to lie about everything. If you try and be the honest good guy you will get screwed. If you get...
This is why you really have to lie about everything. If you try and be the honest good guy you will get screwed. If you get hurt, you tell all the doctors you got hurt on a bike. Meaning bicycle. If you get hauled into ER in your gear, you got hurt on your BMX bike.
I heard that before and mentioned it to a friend on the way to the ER, then another friend told me it wouldnt matter?
You just say bike. Most hospitals are not going to ask what kind of bike. It doesn't matter. Just say bike. If you get pressed you say BMX. This doesn't necessarily mean motorcycle or bicycle so you have a lot of leeway.

Ideally if possible with an injury you can make it home and go to ER later. In that case, then you fell down the stairs. You tripped in back yard, etc.

In this day and age with social media you shouldn't post pictures of you on a motorcycle. Insurance is notorious for doing research and looking at people's social media accounts.

Cover your tracks.... that's what I would do now a days.
Motodork
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2/9/2017 5:50pm
usp4u wrote:
The unfortunate part of this is that you do have to "lie". I hate that word as much as anyone, but, here is a caveat that...
The unfortunate part of this is that you do have to "lie". I hate that word as much as anyone, but, here is a caveat that might make it a bit more palatable...

If I were to add a natural gas heater to my garage, botch it, and blow up the structure...my insurance would pay. You see, part of insuring a person is also insuring against their stupidity. Same if I were to hit your house while DUI, they will still pay you for me being an idiot.

Some times when you get hurt, you need to remember that it happened going down the steps too quickly. If you get hurt badly enough to need an ambulance, you were trail riding for pleasure. If you get picked up at a track, it was part of your exercise routine.

*these are of course hypothetical views and anecdotal replies that I've heard around the track. *
The "lie" part is hard, because most people that consider themselves honest and try to raise their kids with respect and pride will "lie" to the IRS, an insurance company or a Salesman. They will also go out of state to buy something and then won't claim it on their state tax and pay the sales tax for buying in Oregon but living in California. Just bringing up the fact that most all of these very honest people will "lie" when it serves their own interest.
2/9/2017 5:57pm
Dude, you did it to yourself. Those questions aren't on there to see how good of a boy scout you are, they're so they can weed out people who seek behavior too risky for the overall pool.

They want a form that has your signature and a box checked "no, I won't be racing this vehicle" so that if you try to file a claim in a racing incident they won't have to pay it. Insuring a dirt bike is a tacit arrangement that they'll cover fire and theft or transportation incidences and you won't ask them to buy you new radiators when you crash. You probably paid $15-20 bucks a month for this reason. If they insured against racing incidences that would be in the hundreds of dollars a month and they'd end up with an insurance pool so fucked up with adverse selection that they'd be out of business before the outdoors started.
kmp1219
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2/9/2017 6:15pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 7:07pm
.
kmp1219
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2/9/2017 6:19pm
Dude, you did it to yourself. Those questions aren't on there to see how good of a boy scout you are, they're so they can weed...
Dude, you did it to yourself. Those questions aren't on there to see how good of a boy scout you are, they're so they can weed out people who seek behavior too risky for the overall pool.

They want a form that has your signature and a box checked "no, I won't be racing this vehicle" so that if you try to file a claim in a racing incident they won't have to pay it. Insuring a dirt bike is a tacit arrangement that they'll cover fire and theft or transportation incidences and you won't ask them to buy you new radiators when you crash. You probably paid $15-20 bucks a month for this reason. If they insured against racing incidences that would be in the hundreds of dollars a month and they'd end up with an insurance pool so fucked up with adverse selection that they'd be out of business before the outdoors started.
You are 100% correct on all of this.

At the end of the day insurance--like anything else in business is designed to be profitable. The product wouldn't be sold if a company couldn't make money by betting against your exposure. Any risk, no matter the line of business will be declined if racing is involved. I can't write a life insurance policy on someone who races motocross but guess what, I've got a ton of life insurance.

You gotta look out for yourself.
DF313
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2/9/2017 6:21pm
Is the bike a 450? Apparently they no longer support big bikes... Ask Malcolm Stewart.
kmp1219
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2/9/2017 6:39pm
DF313 wrote:
Is the bike a 450? Apparently they no longer support big bikes... Ask Malcolm Stewart.
Lol

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