So I was riding a sand track and....

jeffro503
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jeffro503 10/23/2016 10:50pm
10/23/2016 10:50pm
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush everything. I'd almost replace the crank and bearings to be safe.

God damn sand can ruin everthing. Good luck with the rebuild and make sure you do it the right way.
IceMan446
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IceMan446 10/23/2016 10:52pm
10/23/2016 10:52pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush...
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush everything. I'd almost replace the crank and bearings to be safe.

God damn sand can ruin everthing. Good luck with the rebuild and make sure you do it the right way.
I'm with you, just for safety's sake.

Last thing you want is to replace the top end to the have crank go out on ya.

God forbid it happened on a jump.

Lesson learned the hard way.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/23/2016 11:12pm
10/23/2016 11:12pm
Lol
MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/23/2016 11:21pm
10/23/2016 11:21pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2016 11:23pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush...
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush everything. I'd almost replace the crank and bearings to be safe.

God damn sand can ruin everthing. Good luck with the rebuild and make sure you do it the right way.
Now your saying what said earlier that you said don't jump the gun.

If you found sand in the cylinder, it is in your crank. No ifs, and or butts. Your cylinder doesn't look terrible. Hone marks look like scratches, just in a crossed diagonal pattern. To test cylinder wear, get a new ring and use a feeler gauge to check rig gap.

Your "tranny" and crank are not connected. Unless you poured sand into the filler cap, there is no sand in your transmission. They are not connected.

Don't know your money situation, but I would at least split the cases. If you find any sand, replace it, and bearings. You can try flushing if you want, but you'll be splitting cases again in a couple weeks at best cause you will never flush the sand out of the lower rod bearing. You will also need new crank bearings and seals.

Again, if you find any sand inside the cylinder, at this point it is not worth it to risk it. Buy a new crank, crank bearings, seals and top end, and be done with it and not risk damage to your cases, cylinder or head.

The Shop

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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/23/2016 11:26pm
10/23/2016 11:26pm
You actually only live 5 hours from me, if you have to have a shop do it and they want to charge you an arm and a leg, bring it to me and I'll do it free of charge. It fact we will be racing in western Indiana first week of November.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/23/2016 11:48pm
10/23/2016 11:48pm
MotoX85 wrote:
You actually only live 5 hours from me, if you have to have a shop do it and they want to charge you an arm and...
You actually only live 5 hours from me, if you have to have a shop do it and they want to charge you an arm and a leg, bring it to me and I'll do it free of charge. It fact we will be racing in western Indiana first week of November.
Thanks for the knowledge. I have never split a case before so I'll have to do my homework onto how to properly do it. I have a mechanic but I'm somewhat skeptical at this point.... (as you can tell). Would a crank bearing and seals kit with a new top end do the trick or is a new crank pretty necessary in the process? Only reason I ask is being money conscious but if it's going to save me in the end ill do whatever is suggested. As for free of charge work I really appreciate that but it's my mistake
jeffro503
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jeffro503 10/24/2016 1:27am
10/24/2016 1:27am
jeffro503 wrote:
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush...
Pressure washing won't get the sand in the cylinder. It got sucked in while running. Best to yard the tranny , split the cases and flush everything. I'd almost replace the crank and bearings to be safe.

God damn sand can ruin everthing. Good luck with the rebuild and make sure you do it the right way.
MotoX85 wrote:
Now your saying what said earlier that you said don't jump the gun. If you found sand in the cylinder, it is in your crank. No...
Now your saying what said earlier that you said don't jump the gun.

If you found sand in the cylinder, it is in your crank. No ifs, and or butts. Your cylinder doesn't look terrible. Hone marks look like scratches, just in a crossed diagonal pattern. To test cylinder wear, get a new ring and use a feeler gauge to check rig gap.

Your "tranny" and crank are not connected. Unless you poured sand into the filler cap, there is no sand in your transmission. They are not connected.

Don't know your money situation, but I would at least split the cases. If you find any sand, replace it, and bearings. You can try flushing if you want, but you'll be splitting cases again in a couple weeks at best cause you will never flush the sand out of the lower rod bearing. You will also need new crank bearings and seals.

Again, if you find any sand inside the cylinder, at this point it is not worth it to risk it. Buy a new crank, crank bearings, seals and top end, and be done with it and not risk damage to your cases, cylinder or head.
Don't be an asshole. I said " don't go overboard " because it was mentioned that that the sand only made it to the slide. It wasn't until " after " he mentioned it made it past the reeds is when i said yard the tranny. You aren't the only one here that knows how to work on motors here slick...so take a step back.
Pirate421
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Pirate421 10/24/2016 5:28am
10/24/2016 5:28am
My buddy had the same thing happen he forgot to tighten the carb cap screws after adjusted his needle clip position. Sand got in the carb and he rode it for an hour or two. It started making a hell of a "whirring" and whistling noise. The crank bearings were smoked, she started smoking and then locked up in the pits. I'd split it and flush the bottoms end and probably replace bearings and seals. Easier to fix now then when everything goes sooner or later.
dmm698
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dmm698 10/24/2016 6:45am
10/24/2016 6:45am
Had basically a brand new YZ250, apparently the filter was not up to the job for southwick because when i got home and took it off to throw the cover on and wash the bike, the intake boot was full of sand. Pulled the carb, full of sand. Pulled the reed block, covered in sand. Pulled the head, piston had sand stuck to the dome. Pulled the cylinder, could visibly see the sand plugging the main bearing oil feeders. Big end rod bearing full of sand. I threw a complete crank + main bearings and piston in it, cleaned everything really well, bike has been A-ok. Hardest part is making sure you get it really clean, sand is easy to leave behind.

On a side note, I couldnt believe the cylinder was ok.
colintrax
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colintrax 10/24/2016 8:02am
10/24/2016 8:02am
I disagree with having to replace the crank already, I've had success with flushing the bottom end. As long as everything spins freely with no vertical play, it's not ruined yet. If sand is in the cylinder, it did go past the crankshaft. However that's not an automatic death sentance.
There's certainly no harm in replacing more just to be safe. Im just a certified cheap ass who tries to not throw parts at stuff.
Btw you can rebuild crankshafts instead of replacing them, but not every mechanic can rebuild one. All that needs replacing is the connecting rod, big end bearing, pin, and thrust washers.
mx317
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mx317 10/24/2016 9:03am
10/24/2016 9:03am
Would not affect transmission.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/24/2016 9:39am
10/24/2016 9:39am
colintrax wrote:
I disagree with having to replace the crank already, I've had success with flushing the bottom end. As long as everything spins freely with no vertical...
I disagree with having to replace the crank already, I've had success with flushing the bottom end. As long as everything spins freely with no vertical play, it's not ruined yet. If sand is in the cylinder, it did go past the crankshaft. However that's not an automatic death sentance.
There's certainly no harm in replacing more just to be safe. Im just a certified cheap ass who tries to not throw parts at stuff.
Btw you can rebuild crankshafts instead of replacing them, but not every mechanic can rebuild one. All that needs replacing is the connecting rod, big end bearing, pin, and thrust washers.
Thanks, hopefully she still has a little life left. I'm going to split the cases and take a look at everything this weekend just for peace of mind and cleaning purposes to get all the sand removed (hopefully there isn't a lot). While in there I'm going to replace the main bearings, seals, and crank bearings... I'm assuming it's a good idea since I'll be that deep into it already. I'll post pictures of the cylinder and piston in the process. Hopefully the piston doesn't have heavy scoring but if so I'll get a new top end and hone. If the crank seems OK with the new bearings and visual inspection it will probably stay since I don't have the extra 475 to throw at a crank that may or may not be clapped. The cap wasn't completely off... just one of the bolts came loose so it was slightly moved so I don't think there is a ton of sand in there... but sand is sand.. any tips for a cleaning solvent when I split the cases?
colintrax
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colintrax 10/24/2016 9:49am
10/24/2016 9:49am
Brake cleaner, or gas make good cleaners. Judging by the cylinder you didn't injest a ton of sand, so I think you'll be ok. Just be 100% sure the bearing spins smoothly.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/24/2016 10:16am
10/24/2016 10:16am
I'm sure this is a silly question but it doesn't hurt to ask.... Is there any tips/tricks/tools you guys use aside from buying a case splitter to get the engine divided? Will I need and special tools etc? It's my first time doing it but I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I should be okay on a small bore engine. I read somewhere about a guy using a dead blow and some other contraption without having to fork out the $190 for the actual case splitter. And once I get to the crank is there anything tricky about putting new bearings in it? All your guys advice is kick ass... all this for one loose 6mm bolt Angry
Rcampbell99
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Rcampbell99 10/24/2016 11:11am
10/24/2016 11:11am
MotoX85 wrote:
You'll need a new engine, be prepared.
jeffro503 wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Those two 2 strokes are pretty resilient and can hold up to a lot of abuse. Btw , might wanna pull...
I wouldn't go that far. Those two 2 strokes are pretty resilient and can hold up to a lot of abuse. Btw , might wanna pull the head off and check things out as well if you see anything near the reeds.
MotoX85 wrote:
35 years as a mechanic says....new motor, from the crank up.
Jesus.... Ive sucked sand through a filter that tore before and been fine for 50 hours on that top/bottom end. rebuilt it, split cases to be safe and there was no problems. Doom and gloomers.... funny stuff.
Rcampbell99
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Rcampbell99 10/24/2016 11:18am
10/24/2016 11:18am
these people are worst case scenario. You could easily get away with dumping gas/ Premix in your bottom end and turning it upside down and repeating this a bunch of times to get all the sand (which there is very little from the looks of it) out of your bottom end. Your talking to mechanics that make their bread by saying the right things to justify more work and more money out of your pocket. But this is vital, everyone is a pro racer/mechanic/ and industry insider. Good luck.
kzizok
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kzizok 10/24/2016 11:30am
10/24/2016 11:30am
Rcambell99,

True story.

Everything is not catastrophic and the end of the world.
500guy
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500guy 10/24/2016 11:53am
10/24/2016 11:53am
Rcampbell99 wrote:
these people are worst case scenario. You could easily get away with dumping gas/ Premix in your bottom end and turning it upside down and repeating...
these people are worst case scenario. You could easily get away with dumping gas/ Premix in your bottom end and turning it upside down and repeating this a bunch of times to get all the sand (which there is very little from the looks of it) out of your bottom end. Your talking to mechanics that make their bread by saying the right things to justify more work and more money out of your pocket. But this is vital, everyone is a pro racer/mechanic/ and industry insider. Good luck.
Or you might be talking to people that actually know something, every mechanic is not out to fuck everyone.

The professional opinion is if you got dirt in the top, it's in the bottom too.

Can He flush it out and run it ? hell yes ! is it the right thing to do ? No.

Pit Row

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colintrax
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colintrax 10/24/2016 12:09pm
10/24/2016 12:09pm
Rcampbell99 wrote:
these people are worst case scenario. You could easily get away with dumping gas/ Premix in your bottom end and turning it upside down and repeating...
these people are worst case scenario. You could easily get away with dumping gas/ Premix in your bottom end and turning it upside down and repeating this a bunch of times to get all the sand (which there is very little from the looks of it) out of your bottom end. Your talking to mechanics that make their bread by saying the right things to justify more work and more money out of your pocket. But this is vital, everyone is a pro racer/mechanic/ and industry insider. Good luck.
Just as an fyi, I'm not a mechanic. I work on cars on the side, but my real job is in a tissue lab.
twotwosix
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twotwosix 10/24/2016 12:22pm
10/24/2016 12:22pm
This may seem obvious, but I'll post it anyhow. Make sure you change your oil if you don't end up in the bottom end.
mx317
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mx317 10/24/2016 1:07pm
10/24/2016 1:07pm
twotwosix wrote:
This may seem obvious, but I'll post it anyhow. Make sure you change your oil if you don't end up in the bottom end.
It's never a bad idea to change the oil, but the sand won't reach where the oil is on a two-stroke.
mx317
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mx317 10/24/2016 2:09pm
10/24/2016 2:09pm
Andy_White wrote:
I'm sure this is a silly question but it doesn't hurt to ask.... Is there any tips/tricks/tools you guys use aside from buying a case splitter...
I'm sure this is a silly question but it doesn't hurt to ask.... Is there any tips/tricks/tools you guys use aside from buying a case splitter to get the engine divided? Will I need and special tools etc? It's my first time doing it but I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I should be okay on a small bore engine. I read somewhere about a guy using a dead blow and some other contraption without having to fork out the $190 for the actual case splitter. And once I get to the crank is there anything tricky about putting new bearings in it? All your guys advice is kick ass... all this for one loose 6mm bolt Angry


Rocky Mtn cycles has one for $69
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/24/2016 2:28pm
10/24/2016 2:28pm
Andy_White wrote:
I'm sure this is a silly question but it doesn't hurt to ask.... Is there any tips/tricks/tools you guys use aside from buying a case splitter...
I'm sure this is a silly question but it doesn't hurt to ask.... Is there any tips/tricks/tools you guys use aside from buying a case splitter to get the engine divided? Will I need and special tools etc? It's my first time doing it but I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I should be okay on a small bore engine. I read somewhere about a guy using a dead blow and some other contraption without having to fork out the $190 for the actual case splitter. And once I get to the crank is there anything tricky about putting new bearings in it? All your guys advice is kick ass... all this for one loose 6mm bolt Angry
mx317 wrote:
[img]https://images.rockymountainatvmc.com/images/prod/400/t/tus_07_cra_cas_spl.jpg[/img] Rocky Mtn cycles has one for $69


Rocky Mtn cycles has one for $69
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck or two...but if it's a real pain to split without it then I will gladly purchase one!
Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 10/24/2016 2:32pm
10/24/2016 2:32pm
Andy_White wrote:
Just adds to the list of issues I've had with the bike since I bought it. I had the carbs done since I came off a...
Just adds to the list of issues I've had with the bike since I bought it. I had the carbs done since I came off a four stroke and I know the tmx carbs are super finicky. It doesn't feel super grainylated past the slide but I will take the carb completely off and clean it throughly tomorrow.
Whoever worked on it fucked up. Dont blame the bike.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/24/2016 2:39pm
10/24/2016 2:39pm
Andy_White wrote:
Just adds to the list of issues I've had with the bike since I bought it. I had the carbs done since I came off a...
Just adds to the list of issues I've had with the bike since I bought it. I had the carbs done since I came off a four stroke and I know the tmx carbs are super finicky. It doesn't feel super grainylated past the slide but I will take the carb completely off and clean it throughly tomorrow.
Skidaddle wrote:
Whoever worked on it fucked up. Dont blame the bike.
I mean I blame ktm for the shitty stock jetting and the money I had to put into it to get the bike set up right since it didn't perform like it should have according to the manual. But thanks for the input bud even though it doesn't really relate the the question I'm asking Wink
Markopolo400
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Markopolo400 10/24/2016 2:43pm
10/24/2016 2:43pm
Get the case splitter, get a flywheel puller, and get a clutch holding tool. A crank puller is optional but I recommend it.

You will say many swear words, have bloody knuckles, and probably damaged parts if you dont.

Also, the case splitter works to push the crank out of the 2nd case half as well (After they are split).
kxfracer108
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kxfracer108 10/24/2016 2:45pm
10/24/2016 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2016 2:47pm
Andy_White wrote:
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck...
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck or two...but if it's a real pain to split without it then I will gladly purchase one!
I would definitely spend the $69 to buy the case splitter. Tusk makes great tools for the weekend warrior mechanic. I have gotten many cases apart with a good dead blow, but it is a pain in the ass, and can take you a while, and it can get really fun when the transmission falls out and a washer or two rolls under the bench! With the case splitter, it comes apart slowly and you can really control the process.

I don't recommend ignoring the sand at all, but I did have a screw back out from a Vortex Reed (and yes Vortex went way above and beyond getting me new reeds, a cage, and new screws, when I only asked for a screw.) The screw bounced around in the bottom end a lot, and finally made it through a port and bounced around in the top end probably 50 times and scored the cylinder really badly, took a few chunks out of my piston and head, and cracked the edge of my exhaust port. Funny thing is it tamed my bike down a little, and I actually liked it more in the woods with a little less power. I probably had 20 hours on the bike after the screw went through it and it still had good compression and power.

Pirate421
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Pirate421 10/24/2016 2:47pm
10/24/2016 2:47pm
Andy_White wrote:
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck...
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck or two...but if it's a real pain to split without it then I will gladly purchase one!
I have learned over the years working on bikes that 9/10 it's better to spend the money up front for the tools. It saves time, headache and usually money in the long run. A buddy of mine used to buy all the tools like case splitters and specialty suspension tools and then "rent" them out to good friends. $10-$15 bucks here and there or a case of beer if that's what you're into and you'll almost make your money back. Another way to look at it is $69 for unlimited case splitting and bottom ends in the future or spend $80 an hour for a shop mechanic. I used to always look for cheaper ways to do stuff, sometimes the tools aren't necessary but this time I would just buy the right tool. Also I've heard diesel is a better option for flushing bottom ends since it's more oily than gas.
Andy_White
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Andy_White 10/24/2016 3:12pm
10/24/2016 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2016 3:13pm
Andy_White wrote:
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck...
Awesome! Is spending the money on a case splittler ultimately worth it? Not being a smartass in the least bit! Just trying so save a buck or two...but if it's a real pain to split without it then I will gladly purchase one!
Pirate421 wrote:
I have learned over the years working on bikes that 9/10 it's better to spend the money up front for the tools. It saves time, headache...
I have learned over the years working on bikes that 9/10 it's better to spend the money up front for the tools. It saves time, headache and usually money in the long run. A buddy of mine used to buy all the tools like case splitters and specialty suspension tools and then "rent" them out to good friends. $10-$15 bucks here and there or a case of beer if that's what you're into and you'll almost make your money back. Another way to look at it is $69 for unlimited case splitting and bottom ends in the future or spend $80 an hour for a shop mechanic. I used to always look for cheaper ways to do stuff, sometimes the tools aren't necessary but this time I would just buy the right tool. Also I've heard diesel is a better option for flushing bottom ends since it's more oily than gas.
Yeah good point guys.. especially since I'm nervous about splitting the case in the first place being it's the first time I've done it. Looks like I'll be investing in bearings seals gaskets and a case splitter (hopefully the top end is clean enough) and maybe a hone. I have a pretty clean workspace so it should go smoothly. I'm just searching for the best bearings and seals to buy. Hot rods are actually decently affordable... any input to my shopping list would be appreciated!
colintrax
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colintrax 10/24/2016 3:25pm
10/24/2016 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2016 3:26pm
Go with pro-x or OEM.

If it helps you swallow the cost of the case splitter, it can be used to pull the harmonic balancer pulley on car engines as well.
Also, don't forget the flywheel puller.

Post a reply to: So I was riding a sand track and....