Webb vs Herlings

PressPassP
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9/5/2016 3:22am
Lucifa. wrote:
I doubt you were there. How could this Hearlings fella get humbled? Did he and Webb not score a moto each? He's gotta be happy about...
I doubt you were there. How could this Hearlings fella get humbled? Did he and Webb not score a moto each? He's gotta be happy about that. I know I would. Webb would be happy as well.

This USA vs Euroland stuff is getting old and makes you look silly. Really, and I mean really, go back and read your posts this past 24 hours. You'll see what the rest of us see.

Cheers
PressPassP wrote:
Indeed,this whole thread was a debate on who'd win,they both were clearly better in a Moto each and yet we get his same crap. I saw...
Indeed,this whole thread was a debate on who'd win,they both were clearly better in a Moto each and yet we get his same crap.

I saw Herlings drop the hammer in the 1st and was gone,he showed his class and did have the fastest time of the day.
Next I saw Webb come round in 7th on the 1st lap and lay down lap after fastest lap of the race to scorch to an incredible win,no one was going to deny him in that one,he said himself it was the best ride of his life.

But to slag off Herlings like that is a joke,just back from injury he came half way across the world to take on the AMA champ on a man made track in his hometown,i'm sure he'd be happy with how he did.

Two of the best riders ion the world,proven on racing both sides of the pond.
cali11 wrote:
They said he was 6th on lap 3. So he only made 1 spot up in 2 laps?
Yes he had an awesome battle on those first few laps with Seewer, Covington and fast starting Bernadini on the TM which would've put him 6th,that group were behind the leaders
RG1
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9/5/2016 3:23am
Prntscrn wrote:
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that...
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that long for me
Flying Thursday probably wasn't ideal. But if they wanted to get any riding in between Assen and Charlotte it was difficult to fly any earlier. Herlings certainly needed the bike time having not been back long
Flip109
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9/5/2016 3:29am
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it...
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it comes down to the track. We all saw how far ahead Nelson and McElrath were round Glen Helen last yr and in all likelihood I expect a similar beating this year from Austin (if he's racing). But on a real GP track I think we'd see the opposite. A very good rider can of course reverse the trend and have a standout day, but in general the results support the above analysis. This is what's a little frustrating about some of the fans on both sides of this debate (and to a certain extent the media) who always go too far - this continual jumping from one extreme to the other based on whoever came out on top in the most recent GP vs AMA encounter.
Well said. Location, timing, and the type of track plays a huge roll in the outcome.
agn5009
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9/5/2016 3:36am
agn5009 wrote:
The top 3 all rode amazingly well. But, not many people thought Cooper would beat Jeffrey, myself included. I honestly thought Jeffrey would win by about...
The top 3 all rode amazingly well. But, not many people thought Cooper would beat Jeffrey, myself included. I honestly thought Jeffrey would win by about 10 seconds. I am so happy I was wrong. I think what we learned is they are both phoenominal. Either one of those two could win at any given time. There is a reason why they are both the champions of their respective series. I wish we could see a rematch next week in GH, but Cooper won't be there. I really hope Forkner is racing it, unfortunately I don't think many top AMA guys will be there.
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it...
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it comes down to the track. We all saw how far ahead Nelson and McElrath were round Glen Helen last yr and in all likelihood I expect a similar beating this year from Austin (if he's racing). But on a real GP track I think we'd see the opposite. A very good rider can of course reverse the trend and have a standout day, but in general the results support the above analysis. This is what's a little frustrating about some of the fans on both sides of this debate (and to a certain extent the media) who always go too far - this continual jumping from one extreme to the other based on whoever came out on top in the most recent GP vs AMA encounter.
The only thing I will disagree with you is this. I don't believe the current MX2 class is deep enough to beat the top 5 AMA 250 riders. I honestly believe the AMA 250 guys would beat everyone in MX2 except Herlings anywhere in the world except maybe the sand tracks. If you put Webb, Jmart, Forkner, AMart and Savatgy anywhere in the world against Herlings I don't think they'd be 30 seconds to a minute behind him like most of the MX2 guys are. Excluding Lommel and Assen of course.

Prado gives me hope. I really enjoy watching Seewer ride. Antsie is fantastic when Herlings is not there. But other than that, there's not much depth. Now MX1, that's totally different. The depth there is unreal.

The Shop

Prntscrn
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9/5/2016 3:44am
agn5009 wrote:
The only thing I will disagree with you is this. I don't believe the current MX2 class is deep enough to beat the top 5 AMA...
The only thing I will disagree with you is this. I don't believe the current MX2 class is deep enough to beat the top 5 AMA 250 riders. I honestly believe the AMA 250 guys would beat everyone in MX2 except Herlings anywhere in the world except maybe the sand tracks. If you put Webb, Jmart, Forkner, AMart and Savatgy anywhere in the world against Herlings I don't think they'd be 30 seconds to a minute behind him like most of the MX2 guys are. Excluding Lommel and Assen of course.

Prado gives me hope. I really enjoy watching Seewer ride. Antsie is fantastic when Herlings is not there. But other than that, there's not much depth. Now MX1, that's totally different. The depth there is unreal.
I think Ferrandis would have the pace to run with the likes of Savatgy, Amart etc. But other than that I agree. MX2 class is weak
jamma10
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9/5/2016 4:00am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2016 4:06am
I also agree that the US250 class is more competitive, but like Glen Helen last year there are currently a number of absent riders in MX2 which gives the impression that the class is even weaker than it is.

None would have beaten Webb or Forkner this weekend but Ferrandis, Jonass, Tonkov, Petrov, Pootjes, Sterry, Mewse, Graulus, Brylyakov, Rauchenecker, Justs, Watson etc are all decent riders and all would normally command positions inside the top 15.

What we're left with at the moment is Herlings, Seewer, Paturel, Anstie, Bernadini, Covington and a sprinkling of token EMX riders who step up to race occasional GPs.
9/5/2016 4:11am
agn5009 wrote:
The only thing I will disagree with you is this. I don't believe the current MX2 class is deep enough to beat the top 5 AMA...
The only thing I will disagree with you is this. I don't believe the current MX2 class is deep enough to beat the top 5 AMA 250 riders. I honestly believe the AMA 250 guys would beat everyone in MX2 except Herlings anywhere in the world except maybe the sand tracks. If you put Webb, Jmart, Forkner, AMart and Savatgy anywhere in the world against Herlings I don't think they'd be 30 seconds to a minute behind him like most of the MX2 guys are. Excluding Lommel and Assen of course.

Prado gives me hope. I really enjoy watching Seewer ride. Antsie is fantastic when Herlings is not there. But other than that, there's not much depth. Now MX1, that's totally different. The depth there is unreal.
Fair point, AMA 250s are loaded with depth pretty much every season. Though as Jamma said above I think the issue in MX2 has been particularly exacerbated with injuries. AMA 450s have also been hit with some big names on the sidelines this year.
kongols
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9/5/2016 4:17am
kongols wrote:
Think about it. He was racing at 4.00 am by his standards. No easy task.
Prntscrn wrote:
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that...
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that long for me
Actually it does. I was a wreck for three days when I went there.
mx836
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9/5/2016 4:18am
ZRacer... Are you a man of your word? Evil
PayPal- carlinojoe@yahoo.com
Still no word from ZRacer... Man makes a bet, but doesn't hold onto his end of the deal...
disbanded wrote:
He's busy racing his quad online
Thank you. I literally laughed out loud.
Prntscrn
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9/5/2016 4:29am
kongols wrote:
Think about it. He was racing at 4.00 am by his standards. No easy task.
Prntscrn wrote:
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that...
They made the decision to fly in on thursday so can't really use that as an excuse imo. But it makes no sense to wait that long for me
kongols wrote:
Actually it does. I was a wreck for three days when I went there.
I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect but they made the decision to fly over as late as possible themselves, which I think they always do for some reason when they're going to a different continent? But we're all different, when I'm flying to the US I have no problems whatsoever, wake up early first morning but that's it, then I'm good to go. Guess there is quite a different being on vacation and race professional the next day though Laughing Flying back to Europe is another story though.
TMV
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9/5/2016 5:52am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2016 5:54am
YamahaJT1 wrote:
Webb on 450 is a proven commodity... After GH/MXdN, Mr. Webb tracked down Febvre across the globe. He and Canard rolled 461's posterior in Japan National...
Webb on 450 is a proven commodity...

After GH/MXdN, Mr. Webb tracked down Febvre across the globe. He and Canard rolled 461's posterior in Japan National in front of Japanese factory reps. No rider had anything to lose. Webb factory Ride? They know.

France/Lille SX: Folks were posting that Febvre didn't want to get hurt and was just goon riding. Weston won, IIRC. Webb did rather well.

Aussie SX last year... Guest Webb WON.

I'd be very wary about fucking with Webb on a 450 were I Herlings. Tomac/Roczen/TG/RD are about the only folks that will consistently whip Webb on a 450 based only on age and experience.

Webb? He got this.
Get your facts straight mate.

Febvre got beat in Japan only because they were whoops and I mean real sx whoops in this mx tracks and he didn't know how to handle them. That's were both Coop and Canard were making ground on him.

Then after Japan, ther was Lilles. Febvre wasn't riding safe in Lilles, he was learning. He had only a week or two of SX training the weeks before Lilles. It was the second time he entered an SX race in his life and the first time was several years ago. All guys who were there said he kept improving all week end.

Concerning Herlings, I've never seen him ride so bad at the end of the second moto. He was riding like he was tired. So many mistakes, his best time was 1.5 sec slower than in the first moto, and riding while watching back is never a good sign especially when Cooper is coming.

At the beginning of the race, I saw that Coop was 19th then quickly 7th at the end of the first turn I was thinking well from what we've learned in the first moto, Coop he's gonna come in third, Herlings will wait then drop 1.48-49's lap times like in the first moto. I couldn't imagine Coop coming back so strong (even if he did it several times this season) and Jeffrey droping the anchor that way. A bit of a shocker to me to be honest.

And of course, there was Forkner...
Original 44
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9/5/2016 5:55am
RG1 wrote:
What? I just said I didn't think the track was very good. It was the same for everyone, but it wasn't good. All credit to Webb...
What? I just said I didn't think the track was very good. It was the same for everyone, but it wasn't good.

All credit to Webb, he's one of the few guys that actually steps up to the challenge whenever this type of race comes up, and he always puts in a performance. I'm sure you enjoyed seeing Herlings get 'humbled', just as much as I enjoyed seeing him win the first moto and the title.
I think for some of us on here it was good to see some of the Herlings fans get humbled.

RG1, truthfully it was just great to see a World Champ, National Champ and the Future go at it. Wish there was more races were they would race against each other. Love to see the best of the best race for pride and go at it.
RG1
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9/5/2016 6:35am
RG1 wrote:
What? I just said I didn't think the track was very good. It was the same for everyone, but it wasn't good. All credit to Webb...
What? I just said I didn't think the track was very good. It was the same for everyone, but it wasn't good.

All credit to Webb, he's one of the few guys that actually steps up to the challenge whenever this type of race comes up, and he always puts in a performance. I'm sure you enjoyed seeing Herlings get 'humbled', just as much as I enjoyed seeing him win the first moto and the title.
I think for some of us on here it was good to see some of the Herlings fans get humbled. RG1, truthfully it was just great...
I think for some of us on here it was good to see some of the Herlings fans get humbled.

RG1, truthfully it was just great to see a World Champ, National Champ and the Future go at it. Wish there was more races were they would race against each other. Love to see the best of the best race for pride and go at it.
I get that. I'm obviously a big Herlings fan, but I wasn't one of those who said that Herlings would smoke everyone prior to the race because I knew that it would be incredibly difficult for him to do so. I've not always been a fan of Webb, but I gain more and more respect for him with every season, because he is a racer in every sense of the word. Every time a race like this comes along, he steps up to race it and he races to win, which is not something we see all that often anymore. Forkner has impressed me a lot the second half of the season too
9/5/2016 6:49am
This whole Euro vs USA thing seems to get worse every f*cking year. Why can't we just enjoy our beautifull sport?
MX4EVR
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9/5/2016 6:53am
Lol!!!
Webb crushed!!! Smile
Bonanza69
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9/5/2016 7:14am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2016 7:16am
A lot of excuses for Herlings,jet lag,not 100% fit and so on and so forth.We need to stop that shit.Herlings won one race and was beat in the second.It was only one GP.Forkner,Webb and Herlings rode at the same level,i give a shit who won,it was exciting to see theses riders race in the same event.It would be even better to see them competing in one championship to find out who's the real champ without making all thinkable excuses
Enjoy the races next weekend and stop crying.
mx836
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9/5/2016 8:12am
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service. Probably a good thing, but I'm sure I missed a few melt downs from the anti-American Dick Loots. That alone makes me sad. The racing was good. Herlings had a lot stacked against him, but the way Webb came from the back to get the win, I'm not sure there was any stopping him.
9/5/2016 12:10pm
OK. I'm a believer in Webb, now. All season, I've been thinking that this year's crop of 250 riders just wasn't up to the quality of the last few. Riders like Tomac, Roczen, Barcia, Bagget, and then Musquin... I thought were ALL faster than this year's 250 riders. Not any more. Webb has made me a believer. Not just in Webb, but also in JMart, AMart, Savatgy, and Forkner. Webb wasn't the fastest everywhere. He got beat by these guys here and there. So they're just a tick or two slower overall.

As for Herlings... I don't like him. I think he's a cocky sandbagger. But I was willing to give the devil his due. He's fast, and I thought that he'd smoke all our 250 guys with ease. Let's say that I'm quite pleased with the results.

And then there's Forkner. I believe that Webb will be instantly competitive in 450's next year.* But I think EVERYBODY is going to be in trouble once Forkner gets there. To all the 250 guys who thought they had a chance after this year's graduates moved up to 450's... sorry. Forkner is going to smoke the 250 class next year. I believe he's going to smoke it in a way that hasn't been done in years.

* I think Webb's biggest problem is going to be his slow starts, going up against Roczen's blazing opening laps. Once Coop hits hit groove about halfway through the moto, KR's going to be 15-20 seconds up.

But then again, I could be wrong. I thought that Baggett would be as fast as anyone on a 450, too. He might be if he could ever stay healthy long enough.
9/5/2016 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/5/2016 2:52pm
mx836 wrote:
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service...
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service. Probably a good thing, but I'm sure I missed a few melt downs from the anti-American Dick Loots. That alone makes me sad. The racing was good. Herlings had a lot stacked against him, but the way Webb came from the back to get the win, I'm not sure there was any stopping him.
still crying buddy ? im sorry that makes me sad

or are you still sad about this ? youre award last week ...

You just won bullshitter award of the year. Vital should send you a t-shirt too


im not anti american .. if i am in youre standards , 80% of this forum is anti euro
just dont like people getting over excited and taking things out of contest to make it look like it was unreal or so ... stick to facts .You only read what you want to hear , not my problem

Herlings won first Moto , Webb won second moto .....overall Webb was the fastest at charlotte


the one saying Webb came from dead last Laughing
stats showed he was 7th in lap 1 .....

the one saying Webb smoked Herlings ....
so who smoked Webb in first moto ?


see what i mean , there was only 1 dickey and it wasnt me

i said Webb was the fastest in Charlotte , no doubt and Forkner was awesome and did better as i expected
i never said Herlings would smoke them , as he said championship came first ...
i expected better result in second moto , but Forkner and Webb just had better speed
Tomac was the only one in my opinion who smoked em

see crybaby , no excuses here .......

...

move on , there is a great race coming up next week
Jimmy_Sloan
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9/5/2016 2:31pm
mx836 wrote:
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service...
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service. Probably a good thing, but I'm sure I missed a few melt downs from the anti-American Dick Loots. That alone makes me sad. The racing was good. Herlings had a lot stacked against him, but the way Webb came from the back to get the win, I'm not sure there was any stopping him.
still crying buddy ? im sorry that makes me sad or are you still sad about this ? youre award last week ... You just won...
still crying buddy ? im sorry that makes me sad

or are you still sad about this ? youre award last week ...

You just won bullshitter award of the year. Vital should send you a t-shirt too


im not anti american .. if i am in youre standards , 80% of this forum is anti euro
just dont like people getting over excited and taking things out of contest to make it look like it was unreal or so ... stick to facts .You only read what you want to hear , not my problem

Herlings won first Moto , Webb won second moto .....overall Webb was the fastest at charlotte


the one saying Webb came from dead last Laughing
stats showed he was 7th in lap 1 .....

the one saying Webb smoked Herlings ....
so who smoked Webb in first moto ?


see what i mean , there was only 1 dickey and it wasnt me

i said Webb was the fastest in Charlotte , no doubt and Forkner was awesome and did better as i expected
i never said Herlings would smoke them , as he said championship came first ...
i expected better result in second moto , but Forkner and Webb just had better speed
Tomac was the only one in my opinion who smoked em

see crybaby , no excuses here .......

...

move on , there is a great race coming up next week
80%? Did you take a poll? And yes, Webb was dead last at the start, he passed riders quickly to get to 7th.
Jimmy_Sloan
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9/5/2016 2:33pm
This whole Euro vs USA thing seems to get worse every f*cking year. Why can't we just enjoy our beautifull sport?
Because it's fun being a fan and cheering for your side of the pond, Mr. PC. Smile
mx836
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9/5/2016 3:47pm
mx836 wrote:
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service...
I was gone all weekend racing myself so didn't get to come on here and read all the dumb comments since I had no cell service. Probably a good thing, but I'm sure I missed a few melt downs from the anti-American Dick Loots. That alone makes me sad. The racing was good. Herlings had a lot stacked against him, but the way Webb came from the back to get the win, I'm not sure there was any stopping him.
still crying buddy ? im sorry that makes me sad or are you still sad about this ? youre award last week ... You just won...
still crying buddy ? im sorry that makes me sad

or are you still sad about this ? youre award last week ...

You just won bullshitter award of the year. Vital should send you a t-shirt too


im not anti american .. if i am in youre standards , 80% of this forum is anti euro
just dont like people getting over excited and taking things out of contest to make it look like it was unreal or so ... stick to facts .You only read what you want to hear , not my problem

Herlings won first Moto , Webb won second moto .....overall Webb was the fastest at charlotte


the one saying Webb came from dead last Laughing
stats showed he was 7th in lap 1 .....

the one saying Webb smoked Herlings ....
so who smoked Webb in first moto ?


see what i mean , there was only 1 dickey and it wasnt me

i said Webb was the fastest in Charlotte , no doubt and Forkner was awesome and did better as i expected
i never said Herlings would smoke them , as he said championship came first ...
i expected better result in second moto , but Forkner and Webb just had better speed
Tomac was the only one in my opinion who smoked em

see crybaby , no excuses here .......

...

move on , there is a great race coming up next week
Like shooting fish in a barrel. Laughing
mxfan75
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9/5/2016 3:54pm
agn5009 wrote:
The top 3 all rode amazingly well. But, not many people thought Cooper would beat Jeffrey, myself included. I honestly thought Jeffrey would win by about...
The top 3 all rode amazingly well. But, not many people thought Cooper would beat Jeffrey, myself included. I honestly thought Jeffrey would win by about 10 seconds. I am so happy I was wrong. I think what we learned is they are both phoenominal. Either one of those two could win at any given time. There is a reason why they are both the champions of their respective series. I wish we could see a rematch next week in GH, but Cooper won't be there. I really hope Forkner is racing it, unfortunately I don't think many top AMA guys will be there.
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it...
I agree, though I picked Cooper for the win, mostly due to the location. I think at this level, with riders this good, most of it comes down to the track. We all saw how far ahead Nelson and McElrath were round Glen Helen last yr and in all likelihood I expect a similar beating this year from Austin (if he's racing). But on a real GP track I think we'd see the opposite. A very good rider can of course reverse the trend and have a standout day, but in general the results support the above analysis. This is what's a little frustrating about some of the fans on both sides of this debate (and to a certain extent the media) who always go too far - this continual jumping from one extreme to the other based on whoever came out on top in the most recent GP vs AMA encounter.
X 2
9/5/2016 7:30pm
Not sure if it has already been mentioned. I am no means a Herlings fan. But to be beat through fitness in the 2nd moto wasn't a surprise. He has been injured and having a collarbone not heal to well. Just saying if it was the other way around we would probably hear all about "2nd ride back from injury, not 100%). But Herlings doesn't get that. Because, well he is Herlings. Good on Cooper. I do believe he would of had a harder time that 2nd moto had Herlings been 100%. I still may of won though who knows, it was a great fight.

How about the rest of the class being 3secs slower than the top 3. Watching Sewer struggle to even corner was painful. Just seemed off balance.

Looking forward to Glen Helen, a top MX2 Aussie is going to be there under factory KTM tent. Can't wait to see how he does.
Flip109
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9/5/2016 7:44pm
What sort of shit show prevails if Herlings and Gajser both go 1-1 this weekend Evil Whistling
OleTex
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9/5/2016 7:55pm
Damn good racing this weekend. Exceeded my expectations. Herlings is fast. Webb won.
MX4EVR
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9/5/2016 8:02pm
Yup
19th
For us that can count
Jimmy_Sloan
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9/5/2016 8:40pm
Webb and Tomac humbled the GP riders and fans alike. Good to see.
kongols
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9/5/2016 8:53pm
Webb and Tomac humbled the GP riders and fans alike. Good to see.
It was a little over the top after last few MXDN and RV adventure. One race never tells the story.
9/6/2016 12:14am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2016 12:24am
This whole Euro vs USA thing seems to get worse every f*cking year. Why can't we just enjoy our beautifull sport?
Because it's fun being a fan and cheering for your side of the pond, Mr. PC. Smile
"Cheering for your side of the pond"
us vs them again. You know there a different countrys in Europe? People speak different languages here, have different mentalities and even look different in every country. I don't know a single person who feels european. People cheers for their countries. Why should I cheer for lets say Desalle Because he is from my side of the pond? Or he is not from America? Dude, maybe I cheer for him because he is a good guy but from the other side of the pond? It's totally beyond me. Nothing to do with pc.

Edit: No big deal at all. I'm not mad on you just in case...just clarifying, its all in your head

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