Suzuki Announces RCH/Yoshimura/Suzuki Factory Racing

Langhammx 9/2/2016 3:46pm
9/2/2016 3:46pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Yeah. You're getting my drift. I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to...
Yeah. You're getting my drift.

I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to the tune of "what does DeCoster see in him?".... "He's not even that good".... "He was just GIVEN a factory ride"

Fast forward a couple seasons and a championship or two later and I heard one mechanic on our team say out loud to everyone, "Dungey isn't even that good, he just works hard". Nobody disagreed with the sentiment. Me on the other hand? I had to go take a walk. I couldnt fathom the ridiculousness of the statement. Can you imagine a coach of the Jaguars saying that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? They'd get laughed out of the room.

But the attitude was pretty prevalent around the pits. Dungey was upsetting the apple cart. His dedication and closed knit inner circle was standard practice for successful pro athletes, but it wasnt the norm in this sport. And unlike the Alessi's (whom operate in a similar fashion) Dungey was getting the results to back up his methods.

I think Dungey's approach scares a lot of the incumbent workforce in this sport. Most arent qualified to work for Dungey's crew. And I think if the level of professionalism Dungey displays spread throughout the sport, we'd see a lot of people lose their jobs. No more partying with the riders. No more treating life like it's still high school. Riders felt super threatened because it meant they better get their act together.

Dungey's entire career has been that of a guy that has mopped the floor with the competition more often than not. And his competition IS more talented than he is in most cases. The only time we've seen Dungey really challenged during his career was with Villopoto, a guy who also had the work ethic of Dungey but the talent to match it.

There is NOTHING stopping so many of these kids from being the next Villo or Dungey but themselves and who they surround themselves with. This sport needs a good house cleaning. But then again, there are many who love the old school vibe. It's still sorta a throwback to the days of 70's motoGP racing. Party during the week and race hard on the weekends. I understand that nostalgia. But I cant help but look at the trail of lost talent due to the "scene". Guys like JLaw, Stroupe, Izzi, etc etc etc, it just really bums me out to think "what shouldve been". And I cant help but look at the long list of wasted talent such as Bubba, Millsaps, Dean Wilson and more who while theyve had successful careers by most definitions, they never really came close to their potential due to the distractions of life. Another long tenured mechanic in the pits once told me something to the effect of, "man, I dont care what happens to these riders, they come, they go, but Im grandfathered in, I'll always have a job." So disgusting of an attitude. I feel bad for the parents who hand their "investments" off to these jokers.

McGrath was the last guy to win titles on talent alone. RC4 changed the game and it's not going back.

There isnt a lack of good bikes in this sport.
There isnt a lack of funding.
There isnt a lack of talent.

There's a lack of professionals. There's plenty of talent out there and plenty of podiums/money to be had. All it takes is a few J-Mart's, RC's or Dungey's to really expose the field.

- This aint the 90's where 2 stroke horsepower was so difficult to create. These thumpers are mostly too fast for everyone. It's all about setup. Good luck getting these kids to really commit to the test track as much as they need to be.

- The gap between factory suspension & retail A-Kit stuff, while it exists, has never been narrower.

- Everyone has traction control now, unlike during Pro Circuit's run of dominance.

- The ONLY area that there is still a large gap is with worx tires. Which are a big deal, but again, if you want the worx tires that guys like Dungey get, then go work as hard as he is. After all, "he isnt that talented".

Fuck. Im not even a Dungey fan tbh. But I respect the hell out of what he's done. He's not only had to battle the competition, but he's had to overcome the culture of the sport. Just watch and see what Roczen does now that he's with Honda. Dungey is in trouble. Cause Roczen has all the talent in the world and now he's on a team that isnt going to put up with any bullshit. Honda knows "winning". This aint some toy like RCH is for Hart & Ricky. The racing between these 2 is going to be epic. I just wish it was the top-10 going at it like this instead of the few who's talent match their focus.
Damn good post. There isnt a single thing you said that I don't fully agree with.

I'll comment on this part-
Dungey was just a really good rider until he got the Factory Suzuk contract. But once he got his opportunity, he never looked back once. We were pitted with him in Mammoth in '06 with Suzuki and he came there as an intermediate, but they forced him to turn pro, if he wanted to race. He was still an amateur and was only just starting to receive help through Suzuki, after winning Whitney. They decided to move up and he battled with McGrath in the main. MC beat him, but he showed some crazy speed on a track that he'd never been to. McGrath has been one of the fastest guys in Mammoth for a very long time. It was an EPIC race, he would've crushed the Int class. Ryan was 16 (I beleive) and showed up to kick ass and take names later. He got hooked up with Roger and they worked really well together. REALLY WELL !!!! He got a great break and took full advantage of the opportunity. Badass story, IMO
He's super talented, obviously, but his persistent efforts in all aspects is what sets the guy apart. He's by far the most consistent guy with the lowest average finishing position, in the history of our sport. I think the last time it was posted somewhere, it was like 3.1 average position. Like 3 dnf's and one missed race on his career ? I could be off on that, but it's pretty close to those #'s. Of course he's injured now, but up until this one, I beleive a broken collar bone is the only injury that kept him from racing. Under-rated guy... You can bet while some of these other guys are out partying it up, while they are on break, (which I have NO problem with BTW), Ryan is hanging out at home with his family and has n interest in getting hammered or any other form of intoxication. He's a goal to ride at his best until he doesn't want to di it any longer. This being said.... I bet next year could be his last. Between having all this time to hang out with his wife and do normal fun stuff, while his neck heals, probably has him thinking how nice it'll be to not have to devote his life to racing dirt bikes. Tack on the fact that Roczen could possibly be able to beat him on any given weekend and that could help his decision. Wouldn't blame him a bit.... He's earned his money and can live comfy the rest of his life, if he wants. I'm sure there's a good ambassador for KTM in his future which would be great to keep involved and help the kids coming up.

As far as Bubba.... If I was a betting man, I'd say if Michal Alessi is back in the US racing SX for MCR, the whole Bubba thing will fall apart. I just don't see him and Alessi racing under the same tent/ semi. With the rumors of Mike wanting to chase a SX title in Austrailia before he retires, I'd say that if he does go, them as odd as it seems, Bubba might be on the Honda in Mikes spot ?? Just guessing, ZERO knowledge !! Wink
Either way, I'm sure that someone in the know, will chime in soon. If James doesn't end up on a MCR Honda, I'm really curious what his back up plan is.
TbonesPop 9/2/2016 4:03pm
9/2/2016 4:03pm
I'd like to argue the lack of talent (or less talented) points people are trying to make about Dungey. He's as talented as hell. You don't accomplish what he has accomplished in this sport against the competition he did it against and not be super talented. He just makes it look too easy. Watch him riding against Stewart in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm and get back to me on the lack of talent point.

Jmicmoto13 9/2/2016 4:05pm
9/2/2016 4:05pm
Good info on this page. Well said Langham and Jabroni. I echo your stand on all topics stated.
Langhammx 9/2/2016 4:35pm
9/2/2016 4:35pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2016 4:37pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I'd like to argue the lack of talent (or less talented) points people are trying to make about Dungey. He's as talented as hell. You don't...
I'd like to argue the lack of talent (or less talented) points people are trying to make about Dungey. He's as talented as hell. You don't accomplish what he has accomplished in this sport against the competition he did it against and not be super talented. He just makes it look too easy. Watch him riding against Stewart in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm and get back to me on the lack of talent point.

I'm not saying he's not talented, he's just had to work at it to be where he is. Something I have major respect for, he's a stud in my book. He does not have James Stewart talent, but very few have had that. If Stewart put in the exact same effort as Dungey does/ has, he'd be unstoppable. I dont think many would argue that... That's what separates Dungey, he's willing to give 100%, all the time. Roczen has more talent than Dungey, IMO. That's what happens when he (Roczen) gets his head straight and has some good luck on his side (avoiding getting injured). Too much blame went on getting the bike "set-up" and I realize when the bike feels good, it helps with the mental side too. If Roczen doesnt adapt to the Honda quickly, he might need to step up his program, because Dungey will be ready, come A-1. I can't wait, they are going to set the bar high. Tomac should be hitting the rev limiter on his program, if he wants to be on their pace next year. The fight for 4th place is going to be fierce, if the rest of these guys come in healthy.

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Underground 9/2/2016 5:12pm
9/2/2016 5:12pm
Great news. Big Suzuki fan here
burn1986
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burn1986 9/2/2016 5:12pm
9/2/2016 5:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2016 5:16pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Yeah. You're getting my drift. I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to...
Yeah. You're getting my drift.

I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to the tune of "what does DeCoster see in him?".... "He's not even that good".... "He was just GIVEN a factory ride"

Fast forward a couple seasons and a championship or two later and I heard one mechanic on our team say out loud to everyone, "Dungey isn't even that good, he just works hard". Nobody disagreed with the sentiment. Me on the other hand? I had to go take a walk. I couldnt fathom the ridiculousness of the statement. Can you imagine a coach of the Jaguars saying that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? They'd get laughed out of the room.

But the attitude was pretty prevalent around the pits. Dungey was upsetting the apple cart. His dedication and closed knit inner circle was standard practice for successful pro athletes, but it wasnt the norm in this sport. And unlike the Alessi's (whom operate in a similar fashion) Dungey was getting the results to back up his methods.

I think Dungey's approach scares a lot of the incumbent workforce in this sport. Most arent qualified to work for Dungey's crew. And I think if the level of professionalism Dungey displays spread throughout the sport, we'd see a lot of people lose their jobs. No more partying with the riders. No more treating life like it's still high school. Riders felt super threatened because it meant they better get their act together.

Dungey's entire career has been that of a guy that has mopped the floor with the competition more often than not. And his competition IS more talented than he is in most cases. The only time we've seen Dungey really challenged during his career was with Villopoto, a guy who also had the work ethic of Dungey but the talent to match it.

There is NOTHING stopping so many of these kids from being the next Villo or Dungey but themselves and who they surround themselves with. This sport needs a good house cleaning. But then again, there are many who love the old school vibe. It's still sorta a throwback to the days of 70's motoGP racing. Party during the week and race hard on the weekends. I understand that nostalgia. But I cant help but look at the trail of lost talent due to the "scene". Guys like JLaw, Stroupe, Izzi, etc etc etc, it just really bums me out to think "what shouldve been". And I cant help but look at the long list of wasted talent such as Bubba, Millsaps, Dean Wilson and more who while theyve had successful careers by most definitions, they never really came close to their potential due to the distractions of life. Another long tenured mechanic in the pits once told me something to the effect of, "man, I dont care what happens to these riders, they come, they go, but Im grandfathered in, I'll always have a job." So disgusting of an attitude. I feel bad for the parents who hand their "investments" off to these jokers.

McGrath was the last guy to win titles on talent alone. RC4 changed the game and it's not going back.

There isnt a lack of good bikes in this sport.
There isnt a lack of funding.
There isnt a lack of talent.

There's a lack of professionals. There's plenty of talent out there and plenty of podiums/money to be had. All it takes is a few J-Mart's, RC's or Dungey's to really expose the field.

- This aint the 90's where 2 stroke horsepower was so difficult to create. These thumpers are mostly too fast for everyone. It's all about setup. Good luck getting these kids to really commit to the test track as much as they need to be.

- The gap between factory suspension & retail A-Kit stuff, while it exists, has never been narrower.

- Everyone has traction control now, unlike during Pro Circuit's run of dominance.

- The ONLY area that there is still a large gap is with worx tires. Which are a big deal, but again, if you want the worx tires that guys like Dungey get, then go work as hard as he is. After all, "he isnt that talented".

Fuck. Im not even a Dungey fan tbh. But I respect the hell out of what he's done. He's not only had to battle the competition, but he's had to overcome the culture of the sport. Just watch and see what Roczen does now that he's with Honda. Dungey is in trouble. Cause Roczen has all the talent in the world and now he's on a team that isnt going to put up with any bullshit. Honda knows "winning". This aint some toy like RCH is for Hart & Ricky. The racing between these 2 is going to be epic. I just wish it was the top-10 going at it like this instead of the few who's talent match their focus.
Excellent post until you mentioned Honda. Honda doesn't know or remember winning.All they know are pride and arrogance.
Ghost of Jabroni 9/2/2016 7:25pm
9/2/2016 7:25pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I'd like to argue the lack of talent (or less talented) points people are trying to make about Dungey. He's as talented as hell. You don't...
I'd like to argue the lack of talent (or less talented) points people are trying to make about Dungey. He's as talented as hell. You don't accomplish what he has accomplished in this sport against the competition he did it against and not be super talented. He just makes it look too easy. Watch him riding against Stewart in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm and get back to me on the lack of talent point.

Langhammx wrote:
I'm not saying he's not talented, he's just had to work at it to be where he is. Something I have major respect for, he's a...
I'm not saying he's not talented, he's just had to work at it to be where he is. Something I have major respect for, he's a stud in my book. He does not have James Stewart talent, but very few have had that. If Stewart put in the exact same effort as Dungey does/ has, he'd be unstoppable. I dont think many would argue that... That's what separates Dungey, he's willing to give 100%, all the time. Roczen has more talent than Dungey, IMO. That's what happens when he (Roczen) gets his head straight and has some good luck on his side (avoiding getting injured). Too much blame went on getting the bike "set-up" and I realize when the bike feels good, it helps with the mental side too. If Roczen doesnt adapt to the Honda quickly, he might need to step up his program, because Dungey will be ready, come A-1. I can't wait, they are going to set the bar high. Tomac should be hitting the rev limiter on his program, if he wants to be on their pace next year. The fight for 4th place is going to be fierce, if the rest of these guys come in healthy.
Im responding to you and Tbones in one post here....

When I say that "Dungey isnt as talented as his competition", please dont take that as me saying he's not talented. Ive never said that. Of course he's talented compared to guys like you and me. But amongst his peers, I dont know if I'd put him in the top-10 of his field at any point in his career except for maybe during his 250 days?

When I heard one of our mechanics say "Dungey wasnt that good, he just worked hard", the mechanic was NOT making a inaccurate statement when comparing Dungey to his peers. The reason the statement was idiotic was how the fuck are you going to hold it against someone that they work hard? And what the fuck does that say about the competition??? He's winning CHAMPIONSHIPS on just work ethic!!!

When you're at the practice track, and you watch guys like Barcia, Bogle, Stroupe, Izzi, or Bubba put in laps under no pressure, it's easy to see how much "natural" talent those guys REALLY have. And Dungey doesnt come close to it. Ive never watched Dungey on a practice day and been impressed (relatively speaking!). I can tell you that damn near every time I saw Stroupe (for example) ride I was in awe. The difference in their results on race day was due to what went on during the week when NOT at the practice track.

Honda will give Roczen EVERY opportunity to get the bike the way he wants it. Whether Roczen keeps his head & puts in the work with them is entirely up to him. Not everyone wants to spend the kind of time at the practice track getting the setup right that a guy like Carmichael used to put in. But his ass better believe, Dungey will indeed be ready come A1. I mean, let's not forget that it was Dungey that brought KTM all it's first American success. He and DeCoster completely rebuilt that brand's image here in America. That is a testament to their focus & drive matching the ambitions of the manufacturer, in their case KTM (whom thinks they are the European Honda). There are so many sub-plots going into next year. KTM want's Honda's spot in the eyes of the consumer and KTM has done everything right the last 20 years to get to this point. I think Honda has finally taken notice and is ready to fight back. These are two VERY ambitious mfg's. This rivalry between the brands has only begun and it's going to be a brutal war. This aint the same as Honda vs Yamaha. Dont underestimate the Japan vs European angle. 2 very proud but different cultures. It'll be fun to watch this play out.

And if Roczen doesnt pan out (I think he will) then they got J-Mart in the red pipeline. I think Honda is about to go on a impressive run and reclaim their perch.
Ghost of Jabroni 9/2/2016 7:28pm
9/2/2016 7:28pm
burn1986 wrote:
Excellent post until you mentioned Honda. Honda doesn't know or remember winning.All they know are pride and arrogance.
Dont get me wrong, Im no Honda fanboi.

But they own MotoGP. And I think they do what they want here in America when it comes to SX/MX (which for a long while it's appeared to be a focus on branding). Now they they are serious about winning again, I think they will get their results they seek.
Crush
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Crush 9/2/2016 7:46pm
9/2/2016 7:46pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Dont get me wrong, Im no Honda fanboi. But they own MotoGP. And I think they do what they want here in America when it comes...
Dont get me wrong, Im no Honda fanboi.

But they own MotoGP. And I think they do what they want here in America when it comes to SX/MX (which for a long while it's appeared to be a focus on branding). Now they they are serious about winning again, I think they will get their results they seek.
Own?

They've split championships 1 for 1 since 2001.
malachi177
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malachi177 9/2/2016 7:48pm
9/2/2016 7:48pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Dont get me wrong, Im no Honda fanboi. But they own MotoGP. And I think they do what they want here in America when it comes...
Dont get me wrong, Im no Honda fanboi.

But they own MotoGP. And I think they do what they want here in America when it comes to SX/MX (which for a long while it's appeared to be a focus on branding). Now they they are serious about winning again, I think they will get their results they seek.
Crush wrote:
Own?

They've split championships 1 for 1 since 2001.
Yep, he lost me with that comment.Pinch
David934
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David934 9/5/2016 12:16am
9/5/2016 12:16am
EastFlorida wrote:
Did I miss it? Who are the riders?
I hope Weston Peick coming!
Icespikes 9/5/2016 12:35pm
9/5/2016 12:35pm
dungey & reed won their championships when the dominat riders weren't there - some call that smart

worldwide? 200 dirt bikers make a living doing it , that they can retire from , dungey & reed are on top of that heap and are part of a small % that are rich

So fastest at the test track they'll never be but everyone realizes when we speak of pro motocross the 200? guys that are lucky enough world-wide to make a living are ALL fucking bad ass on a bike

maybe 200? is a tall order in Canada 1 guy makes a living , 2nd does alright? 3rd has a regular job! But for arguments sake let's say 3 guys earn a LIVING & RETIREMENT racing dirt bikes in Canada ! How many earn a living / retirement in the FIM? Australia? South Africa? Ok??? maybe as I actually break it down - only 100 people earn a living in racing motocross that they can retire from world-wide - how many bikes get sold a year? How many kids have the dream to be a pro? What's the chances one of these 100 spots is open worldwide for your kid to fill and earn a living and retire by 30?

..... these are the thoughts that pop in my head when I read about how dungey doesn't beat the top guys on the list! - true words!!!! I just like to remember how big or small? that list really is ... less than 100 riders world wide

We should list them? riders right now that can retire from AMA? Bubba, reed & dungey FIM? CMRC? AUSTRALIA? SOUTH AFRICA?

K maybe there's no where near 100 careers in dirt bike racing world wide

Sure they're 100s of jobs racing dirt bikes but like Steve says ' after you stopped racing did you get a job? well bro you didn't retire - you quit!

Anyone that earns a living & retirement riding a dirt bike is bad ass! (& lucky)

what's with stew? did he not put enough away? why is still out there? the old bubba scrubber wonder if he'll win straight rythum again!

Anyways great thread guys ! Carry on!

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Flatliner 9/5/2016 1:29pm
9/5/2016 1:29pm
Icespikes wrote:
dungey & reed won their championships when the dominat riders weren't there - some call that smart worldwide? 200 dirt bikers make a living doing it...
dungey & reed won their championships when the dominat riders weren't there - some call that smart

worldwide? 200 dirt bikers make a living doing it , that they can retire from , dungey & reed are on top of that heap and are part of a small % that are rich

So fastest at the test track they'll never be but everyone realizes when we speak of pro motocross the 200? guys that are lucky enough world-wide to make a living are ALL fucking bad ass on a bike

maybe 200? is a tall order in Canada 1 guy makes a living , 2nd does alright? 3rd has a regular job! But for arguments sake let's say 3 guys earn a LIVING & RETIREMENT racing dirt bikes in Canada ! How many earn a living / retirement in the FIM? Australia? South Africa? Ok??? maybe as I actually break it down - only 100 people earn a living in racing motocross that they can retire from world-wide - how many bikes get sold a year? How many kids have the dream to be a pro? What's the chances one of these 100 spots is open worldwide for your kid to fill and earn a living and retire by 30?

..... these are the thoughts that pop in my head when I read about how dungey doesn't beat the top guys on the list! - true words!!!! I just like to remember how big or small? that list really is ... less than 100 riders world wide

We should list them? riders right now that can retire from AMA? Bubba, reed & dungey FIM? CMRC? AUSTRALIA? SOUTH AFRICA?

K maybe there's no where near 100 careers in dirt bike racing world wide

Sure they're 100s of jobs racing dirt bikes but like Steve says ' after you stopped racing did you get a job? well bro you didn't retire - you quit!

Anyone that earns a living & retirement riding a dirt bike is bad ass! (& lucky)

what's with stew? did he not put enough away? why is still out there? the old bubba scrubber wonder if he'll win straight rythum again!

Anyways great thread guys ! Carry on!

Dungey has 3sx titles and 4 national titles man, you don't win that much because "the top guys were out".

Seriously the last two years in sx he's looked as good as any rider has I'd say ever. He had no weak points on the track.

I think people mistake flash, for speed sometimes.

Dirty Points 9/5/2016 2:36pm
9/5/2016 2:36pm
Flatliner wrote:
Dungey has 3sx titles and 4 national titles man, you don't win that much because "the top guys were out". Seriously the last two years in...
Dungey has 3sx titles and 4 national titles man, you don't win that much because "the top guys were out".

Seriously the last two years in sx he's looked as good as any rider has I'd say ever. He had no weak points on the track.

I think people mistake flash, for speed sometimes.

Dude is 4th all time in race wins behind RC, Stew, McGrath. "The top guys were out". LOL.
Spat24 9/5/2016 9:37pm
9/5/2016 9:37pm
So getting back to the RCH Yosh Team. Sounds like Bogle and Tickle from what some say on here. I am a little bummed Baggett didnt stay on Suzuki - I think he will have a good year next year. But the team has some good riders with Bogle and Tickle and am expecting some good rides from them.


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agn5009 9/5/2016 11:33pm
9/5/2016 11:33pm
It seems like Suzuki is the one manufacturer that's not going to have a championship caliber 450 rider. KTM has Dungey, Honda has Roczen, Kawi has Tomac and Yamaha has Webb. I really love Suzuki but damn. I understand Stewart was "supposed" to be that guy, but it didn't pan out. It seems like signing Stewart really set them back.
bents
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bents 9/6/2016 5:29pm
9/6/2016 5:29pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
There's never been more quality rides The playing field is pretty damn level as far as bikes/tech go, with relation to past eras. There are 6...
There's never been more quality rides
The playing field is pretty damn level as far as bikes/tech go, with relation to past eras.


There are 6 factory 450 teams in the USA alone. That's 12 factory bikes at any given moment. Plus JGR & Geico. So let's call it 15 REALLY good bikes capable of winning races.


There isnt even close to 15 racers that are capable of winning races in the 450 class. IMO, it's never been a better time to be a "talented" racer in this sport. I think before any top-30 guy starts bitching about the "lack of opportunities" they should put the beer bong down, lay off the weed, avoid the adderall parties, ditch the rut sluts, and actually treat their craft like a professional athlete should. There's so many riders out there who are just living on talent. A little dedication would go a long ways. A lot of dedication and any one of these dudes could be a Dungey.
bents wrote:
Jabroni, interesting POV and you are correct in that there are more than enough bikes capable of winning races, but the level of true commitment is...
Jabroni, interesting POV and you are correct in that there are more than enough bikes capable of winning races, but the level of true commitment is far from even across the board from what you are suggesting. And people complain about domination of 1-3 top guys while I both applaud it and love it. The question for a lot of guys as you see it then is, "am I doing everything I can every day to compete and beat the top guys." Correct?
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Yeah. You're getting my drift. I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to...
Yeah. You're getting my drift.

I'll never forget when Dungey was new on the scene. So many people within the pits were talking shit. Mostly to the tune of "what does DeCoster see in him?".... "He's not even that good".... "He was just GIVEN a factory ride"

Fast forward a couple seasons and a championship or two later and I heard one mechanic on our team say out loud to everyone, "Dungey isn't even that good, he just works hard". Nobody disagreed with the sentiment. Me on the other hand? I had to go take a walk. I couldnt fathom the ridiculousness of the statement. Can you imagine a coach of the Jaguars saying that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? They'd get laughed out of the room.

But the attitude was pretty prevalent around the pits. Dungey was upsetting the apple cart. His dedication and closed knit inner circle was standard practice for successful pro athletes, but it wasnt the norm in this sport. And unlike the Alessi's (whom operate in a similar fashion) Dungey was getting the results to back up his methods.

I think Dungey's approach scares a lot of the incumbent workforce in this sport. Most arent qualified to work for Dungey's crew. And I think if the level of professionalism Dungey displays spread throughout the sport, we'd see a lot of people lose their jobs. No more partying with the riders. No more treating life like it's still high school. Riders felt super threatened because it meant they better get their act together.

Dungey's entire career has been that of a guy that has mopped the floor with the competition more often than not. And his competition IS more talented than he is in most cases. The only time we've seen Dungey really challenged during his career was with Villopoto, a guy who also had the work ethic of Dungey but the talent to match it.

There is NOTHING stopping so many of these kids from being the next Villo or Dungey but themselves and who they surround themselves with. This sport needs a good house cleaning. But then again, there are many who love the old school vibe. It's still sorta a throwback to the days of 70's motoGP racing. Party during the week and race hard on the weekends. I understand that nostalgia. But I cant help but look at the trail of lost talent due to the "scene". Guys like JLaw, Stroupe, Izzi, etc etc etc, it just really bums me out to think "what shouldve been". And I cant help but look at the long list of wasted talent such as Bubba, Millsaps, Dean Wilson and more who while theyve had successful careers by most definitions, they never really came close to their potential due to the distractions of life. Another long tenured mechanic in the pits once told me something to the effect of, "man, I dont care what happens to these riders, they come, they go, but Im grandfathered in, I'll always have a job." So disgusting of an attitude. I feel bad for the parents who hand their "investments" off to these jokers.

McGrath was the last guy to win titles on talent alone. RC4 changed the game and it's not going back.

There isnt a lack of good bikes in this sport.
There isnt a lack of funding.
There isnt a lack of talent.

There's a lack of professionals. There's plenty of talent out there and plenty of podiums/money to be had. All it takes is a few J-Mart's, RC's or Dungey's to really expose the field.

- This aint the 90's where 2 stroke horsepower was so difficult to create. These thumpers are mostly too fast for everyone. It's all about setup. Good luck getting these kids to really commit to the test track as much as they need to be.

- The gap between factory suspension & retail A-Kit stuff, while it exists, has never been narrower.

- Everyone has traction control now, unlike during Pro Circuit's run of dominance.

- The ONLY area that there is still a large gap is with worx tires. Which are a big deal, but again, if you want the worx tires that guys like Dungey get, then go work as hard as he is. After all, "he isnt that talented".

Fuck. Im not even a Dungey fan tbh. But I respect the hell out of what he's done. He's not only had to battle the competition, but he's had to overcome the culture of the sport. Just watch and see what Roczen does now that he's with Honda. Dungey is in trouble. Cause Roczen has all the talent in the world and now he's on a team that isnt going to put up with any bullshit. Honda knows "winning". This aint some toy like RCH is for Hart & Ricky. The racing between these 2 is going to be epic. I just wish it was the top-10 going at it like this instead of the few who's talent match their focus.
It is a little disheartening to hear that so many aren't dedicating themselves to their full capacity. I mean how else would you in the end beat a guy like Dungey? If he is out training and out dedicating you, what makes a guy BELIEVE he can win? You pretty much have to start there. And their employers should be holding them accountable and it is not that difficult with all the physical testing available to see if their guy has been training or not. Well, the environment is fantastic to those few who are doing everything they are supposed to in order to prepare their bodies, their minds, and their bikes for their best performance possible.
tmx860
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tmx860 9/6/2016 8:42pm
9/6/2016 8:42pm
so are other top pro riders intoxicating themselves?

Pit Row

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MX Guy
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MX Guy 9/6/2016 8:45pm
9/6/2016 8:45pm
agn5009 wrote:
It seems like Suzuki is the one manufacturer that's not going to have a championship caliber 450 rider. KTM has Dungey, Honda has Roczen, Kawi has...
It seems like Suzuki is the one manufacturer that's not going to have a championship caliber 450 rider. KTM has Dungey, Honda has Roczen, Kawi has Tomac and Yamaha has Webb. I really love Suzuki but damn. I understand Stewart was "supposed" to be that guy, but it didn't pan out. It seems like signing Stewart really set them back.
Don't doubt Bogle! Wink
Helder
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Helder 11/24/2016 1:43am
11/24/2016 1:43am
Gunna revive this one, RCH are looking a bit shakey wouldn't you say.....you would want to have bikes, riders, sponsors ready to go this close to the opener?
Helder
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Helder 11/24/2016 1:46am
11/24/2016 1:46am
Or have i missed the announcement??
Moens_Andy 11/24/2016 2:26am
11/24/2016 2:26am
agn5009 wrote:
It seems like Suzuki is the one manufacturer that's not going to have a championship caliber 450 rider. KTM has Dungey, Honda has Roczen, Kawi has...
It seems like Suzuki is the one manufacturer that's not going to have a championship caliber 450 rider. KTM has Dungey, Honda has Roczen, Kawi has Tomac and Yamaha has Webb. I really love Suzuki but damn. I understand Stewart was "supposed" to be that guy, but it didn't pan out. It seems like signing Stewart really set them back.
The problem
KTM has 3 top riders all 3 of them could win a main or a outdoor on any given moment. Musquin, Canard and Dungey
Honda has 2 top riders with someone who is probably the best at this moment outdoors and we know he can win indoors, the other is a Sx specialist and could fight for wins and podiums on any given day and has become a solid top 5 rider outdoors. Roczen and Seely
Yamaha has 2 top riders one of them is a superior SX rider and has left the outdoors behind, the other is a rookie and we know he has skills and a lot of hearth will we get to see this translate into the big boy class? Reed and Webb
Suzuki has 2 riders that we know for sure off could we call them Top riders at this moment? None of them have showed great speed or consistency the past year. Barca and Peick , There will be extra riders added to this list probably Bogle, Tickle and Weimer but as far is i know nothing has been official yet.
Kawaskai has 2 top riders one of them is able to win it all and humiliate the entire field the other is able to win on the right day and has shown more and more consistency as he grew older. Tomac and Grant
Husqvarna has 3 top riders 3 off them who have yet to show there full potential in a complete 450 season. Anderson, Osborne and Pourcel

KTM has 2 extra riders with Bagget and Millsaps
Honda has 2 extra riders Brayton and Noren
Yamaha has 1 extra rider Wilson although nobody seems to know in what team he'll end up
Suzuki has no known extra rider unless RCH is only fielding 2 riders we will have a spare there and with that being said it will most likely be Weimer who is left out the team
Kawasaki has nobody i know off who is able to fill in or let alone put another Kawasaki on the line
Husqvarna has nobody i know off who is able to fill in or let alone put another Husqvarna on the line

And we have 2 brothers who seem super interested to line up but have nothing official set up yet, both off them are Top riders and could win some races. One of them has yet to show full potential in a full 450 season the other one has yet to show the great speed he once had . Stewart and Stewart
Bike brand is a unknown for this brothers, although they were both spotted on Yamaha's, a bike the oldest of the 2 had problems with earlier in his carreer.

For me it seems that Kawasaki and Yamaha are really hurting the most they have 2 bikes lining up and thats it a close 3th is Husqvarna all other manufacturers have 4 or more bike's lining up with Top riders mounted on them
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 11/24/2016 9:37am
11/24/2016 9:37am
Icespikes wrote:
dungey & reed won their championships when the dominat riders weren't there - some call that smart worldwide? 200 dirt bikers make a living doing it...
dungey & reed won their championships when the dominat riders weren't there - some call that smart

worldwide? 200 dirt bikers make a living doing it , that they can retire from , dungey & reed are on top of that heap and are part of a small % that are rich

So fastest at the test track they'll never be but everyone realizes when we speak of pro motocross the 200? guys that are lucky enough world-wide to make a living are ALL fucking bad ass on a bike

maybe 200? is a tall order in Canada 1 guy makes a living , 2nd does alright? 3rd has a regular job! But for arguments sake let's say 3 guys earn a LIVING & RETIREMENT racing dirt bikes in Canada ! How many earn a living / retirement in the FIM? Australia? South Africa? Ok??? maybe as I actually break it down - only 100 people earn a living in racing motocross that they can retire from world-wide - how many bikes get sold a year? How many kids have the dream to be a pro? What's the chances one of these 100 spots is open worldwide for your kid to fill and earn a living and retire by 30?

..... these are the thoughts that pop in my head when I read about how dungey doesn't beat the top guys on the list! - true words!!!! I just like to remember how big or small? that list really is ... less than 100 riders world wide

We should list them? riders right now that can retire from AMA? Bubba, reed & dungey FIM? CMRC? AUSTRALIA? SOUTH AFRICA?

K maybe there's no where near 100 careers in dirt bike racing world wide

Sure they're 100s of jobs racing dirt bikes but like Steve says ' after you stopped racing did you get a job? well bro you didn't retire - you quit!

Anyone that earns a living & retirement riding a dirt bike is bad ass! (& lucky)

what's with stew? did he not put enough away? why is still out there? the old bubba scrubber wonder if he'll win straight rythum again!

Anyways great thread guys ! Carry on!

Flatliner wrote:
Dungey has 3sx titles and 4 national titles man, you don't win that much because "the top guys were out". Seriously the last two years in...
Dungey has 3sx titles and 4 national titles man, you don't win that much because "the top guys were out".

Seriously the last two years in sx he's looked as good as any rider has I'd say ever. He had no weak points on the track.

I think people mistake flash, for speed sometimes.

Dungey looked better than he ever did this year for sure.
tek14
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tek14 11/24/2016 10:02am
11/24/2016 10:02am
If Tomac and Barcia are out.. Suzuki and Kawasaki are out of top 10 rest of the year it seems.
Kawasaki had support team before but nothing now?
RCH was coming out monday.. wednesday.. they don't have any crew left who can do it?
OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 11/24/2016 10:49am
11/24/2016 10:49am
I think Tedder is about the closest thing to a kawi support team out there . It's to bad RCH didn't take on the 250 program as well . They would have had a feeder system . JGR appears to doing it correct
Still2StrokenIt 11/24/2016 11:16am
11/24/2016 11:16am
OR Racer46 wrote:
I think Tedder is about the closest thing to a kawi support team out there . It's to bad RCH didn't take on the 250 program...
I think Tedder is about the closest thing to a kawi support team out there . It's to bad RCH didn't take on the 250 program as well . They would have had a feeder system . JGR appears to doing it correct
RCH is over I feel. JGR will prob be Factory... Can't count #RC out but 46 days to #A1 no team no major sponsers no news is bad news in SX... Kawi should of bought zuki years ago.
TheOriginalPancakee 11/24/2016 11:34am
11/24/2016 11:34am
Tbteam wrote:
Wait... wasn't RCH imploding just last week? I think RC and H were hating each other and splitting up.

I love this place.
Hahahaahaha
TheOriginalPancakee 11/24/2016 11:50am
11/24/2016 11:50am
tek14 wrote:
If Tomac and Barcia are out.. Suzuki and Kawasaki are out of top 10 rest of the year it seems. Kawasaki had support team before but...
If Tomac and Barcia are out.. Suzuki and Kawasaki are out of top 10 rest of the year it seems.
Kawasaki had support team before but nothing now?
RCH was coming out monday.. wednesday.. they don't have any crew left who can do it?
Bogle can score top 10's. So can tickle. Bogle had a few top 5s I believe last year
UpTiTe 11/24/2016 12:18pm
11/24/2016 12:18pm
Why do you guys assume that RCH has no team?

A none existent team doesn't test with 3 bikes for the past 3 weeks.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/24/2016 12:20pm
11/24/2016 12:20pm
Helder wrote:
Or have i missed the announcement??
If you read the original PR from Suzuki...

"BREA, Calif. (September 1, 2016) – Suzuki Motor of America, Inc. (SMAI) today announced the formation of RCH/Yoshimura/Suzuki Factory Racing as its premier 450 motocross and supercross team."

Since then there seems to be some title sponsor/funding noise coming from the jungle-drums.

I'm guessing that with the crazy toss-up in riders, sponsors & teams, yes...as in KR going to Honda and RCH not having what many consider as a "contender"...and Jimmy Johns going away...well, I'm guessing that funding is tighter and the folks at Suzuki, RCH & Yoshimura are working with the new reality of trying to make it all happen with a lot less operating capital.

But, there's that "premier 450 motocross and supercross team" statement. Well, that makes me want to say this ...or ...write it:

Dear Mr. Suzuki,

It has come to my attention that you're faced with the decision to fund your own team or not. I'm of the opinion that you should ask yourself a very simple set of questions:

1. Do you want your brand to be relevant in global and, namely, U.S. motocross & off-road sales?
2. Do you want a "Factory Team" (which you can maintain a comfortable level of control)?
3. Where would you otherwise spend your marketing dollars for as focused of a "market exposure" opportunity?
4. Do you believe in your brand in the U.S.A.?

Sir, I think the last question is the most important. You have an excellent product and an amazing organization to represent it.

Do you believe in them or not?
I do.
Write the check.

With Respect,

Manny Ornellas
(A fan of Suzuki and their amazing history in motorcycle racing)

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