Lucas Oil Nationals need some work.......

steve_97060
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8/28/2016 2:42pm
zehn wrote:
VitalMX, the place for people who hate motocross racing
rut roh...
Indy mxer
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8/28/2016 3:07pm
Bearuno wrote:
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons...
Where were all you sad wankers that want to 'ef' with the sport, for your entertainment, when McGrath dominated in SX, RC got 2 unbeaten seasons and Bubba got one?

And, what's the bet you probably worship them?

Seriously, if it's just too boring for you, stop watching / attending the races, and watch crap like NASCAR and mainstream ball sports.

The sport has been bastardized hugely as it is. Some of you might just learn a bit if you went looking for pictures and videos of major races, decades ago, when they were 40 + 2 x 2 Moto's. Huge spectator attendance.

I guess it just might be down to tiny attention spans. Perhaps most of you should just play computer games.

Sad bastards, so many of you
Yeah. Back then we still had rotary phones, disco, and vcr's. Races on tv were rare. Plus bikes were crap, suspension sucked and the tracks were dusty because they didn't water much. And the riders didn't make shit.

Now go fire up your black and white tv and yell at the neighbor kids to get off your lawn!!!

And by the way, check out cell phones. They're a new thing and pretty cool.
8/28/2016 3:47pm
I did some napping while watching some of the Nationals this years, I was ashamed of myself but the racing was kind of lame
You're not the only one. I spent more time screwing around on my phone and dozing off than watching the racing all year. It's sad because this was once an obsession for me.
8/28/2016 3:53pm
Actual battles for the lead in national level racing are fairly rare. Usually the fastest guy gets out front fairly early, and it becomes a procession. Always been that way, if you don't like it, you don't like motorcycle racing.

The Shop

jmx411
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8/28/2016 3:58pm
I did some napping while watching some of the Nationals this years, I was ashamed of myself but the racing was kind of lame
You're not the only one. I spent more time screwing around on my phone and dozing off than watching the racing all year. It's sad because...
You're not the only one. I spent more time screwing around on my phone and dozing off than watching the racing all year. It's sad because this was once an obsession for me.
Same for me to. Had some other buddies who use to live to watch the races not even tune in this year. IMO this sport is on the verge of not even being on tv soon.
mmcmx
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8/28/2016 4:08pm
You mean you don't get absolutely mesmerized just watching those guys ride? If you want drama go watch netflix.
Gale19XX
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8/28/2016 4:11pm
It's nothing new. The Carmichael and Stewart era was equally as boring. Once they checked out after the gate drops in second motos, half the crowd would leave. Just seems to be a pattern that's no ones fault but the product of having some elite athletes dominating. I don't think it's something MX Sports could fix, although I don't care much for them in other regards.
8/28/2016 4:16pm
Please stop watching then, it's that simple.
jmx411
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8/28/2016 4:25pm
I haven't missed watching a race since 98 and hope I never miss a race, but its obvious things aren't great right now for the sport. Ratings are down, attendence is down, participation is down. If you do not adapt in this world you die.
RMZ#
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8/28/2016 4:26pm
In 5 yrs it is going to be game over for live TV with this sport. Then everyone will be talking how good the tracks and coverage were back in the good ole days of 2016.

Indy mxer
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8/28/2016 4:26pm
You all have some valid points. But just because it's been that way for a while doesn't mean we have to settle for that. Maybe there isn't a way to make the racing better..
But my point was, why not get everyone together and see if there is a better answer?

I am amazed at the pro riders, always have been. But for a sport to survive and grow, it has to fast paced, exciting and competitive. I agree with some on here, I do think there are some things that could improve the racing. But I'd like to see what the insiders think.

Even the elephant in the room, the NFL is always trying to make the product better and the games as exciting as possible. Now look whats happened to Stodgy MLB. It's becoming a regional sport. It's just too slow. And this is coming from a 59 year old baseball fan.
downard254
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8/28/2016 4:27pm
Hey, I'm not bitching guys. I was just offering up a suggestion as to what I thought was preventing more battles on track. I can remember when a chasing rider had the option of squaring corners or crossing all over the track trying to find a place to pass. It was cool to see the creativity some riders had in setting up a pass corners or laps ahead. With the sheer number of ruts now days, you are pretty much committed to a line. Maybe just don't rip the track so deep. Yea, I know it will dry out faster, and then there will be some dust. I just think the ultra deep ripping and watering are done to prevent dust which would look bad on TV. And I'm more old school too, where I think Supercross has it's place, but a Motocross track is not that place.

Oh, and I've been loving the GP's this year. There always seems to be a race up front. Not a whole lot of follow the leader.
Indy mxer
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8/28/2016 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 4:32pm
jmx411 wrote:
I haven't missed watching a race since 98 and hope I never miss a race, but its obvious things aren't great right now for the sport...
I haven't missed watching a race since 98 and hope I never miss a race, but its obvious things aren't great right now for the sport. Ratings are down, attendence is down, participation is down. If you do not adapt in this world you die.
well said. I agree. That was my whole point. If they expect people to plunk down their hard earned cash for the last race of the season, just to see most of the riders mail it in. The attendance will suffer. They need to figure out a way to make each race matter.

Some of the 250 guys were going all out though. props to them
BS261
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8/28/2016 4:38pm
Ruts seems to be a common complaint on this thread, isn't that what David Bailey pointed out when he was asked about 4 strokes versus 2? The thumpers just rut up the entire track. Combine that with the high cost of maintaining the modern bikes and you can see why a the popularity of the sport is declining.
8/28/2016 6:54pm
Please stop watching then, it's that simple.
Pretty sad when core people who are core fans are losing interest don't you think?
zehn
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8/28/2016 8:00pm
Please stop watching then, it's that simple.
Pretty sad when core people who are core fans are losing interest don't you think?
Are they really "core" fans then?

Personally, I couldn't imagine something I'd rather watch than motocross racing, whether it be a tight battle for the lead (those never last more than a couple laps at most), or a 30+ second blowout because I love watching the art of motocross.

Artificially introducing some external factor to boost the "drama" or excitement of an otherwise organic form of sporting is completely asinine and severely jeopardizes the integrity of our sport.

Just my opinion. This post obviously ignores the casual fan who just wants to be entertained, but those types don't post here anyways.
stone881
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8/28/2016 8:14pm
RG1 wrote:
The racing just seems to be boring to be honest. The gaps are huge between the riders and there is minimal excitement in each race. I...
The racing just seems to be boring to be honest. The gaps are huge between the riders and there is minimal excitement in each race. I don't really know what it is, maybe it's the way the tracks are prepped, I'm not sure, but it's pretty difficult to watch
I think your on the money, it has a lot to do with track prep. When the riders don't enjoy riding the tracks, it shows.
Tbteam
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8/28/2016 8:22pm
I've said this before, but I honestly feel that the bikes are too capable of dominating the track.

Lose momentum? Just gas it, you can still make the triple step up!

Corner speed lost? Just gas it, you'll be right back up to top speed in no time.

Not to turn this into a 2 stroke/4 stroke thing, but two strokes required a more talented, pure finesse approach to riding. It takes massive balls to ride at today's speed, but does it create good racing?

I say no.
8/28/2016 8:31pm
What did you expect? These guys are on the road since A1. A lot of guys got hurt and Kenny is pretty good at the moment.
I was at washougal and Ironman this year and these were the first nationals I've been. The tracks there were great, the track prep was the best I've ever seen, the whole schmear was all stylish. I also artended a lot of amateur racing here in the US and when I think of what we have in germany regarding the sport, I can only shake my head about your complaining. You american "MX fans" are pretty spoiled and therefore I feel really bad for the people who put all the effort in at these races, all the volunteers with blood sweat an tears. All the good work driven under the bus, because the riders are burnt out at this point of the season.
I recall a thread here few days ago where it was agreed upon "the most important race of the year". Surprisingly it was Supercross! A1! Triples in a parking lot! And since everybody is so much in love with the money here, the riders will sure ride more SX. Because this is what you want.
8/28/2016 8:40pm
Tbteam wrote:
I've said this before, but I honestly feel that the bikes are too capable of dominating the track. Lose momentum? Just gas it, you can still...
I've said this before, but I honestly feel that the bikes are too capable of dominating the track.

Lose momentum? Just gas it, you can still make the triple step up!

Corner speed lost? Just gas it, you'll be right back up to top speed in no time.

Not to turn this into a 2 stroke/4 stroke thing, but two strokes required a more talented, pure finesse approach to riding. It takes massive balls to ride at today's speed, but does it create good racing?

I say no.
Yeahhhhh, not to go down the 2 stroke/4 stroke road, but I agree with this.
mark1960
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8/28/2016 8:57pm
Watching Motocross is for core fans wether on Tv or at the races.

I have decided that race day should be Ametures on 250 cc race by race, no championship.

And the other class will be Pro run what you brung, production based championship.

This would fill the pro gates with a faster grid and amerires can get exposure at a national event.

If you are too slow to make the pro's, go race in Canada or Australia.
GuyB
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8/28/2016 9:09pm
RG1 wrote:
The racing just seems to be boring to be honest. The gaps are huge between the riders and there is minimal excitement in each race. I...
The racing just seems to be boring to be honest. The gaps are huge between the riders and there is minimal excitement in each race. I don't really know what it is, maybe it's the way the tracks are prepped, I'm not sure, but it's pretty difficult to watch
After a certain point in the season, riders pretty much find their level. They may not have the speed to catch the guy in front, and play defense from the guys behind. As the field thinned this year due to injuries, you have bigger gaps between the guys who are left.

Here's at least a partial MIA list in the 450s...

Dungey
Canard
Seely
Grant
Bogle
Pourcel
Stewart
Tickle
Baggett
Wentland
Bowers
Hahn (x2)

Add those in, and you have much more compelling action in the 450 class.


stewie94
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8/28/2016 9:46pm
i blame injuries of the top stars of the sport
dkg
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8/28/2016 9:49pm
What did you expect? These guys are on the road since A1. A lot of guys got hurt and Kenny is pretty good at the moment...
What did you expect? These guys are on the road since A1. A lot of guys got hurt and Kenny is pretty good at the moment.
I was at washougal and Ironman this year and these were the first nationals I've been. The tracks there were great, the track prep was the best I've ever seen, the whole schmear was all stylish. I also artended a lot of amateur racing here in the US and when I think of what we have in germany regarding the sport, I can only shake my head about your complaining. You american "MX fans" are pretty spoiled and therefore I feel really bad for the people who put all the effort in at these races, all the volunteers with blood sweat an tears. All the good work driven under the bus, because the riders are burnt out at this point of the season.
I recall a thread here few days ago where it was agreed upon "the most important race of the year". Surprisingly it was Supercross! A1! Triples in a parking lot! And since everybody is so much in love with the money here, the riders will sure ride more SX. Because this is what you want.
Thank you, I agree, great series this year. No one can control injuries and the effect they have on the later rounds of the series. Thankfully, the fine people producing the series and events continue to put forth the effort in spite of a few complainers.
bvm111
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8/28/2016 10:01pm
Please just stop with the chase nascar crap it is THE WORST form of racing period and has no place anywhere near the best form.

Kenny beat everyone get over it and look forward to next year.
zehn
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8/28/2016 10:03pm
bvm111 wrote:
Please just stop with the chase nascar crap it is THE WORST form of racing period and has no place anywhere near the best form. Kenny...
Please just stop with the chase nascar crap it is THE WORST form of racing period and has no place anywhere near the best form.

Kenny beat everyone get over it and look forward to next year.
Not to mention that it has pretty much killed viewership in NASCAR. The chase format is a joke and NASCAR is dying because of it.
Johnny Depp
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8/28/2016 10:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2016 10:33pm
Injured riders for sure hurt the show. Unfortunately that is not an anomaly, year after year the attrition in this sport is ruthless. It's kind of hard to use that excuse knowing that it will continue to happen if changes aren't made.

It's not like new ideas don't exist, and I believe the Nationals have a strong tradition in format that justifies not changing it. If the SX series morph's into something that threatens the National's existence that may force some changes?

So would "minor tweaks" be enough to right the ship? And what might those be?

* rut reduction
* jump taming
* less technical tracks (for less separation of lap times)
* shorter motos
* production rule drop
* homolgation rule drop
* allow any engine size or type
* drop steroid rule
* drop fuel spec rule
* encourage international entries
* 2 yrs. or 21 yr. old max age in Junior Pro class (250)
* gate choice by lottery both motos
* 3 new tracks per year rotated into schedule
* schedule arranged geographically conveniently
* spectator amenities upgrade (mobile bleachers, big screens, vendors, auto access, suites, shade, showers)
* open pits
* teams sell casual wear
* rider names and country flag required above number plates in 2" letters
* yellow flags require riders slow to walking speed single file in the accident zone
* track layout requires 80% visible from primary spectator viewing area (bleacher zone)

There's a bunch that are potentially achievable. I'm sure there are many more. The reality is until those in charge even perceive a need for change it won't matter. He who holds the contract makes the rules.

I'm surprised that DMG hasn't attempted to move the series into Nascar infields already, but as we can see, that is coming..

mmcmx
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8/29/2016 12:05am
zehn wrote:
Are they really "core" fans then? Personally, I couldn't imagine something I'd rather watch than motocross racing, whether it be a tight battle for the lead...
Are they really "core" fans then?

Personally, I couldn't imagine something I'd rather watch than motocross racing, whether it be a tight battle for the lead (those never last more than a couple laps at most), or a 30+ second blowout because I love watching the art of motocross.

Artificially introducing some external factor to boost the "drama" or excitement of an otherwise organic form of sporting is completely asinine and severely jeopardizes the integrity of our sport.

Just my opinion. This post obviously ignores the casual fan who just wants to be entertained, but those types don't post here anyways.
x10000
kkawboy14
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8/29/2016 1:58am
There was only 4 top level racers at the last race in the 450 class.....
motomike137
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8/29/2016 4:24am
I think some of the tracks could definitely take a different approach to the prep. The endless straight away ruts at Unadilla really spoil that race imho. As for the racing I think it was for the most part awesome! I guess I am old school in that even on a day when Roczen runs away like he did at Red Bud I can stand and watch him go buy lap after lap and appreciate the artistry in how he rides. I don't think the outdoor format should be screwed with, you can't manufacture excitement and I love the sheer volume of time we get to watch these guys perform at a National.

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