A lot of Vital folks are going to hate this post

TXDirt
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TXDirt 8/15/2016 1:56pm
8/15/2016 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2016 1:59pm
BobPA wrote:
Have you even watched or attended any nationals? They are far from perfectly groomed unicorn tracks. I like taking a walk around the track after the...
Have you even watched or attended any nationals? They are far from perfectly groomed unicorn tracks. I like taking a walk around the track after the motos just to see how brutal they are....Dilla is always a big eye opener of how tough tracks can get...
I was being a bit facetious. Yes, I have even raced a few nationals in my day. The tracks are brutal. However, when I look at the GP's, those tracks are even gnarlier. I think that is why the GP riders seem to be excelling outdoors more and more.

To each there own.

I really enjoy seeing the riders being challenged by the tracks. Like I said, that second moto for Marvin was like a boxing match with Marvin vs the track and I thought it was quite enjoyable.

Last year, that second moto at Glenn Helen, no one was racing with Eli, but it was absolutely amazing how he was just demolishing that track. It was a brutal track and he just was doing so many great and creative things with it. It was as enjoyable to watch as any racing for me.
brimx153
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brimx153 8/15/2016 2:00pm
8/15/2016 2:00pm
leave the ruts in the turns take the ruts out of the straights ,EVERY race . it will still be bumpy . and will make it so that there is more than one line .
brimx153
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brimx153 8/15/2016 2:04pm
8/15/2016 2:04pm
BobPA wrote:
Have you even watched or attended any nationals? They are far from perfectly groomed unicorn tracks. I like taking a walk around the track after the...
Have you even watched or attended any nationals? They are far from perfectly groomed unicorn tracks. I like taking a walk around the track after the motos just to see how brutal they are....Dilla is always a big eye opener of how tough tracks can get...
TXDirt wrote:
I was being a bit facetious. Yes, I have even raced a few nationals in my day. The tracks are brutal. However, when I look at...
I was being a bit facetious. Yes, I have even raced a few nationals in my day. The tracks are brutal. However, when I look at the GP's, those tracks are even gnarlier. I think that is why the GP riders seem to be excelling outdoors more and more.

To each there own.

I really enjoy seeing the riders being challenged by the tracks. Like I said, that second moto for Marvin was like a boxing match with Marvin vs the track and I thought it was quite enjoyable.

Last year, that second moto at Glenn Helen, no one was racing with Eli, but it was absolutely amazing how he was just demolishing that track. It was a brutal track and he just was doing so many great and creative things with it. It was as enjoyable to watch as any racing for me.
the GP tracks are bumpy as hell , but most are not that rutty . and they are nt riped up deep like the usa
Kawi15
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Kawi15 8/15/2016 2:09pm
8/15/2016 2:09pm
While I can see some benefits to the ruts, I am not a fan of the ruts. I think they are great in turns, but I do think they limit the racing and line choices.

The Shop

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hillbilly
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hillbilly 8/15/2016 2:11pm
8/15/2016 2:11pm
It's always to much something.
Flip109
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Flip109 8/15/2016 2:13pm
8/15/2016 2:13pm
hillbilly wrote:
It's always to much something.
Amen honky
RG1
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RG1 8/15/2016 2:14pm
8/15/2016 2:14pm
The racing was incredibly boring. The ruts really didn't help at all. Wilson was P5 in moto 2 and his fastest lap was 9 seconds off the pace. The actual results may not have been any different with more track prep, but the riders would surely have been closer together?
Tbteam
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Tbteam 8/15/2016 2:25pm
8/15/2016 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2016 2:33pm
I guess I should clarify my intent with the original post.

If you look at Scottie's video above from the 89 race, that's the kind of track that Unadilla used to be. Watching today's incredibly talented riders blast around the track with their boots held up around the front number plate is a bit
ridiculous in my opinion.

I'm just being an old fart. Excuse my age, but I had the best weekend of my life there. It's all documented right here:


http://unadillausgp.blogspot.com
mark1960
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mark1960 8/15/2016 2:25pm
8/15/2016 2:25pm
I actually want to see less jumps / Supercross obsticles. This is MX.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 8/15/2016 2:30pm
8/15/2016 2:30pm
mark1960 wrote:
I actually want to see less jumps / Supercross obsticles. This is MX.
Most all the bad stuff happened in the turns
early
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early 8/15/2016 2:31pm
8/15/2016 2:31pm
Jimmy Albertson was on Matthes' review show and mentioned 2 things.

1. Technical ruts made racing slower and safer.

2. 2 red flags and impending biblical levels of rain caused the race program to be rushed so there was no time to alloted for maintenance.

Also i dont think the track was prepped to encourage ruts. The previous week saw a decent amount of rain and yes, there is no grass to hold the soil together.
HackMan162
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HackMan162 8/15/2016 2:37pm
8/15/2016 2:37pm
Back in the day it was acceleration bumps all the way until you got to the braking bumps. You "could" be rewarded by riding creative lines, on the edge of the track etc. Now the ruts keep you from changing lines...
Titan1
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Titan1 8/15/2016 2:38pm
8/15/2016 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2016 2:41pm
Titan1 wrote:
I want to see the best riders in the world riding the worlds most brutal tracks...that means long deep ruts, huge bumps, endless whoops, massive jumps...
I want to see the best riders in the world riding the worlds most brutal tracks...that means long deep ruts, huge bumps, endless whoops, massive jumps, cliff like hills (up and down), hard pack...I'd love it if the national tracks were NEVER groomed, ever. Put a little water on them to keep the dust down and let these dudes race.
Braap19 wrote:
Then maybe you should watch some GNCC races or harecrambles. Motocross is about racing people, that's what people pay for. Not solely surviving the track like...
Then maybe you should watch some GNCC races or harecrambles. Motocross is about racing people, that's what people pay for. Not solely surviving the track like you want.
I love me some GNCC and Hare Scrambles (and Hare and Hounds, and Enduro's, ISDE, Dakar, etc. for that matter)...but I think the very best riders in the world end up racing mx/sx (because that is where the most money is)...no disrespect to any of the off road pro's...they are incredible...But I want to see the moto guys ride tracks (no trees, big rocks, or roots or dust...so its still moto) so brutal I don't think I could even get around them.

It's okay if your opinion of what moto should be is different than mine though...no hard feelings.
davis224
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davis224 8/15/2016 2:51pm
8/15/2016 2:51pm
Not ripping the track won't make it smooth, just a different kind of rough. I've found with working on my own track that sections I leave grass on get rougher, because the tires are fighting against clumps/roots rather than just loam. There's still ruts in corners, but they don't get footpeg deep after 2 practices. Just a different type of rough, allows for more creative line choices rather than "this is where the first few guys in the first practice went, so that's the 3 lines we're going to use all day"
motomike137
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motomike137 8/15/2016 3:02pm
8/15/2016 3:02pm
Right on Tbteam! My feelings exactly! What a waste of the most historic track in the USA and some of the best riders in the world to have to ride a frigging slot car track. It sucked!
hillbilly
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hillbilly 8/15/2016 3:12pm
8/15/2016 3:12pm
You can change lines in track wide ruts. It takes riding in track wide ruts a lot to do it.

If they'd plowed it would been a gear grabbing rev limiter popping parade where no one can make time cause everyone is pinned.

I learned my rut riding in the mountains here which you can't do anymore and doing harescrambles in off season.
Beeby
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Beeby 8/15/2016 3:36pm
8/15/2016 3:36pm
There is a real trend of preparing every track the same, so the racing just moves from state to state riding tracks that are becoming more and more alike. You have got to have different surfaces, types of track and conditions to make it a series worth watching each week.

I thought it was good, it showed those with the real talent and exposed those without as much.

I heard the riders say it was tough, I didn't really hear anyone say they disliked it...
Moto810
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Moto810 8/15/2016 3:36pm
8/15/2016 3:36pm
Ruts in the turns are fine and I love them. However ruts everywhere? No thanks! They should had groomed the track after practice and the racing would had been better as well as safer.

If the ruts look nasty on TV then we know as riders those ruts were crazy in person!

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Pirate421
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Pirate421 8/15/2016 3:46pm
8/15/2016 3:46pm
seth505 wrote:
Does anyone actually think Webb and Kroc would have had challengers if there were no ruts?
kkawboy14 wrote:
No
No ruts at southwick and Roczen and Tomac were bar to bar and possibly some of the best racing all season.
dboivin
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dboivin 8/15/2016 3:59pm
8/15/2016 3:59pm
seth505 wrote:
Does anyone actually think Webb and Kroc would have had challengers if there were no ruts?
kkawboy14 wrote:
No
Pirate421 wrote:
No ruts at southwick and Roczen and Tomac were bar to bar and possibly some of the best racing all season.
this is true. was some of the best racing of the season IMO.
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/15/2016 4:00pm
8/15/2016 4:00pm
hillbilly wrote:
You can change lines in track wide ruts. It takes riding in track wide ruts a lot to do it. If they'd plowed it would been...
You can change lines in track wide ruts. It takes riding in track wide ruts a lot to do it.

If they'd plowed it would been a gear grabbing rev limiter popping parade where no one can make time cause everyone is pinned.

I learned my rut riding in the mountains here which you can't do anymore and doing harescrambles in off season.
That was Hangtown this year. Heavy rain was expected, so they packed the track down. Then it didn't come and they didn't have time to prep deep and wet. They ended up with hard and fast, and no passing happened cause everyone was pinned all the way round.

Personally I'd rather ride it that way than ruts everywhere, but that's just cause I really suck in ruts.

Mike
Richard Tease II 8/15/2016 4:12pm
8/15/2016 4:12pm
If one thing only for safety is to get rid of the ruts in the landing areas and faces of the jumps.
kzizok
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kzizok 8/15/2016 4:24pm
8/15/2016 4:24pm
I do have some good news about the rut problem. It is self limiting and will take care of itself after the 22 race supercross gets under way. Like I said before, Im not a pessimist but an optometrist, glass half full type of guy.
project racer
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project racer 8/15/2016 4:40pm
8/15/2016 4:40pm
The analytical rider does not let a crappy track interfere with the racing.
motomike137
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motomike137 8/15/2016 4:50pm
8/15/2016 4:50pm
None of this really matters because in a few short years all the pro races in the USA will be in stadiums and all of MXGP will be at "purpose built" tracks. Old school natural terrain tracks will go the way of the dodo bird.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 8/15/2016 4:56pm
8/15/2016 4:56pm
Tbteam wrote:
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic. The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest...
My last visit to Unadilla was the 1983 250 MXGP. Incredible track, truly epic.

The slot car course that they ran on yesterday was the biggest POS I've seen in a while. I know that most of you will disagree, but holy crap, that sucked. Give me the tall grass to your handlebars track from back then.

"Pick a rut, and hope the rut the guy next to you picked doesn't intersect with your rut."
Totally agree, the tracks these days are being force to make all the dirt the same with the same basic cookie cutter designs. Unadilla sucked. If I didn't know any better, its almost like these tracks are being made to suck in an attempt to bring about a 22 race SX series.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 8/15/2016 5:03pm
8/15/2016 5:03pm
I think its time for the good outdoor tracks to start their own series. All the old school tracks that everyone has grown up with. Let each track run there dirt and layout like they always have. Every track had a certain flavor they brought to the series, dirt was different at each track, layouts different. Most of that has been pretty much removed now. Track being force to change design, haul in dirt, internet access and ass smooching areas for press.

We also don't need 17 VIP sections blocking of the best viewer access to the track, first come first serve. Or the t-shirt sales truck parked blocking view of the track, put them things out by the parking area or food area. If we want a shirt, we will find you.
Vet57
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Vet57 8/16/2016 4:39am
8/16/2016 4:39am
Totally agree with the negative vibes about the "New Unadilla". In my opinion the only positive addition was back in 04' when they added the massive up/downhill in the back section which was promptly removed as well. Also they ruined the beautiful old downhill start when they flattened it. Guess we'll just keep watching the old videos of a better track.
Andy_Greenney 8/16/2016 5:34am
8/16/2016 5:34am
The more technical the track gets the more spacing you get between riders. A difference in ability that translates to 0.5 sec a lap on a smooth 'cookie cutter' track opens out to 2 secs on a rough rutted technical track....the bar to bar racing diminishes.

Do you want to see bar bar racing, or the best riders giving a lesson in technical riding...I prefer the later if I have to choose, the general public probably wouldn't agree.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 8/16/2016 5:50am
8/16/2016 5:50am
AP was 5 seconds faster at the end of 250m1 ,what line was he taking?

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