What is your Chase suggestion?

andymoto
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4/30/2016 10:00am
You've flipped a bit from your previous post, originally you said "[i]They don't tally up points in football or baseball, and they don't tally up wins...
You've flipped a bit from your previous post, originally you said "They don't tally up points in football or baseball, and they don't tally up wins and then reset them". Again, they clearly do reset the wins (while continuing the tally wins for records / streaks) by putting everyone that makes it to the playoffs in professional sports on the same playing field, "win and move on".

Unlike Football (sticking with football) I would imagine that the riders would have something like 4 races in the post-season to prove they should move on which is sort of like 4 quarters of football, of which the "Super Bowl" of Supercross would be another 3-4 races... it's not like they are going to reset the points going into Vegas.

As far as devisions and what not, if we had enough participation I'd imagine we would go this route as well, we're just too small of a sport.
There is a difference between sports that count win/loss and one's that use a points based system. In football, baseball, etc, they do not reset anything...
There is a difference between sports that count win/loss and one's that use a points based system. In football, baseball, etc, they do not reset anything, they to a playoff system where they win or are eliminated. Their win/loss record remains the same whether they move on or not. In chase, they are talking about taking points away that a rider earned. Given that you have divisions and a win/loss record it makes sense to have playoffs to see who the best team is. In supercross, there is no need for that since the points speak for themselves.

Chase = bad idea, no matter how you put it. The best argument that chase supporters have offered is that it may make it more exciting come the reset which is a poor argument given my above explanations.


Jeff Gordon had an amazing season in '05 (?) and was headed to his 5th Winston Cup title, he had over 300 pt. lead that he had to give up, then when Tony Stewart barely made his Chase, he wins his last title. Lost how many times NASCAR has tweaked it so far. I barely watch them just because of it's only 10-12 real races that count. Probably the old school in me.
The Rock
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4/30/2016 10:04am
10000hrs wrote:
Rock, How about if you assume the role of unofficial editor of these concepts ( seems like you are already) and propose the three best for...
Rock,

How about if you assume the role of unofficial editor of these concepts ( seems like you are already) and propose the three best for a Vital poll? I doubt that there is a group of better informed people ( and certainly no group with stronger opinions) in the MX community to shuss out what they want to see. Hopefully the powers that be would take a look.
dkg wrote:
For any poll to be valid, it would have to include the option of no chase. Let's not play politics with this and actually create a...
For any poll to be valid, it would have to include the option of no chase. Let's not play politics with this and actually create a valid poll.
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a living/surviving but no worries I'm confident the right people will see everyone's suggestions.

dkg for any poll to be valid the options must all be viable/possible. As I understand it the Chase ship has already sailed so an option of no Chase would be as meaningful as me preparing to qualify for the 450 class at A1 in January.

tropicpilot-Thank you for the feedback. Why debate the merits of the chase in this thread when 1) the 3 and 3 thread already exists and 2) the Chase will happen so it is a waste of time to provide feedback on why the Chase shouldn't.
akillerwombat
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4/30/2016 10:06am
There is a difference between sports that count win/loss and one's that use a points based system. In football, baseball, etc, they do not reset anything...
There is a difference between sports that count win/loss and one's that use a points based system. In football, baseball, etc, they do not reset anything, they to a playoff system where they win or are eliminated. Their win/loss record remains the same whether they move on or not. In chase, they are talking about taking points away that a rider earned. Given that you have divisions and a win/loss record it makes sense to have playoffs to see who the best team is. In supercross, there is no need for that since the points speak for themselves.

Chase = bad idea, no matter how you put it. The best argument that chase supporters have offered is that it may make it more exciting come the reset which is a poor argument given my above explanations.


"football, baseball, etc, they do not reset anything, they to a playoff system where they win or are eliminated".

This is a reset in points for anyone that makes it to the playoffs. If it wasn't it wouldn't be the playoffs, it would just simply be game #19.... and there wouldn't be a Super Bowl because someone like the Patriots would probably clinch the championship a few games early.

All I'm trying to do is say, prove, I don't know, that this idea of "ONLY POINT TOTALS SHOW THE REAL CHAMPION" around the discussion is kind of crazy. We hold a so many athletes in high regards in which their sports revolve around a more traditional tournament format that it's proven it won't all of a sudden make a shitty football team into a miracle at the end season and it wont destroy the championship of someone who works hard for it, the cream always rises. It just rises a bit more condensed.

Thoughts on other ideas:
Change the tracks – you can't make it too slow because that's less exciting. While supercross is technical as fuck the "casual viewer" isn't looking at which finger the rider uses for the clutch, pointer or middle. Besides, "These are the best supercross riders in the world" - Emig, they're going to adapt and find speed pretty quick and all of a sudden we're back at, "we need slower tracks".

Less people in the main - Boo that, keep it what it is. Not only does it mean we can keep a main event pure like it's been for records but look how exciting going through lap traffic has been. You want to that slows down a track; lappers slow down tracks.

Points increase as the season goes on! - And we're afraid of Chase format because of how it might make a mid-pack rider into a midnight hero? Somehow... over four races (where I think the final reset should happen) this mystery rider would shock the world and beat Dungey... four times... at the end of a season. Just imagine having Vegas being this crazy point multiplier race and someone jumping from 6th to 1st because Dungey gets a flat. Not to mention that no one does this, it's confusing, it feels like doing tricks in a motocross game (other than a whip, a taunt whip, or a NacNac), and the amount of times I would have to look up what the point increase was for the week would be pretty unnecessary.

Two main events - good bye records. Right then everything Dungey is working on is dead in the water. It would also mean shorter mains which I am against because I find it enjoyable to see who's prepared like a champ to run a full 20 and who didn't.

Less Races - I honestly love this one. Keeps the points race closer, someone could still run away with it, but at least it wouldn't be a whole second half of the season. Biggest problem with this though is that you don't really grow a sport by removing your face from television. We get some solid numbers, and with the new Stadiums it's had a huge impact on viewership.

It's an interesting thing to talk about it – I'm enjoying looking at what we can do to improve it.

Zracer
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4/30/2016 10:23am
The Rock wrote:
Can we use the 3 and 3 thread to bag on the Chase concept and use this thread just for different proposals please? According one of...
Can we use the 3 and 3 thread to bag on the Chase concept and use this thread just for different proposals please?

According one of my sources while the Chase is a definite the structure of the Chase is NOT cast in stone yet so here are my suggestions:

1) Drop your two worst finishes in the series with the stipulation if you have to have made the main for the event you're dropping. If you didn't qualify or missed the event due to injury or visa issue tough bananas.

2) Change the point structure 25 23 22 21 20 for top five.

I don't like the idea of resetting the points but I do like the idea of tightening things up a bit.
Just say no.

The Shop

mark_swart
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4/30/2016 10:38am
My Chase thoughts:

-Chase begins after Easter break

-No points reset.

-Something along the line of double points with an even bigger swing between 1-3: 60 for 1st, 50 2nd, 30 3rd but keep 4-22 to the same points structure.

-I wouldn't be against the idea of limiting chase rounds to the top 22 riders in points only. Make the final rounds the best of the best only.

And whatever, WHAT EVER, they do, NO GREEN PLATES. I went to Arenacross a few weeks back and the green plates with white numbers were a nightmare to see (especially for teams who use the same gear for all the riders.) Chase plates should be silver or gold, if we really insist on a different color.
Ted722
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4/30/2016 10:55am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2016 10:57am
Split the show into 2 series:

12 Race SX series (6 West / 6 East).

5 Race Monster Energy Cup series (450 and 250 classes)

- use their unique format. large purse.

- top 3 in 250's "regular season" SX series (East/West...6 total) mandatory to race 450 class
Flip109
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4/30/2016 11:27am
This shit really is going to turn into a circus I think lol
andymoto
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4/30/2016 11:44am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2016 11:48am
andymoto wrote:
Re-read your original post Michael. Tightening points sound far more reasonable with the two throw outs. One for fastest in qualifying and the 2 heat winners...
Re-read your original post Michael. Tightening points sound far more reasonable with the two throw outs. One for fastest in qualifying and the 2 heat winners since all 40 on the line.
The Rock wrote:
The two throw outs I took from F1 a few decades ago and someone I have immense respect for suggested the points restructure. I am not...
The two throw outs I took from F1 a few decades ago and someone I have immense respect for suggested the points restructure.

I am not understanding your last sentence but want to. Please clarify. Thank you.

Whatever the Chase winds up being I hope it will be straightforward for a couple of reasons:

1) I'm easily confused
2) I don't want to have to take my shoes off to deal with complicated math.
Fastest in qualifying a point or top 5 (Fast 5) get from 5 down to 1 pt. Might help someone who gets clipped at start. But the best always find a way. Only heat races winners get a point (maybe more) and it's the only time all 40 in night program have shot to get that point. Hope cleared my mess Michael. Smile

Oh, my biggest worry is incentives causing even more injuries than now. Don't know the percentage of riders gone more than 2 races in recent yrs, seems enough.

Please don't take the NASCAR post personal. Saw an entrance in and wanted to vent. Evil
ando
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4/30/2016 11:59am
Mr. Info wrote:
Only 13 rounds and the 13th is in Vegas. Gives Feld a chance to sell out their races, more people watching on TV, The riders can...
Only 13 rounds and the 13th is in Vegas. Gives Feld a chance to sell out their races, more people watching on TV, The riders can have a couple more off weekends so they can recover from injuries. It also allows for some better outdoor testing leading into the outdoors and it would make the racing better as the points would be tighter going into the last round. Ticket prices and parking could be cheaper because of sellouts making the stadiums more money. Make the show better, do away with all the fireworks and gas flames and bring back what it was racing. Tracks not so fast, tighter and more technical. IMO
The Rock wrote:
What business are you aware of that would reduce their income by 25 percent just because?

I'm not aware of any.
They won't, but the real root cause of this issue is that the season is too long.
4/30/2016 12:25pm
The Rock wrote:
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a...
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a living/surviving but no worries I'm confident the right people will see everyone's suggestions.

dkg for any poll to be valid the options must all be viable/possible. As I understand it the Chase ship has already sailed so an option of no Chase would be as meaningful as me preparing to qualify for the 450 class at A1 in January.

tropicpilot-Thank you for the feedback. Why debate the merits of the chase in this thread when 1) the 3 and 3 thread already exists and 2) the Chase will happen so it is a waste of time to provide feedback on why the Chase shouldn't.
Rock,

For my part;

1) Yeah, when I started the 3 on 3 thread, it was mostly to debate the validity of having a Chase format. By the time I weighed in on this thread, there were already a number of wild suggestions and their merits were already being debated by other members. In this thread, my first post was to propose that we make changes to the tracks, not the points system, so I was keeping within your original intent.

2) Even if the rumor is true and it's a foregone conclusion that Feld is going to implement a Chase-style system, that is hardly going to end the debate. They are contemplating a radical change, and they had better get it right or they could really screw with the integrity of the sport. My comments didn't really feel like a waste of time and I guess I was just having a little fun my Mr. T meme. You seem pretty intent on moderating this thread and I felt like lightening the mood. No hard feelings, brother.
Falcon
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4/30/2016 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2016 3:22pm
My chase thoughts:

1) Supercross isn't broken
2) Don't try to fix what isn't broken
3) The entire idea of a Chase format sucks.
NotCore
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4/30/2016 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2016 3:42pm
The Rock wrote:
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a...
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a living/surviving but no worries I'm confident the right people will see everyone's suggestions.

dkg for any poll to be valid the options must all be viable/possible. As I understand it the Chase ship has already sailed so an option of no Chase would be as meaningful as me preparing to qualify for the 450 class at A1 in January.

tropicpilot-Thank you for the feedback. Why debate the merits of the chase in this thread when 1) the 3 and 3 thread already exists and 2) the Chase will happen so it is a waste of time to provide feedback on why the Chase shouldn't.
Congratulations, you've hit on a unique paradigm. Start a thread on a board, but suggest that only people that agree with you should participate. After all, there are other threads that allow for disagreement, right?

Accepting your context implies that a chase under any set of rules is acceptable, and it is not to the majority.
dkg
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4/30/2016 4:35pm
10000hrs wrote:
Rock, How about if you assume the role of unofficial editor of these concepts ( seems like you are already) and propose the three best for...
Rock,

How about if you assume the role of unofficial editor of these concepts ( seems like you are already) and propose the three best for a Vital poll? I doubt that there is a group of better informed people ( and certainly no group with stronger opinions) in the MX community to shuss out what they want to see. Hopefully the powers that be would take a look.
dkg wrote:
For any poll to be valid, it would have to include the option of no chase. Let's not play politics with this and actually create a...
For any poll to be valid, it would have to include the option of no chase. Let's not play politics with this and actually create a valid poll.
The Rock wrote:
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a...
10000hrs thanks for the suggestion but as the young man I've worked with for over 3 years says "not my table." I am busy making a living/surviving but no worries I'm confident the right people will see everyone's suggestions.

dkg for any poll to be valid the options must all be viable/possible. As I understand it the Chase ship has already sailed so an option of no Chase would be as meaningful as me preparing to qualify for the 450 class at A1 in January.

tropicpilot-Thank you for the feedback. Why debate the merits of the chase in this thread when 1) the 3 and 3 thread already exists and 2) the Chase will happen so it is a waste of time to provide feedback on why the Chase shouldn't.
I wasn't aware that ship had sailed. Nonetheless, I feel no chase should still be included. If for nothing else, the satisfaction of being able to say "I told you so". If and when it ends up being a mess. Seriously, though, I'd still evaluate all options, just have a no chase bias.
Mr. Info
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4/30/2016 5:33pm
It will be the end of SX if they do it.
jmx411
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4/30/2016 5:43pm
Supercross isn't broken. What's happening is Dungey has learned how to dominate the race.

Gretzy did the same thing to hockey. They had to change the rules because he destroyed so many records.
wreckitrandy
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4/30/2016 5:49pm
NJ race looks like a pretty good turn out for a boring, meaningless, broken series. Boom! Wey goes ballistic. This sport sucks. Lets fix it...

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