sand bagging at LL'S

peelout719
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8/5/2009 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2009 1:35pm
i used to "sandbag" my buddies if they passed out at a party
SIMX
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8/5/2009 2:05pm
Tomac just won by a minute!

Sandbagger, or is the 39 other racers just that shitty?
jbomx363
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8/5/2009 2:14pm
Toste wrote:
Wouldn't all this shit just get put to rest if LL et al was only open to A riders? Aren't the Amateur Nationals supposed to be...
Wouldn't all this shit just get put to rest if LL et al was only open to A riders? Aren't the Amateur Nationals supposed to be about racing for the absolute top tier amateurs? What is the point of B & C titles (besides causing rampant sandbagging all over the country)? I still haven't seen a good argument against it. People say MXsports wouldn't like it because it would cut back on entries (a.k.a. $$$), but why does it have to? Why couldn't the spots for current B & C riders just get turned over to more A riders?
No.

You have to have building blocks, something for the younger and slower racers to aspire to, thus the reason for all of the classes.

This is the top 42 racers in the country and each (non-rulebreaker, didn't get caught at it) has my respect for sure.

As long as they play by the rules, even if they do wax the entire field in their class, that's okay in my book.
Toste
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8/5/2009 2:29pm
jbomx363 wrote:
No. You have to have building blocks, something for the younger and slower racers to aspire to, thus the reason for all of the classes. This...
No.

You have to have building blocks, something for the younger and slower racers to aspire to, thus the reason for all of the classes.

This is the top 42 racers in the country and each (non-rulebreaker, didn't get caught at it) has my respect for sure.

As long as they play by the rules, even if they do wax the entire field in their class, that's okay in my book.
That seems contradictory to me. Giving people reasons to turn A is what makes them aspire to it. Rewarding riders with contengencies and National titles for staying down is the opposite of that.

As far as "building blocks" go, why can't a rider learn just as much (if not more) battling mid-pack in A as opposed to stomping ass all alone out front in B?

The Shop

8/5/2009 2:31pm
Toste, did you race Suzukis around socal about 84?
Toste
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8/5/2009 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2009 2:36pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Toste, did you race Suzukis around socal about 84?
My cousin Tony did. He rode pro in the early '80s in SoCal.
Nerd
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8/5/2009 5:46pm
JB 19 wrote:
I'm proud to say that I never raced one moto in the C class. If my newborn son ever decides he wants to race he won't...
I'm proud to say that I never raced one moto in the C class. If my newborn son ever decides he wants to race he won't either.

If he wants to we have a long talk about personal pride.
Nerd wrote:
Amazing. Never a single C race, huh? So every single mini race you did was an age class and then you moved up to big bikes...
Amazing. Never a single C race, huh?

So every single mini race you did was an age class and then you moved up to big bikes and were already B?

That's pretty amazing. Most people actually have to work their way up in speed. How did you not end up with a factory ride with that kind of talent?
JB 19 wrote:
Well, the rule used to state that if you had more than 2 years racing experience you couldn't race C. In Ohio it was common for...
Well, the rule used to state that if you had more than 2 years racing experience you couldn't race C. In Ohio it was common for kids to go straight from 80's to B.....and do very well.....even on a national level.


You speak like a cherry pickin C rider.



btw, I raced 50's, 60's and 80's at LL's, which would have disqualified me from the C class anyway.
And on the local level, you never had races that were divided by skill level not age?
8/5/2009 6:13pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Toste, did you race Suzukis around socal about 84?
Toste wrote:
My cousin Tony did. He rode pro in the early '80s in SoCal.
Yep, that was his name, figured it was you.
JB 19
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8/5/2009 6:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:21am
Nerd wrote:
And on the local level, you never had races that were divided by skill level not age?
To try to answer your question, when I moved up to big bikes I went straight to B, as did nearly all of the kids I grew up racing with. If you were a mini rider growing up and racing big races you have no business in the C class.


The C class was started for guys who watched a buddy race and thought it looked fun so they went out and bought a bike and raced the next week.......not for kids who have raced for 5 years and are jumping triples and blitzing the whoops.


The C class at LL's is bogus.
jbomx363
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8/5/2009 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:21am
JB 19 wrote:
To try to answer your question, when I moved up to big bikes I went straight to B, as did nearly all of the kids I...
To try to answer your question, when I moved up to big bikes I went straight to B, as did nearly all of the kids I grew up racing with. If you were a mini rider growing up and racing big races you have no business in the C class.


The C class was started for guys who watched a buddy race and thought it looked fun so they went out and bought a bike and raced the next week.......not for kids who have raced for 5 years and are jumping triples and blitzing the whoops.


The C class at LL's is bogus.
Bogus?


Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change.


When there are rules, someone will break them, cheat them, or follow them. Hopefully, there are more that follow them and deserve what comes their way, instead of the cheaters gaining what's not earned.
8/5/2009 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:21am
Nerd wrote:
Amazing. Never a single C race, huh? So every single mini race you did was an age class and then you moved up to big bikes...
Amazing. Never a single C race, huh?

So every single mini race you did was an age class and then you moved up to big bikes and were already B?

That's pretty amazing. Most people actually have to work their way up in speed. How did you not end up with a factory ride with that kind of talent?
JB 19 wrote:
Well, the rule used to state that if you had more than 2 years racing experience you couldn't race C. In Ohio it was common for...
Well, the rule used to state that if you had more than 2 years racing experience you couldn't race C. In Ohio it was common for kids to go straight from 80's to B.....and do very well.....even on a national level.


You speak like a cherry pickin C rider.



btw, I raced 50's, 60's and 80's at LL's, which would have disqualified me from the C class anyway.
Nerd wrote:
And on the local level, you never had races that were divided by skill level not age?
When I moved up from 80s, I went straight to the Int class,nothing new or different about that.In SoCal,all the CRC,CMC and NMA 80 expert riders all went straight to the int class. The 80 intermediate riders rode novice and the 80 novices were aloud to race the begginer class.

Kehoe first race on a 125 he raced the 125 int class and lapped to third place.


Jabjr222
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8/5/2009 6:50pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Bogus? Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change. When there are rules, someone will break...
Bogus?


Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change.


When there are rules, someone will break them, cheat them, or follow them. Hopefully, there are more that follow them and deserve what comes their way, instead of the cheaters gaining what's not earned.
Going by your other posts on this matter, you sure seem defensive. I mean, you are so quick to defend the "rules" of being a C rider. So, just a question, but did you get accused of sandbagging often?

Sure, there are rules, but there is also whats right and whats not. If a "c" rider shows up and has times as fast as the mid pack A guys, is that really a C rider? The answer, no.
JB 19
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8/5/2009 6:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:21am
JB 19 wrote:
To try to answer your question, when I moved up to big bikes I went straight to B, as did nearly all of the kids I...
To try to answer your question, when I moved up to big bikes I went straight to B, as did nearly all of the kids I grew up racing with. If you were a mini rider growing up and racing big races you have no business in the C class.


The C class was started for guys who watched a buddy race and thought it looked fun so they went out and bought a bike and raced the next week.......not for kids who have raced for 5 years and are jumping triples and blitzing the whoops.


The C class at LL's is bogus.
jbomx363 wrote:
Bogus? Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change. When there are rules, someone will break...
Bogus?


Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change.


When there are rules, someone will break them, cheat them, or follow them. Hopefully, there are more that follow them and deserve what comes their way, instead of the cheaters gaining what's not earned.
I didn't mean MX Sports or anything to that effect. I meant that a racer so serious they are at the amatuer nationals is not a C rider. They are at the least a B rider. If they don't do well they can get better and improve. The nationals should have no C class.


I can't stand how everyone wants to be a winner, and wants a class they can win.


Thats how its bogus.


Don't get me started on the whole Vet C,B, and A classes.
8/5/2009 8:59pm
I rode with a buddy's kid that I beat all the time play riding. Well he was on an 85 and I was on a 125...
I rode with a buddy's kid that I beat all the time play riding. Well he was on an 85 and I was on a 125 back then, as soon as he got on the big bike, it took him all of a a few weeks and he was blowing by me like i was standing still!!

So, some of the fast kids who on most minis run top 10 times for even A class should move to intermediate upon going to big bikes, only fair in my books. Otherwise they are sandbagging.
Nerd wrote:
Because the one kid you knew defied the norm?

Kevin Windham went from 80cc Expert to 125/250cc Intermediate. Was he a cheater?
jeffro756 wrote:
Nope Kevin didn't cheat, if he had dropped to the c class for any reason then yes he did cheat. The move from 80s is always...
Nope Kevin didn't cheat, if he had dropped to the c class for any reason then yes he did cheat. The move from 80s is always a tough one cause that is a big jump in displacement, but I still think you know how to ride. The traditions of the c class were that you were brand new at this whole thing, and c class national championships seem silly.
Yes, exactly. Thank you!!!
wardy
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8/5/2009 10:19pm
ok gentlemen.

at the end of the week. no matter what.

who ever wins the C classes.


will still be.


the fastest "slow" guy out there. why is there a championship for a beginner class???

nevermind. I do know that answer.... Smile
oldx
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8/5/2009 11:12pm
Friday wrote:
That does it! I'm going to LL's next year and I'm moving down a class. I'll be 47 so I'll just run the 30+ class instead...
That does it! I'm going to LL's next year and I'm moving down a class. I'll be 47 so I'll just run the 30+ class instead of the 45+. If everyone else drops down and sandbags,I will too.Wink
You're moving down the wrong direction.
PaleBlue
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8/6/2009 12:56am
Self nominated A,B, Cs etc... is just all crap!
The fastest riders should be in the 'A' group regardless and every other group should be regarded as inferior (on a sliding scale) supporting races.
If there was no value to winning in the other groups then this nonsense would stop pretty quickly.
Surely the only reason it is how it is now is so that the organizers will get more entries / money?

Posted this on Eli Tomac thread ( same theme diff' name!)
8/6/2009 1:40am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2009 1:57am
Some work the system harder than a welfare recepient.
jbomx363
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8/6/2009 6:31am
jbomx363 wrote:
Bogus? Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change. When there are rules, someone will break...
Bogus?


Theres rules for that class too. Don't like em? Come up with better rules and make a change.


When there are rules, someone will break them, cheat them, or follow them. Hopefully, there are more that follow them and deserve what comes their way, instead of the cheaters gaining what's not earned.
Jabjr222 wrote:
Going by your other posts on this matter, you sure seem defensive. I mean, you are so quick to defend the "rules" of being a C...
Going by your other posts on this matter, you sure seem defensive. I mean, you are so quick to defend the "rules" of being a C rider. So, just a question, but did you get accused of sandbagging often?

Sure, there are rules, but there is also whats right and whats not. If a "c" rider shows up and has times as fast as the mid pack A guys, is that really a C rider? The answer, no.
Not at all. I'm a below C rider. If I ever get called a sandbagger, I'm going to have that person put it in writing and I'll frame it!

"Sure, there are rules, but there is also whats right and whats not."

That's surely subjective isn't it? Is it not better to have rules than not and take out the subjectivity of it?

I'm defensive of the rules/process. I don't know if the C dude is a sandbagger or not.

If he wasn't protested in the time frame allowed, tough crap.

People want to change the rules, then do it and quit bitchin about how they aren't fair, blah blah blah. Don't crucify those that apparently have played by them. What's that saying? Hate the game, not the player?
zookrider62!
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8/6/2009 1:05pm
wardy wrote:
ok gentlemen. at the end of the week. no matter what. who ever wins the C classes. will still be. the fastest "slow" guy out there...
ok gentlemen.

at the end of the week. no matter what.

who ever wins the C classes.


will still be.


the fastest "slow" guy out there. why is there a championship for a beginner class???

nevermind. I do know that answer.... Smile
Technically D is the beginner class.
8/6/2009 2:49pm
5. A rider may not participate in a "C" class if:

a. The rider has ever participated at the National in any previous year in any class;

b. The rider is receiving or has ever received any type of OEM factory support in any class;

c. The rider earned a Rider Performance Value (RPV) of 15 or higher the previous year in any class, including youth divisions; or

d. The rider has no RPV and raced prior to 2007 in 6 or more events at the age of 13 or older, and a calculation of the RPV based on those events provides a value of 15 or higher.

For more information regarding "C" class eligibility and to check RPV status, go to www.amadirectlink.com/amrace/advancement/index.asp.
My DAUGHTER raced at Loretta's in the GIRLS class she is not eligible for the "C" class.

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