Baker Factory Boys finish 1 & 2

mxb2
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mxb2 1/11/2016 9:34pm
1/11/2016 9:34pm
TheNewOriginal wrote:
And if Carmichael had stayed around, RV would have never won. Kind of an endless argument.
c0ncEpT wrote:
Thats a terrible comparison. Carmichael and Villopoto raced at different times. Villopoto straight up beat Dungeys ass for 5+ years while they raced the same class...
Thats a terrible comparison. Carmichael and Villopoto raced at different times. Villopoto straight up beat Dungeys ass for 5+ years while they raced the same class.

I'm not trying to discredit what Dungey has been doing in 2015+ but you have to look at the facts. His career will always been looked down upon because he was never able to beat Villopoto straight up.
DonM wrote:
What the F@#k is "Straight Up"????? Dumbest term that is over used...You want to throw an asterisk or two in there also?? RV was a great...
What the F@#k is "Straight Up"????? Dumbest term that is over used...You want to throw an asterisk or two in there also??
RV was a great champion and rider, Dungey is a great rider and champion that when all is said and done he will be one of the best ever.....but then again IF Stewart were able to keep it on two wheels neither RV or RD would be in the discussion right??? .....Friggin fanboys....
Thank god rc retired ,alot less wins,titles for the 3 mentioned
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/11/2016 9:40pm
1/11/2016 9:40pm
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
I would doubt Baker would not work with another rider just because of the one(s) he might be with, I also would assume it comes down to who Baker wants to work with rather then who wants to work with him? I also think money doesnt come into the equation either, I bet he has a nice income from that work he does though (not a criticism).
Ted722
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Ted722 1/11/2016 9:56pm
1/11/2016 9:56pm Edited Date/Time 1/11/2016 9:58pm
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
JS7's asking the same question. If Aldon and Dungey teamed up in late 2010...

- Dungey would have a few more championships indoor and out and would have retired at the end of the 2015 season.

- With Dungey retired, no racing incident at A1 2016. JS7 finishes top 3 taking 20 or more points to San Diego.
KDM711
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KDM711 1/11/2016 11:07pm
1/11/2016 11:07pm
RC , RV , RD same results different years. But I do know that all his riders use MindFX and all the riders that weren't using went backwards. Nice work Aldon and JA21

The Shop

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/11/2016 11:25pm
1/11/2016 11:25pm
I do wonder if not being in Baker's programme preys on the other rider's minds? Do the Baker boys have a mental edge heading into round 2?
dirtworldmx
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dirtworldmx 1/12/2016 1:48am
1/12/2016 1:48am
Baker is great at picking winners, cutting his losses, and adding some value to his investments. He's basically the Warren Buffett of MX trainers.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2016 5:24am
1/12/2016 5:24am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2016 5:25am
kkawboy14 wrote:
If Jason wins the Championship this year, that would solidly make Baker the undisputed Champion Maker!
UpTiTe wrote:
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained. Now, if you want to talk champoon maker...
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained.

Now, if you want to talk champoon maker, that would be the guy that started with RC at 15 and won 5 titles with him. He also took in a titless Dungey and won 4 titles with him and took a top 5 Jeremy Martin in and win 2 titles with him. That's also the same guy who taught Aldon about mx training and got him his first job.
Nobody would have ever expected Jason to win a 450 title if he wasn't with Baker. Man most people didn't think he would survive a year of Bakers training program.
UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 1/12/2016 5:40am
1/12/2016 5:40am
kkawboy14 wrote:
If Jason wins the Championship this year, that would solidly make Baker the undisputed Champion Maker!
UpTiTe wrote:
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained. Now, if you want to talk champoon maker...
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained.

Now, if you want to talk champoon maker, that would be the guy that started with RC at 15 and won 5 titles with him. He also took in a titless Dungey and won 4 titles with him and took a top 5 Jeremy Martin in and win 2 titles with him. That's also the same guy who taught Aldon about mx training and got him his first job.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Nobody would have ever expected Jason to win a 450 title if he wasn't with Baker. Man most people didn't think he would survive a year...
Nobody would have ever expected Jason to win a 450 title if he wasn't with Baker. Man most people didn't think he would survive a year of Bakers training program.
Totally untrue, a lot of people in the industry said when he was 17 that if he ever decided to train he would be a monster. Guess what? In 2014 he decided to train and won a title without Aldon.

I'll admit, out of all the riders Aldon has trained, Jason has/will benefit the most because he was straight lazy. BUT, if he took training seriously under any other trainer, he would have the same results because he is such a talented rider.

.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2016 5:45am
1/12/2016 5:45am
UpTiTe wrote:
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained. Now, if you want to talk champoon maker...
How's that? Jason won a title before he signd on there............just like every other rider he had trained.

Now, if you want to talk champoon maker, that would be the guy that started with RC at 15 and won 5 titles with him. He also took in a titless Dungey and won 4 titles with him and took a top 5 Jeremy Martin in and win 2 titles with him. That's also the same guy who taught Aldon about mx training and got him his first job.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Nobody would have ever expected Jason to win a 450 title if he wasn't with Baker. Man most people didn't think he would survive a year...
Nobody would have ever expected Jason to win a 450 title if he wasn't with Baker. Man most people didn't think he would survive a year of Bakers training program.
UpTiTe wrote:
Totally untrue, a lot of people in the industry said when he was 17 that if he ever decided to train he would be a monster...
Totally untrue, a lot of people in the industry said when he was 17 that if he ever decided to train he would be a monster. Guess what? In 2014 he decided to train and won a title without Aldon.

I'll admit, out of all the riders Aldon has trained, Jason has/will benefit the most because he was straight lazy. BUT, if he took training seriously under any other trainer, he would have the same results because he is such a talented rider.

.
It's ok that we disagree, but I don't know anyone that picked him to win A1......he won that race, it wasn't given to him and that makes it pretty impressive.
UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 1/12/2016 5:45am
1/12/2016 5:45am
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed. The biggest difference in Dungey last year was getting a new bike he loves.
UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 1/12/2016 5:47am
1/12/2016 5:47am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It's ok that we disagree, but I don't know anyone that picked him to win A1......he won that race, it wasn't given to him and that...
It's ok that we disagree, but I don't know anyone that picked him to win A1......he won that race, it wasn't given to him and that makes it pretty impressive.
I agree, it was an impressive ride, but he would've done it with another trainer also, Aldo doesn't twist the throttle for them.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2016 5:52am
1/12/2016 5:52am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It's ok that we disagree, but I don't know anyone that picked him to win A1......he won that race, it wasn't given to him and that...
It's ok that we disagree, but I don't know anyone that picked him to win A1......he won that race, it wasn't given to him and that makes it pretty impressive.
UpTiTe wrote:
I agree, it was an impressive ride, but he would've done it with another trainer also, Aldo doesn't twist the throttle for them.
Maybe.....we will never know for sure now!
machine
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machine 1/12/2016 8:10am
1/12/2016 8:10am
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
UpTiTe wrote:
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed...
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed. The biggest difference in Dungey last year was getting a new bike he loves.
True..I remember that race, RV looked like a whole nother rider after that.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 1/12/2016 10:00am
1/12/2016 10:00am
I don't understand how people can speak in such absolutes when it comes to trainers. They all have the base of knowledge. The best trainer is the one who is able to connect with a specific athlete. If a guy knows what a rider needs, but can't get that rider to buy-in he is not a good trainer for that rider no matter who he is.
Silliker269
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Silliker269 1/12/2016 10:13am
1/12/2016 10:13am
Perhaps the riders that go to Baker just really really want to win ?
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2016 10:39am
1/12/2016 10:39am
Silliker269 wrote:
Perhaps the riders that go to Baker just really really want to win ?
Your dumb Smile

Let's see how many people pick him to win this week in the thread for this weekend
DMG
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DMG 1/12/2016 10:50am
1/12/2016 10:50am
Silliker269 wrote:
Perhaps the riders that go to Baker just really really want to win ?
Or perhaps they are just more talented?

If I trained Dungey I could see it now, everyone on Vitard would be like "DMG,DMG,DMG,DMG.........and Id just stand there, with my arms crossed, wearing nothing but a cock ring.
mxb2
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mxb2 1/12/2016 11:00am
1/12/2016 11:00am
Silliker269 wrote:
Perhaps the riders that go to Baker just really really want to win ?
DMG wrote:
Or perhaps they are just more talented? If I trained Dungey I could see it now, everyone on Vitard would be like "DMG,DMG,DMG,DMG.........and Id just stand...
Or perhaps they are just more talented?

If I trained Dungey I could see it now, everyone on Vitard would be like "DMG,DMG,DMG,DMG.........and Id just stand there, with my arms crossed, wearing nothing but a cock ring.
It takes talent and motivation. Some have both,pretty sure thats who baker wants

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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 1/12/2016 11:04am
1/12/2016 11:04am
Silliker269 wrote:
Perhaps the riders that go to Baker just really really want to win ?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Your dumb Smile

Let's see how many people pick him to win this week in the thread for this weekend
His dumb what? Smile
c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 1/12/2016 12:46pm
1/12/2016 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2016 12:47pm
TheNewOriginal wrote:
And if Carmichael had stayed around, RV would have never won. Kind of an endless argument.
c0ncEpT wrote:
Thats a terrible comparison. Carmichael and Villopoto raced at different times. Villopoto straight up beat Dungeys ass for 5+ years while they raced the same class...
Thats a terrible comparison. Carmichael and Villopoto raced at different times. Villopoto straight up beat Dungeys ass for 5+ years while they raced the same class.

I'm not trying to discredit what Dungey has been doing in 2015+ but you have to look at the facts. His career will always been looked down upon because he was never able to beat Villopoto straight up.
DonM wrote:
What the F@#k is "Straight Up"????? Dumbest term that is over used...You want to throw an asterisk or two in there also?? RV was a great...
What the F@#k is "Straight Up"????? Dumbest term that is over used...You want to throw an asterisk or two in there also??
RV was a great champion and rider, Dungey is a great rider and champion that when all is said and done he will be one of the best ever.....but then again IF Stewart were able to keep it on two wheels neither RV or RD would be in the discussion right??? .....Friggin fanboys....
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished
Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan boy.
YZ324
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YZ324 1/12/2016 1:08pm
1/12/2016 1:08pm
Ahh yesss The Fabulous Baker Boyzzz!
Adolf Hipster 1/12/2016 3:46pm
1/12/2016 3:46pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan...
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished
Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan boy.
RV's 2011 MX championship was not straight up
Reefer Sutherland
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Reefer Sutherland 1/12/2016 3:58pm
1/12/2016 3:58pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan...
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished
Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan boy.
Adolf Hipster wrote:
RV's 2011 MX championship was not straight up
Weak bait
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brimx153 1/12/2016 4:03pm
1/12/2016 4:03pm
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
UpTiTe wrote:
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed...
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed. The biggest difference in Dungey last year was getting a new bike he loves.
i agree with some of this . but i hate this once RV got on the 12 bike was the big difference . RD handed it to RV in southwich and led the entire race at steel city until he got held up by a back maker(when RV was on the 12 bike) . RD was very close to RV untill he got on the KTM . last year was the first year the KTM was not a disadvantage .how many more times and riders need to say it . that last KTM was a piece of crap . this new bike is a huge difference to dungey imo
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BobPA 1/12/2016 4:44pm
1/12/2016 4:44pm
brimx153 wrote:
i agree with some of this . but i hate this once RV got on the 12 bike was the big difference . RD handed it...
i agree with some of this . but i hate this once RV got on the 12 bike was the big difference . RD handed it to RV in southwich and led the entire race at steel city until he got held up by a back maker(when RV was on the 12 bike) . RD was very close to RV untill he got on the KTM . last year was the first year the KTM was not a disadvantage .how many more times and riders need to say it . that last KTM was a piece of crap . this new bike is a huge difference to dungey imo
Indoors I agree about the last gen KTM. But I think it worked pretty well outdoors....on both sides of the pond.
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51xc 1/12/2016 5:03pm
1/12/2016 5:03pm
kiwifan wrote:
I do wonder if not being in Baker's programme preys on the other rider's minds? Do the Baker boys have a mental edge heading into round...
I do wonder if not being in Baker's programme preys on the other rider's minds? Do the Baker boys have a mental edge heading into round 2?
no. unlike with rv, i think most contenders (tomac, roczen, trey, js, reed, barcia) know that with a good start they can beat dungey or anderson.
bents
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bents 1/12/2016 5:05pm
1/12/2016 5:05pm
bents wrote:
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV...
Here is a question to ponder. Say RD hired Baker when he had the chance after the 2010 season when he had the chance, denying RV the opportunity to work with him. How much doe the results change over that period of time. I would suggest a lot.
UpTiTe wrote:
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed...
None, the biggest difference in RVs program was him getting on a 2012 bike at Unidilla in 2011, up until that point Dungey matched his speed. The biggest difference in Dungey last year was getting a new bike he loves.
I get it, you don't have the same belief that I do about a trainer's impact on a riders result, and I do agree with you that ultimately the rider has to twist the throttle. What I am getting at is this: prior to Baker getting involved with RV, he was obviously fast but inconsistent and he was out of shape (if we use the standard he set while training with Baker), and heavier than he needed to be.

From what we have learned, Dungey had the first crack at hiring Baker but he turned the opportunity down (for him, too much cash at the time), and RV ponied up, because he knew (and admitted) that this segment of his program was not good, at all. We cannot dispute that this partnership paid big dividends prior to the new bike, but the bike did make a difference in 2012, no doubt.

But if we could rewind time and say that Dungey bit the bullet and hired Baker and RV was out in the cold, would he have been as dominant, and, would Dungey have in turn ended up on the pointy end of the stick over the following 5 years beginning in 2010? IMHO, yes.

I would also agree with you that the new bike made a difference for Dungey as well, no question. And Dungey going to KTM was a huge gamble and a huge leap of faith and it makes his achievements all the more impressive, especially for SX.

Maybe we can agree on one thing-if you ain't training, you ain't winning. 1 main event here or there, 1 moto here or there, but certainly no championships.
brimx153
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brimx153 1/12/2016 6:17pm
1/12/2016 6:17pm
brimx153 wrote:
i agree with some of this . but i hate this once RV got on the 12 bike was the big difference . RD handed it...
i agree with some of this . but i hate this once RV got on the 12 bike was the big difference . RD handed it to RV in southwich and led the entire race at steel city until he got held up by a back maker(when RV was on the 12 bike) . RD was very close to RV untill he got on the KTM . last year was the first year the KTM was not a disadvantage .how many more times and riders need to say it . that last KTM was a piece of crap . this new bike is a huge difference to dungey imo
BobPA wrote:
Indoors I agree about the last gen KTM. But I think it worked pretty well outdoors....on both sides of the pond.
i agree with that ,but still think it was a slight disadvantage to some other bands even in the outdoor s, i honestly think if you put Dungey or AC222 on any brand they would have won . I think the 350 for AC suited his style and the tracks in europe alot better .And was nt a disadvantage to Tony because it was a bike built for him .But in the US i really thought dungey went backwards .even if he won championships. (thats how good a rider he is imo). ps these new KTM seem to be a whole different ball game .
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Flatliner 1/12/2016 6:30pm
1/12/2016 6:30pm
c0ncEpT wrote:
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan...
Are you high? Straight up is exactly that. Every championship they both finished
Villopoto won. No one is talking about what ifs. Thats what happened.... Fan boy.
Adolf Hipster wrote:
RV's 2011 MX championship was not straight up
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
Weak bait
Not exactly. The guy ran out of gas with one lap to go and a 25 second lead.

Not really bait as much as fact.

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