For the newbs: there is only 1 GOAT. Just because you "think" someone is dominant, he's not.

FLmxer
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FLmxer 9/21/2015 9:13pm
9/21/2015 9:13pm
RC = goat
IceMan446
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IceMan446 9/21/2015 9:49pm
9/21/2015 9:49pm
Zracer wrote:
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he...
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he ever was, RC pushed the pace way past where MC was comfortable. RC just smoked him ,and MC was never mentally the same. MC had more wins but raced longer,the win percentage is about equal , but heads up RC just owned him after 2000. To the guys wanting to come back with..but MC got old... BS , he was still beating the other riders at the same rate as ever.
MC had already won SEVEN championships at that point.

He was at the end of his career, lets be honest. He had proven all he needed to.

Fact remains, RC isnt comparable to MC in supercross.

And by no means am I down playing what RC has accomplished. Because I am not.

But MC forever changed supercross. RC did the same for motocross.
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IceMan446 9/21/2015 9:52pm
9/21/2015 9:52pm
ridge wrote:
Matthes has a personal grievance with RC, so his opinion is slightly skewed...and I don't blame him. I'm pretty sure RC was a dick to him.
Matthes does.

But I don't. And I agree with his outlook on it.

You can't be considered the best, if you truly are not the best in both SX and MX.
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jeffro503 9/21/2015 10:04pm
9/21/2015 10:04pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 10:04pm
ridge wrote:
Matthes has a personal grievance with RC, so his opinion is slightly skewed...and I don't blame him. I'm pretty sure RC was a dick to him.
IceMan446 wrote:
Matthes does. But I don't. And I agree with his outlook on it. You can't be considered the best, if you truly are not the best...
Matthes does.

But I don't. And I agree with his outlook on it.

You can't be considered the best, if you truly are not the best in both SX and MX.
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.

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Park Boys
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Park Boys 9/21/2015 10:11pm
9/21/2015 10:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 10:13pm
Zracer wrote:
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he...
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he ever was, RC pushed the pace way past where MC was comfortable. RC just smoked him ,and MC was never mentally the same. MC had more wins but raced longer,the win percentage is about equal , but heads up RC just owned him after 2000. To the guys wanting to come back with..but MC got old... BS , he was still beating the other riders at the same rate as ever.
IceMan446 wrote:
MC had already won SEVEN championships at that point. He was at the end of his career, lets be honest. He had proven all he needed...
MC had already won SEVEN championships at that point.

He was at the end of his career, lets be honest. He had proven all he needed to.

Fact remains, RC isnt comparable to MC in supercross.

And by no means am I down playing what RC has accomplished. Because I am not.

But MC forever changed supercross. RC did the same for motocross.
Umm RC isint comparable with MC at SX? When the GOAT retired from full time racing he had won his 5th title at the age of 26... When MC won his 5th title in 98 he was 26... So yeah actually it was pretty close except for one of the guys had 10 more titles to add to those 5. The reason MC has the recored for most titles is because RC retired from title competition at 26. 15 titles after 10 years makes you the GOAT.
ridge
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ridge 9/21/2015 10:14pm
9/21/2015 10:14pm
jeffro503 wrote:
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever. So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine...
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.
I could be wrong, but I thought Everts beat RC at least once...maybe even lapped him once in the mud. The RC vowed to become an excellent mud rider, which he did.
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Park Boys 9/21/2015 10:17pm
9/21/2015 10:17pm
jeffro503 wrote:
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever. So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine...
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.
ridge wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought Everts beat RC at least once...maybe even lapped him once in the mud. The RC vowed to become an...
I could be wrong, but I thought Everts beat RC at least once...maybe even lapped him once in the mud. The RC vowed to become an excellent mud rider, which he did.
Also when Everts beat RC he was on a 125 vs a 250. RC and Everts lined up behind 5 gate drops in the same class and every time RC won on Everts side of the world. He would have been embarrassed on a AMA track against RC.
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jeffro503 9/21/2015 10:22pm
9/21/2015 10:22pm
jeffro503 wrote:
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever. So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine...
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.
ridge wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought Everts beat RC at least once...maybe even lapped him once in the mud. The RC vowed to become an...
I could be wrong, but I thought Everts beat RC at least once...maybe even lapped him once in the mud. The RC vowed to become an excellent mud rider, which he did.
Well I'll be damned and stand corrected. Huge props to Stefan then! Besides the fact , Stefan is one of my all time favorite racers , so if he got a win against RC , then good on him.
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IceMan446 9/21/2015 10:24pm
9/21/2015 10:24pm
jeffro503 wrote:
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever. So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine...
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.
Thats where we differ in opinion. Not that I don't see your side of it.

But "reasoning" tells me, they have two number one plates for each discipline for a reason. They don't combine points for both series and award a title for the combined total of points.

To be the best, you have to be the best at both IMO

RC wasn't the best in supercross and at the end of it all, could end up being 3rd or 4th on the supercross wins list. Nor was he the best in 125 outdoors either.

Like I said, I am in no way diminishing RC's accomplishments.





ridge
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ridge 9/21/2015 10:25pm
9/21/2015 10:25pm
IceMan446 wrote:
MC had already won SEVEN championships at that point. He was at the end of his career, lets be honest. He had proven all he needed...
MC had already won SEVEN championships at that point.

He was at the end of his career, lets be honest. He had proven all he needed to.

Fact remains, RC isnt comparable to MC in supercross.

And by no means am I down playing what RC has accomplished. Because I am not.

But MC forever changed supercross. RC did the same for motocross.
In 2001, RC beat MC by 64 points. MC beat third place by 43 points. MC would've won another title (it's not like he placed 4th or 5th in points because he was at the end of his career.) In fact, he beat the next guy by a bigger points lead than he did the year before (when he won the championship.)
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teggers 9/21/2015 10:29pm
9/21/2015 10:29pm
TXDirt wrote:
Having raced RC from 65's all they way to the pro's I can definitely confirm he is the GOAT. No question. SX/MX it does not matter...
Having raced RC from 65's all they way to the pro's I can definitely confirm he is the GOAT. No question. SX/MX it does not matter. He has another level others cannot reach. Period.
Thats a really nice statement.
Truth.
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ridge 9/21/2015 10:31pm
9/21/2015 10:31pm
Park Boys wrote:
Also when Everts beat RC he was on a 125 vs a 250. RC and Everts lined up behind 5 gate drops in the same class...
Also when Everts beat RC he was on a 125 vs a 250. RC and Everts lined up behind 5 gate drops in the same class and every time RC won on Everts side of the world. He would have been embarrassed on a AMA track against RC.
Oh wow! I didn't know that. I remember how respectful RC was towards Everts. I always thought that was cool.
just.another.nickname 9/21/2015 10:33pm
9/21/2015 10:33pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2015 10:38pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Thats where we differ in opinion. Not that I don't see your side of it. But "reasoning" tells me, they have two number one plates for...
Thats where we differ in opinion. Not that I don't see your side of it.

But "reasoning" tells me, they have two number one plates for each discipline for a reason. They don't combine points for both series and award a title for the combined total of points.

To be the best, you have to be the best at both IMO

RC wasn't the best in supercross and at the end of it all, could end up being 3rd or 4th on the supercross wins list. Nor was he the best in 125 outdoors either.

Like I said, I am in no way diminishing RC's accomplishments.





"You have to be the best at both..." That's not how it works in the mind of someone who's NOT biased for whatever reason.

In the sport of American MX & SX, who with combined championships AND wins, from their entire career could be considered the Greatest of All Time. There's only one answer at this point. It's RC, period.

By your rationale the only answer would be NOBODY! That just doesn't make sense at all.
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USMCMXer 9/21/2015 10:43pm
9/21/2015 10:43pm
You guys do all realize it isn't like RC is trying to convince anyone of how great he was, right? The GOAT is simply a nickname coined by Matt Walker one day, in reference to RC. The simple fact that people even debate the notion lends it instant credibility. If you're the type of person that feels good about diminishing what any pro rider has accomplished, you probably need to go polish your lifted truck and put some air in your way oversized tires, lil man!!!
just.another.nickname 9/21/2015 10:51pm
9/21/2015 10:51pm
Here's the kicker, RC can be considered this on heart alone! He put his heart and soul into winning BOTH disciplines as much as he possibly could. MC is no doubt the King of Supercross, but when it came to outdoors his effort was a bit lackluster. As he just wasn't into it as much. I can't even see how people can compare the two really???
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Sparkplug 9/21/2015 11:14pm
9/21/2015 11:14pm




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c_dub 9/21/2015 11:32pm
9/21/2015 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2015 2:12am
Let's not forget R.C.'s "lesser" discipline (SX) bests McGrath's "lesser" discipline (MX) by a substantial margin. That is, R.C. is a lot closer to McGrath's Supercross record (-24 or -26 if you want to count 125 SX, I don't) than McGrath is to Ricky's outdoor record (-85). Expanding on that, Ricky has five Supercross titles to one Outdoor title for MC.

And Ricky did a lot of SX racing against the likes of James Stewart and especially Chad Reed (#2 and #4 on the all time SX wins list). That needs to be factored in as well. And he missed a season of SX ('04) due to injury. Would Ricky have more SX wins if he hadn't missed a year and didn't have to deal with James and Chad? Would MC have less wins if he had to do battle with the #2 and #4 riders on the all-time wins list? Speculative no doubt but I think one could answer yes to both of those questions.

These arguments are silly. Like the man personally or not, there is no debating whether RC is the GOAT. I'm not sure why it still gets brought up and debated.
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Zracer 9/21/2015 11:39pm
9/21/2015 11:39pm
I think it pretty dismissive to say RC didnt change SX as he did MX. Watch races from 01 and listen to the announcers discuss how he changed it ,as it was happening. RC took both mx and sx to a new level of bonzai. He stayed lower on jumps and carried more corner speed than anyone, and he did it for 20 laps. He wasnt the most graceful rider ever , but the pace he pushed the sport to still continues today.

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Pound4Pound 9/22/2015 12:54am
9/22/2015 12:54am
Stewart changed the sport
GeorgiePorgie 9/22/2015 3:44am
9/22/2015 3:44am
Somebody put up the statistical analysis.
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Flatliner 9/22/2015 4:01am
9/22/2015 4:01am
IceMan446 wrote:
Im with Matthes on this, RC isn't the GOAT. MC has him beat in SX. Cant be the GOAT if you aren't the best in both...
Im with Matthes on this, RC isn't the GOAT.

MC has him beat in SX.

Cant be the GOAT if you aren't the best in both disciplines.



Zracer wrote:
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he...
I dont see MC having RC beat in SX. MC ,in 01 , openly admitted that, even though he thought he was as fast as he ever was, RC pushed the pace way past where MC was comfortable. RC just smoked him ,and MC was never mentally the same. MC had more wins but raced longer,the win percentage is about equal , but heads up RC just owned him after 2000. To the guys wanting to come back with..but MC got old... BS , he was still beating the other riders at the same rate as ever.
RC pushed the fitness past where mc was comfortable. It wasn't an issue of pace, he also got away with many near misses that season. RC was 21-22, while mc was near 30. Big difference there.
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wfo250 9/22/2015 4:07am
9/22/2015 4:07am
Goat Breker
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loftyair 9/22/2015 8:38am
9/22/2015 8:38am
Its called motocross. Supercross was made up to get the unknowing to get into it hopefully. A supercross rider knows that motocross is way harder. So, if everything was equal between the indoor and outdoor guy, the indoor guy would definitely know and say the outdoor guy Is a bad ass, and the indoor guy is better in a way for a much shorter and easier time.
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Mit12 9/22/2015 9:00am
9/22/2015 9:00am
xnationalwrench wrote:
What about GOAT Brecker? he was a GOAT before RC was born LOL
The original one and only!
To call a person "the greatest of all time" is short sided at best. Yes RC is a great rider with a lot of records but it ends there.
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jeffro503 9/22/2015 9:02am
9/22/2015 9:02am
jeffro503 wrote:
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever. So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine...
There never will be one guy that is best at both.....ever.

So most people with common sense use this thing called " reasoning " and combine the two , because all the top guys here in the states race both series. With both combined , RC is 100% the GOAT. And besides that , MC is known as " The King " , and has been known as that for the past 15yrs. He is 100% the king of SX.

Now if we were going to split it , then you would have to split it 3 different ways. SX , Nationals and GP's. If it's just outdoor moto , then GP guys have every right to throw in names like Stefan Evert's and AC222.

But we're not really. We combine the SX and the Nationals for an " overall " leader , champion , GOAT or whatever anyone wants to call it. RC has an edge there I think too though , as he beat the very best GP rider that's ever lived , every single time they lined up together.

There isn't another rider , ever that has won more in SX , Nationals and MXoN's races as RC. And I doubt there ever will be again.

Total , most overall wins with everything combined! Period! Most well rider of our time.
IceMan446 wrote:
Thats where we differ in opinion. Not that I don't see your side of it. But "reasoning" tells me, they have two number one plates for...
Thats where we differ in opinion. Not that I don't see your side of it.

But "reasoning" tells me, they have two number one plates for each discipline for a reason. They don't combine points for both series and award a title for the combined total of points.

To be the best, you have to be the best at both IMO

RC wasn't the best in supercross and at the end of it all, could end up being 3rd or 4th on the supercross wins list. Nor was he the best in 125 outdoors either.

Like I said, I am in no way diminishing RC's accomplishments.





Sooo....what you're saying is " Nobody " could possibly be the greatest of all time? Haha , yeah that makes sense. I think 99% of the community is fine with MC being the king and RC being the goat.

And just so I know , Matthis said that about RC , what did JT$ say? I haven't listened to the show , or even know what was said.
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FLmxer 9/22/2015 9:22am
9/22/2015 9:22am
I can end this thread like I have all the rest like it. Every rider mentioned says RC is the GOAT. That is what makes it carved in stone.
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hvaughn88 9/22/2015 9:43am
9/22/2015 9:43am
FLmxer wrote:
I can end this thread like I have all the rest like it. Every rider mentioned says RC is the GOAT. That is what makes it...
I can end this thread like I have all the rest like it. Every rider mentioned says RC is the GOAT. That is what makes it carved in stone.
Did MC?
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flarider 9/22/2015 9:45am
9/22/2015 9:45am
Unless you guys have a crystal ball and can tell the future, you can never say "of all time"



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disbanded 9/22/2015 9:50am
9/22/2015 9:50am
The greatest rider our sport has ever seen is the one with the most combined wins.
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FLmxer 9/22/2015 9:53am
9/22/2015 9:53am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2015 9:54am
FLmxer wrote:
I can end this thread like I have all the rest like it. Every rider mentioned says RC is the GOAT. That is what makes it...
I can end this thread like I have all the rest like it. Every rider mentioned says RC is the GOAT. That is what makes it carved in stone.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Did MC?
Yes many times but at first MC wanted to be clear that he was better at sx which is true but over all there is no question RC owns it. How's that new truck treating you? I'm close.

Post a reply to: For the newbs: there is only 1 GOAT. Just because you "think" someone is dominant, he's not.