Dungey is Roczen and Roczen's Dads problem

cz2crf2wc
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8/22/2015 9:46am
RG1 wrote:
Dungey has been great, no question. But I'm absolutely positive that Roczen would at least on his level on a bike he would be comfortable on...
Dungey has been great, no question. But I'm absolutely positive that Roczen would at least on his level on a bike he would be comfortable on. At his best he's nowhere near 100 points worse than Dungey over the course of a season. Dungey isn't the source of their problems, he's the result
More like he would of been on his level had he been healthy
RG1
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8/22/2015 9:51am
cz2crf2wc wrote:
More like he would of been on his level had he been healthy
That too, but he hasn't had a set up that he has confidence in and that has been a problem
cason402
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8/22/2015 9:57am
watson wrote:
Don't know about your last statement. Dungey was clearly faster this year in Supercross than both Tomac and Roczen. Tomac was undeniably faster outdoors this year...
Don't know about your last statement. Dungey was clearly faster this year in Supercross than both Tomac and Roczen. Tomac was undeniably faster outdoors this year, but last year Dungey was faster than Tomac. Roczen was faster indoors and out last year than Dungey, but the tables have turned this year for both disciplines. I don't think there's enough information yet to say who's faster.
I can concede that if you are talking about how "fast" one is say for a lap, then information may be lacking.

However, for 2015 there are two pieces of information that PROVE who was faster.

Both are owned by Ryan Dungey.

This is the same strange discussion that revolved around JS7 at times and I'm unable to understand the logic.

Fast in motocross seems, to some, to mean a lap or a race, but they don't award number one plates and championships for that. So as a motocrosser it seems strange, to me, that some think being fast at a race or a lap or several races is some indication of something, that's in some way more important.

The gates drop, the checkered flags fall, in the end the guy with the number one plate is the fastest.

Am I missing something?
DonM
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8/22/2015 10:02am
cz2crf2wc wrote:
More like he would of been on his level had he been healthy
RG1 wrote:
That too, but he hasn't had a set up that he has confidence in and that has been a problem
This is the same guy that has said in the past that he's not picky on set up and that seemed to be the case when he was winning but this year all he talked about was set up....I'm with Matthes...these guys are mental cases.....and not to mention the same people on here that are saying that Kenny's bike is crap are also the ones that said last year that Dungey was much faster on the Suz and he should go back.....so I'm also thinking that not only are the riders mental cases...so are Vitards...

The Shop

SigPig
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8/22/2015 10:04am
watson wrote:
Don't know about your last statement. Dungey was clearly faster this year in Supercross than both Tomac and Roczen. Tomac was undeniably faster outdoors this year...
Don't know about your last statement. Dungey was clearly faster this year in Supercross than both Tomac and Roczen. Tomac was undeniably faster outdoors this year, but last year Dungey was faster than Tomac. Roczen was faster indoors and out last year than Dungey, but the tables have turned this year for both disciplines. I don't think there's enough information yet to say who's faster.
cason402 wrote:
I can concede that if you are talking about how "fast" one is say for a lap, then information may be lacking. However, for 2015 there...
I can concede that if you are talking about how "fast" one is say for a lap, then information may be lacking.

However, for 2015 there are two pieces of information that PROVE who was faster.

Both are owned by Ryan Dungey.

This is the same strange discussion that revolved around JS7 at times and I'm unable to understand the logic.

Fast in motocross seems, to some, to mean a lap or a race, but they don't award number one plates and championships for that. So as a motocrosser it seems strange, to me, that some think being fast at a race or a lap or several races is some indication of something, that's in some way more important.

The gates drop, the checkered flags fall, in the end the guy with the number one plate is the fastest.

Am I missing something?
No, you've got it.
jamma10
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8/22/2015 10:11am
jamma10 wrote:
Not only were they racing identical bikes last year, Roczen was riding a bike built for Dungey.
DonM wrote:
Oh Please...Jamma you're better than this....So Tony was riding a 350 of Dungy's bike?
DownSouth wrote:
That "bike built for Dungey" is hilarious to me. So I guess if Dungey thought thought bike was bad in the whoops and didn't corner well...
That "bike built for Dungey" is hilarious to me. So I guess if Dungey thought thought bike was bad in the whoops and didn't corner well that he was the only guy who had those concerns.

I wasn't making a particularly big deal about it. But it's a truthful statement is it not? Decoster basically had KTM build that new 450 around Dungey.
SKlein
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8/22/2015 10:32am
SKlein wrote:
slipdog wrote:
I hovered to see what you were up to and nothing jumped out, even though I knew you were up to something I decided to give...
I hovered to see what you were up to and nothing jumped out, even though I knew you were up to something I decided to give it a shot... well done!
Laughing It's the best I could do!
RG1
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8/22/2015 10:57am
DonM wrote:
This is the same guy that has said in the past that he's not picky on set up and that seemed to be the case when...
This is the same guy that has said in the past that he's not picky on set up and that seemed to be the case when he was winning but this year all he talked about was set up....I'm with Matthes...these guys are mental cases.....and not to mention the same people on here that are saying that Kenny's bike is crap are also the ones that said last year that Dungey was much faster on the Suz and he should go back.....so I'm also thinking that not only are the riders mental cases...so are Vitards...
Even if you're not picky on set-up, if your bike is way off, then it's going to hold you back. It's as simple as that. He might say he's not picky on set-up, but he might just mean that he doesn't need much ie. give me some suspension that works and I'm good. He still needs good feel on the bike. It seems pretty obvious that he hasn't found that.
machine
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8/22/2015 11:06am
RG1 wrote:
Even if you're not picky on set-up, if your bike is way off, then it's going to hold you back. It's as simple as that. He...
Even if you're not picky on set-up, if your bike is way off, then it's going to hold you back. It's as simple as that. He might say he's not picky on set-up, but he might just mean that he doesn't need much ie. give me some suspension that works and I'm good. He still needs good feel on the bike. It seems pretty obvious that he hasn't found that.
Haha...I bet you weren't saying that when EVERYONE knew RV's bike had issues. Double standards...
RG1
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8/22/2015 11:13am
machine wrote:
Haha...I bet you weren't saying that when EVERYONE knew RV's bike had issues. Double standards...
Actually I was. It's obvious that you need a well set up bike. RV's was a bit of different deal in my opinion
BobbyM
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8/22/2015 12:03pm
ocscottie wrote:
This needed another thread like i need another hole in my head. Pinch
Plug that fucker up my boy.
watson
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8/22/2015 12:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2015 3:01pm
cason402 wrote:
I can concede that if you are talking about how "fast" one is say for a lap, then information may be lacking. However, for 2015 there...
I can concede that if you are talking about how "fast" one is say for a lap, then information may be lacking.

However, for 2015 there are two pieces of information that PROVE who was faster.

Both are owned by Ryan Dungey.

This is the same strange discussion that revolved around JS7 at times and I'm unable to understand the logic.

Fast in motocross seems, to some, to mean a lap or a race, but they don't award number one plates and championships for that. So as a motocrosser it seems strange, to me, that some think being fast at a race or a lap or several races is some indication of something, that's in some way more important.

The gates drop, the checkered flags fall, in the end the guy with the number one plate is the fastest.

Am I missing something?
You've pretty much got it. Given that Dungey's had the most wins in both Supercross and Outdoors by a mile this year as well as the titles- I don't understand why people are still down-talking his speed and saying Roczen and Tomac are flat-out faster. That, to me, is nonsense.
DonM
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8/22/2015 1:44pm
machine wrote:
Haha...I bet you weren't saying that when EVERYONE knew RV's bike had issues. Double standards...
RG1 wrote:
Actually I was. It's obvious that you need a well set up bike. RV's was a bit of different deal in my opinion
Opinions is something you're not short of....
8/22/2015 2:07pm
I think we need to read between the lines here. At the beginning of the SX season it was said he was being trained by his dad again. But with all the reports this week it was stated his dad has been back in Germany for over a month. What happened to make him go back to Germany.

I am sure the bike and his injuries were a challenge as well but think there is something up with him and his dad - JMO.
RG1
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8/22/2015 2:08pm
DonM wrote:
Opinions is something you're not short of....
Many people aren't short of opinions. You're not too short of them yourself
RG1
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8/22/2015 2:09pm
Spat24 wrote:
I think we need to read between the lines here. At the beginning of the SX season it was said he was being trained by his...
I think we need to read between the lines here. At the beginning of the SX season it was said he was being trained by his dad again. But with all the reports this week it was stated his dad has been back in Germany for over a month. What happened to make him go back to Germany.

I am sure the bike and his injuries were a challenge as well but think there is something up with him and his dad - JMO.
He went home because his grandson was very sick
DonM
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8/22/2015 2:13pm
DonM wrote:
Opinions is something you're not short of....
RG1 wrote:
Many people aren't short of opinions. You're not too short of them yourself
True but mine are based on fact not speculation...
RG1
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8/22/2015 2:32pm
DonM wrote:
True but mine are based on fact not speculation...
Haha. Okay then
8/22/2015 2:58pm
Basically, from what I've gathered from the know-it-alls is that when Dungey wins it's because the competition's settings are off, but when Dungey loses, they are all on even equipment and the other riders are just faster.

Dungey wins because his program is tight and he puts in the work. I'm so tired of all the "ifs". If RV had not broke his leg, If Reed had not tried playing superman at Millville, if Stewart and Tomac had not crashed out, if Roczen had not cased the triple...and on and on and on.

Ever think maybe those guys are riding over their heads to try and beat the guy who goes fast and doesn't crash out. Dungey is a better rider, period.
Flatliner
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8/22/2015 3:41pm
tdrewk wrote:
You're delusional if you think RD5 has improved all that much from last year as a rider. At the pro level bike and bike setup is...
You're delusional if you think RD5 has improved all that much from last year as a rider. At the pro level bike and bike setup is the difference between going 2 laps a second faster or not (Remember what Canard was able to do when he switched suspension last year). The new KTM is noticeably a major improvement from last years model and it shows in RD5's speed and overall performance. Eli Tomac was clearly the Alpha rider this year...and last year Roczen proved he was the faster rider on identical KTM's, not only in the Championship standing but also with faster lap times more often than not and better overall starts. RD5 is a bitchin rider for sure, but when the bikes are equal...Roczen and Tomac are faster.
Only on vital can you call a guy who won one overall faster than the guy who wrapped up the outdoor title a round early, and the indoor one two or three rounds early.

tdrewk
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8/23/2015 12:34pm
Flatliner wrote:
Only on vital can you call a guy who won one overall faster than the guy who wrapped up the outdoor title a round early, and...
Only on vital can you call a guy who won one overall faster than the guy who wrapped up the outdoor title a round early, and the indoor one two or three rounds early.

Take off the fan-boy goggles and the facts speak for themselves. Dungey is brilliantly fast and consistent and that formula is often successful, but is only works when the faster jockeys are knocked out. He has yet to win a championship when all the top fast guys have been healthy.

* He's rarely beat RV straight up in only but a handful of motos, and never beat him in a Championship when RV rode a series (But that applies to everyone else as well)

* Tomac showed he was flat out faster by a huge margin in the 1st 5 motos in 2015. No contest, Tomac is faster outdoors

* Bubba historically speaking has always been faster than Dungey in qualifying and races, as long as he keeps it on 2 wheels

* Roczen was a click faster than Dungey last year when on identical bikes and both healthy.

If I we're choosing the fastest jockey (lap to lap or moto to moto) it certainly would not be RD5. I certainly don't consider the winner of a Championship to be the 'fastest rider' on the planet, just maybe the 'best lucky and skillful rider' of that series.
yak651
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8/23/2015 12:49pm
If it wasn't for the mudder at Iron Man last year Dungey would've most likely been the champ last year also. He had the momentum till that race, and Ken was struggling the races prior to the mudfest.
8/23/2015 12:51pm
I would rather be the guy that rode every season and cashed in. The guy that is breaking records and winning championships. Being the fastest guy for a lap gets you rides but it doesn't get championship bonus money.

I thought Roczen said he could win on a stock Suzuki? Now all year he says the bike is the reason he is not winning. Yet he got rid of the trainer that helped him win the championship last year because he wanted to have fun. Well he didn't win either title, but he's having fun and training less.

I'm not sure how anyone could discredit Dungey, you would have to be blind and stupid. The only thing that bothers me about him and others in the sport is when they say "MotoRcross". Seriously guys, it's Motocross.
watson
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8/23/2015 1:54pm
tdrewk wrote:
Take off the fan-boy goggles and the facts speak for themselves. Dungey is brilliantly fast and consistent and that formula is often successful, but is only...
Take off the fan-boy goggles and the facts speak for themselves. Dungey is brilliantly fast and consistent and that formula is often successful, but is only works when the faster jockeys are knocked out. He has yet to win a championship when all the top fast guys have been healthy.

* He's rarely beat RV straight up in only but a handful of motos, and never beat him in a Championship when RV rode a series (But that applies to everyone else as well)

* Tomac showed he was flat out faster by a huge margin in the 1st 5 motos in 2015. No contest, Tomac is faster outdoors

* Bubba historically speaking has always been faster than Dungey in qualifying and races, as long as he keeps it on 2 wheels

* Roczen was a click faster than Dungey last year when on identical bikes and both healthy.

If I we're choosing the fastest jockey (lap to lap or moto to moto) it certainly would not be RD5. I certainly don't consider the winner of a Championship to be the 'fastest rider' on the planet, just maybe the 'best lucky and skillful rider' of that series.
You're right, the results do speak for themselves– the other "faster" guys (Stewart and Tomac) crater themselves going a speed they can't sustain in an effort to beat Dungey (which isn't faster in the least). I will concede that Villopoto was faster than Dungey since he was flat out faster at a speed he could sustain throughout a series. But since he's retired, he's no longer part of the conversation. The juries' still out on Roczen, but the facts are that Dungey beat him in every category possible this year. To say that's solely due to Roczen's bike problems/injury (even though he was able to line up for every moto and most guys are dealing with a nagging injury/bike setup issue of sorts) is a cop-out and not giving Dungey the credit he deserves for stepping it up this year.

It's funny. Since Dungey turned pro, all people have been saying is that he needs to improve his first few lap's aggression, general riding aggression, and raw speed. He's done ALL of the above this year and still can't get the credit he deserves. It is what it is.
Flatliner
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8/23/2015 3:08pm
Flatliner wrote:
Only on vital can you call a guy who won one overall faster than the guy who wrapped up the outdoor title a round early, and...
Only on vital can you call a guy who won one overall faster than the guy who wrapped up the outdoor title a round early, and the indoor one two or three rounds early.

tdrewk wrote:
Take off the fan-boy goggles and the facts speak for themselves. Dungey is brilliantly fast and consistent and that formula is often successful, but is only...
Take off the fan-boy goggles and the facts speak for themselves. Dungey is brilliantly fast and consistent and that formula is often successful, but is only works when the faster jockeys are knocked out. He has yet to win a championship when all the top fast guys have been healthy.

* He's rarely beat RV straight up in only but a handful of motos, and never beat him in a Championship when RV rode a series (But that applies to everyone else as well)

* Tomac showed he was flat out faster by a huge margin in the 1st 5 motos in 2015. No contest, Tomac is faster outdoors

* Bubba historically speaking has always been faster than Dungey in qualifying and races, as long as he keeps it on 2 wheels

* Roczen was a click faster than Dungey last year when on identical bikes and both healthy.

If I we're choosing the fastest jockey (lap to lap or moto to moto) it certainly would not be RD5. I certainly don't consider the winner of a Championship to be the 'fastest rider' on the planet, just maybe the 'best lucky and skillful rider' of that series.
RV was better than dunge one outdoor big bike season. Just one. 2013, not in 2011 where dunge had one mechanical DNF after crushing everyone the whole moto, and another one where he went damn near a lap down to 7th in one of the best rides I've ever seen.

5 moto's of Tomac crushing it , while impressive isn't enough to draw a conclusion on the who's faster argument. Mostly because it's too small a sample, and dungey just showed him the fast way around the track indoors by a large margin. Looking forward to 2016 in that regard.

Bubba, well he is who he is. The guy has set the bar for one lap speed in his career, and he's paid the price for that too.

Roczen won the title last year absolutely, but it's pretty damn obvious to everyone that 2015 dungey actually got faster than last year. He's improved his speed, and his early race aggression.

AZdusty
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8/23/2015 9:05pm
Dungey is laughing all the way to the bank. This "Fastest" talk is getting out of hand.

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