Posts
2072
Joined
12/14/2010
Location
ORANGEVALE, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
7/6/2015 7:14pm
So the topic of rider turn out and the effects of the economy was broached on Racerxonline recently. I can remember in the first two years i raced in 2003/2004 there were always 2-3 gates of beginners, 1-2 on novices and a solid gate of intermediates and pros, but now when i go out and watch a local race you could get by with stuffing everyone on 5 gates and be done in two hours. I remember enjoying racing and watching racing because there were a lot of people competing. Dont get me wrong but racing against 5-10 guys is kinda lame
How is turn out in your area on practice days vs race days?
If it is low and used to be packed why do you think the numbers havent returned? Bikes? Time (which days or time of day)? Tracks? Incentives?
and what do you think could help turn the corner.
My Opinion;
I dont think this a single thing that could fix the turnouts. Many of my friends are now in their mid to late 20's. now have families and kids are their focus, some got into other activities such as biking(road and mtn) but thats typical for my age bracket. where I see the lack of numbers are in under age 18 rider which is what normally fills the 250/450 classes.
~I dont think bikes have as much effect on amateurs as its made out to be but i do feel it has its effects. The cost to an average rider (most tend to be novice or slower in general) so they dont ride the engines as hard. If a rider maintains his bike right it will last awhile longer than what the manual says. ( I know multiple guys who got more than one season on the original engine on a 250f. like over 100hrs) typically the problem rests on those with little money to ride who blow up a 4t and dont have 1k laying around for repairs.
~I think race day has an affect on turnout as well. when i raced i hardly went to a sunday event. 1 im religous and tend to go to church on these days. 2 a local track used to do saturday night racing. and three i have to work on monday. After racing im always sore the next day so I dont want to work with a sore back.
To help I think more racing events should be moved to saturdays in general. One most people plan activities on sat to begin with. If its done in the morning your done by 2pm-5pm and you have a whole day to recover or travel home. Saturday night racing, or night in general during the summer. This gets you racing when its NOT hot as balls. plus the pros race on saturday. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander right? Also racing takes up at least half a day but you only get what 10 laps? where as a gncc will net you 30-45 mins of racing? why would you take up a whole weekend for 10-15 min of racing when you can racing for twice that on a safer course.
~I think tracks play into turn to a degree. Many of the tracks where im at have gotten built up with bigger jumps. Thats not bad if you are a hot shot intermediate moving up but many riders i know are older, who work for a living and dont want to stress about some triple or a 90ft downhill double. My favorite type of track has always been a local sand track that is rough and only has a few small table tops. I like to be challenged but for someone who isnt racing for a living i would rather battle with riders not the tracks. Additionally older guys always have money vs young kids so this would only serve to push guys away. This i feel is why a large amount of guys have gone to off road racing like worcs, hare scramble and cross country.
~ another point i feel needs to change is rider incentive. The largest local race i ever attended called the " Coupe Classic" happened twice a year. It would get Pro turn out that rivaled actually amateur nationals he would sometimes have to turn guys away. How'd he do it? He collected donations from the public for the pro purse. I think one year he had something like a $20k. and this was in the 90's. Also at these races there was always a large amount of spectators watching, in fact I never got to race it just my dad and my brothers would go watch. Most races locally now barely do 100% payback. If i was Pro, a local race wouldnt be worth my time. To me racing Pro, means racing for money. and as a spectator i dont want to just watch a few old guys and a pack of 50's circle the track.
~as an amatuer I would always do a race or two in a series, i almost never did a full series. One year i did so i could try to win the class title and get some prizes. I took third in one class and I got a coupon that said "free suspension revalving" When i called on it, it was actually a dated coupon and the promotion was discounted springs with a revalve purchase. frankly i felt cheated. I wasnt expecting hundreds dollars worth but it was kind of a joke.
How is turn out in your area on practice days vs race days?
If it is low and used to be packed why do you think the numbers havent returned? Bikes? Time (which days or time of day)? Tracks? Incentives?
and what do you think could help turn the corner.
My Opinion;
I dont think this a single thing that could fix the turnouts. Many of my friends are now in their mid to late 20's. now have families and kids are their focus, some got into other activities such as biking(road and mtn) but thats typical for my age bracket. where I see the lack of numbers are in under age 18 rider which is what normally fills the 250/450 classes.
~I dont think bikes have as much effect on amateurs as its made out to be but i do feel it has its effects. The cost to an average rider (most tend to be novice or slower in general) so they dont ride the engines as hard. If a rider maintains his bike right it will last awhile longer than what the manual says. ( I know multiple guys who got more than one season on the original engine on a 250f. like over 100hrs) typically the problem rests on those with little money to ride who blow up a 4t and dont have 1k laying around for repairs.
~I think race day has an affect on turnout as well. when i raced i hardly went to a sunday event. 1 im religous and tend to go to church on these days. 2 a local track used to do saturday night racing. and three i have to work on monday. After racing im always sore the next day so I dont want to work with a sore back.
To help I think more racing events should be moved to saturdays in general. One most people plan activities on sat to begin with. If its done in the morning your done by 2pm-5pm and you have a whole day to recover or travel home. Saturday night racing, or night in general during the summer. This gets you racing when its NOT hot as balls. plus the pros race on saturday. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander right? Also racing takes up at least half a day but you only get what 10 laps? where as a gncc will net you 30-45 mins of racing? why would you take up a whole weekend for 10-15 min of racing when you can racing for twice that on a safer course.
~I think tracks play into turn to a degree. Many of the tracks where im at have gotten built up with bigger jumps. Thats not bad if you are a hot shot intermediate moving up but many riders i know are older, who work for a living and dont want to stress about some triple or a 90ft downhill double. My favorite type of track has always been a local sand track that is rough and only has a few small table tops. I like to be challenged but for someone who isnt racing for a living i would rather battle with riders not the tracks. Additionally older guys always have money vs young kids so this would only serve to push guys away. This i feel is why a large amount of guys have gone to off road racing like worcs, hare scramble and cross country.
~ another point i feel needs to change is rider incentive. The largest local race i ever attended called the " Coupe Classic" happened twice a year. It would get Pro turn out that rivaled actually amateur nationals he would sometimes have to turn guys away. How'd he do it? He collected donations from the public for the pro purse. I think one year he had something like a $20k. and this was in the 90's. Also at these races there was always a large amount of spectators watching, in fact I never got to race it just my dad and my brothers would go watch. Most races locally now barely do 100% payback. If i was Pro, a local race wouldnt be worth my time. To me racing Pro, means racing for money. and as a spectator i dont want to just watch a few old guys and a pack of 50's circle the track.
~as an amatuer I would always do a race or two in a series, i almost never did a full series. One year i did so i could try to win the class title and get some prizes. I took third in one class and I got a coupon that said "free suspension revalving" When i called on it, it was actually a dated coupon and the promotion was discounted springs with a revalve purchase. frankly i felt cheated. I wasnt expecting hundreds dollars worth but it was kind of a joke.
scared tooce up itd be a lot
Better IMO
People are selecting to race events that are sure to have full gates. And who can blame them? There is so much more to life than MX these days. It's hardto juggle it all. And when I want to race--I don't want to race 3 guys. That's boring.
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Nowadays, however, most promoters simply post their schedule on a website and leave it up to the riders to seek it out. Sure, it's cheaper for the promoter and convenient enough for the racers they already have, but is not effective in bringing in any "impulse buyers".
in the mid 70s the tracks were full ,i mean full.
then you had monoshock come along then watercooling.
before you could race a bike for years,then a new one was required each year.
the feild was empty by 1980.
then,it levrled off and numbers came up by 84 or 85 when technology stabilized.
eh,but wtf do i know.
There would be 5-6 A class guys maybe 14-15 b riders and damn near full gates of 250c, 250d, and 85d. And lots of superminis. This was all in 04, 05. Last year we raced a full series and if you take out races that were llq there wasn't but like 5-6 superminis that raced the entire series. Not a single one made the required 11 races to get to go to the awards ceremony
Racing is much more expensive than just riding with your friends.
Actually racing with the goal of winning is borderline insanity.
i grew up in the northeast and remember going to the practice tracks and seeing lots of younger riders on 60s and 80s ....go to any track now and its mostly just older guys with newer bikes and maybe a rich kid here and there with new bikes who races all the time
Pit Row
Damn shame. Hope it returns next yr. Local tracks mostly run practices or ride days to make ends meet.
cost of bikes has gone up too however i have done research and cost of a 450 actually is in line with inflation. Also with as reliable as a 4t motor can be a local should be able to stretch the engine for a whole season. but there are others mitigating factors such as parts cost too. a 4t pipe cost 3x's and even tires are almost double the cost to what they were a few years ago.
Honestly I feel, that if 2t's were made a priority in the pro ranks again it would help the sport. at the very least a 125 class with no homologation restrictions or age limits would encourage those who cant afford the 250 or 450 class.
also I think a good point is made with GNCC's. you show up and race most of the day whereas mx you sit around mostly unless your doing 2-3 classes but that cost adds up. if local races instead condensed classes (especially with low turnouts like removing some age groups or remove the skill levels within them) and then made motos 15 min you would get more guys on a gate and more time on the track.
The past two years, I've noticed a small, but slow & steady improvement in rider turnout at the races... I've noticed a turnout of more two-strokes coming back here in the North-West. That tells me some people are trying to race for a bit less money. (Please, sweet little baby-Jesus don't let my last remark turn this into another two-stroke thread... Thank you baby-Jesus, thank you.).
We can go to the practice track on Sunday and pay $30 to ride all day or we can go spend $35 per class to ride 3 laps of practice and a couple 5 lap motos.
We choose to race most of the time because we're idiots who "NEED" the competition aspect of motocross.
Everyone wants to be a winner... That's why parents want to enter "little Ricky" in all six classes he's eligible for at the Po-Dunk Speedway Summer Series.
Add the fact that most amateur / weekend guys aren't in shape to do a 20 or 30 minute moto, let alone two motos.
I'll bet if you kept statistics, most bad crashes & injuries happen on the first lap (when everyone is in a frenzy) and somewhere after the 5th lap (when most guys are getting tired).
You can't blame the promoters or the tracks either... The cost of putting on a race is not small: owning/leasing a dozer & water-truck, burning diesel to prep the track, paying real-estate taxes, compensating flaggers and other track-crew, permits, insurance, medical personnel, advertising, awards, purse and all the other BS they have to cover is crazy. They have split up the racing into about 3.7 million classes and charge a small fortune for each class because it's profitable.
On a practice day, the track-crew is smaller and the track-prep is typically less intense.
Consider the track prep back in the 1970's and early 1980's... The tracks were rough, dry, rocky, dusty pieces of crap. Most people won't ride a track like that today as our expectations of grooming have changed over the years.
Two reasons I believe this is so;
First, the two stroke is the bike of choice for the type of terrain which is mixed between woods, Moto, and extreme, and also because it's better with the dead engine start. So, the cost of the bikes is relatively cheap.
And second, each class races two thirty minute motos that are run on a strict schedule with no messing around. So you get plenty of time on the track.
This, I think is one of the reasons i switched to mainly running a couple local h.s. series.
One saturday after doing my first moto ( second to last befor intermission) I realize ..."Ok i just payed a 10 dollar gate entry fee 35 dollars to ride a a class full of sandbaggers, im only riding 10 laps today and now my whole saturday is gone....this sux". I think it was at that point i switched to offroad. 1 two hour moto classes have a good point/ advancment system so you dont get those "C" riders that sould be on the gate with all the A level riders and prob still podium. plus it doesnt take my whole day up. i still have time to get home clean up my bike, wash gear ect.
They should just go back to the basics again.
The wife, big problem
Health, big problem
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