Electric MX Bikes - Future of MX - Full Write Up

SwapperMX
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6/17/2015 9:56pm
Krazyk2774 wrote:
It would be awesome to trail ride, if you could get the range comparable to current internal combustion bikes, and get the price down to compete...
It would be awesome to trail ride, if you could get the range comparable to current internal combustion bikes, and get the price down to compete with current machines. I would buy one!
What I wonder is what the environmental nuts would find to complain about! No noise, no pollution, they would really have to work hard to keep us out of Our forests and off Our public land ! Lol
731chopper wrote:
Erosion.
Basic landscaping techniques can manage this, which is how mountain bike riders get access to a lot of land.
h&m_cycle
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6/17/2015 9:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2015 9:58pm
I saw one of these Specialized e-bikes, times are a changing...



mjskier
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6/17/2015 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2015 10:28pm
For me the current limitation (no pun intended) is the cost of the battery.
Ideally I'd want a battery that is cheap enough and easy to swap so that I can have spares charging while I am riding.

I assume the motor themselves are fairly stable (after all, there are only so many ways to make an electric motor) and that most of the technological progresses are with batteries.
So again, I'd want a battery that is easy to swap (and with industry standard shape and connections) so that my bike is not outdated 3 months after I buy it. And maybe instead of one big battery that forces design trade offs with motor placement, have multiple smaller batteries that are distributed in several locations (under the seat, in place of the traditional tank, in front of the motor, behind the number plate... You get the idea.

With that said, I'd be all over an electric bike. I'm a petrol head at heart, but having the ability to ride in my backyard without the covenant nazi all over my ass would be priceless.


sumdood
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6/17/2015 10:57pm
I bought a Razor MX500 at Wal mart on sale for $279.00. We set up a trials course around my (tiny) yard, ripped all around the neighborhood, used it for a pit bike for awhile, and it was BAR NONE the funnest time I ever had at the skate park, easy, no contest. Ripping around the bowls was a blast on that little thing, plus you could just pick it up and chuck it in the truck, no tie downs, nothing to spill, throw it on it's side, pile your work shit on top of it lol, it was just a fun little toy.


I might even go buy another one, we got 300 bucks of fun out of it easy. Would I buy a full size electric mx bike for that kind of money though ? Not right now. But if they get more affordable down the road I would. It would allow a city dweller like me to be able to ride after work during the week, sneak out at lunch etc. It would open a lot of riding oppurtunities. I should ad this though. To law enforcement officers it wasn't a fun little toy from Wal Mart, it was a "Motorized Vehicle", and "It doesn't matter that the motor is electric". It's a motorized vehicle, and motorized vehicles are NOT allowed at the skate park, that was made perfectly clear... My fear about them is that once they become popular we will HAVE to buy them, that the gov't will shove them down our throats and "old fashioned polluting internal combustion engines" will be phased out altogether. Or.... I go spend thousands on one only to have the clueless majority decide they're bad for some other reason than pollution or noise. You know the tree huggers will squawk about erosion or dust or a 3 balled skink or some shit, those fuckers just hate fun, and for whatever reason our legal system listens to their whining. Good topic and I bet that bike is badass. So yes I would buy one, I just don't want to Have to buy one. Blink

The Shop

6/17/2015 11:10pm
731chopper wrote:
RC buggies and planes have taught me how awesome an electric motor can be but do I see the electric motor taking over the sport of...
RC buggies and planes have taught me how awesome an electric motor can be but do I see the electric motor taking over the sport of motocross? I'm not so sure. Certainly not anytime soon at least.

For the performance aspect, yes, the electric motor can deliver some awesome things but it comes at a price and certain sacrifices.

I think the biggest thing against it is that a big part of the appeal of motocross and riding dirt bikes is the mechanical aspect. An internal combustion engine is cool. It looks cool, it sounds cool, it is fun to shift a mechanical motorcycle gearbox, it is fun to slip the clutch, scream the bike in a low gear or lug it around a gear taller, etc. The trend with our sport right now is actually going backwards in regards to technology with vintage racing getting more popular, getting 2-strokes again, etc.

And THE biggest thing going against it is the price. We already talk about new bikes being too expensive as it is. To even get it somewhat justifiable in price you need to live in a State that will subsidize the price with tax dollars fueled by political ideologies but how long is that going to last? The electric bike companies can try to make a case about how buying an electric bikes is better for the environment but the truth is that the average person doesn't give a shit. Certainly not for that much of a price difference and with how much of the "global warming" rhetoric is still widely debated.

Electric RC is easy and convenient but the batteries do not last long . Like you say Petrol RC is a lot more fun since it involves the mechanical. Since MX is about fun . Electric will have its place but sensible is the opposite of having FUN ! Its about knowing your target market - Sure there is a place for it - Around town an ebike will be cool to cruize around on - Going on an adventure trip in the desert not so much .
nytsmaC
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6/18/2015 12:41am
I want one that weighs under 230lbs, 250F level performance, good quality components (KYB/Showa is fine), good brakes, good build quality, battery life of at least 400 hours with a 1hr minimum run time before performance starts to drop, for close to ten grand. Make it feel and perform like a regular MX bike and I'm there. Don't go crazy trying to reinvent the wheel like Cannondale did and fuck it up.
Paulbeds
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6/18/2015 2:14am
Just like one pal said before, the fact that I could ride whenever I want and wherever I want is priceless.
The technology is still in the develop curve , but in 10/12 years from now, the prospect we could ride in indoor facility in every town at every hour....well, it is a dream come true.

Go ahead with the development...this is motocross too!!!!
CoccoBill
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6/18/2015 2:39am
I would buy one NOW, if I had the money.
I quit riding MX bikes 15 years ago and started riding downhill bikes, an electric MX bike would be the best way (I should say the ONLY way) to get me back on a MX track.
I'm an old guy, I'm not looking for extreme performance, racing weapons, waxing the competition... all I would love is being able to go to the track on sunday and have great fun.
Going back to a MX bike from my downhill bike would be easy, no need to get used to the clutch again, both brakes on the handlebars, constant power delivery... lack of noise would definitely be a plus for me!
I'm constantly checking every source of information about electric MX bikes and that Redshift MX from Alta Motors is all I'm dreaming about.
I know I'm not the typical customer for this kind of bike, but I wouldn't count people like me out, I mean, I wouldn't concentrate on the typical MX rider as the perfect customer.
And, with a little practice, I'm pretty sure I would be able to smoke some of those "noisy" MX riders again like back in the days...
HackMan162
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6/18/2015 3:42am
250 lbs, and as CWToy points out, that is for a somewhat minimal battery. The batter weight is going to need to come down, and lsat longer for these to become viable. Also, the spec states 12" of travel, but fails to mention any details on the suspension. Should we assume this is Chinese crap suspension that "LOOKS" like Showa/KYB? If so, add another 1-2K to the price to put viable components on it. I could very well be wrong on that side though.

For now, no thanks. I'll stick to my RM250 smoker!
MR. X
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6/18/2015 4:42am
Make way for the no stroke taliban
6/18/2015 5:33am
The biggest advantage I think is lack of noise. Noise is our enemy and we lose and have lost many riding areas due to noise. And this is worse since the advent of four strokes (not a hater though) in our sport.
nytsmaC
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6/18/2015 5:48am
HackMan162 wrote:
250 lbs, and as CWToy points out, that is for a somewhat minimal battery. The batter weight is going to need to come down, and lsat...
250 lbs, and as CWToy points out, that is for a somewhat minimal battery. The batter weight is going to need to come down, and lsat longer for these to become viable. Also, the spec states 12" of travel, but fails to mention any details on the suspension. Should we assume this is Chinese crap suspension that "LOOKS" like Showa/KYB? If so, add another 1-2K to the price to put viable components on it. I could very well be wrong on that side though.

For now, no thanks. I'll stick to my RM250 smoker!
250lbs isn't that bad considering your typical 450 is close to that, full of fuel. Needs to be trimmed down, but they're not too far off.

If you only needed a 35min run time I wonder how much smaller/lighter they could get it.

A lot less moving parts would hopefully make the bike feel much lighter while riding, but I haven't read anything in regards to that.
HenryA
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6/18/2015 6:03am
Man I would do anything for a track and a electric bike that I can ride in the city. It would be awesome. There obvisouly has to be new rules if we want to see them compete on a professional level but we will be there. KTM has a decent bike, mostly for fun tho, but still a great bike for the average Joe that want's to ride for 30minutes on the weekends.

early
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6/18/2015 6:44am
To me this thread highlights the differences in everyones opinions concerning something we all love to do. Ill give my opinion on the subject as someone who has experience riding dirtbikes, mountain bikes, racing rc cars and working on electric personal transportation.

1. Battery technology is not ready for full scale exclusive use yet. They are too big, heavy and expensive. Mostly too expensive. Let this issue get hashed out with electric/hybrid cars as well as small electronics before you try to implement it for the demands of an electric dirtbike.

2. Electric dirtbikes will be a bit different from gas powered dirtbikes and will hold a place alongside them for a long ling time. They will not be a direct replacement in the way 4 strokes replaced 2 strokes in less than 10 years.

3. Electric motor technology is just as fun as gas engines, its just different. The guy who said electric rc is not fun is in a very very small minority. Yes gas is fun and the sound and the feel is cool but the ease of use, cost and opportunities of use of electric rc has made almost everyone switch. That goes for cars and planes/rotors.

4. The argument and science behind man made climate change is strong, but dirtbikes are so insignificant that their contribution should be ignored.

5. The impact of mountain bikes on the landscape is so minimal compared to motorized vehicles. To ride a dirtbike on a designated mountain bike/hiking trail is very disrespectful towards the mountain bike community, not just the environmental community. I really enjoy riding mountain bikes because of the natural experience it is vs dirtbikes. The way the trails are more organic and the sound of just the chain and your breathing is what most cyclists love. Again its just different.

6. The most important thing about electric dirtbikes is sound, not pollution. As others have said this opens up the possibility for more tracks and backyard riding as well as easier indoor riding.

7. The price will be too high for a long time (10+ years at least) for electric to be more than a niche offering.
Fresh
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6/18/2015 7:21am
I really wonder how these bikes would perform on a rough track, would it be much different even with high end suspension components?
I can't get over the fact they look like a pit bike!
6/18/2015 7:28am
nytsmaC wrote:
I want one that weighs under 230lbs, 250F level performance, good quality components (KYB/Showa is fine), good brakes, good build quality, battery life of at least...
I want one that weighs under 230lbs, 250F level performance, good quality components (KYB/Showa is fine), good brakes, good build quality, battery life of at least 400 hours with a 1hr minimum run time before performance starts to drop, for close to ten grand. Make it feel and perform like a regular MX bike and I'm there. Don't go crazy trying to reinvent the wheel like Cannondale did and fuck it up.
So you're waiting for the transition to magnesium ion batteries. That's still a bit far off. Presently the new batteries are 30% smaller than just last year with same performance. Motors are are golden, controllers are golden, it's just the battery technology. It's changing so fast anything you invest in this year is obsolete soon.
TM
JeepnMike
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Enumclaw, WA, USA
6/18/2015 7:33am
Krazyk2774 wrote:
It would be awesome to trail ride, if you could get the range comparable to current internal combustion bikes, and get the price down to compete...
It would be awesome to trail ride, if you could get the range comparable to current internal combustion bikes, and get the price down to compete with current machines. I would buy one!
What I wonder is what the environmental nuts would find to complain about! No noise, no pollution, they would really have to work hard to keep us out of Our forests and off Our public land ! Lol
731chopper wrote:
Erosion.
X2. Motorcycles, be it gas or electric, are ALWAYS going to be considered an ORV. The hopes of electric bikes changing how we ride on public lands isn't going to happen. The thought is nice, and as the environmentally conscious riders that we all are, we could hope that would change the logic, but the greenies will always bundle us with the off-road vehicles (quads, Jeeps), and the amount of tearing up of the dirt we do is what drives them. The idea of riding an electric MX bike on an equestrian or MTB park (that was probably once upon a time a trail you rode a MX bike on) sure does sound sweet, but it is never going to happen.

On the other hand, an electric MX bike opens up endless possibilities on private lands in MUCH more rural places than we can currently ride! I don't have a bike because of the lack of tracks / places to ride anymore, electric bikes will change all of that. I think this is great!
CoccoBill
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6/18/2015 8:07am
Fresh wrote:
I really wonder how these bikes would perform on a rough track, would it be much different even with high end suspension components? I can't get...
I really wonder how these bikes would perform on a rough track, would it be much different even with high end suspension components?
I can't get over the fact they look like a pit bike!
This doesn't look like a pit bike at all...


ginger969
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6/18/2015 9:06am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2015 9:08am
Fresh wrote:
I really wonder how these bikes would perform on a rough track, would it be much different even with high end suspension components? I can't get...
I really wonder how these bikes would perform on a rough track, would it be much different even with high end suspension components?
I can't get over the fact they look like a pit bike!
CoccoBill wrote:
This doesn't look like a pit bike at all... [img]http://www.altamotors.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/mx-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.altamotors.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/mx-2.jpg[/img]
This doesn't look like a pit bike at all...


Yeah I think the bikes look soooo sick! They have ohlins and Brembo brakes and all the trim parts you would find on a KTM or high end mx'er...I REALLY want to ride one but no opportunity has come up at this point haha
ACBraap
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6/18/2015 9:30am
erikcrvjl wrote:
Personally I don't see myself ever being a customer to any electric motorcycle company. Just because it's cheap and good for the environment doesn't mean it's...
Personally I don't see myself ever being a customer to any electric motorcycle company. Just because it's cheap and good for the environment doesn't mean it's fun to ride. Just look at all the hate four strokes get for being too easy to ride, now take away the clutch & gears and see how much riders like that. There's nothing about an electric motor that will make it fun to ride especially without the beloved sound of a motor we all like to hear. While I respect these companies for trying I believe it's a lost cause and they will end up losing money in this market.
1st, they will develop ways to tune the power delivery to produce the powerband desired, giving the hit that makes riding fun.

2nd, what REALLY makes riding fun is the ability to do it often, without driving hours. That's what electric will do. The single biggest complaint against dirt bikes is noise. This stops that complaint in its tracks.
Sidecar
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6/18/2015 10:26am
All looks good and very interesting and as mentioned already the TT zero race continues to impress.
Serious question, with electric motors having a lot of tourqe I wonder how well they would pull a sidecar? Could this be the future for us?
6/18/2015 10:47am
MR. X wrote:
Make way for the no stroke taliban
Tal-e-ban?
ginger969
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6/19/2015 11:15am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/06/18/95083/s1200_58428809.jpg[/img]


haha i love these
RangerLee
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6/19/2015 11:58am
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with one, with enduros you start with your engine off and then have to start and go. This guy grabbed a massive hole shot as the bike is basically switch on and go, no kick start, just twist the throttle.

The best part was watching the rocky climb though as he ran in to slower riders from a previous group, many were stalling in the rocks heading up a good grade incline. His bike had no worries on stalling, he would stop when someone was in his way, move the front wheel and twist throttle and go again. No worrying about the clutch or stalling out.

It was pretty sick, and I think I want one.
ginger969
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6/19/2015 1:40pm
RangerLee wrote:
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with...
I have been trying to stay updated on E bikes for a bit now. There is a video out of someone running an Enduro race with one, with enduros you start with your engine off and then have to start and go. This guy grabbed a massive hole shot as the bike is basically switch on and go, no kick start, just twist the throttle.

The best part was watching the rocky climb though as he ran in to slower riders from a previous group, many were stalling in the rocks heading up a good grade incline. His bike had no worries on stalling, he would stop when someone was in his way, move the front wheel and twist throttle and go again. No worrying about the clutch or stalling out.

It was pretty sick, and I think I want one.
I think you're referencing the videos done by Zero...I actually witnessed this in a hare scramble 6 hour ironman race two weeks ago where Zero did very well and got the holeshot by far!

Here's one video example haha :
jasonward73
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6/19/2015 2:31pm
If you have any doubts of battery potential go test drive a Tesla Model S. If that technology is scaleable to a MX bike I'll be interested.

I love my Tesla. It's like having roller coaster acceleration for a daily driver. Too fun!



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