Posts
643
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Southern MD, MD, USA
Edited Date/Time
6/5/2015 7:13pm
To start off, I’m a 27 yr old novice/intermediate rider that rides MX about once a week. In my searching online, I heard a lot about comparisons of the new Showa TAC production forks and how they were very close to A-Kit TAC forks. Even directly from Pro Circuit “The stock suspension is incredible and for normal folks, an A kit is not worth it.” So I bought the 2015 KX450F last year and had Pro Circuit re-valve the stock suspension.
Stock Revalved suspension:
REALLY good. Plush, predictable and very stable. I never had any issues with the stock suspension. In reality, the confidence I gained allowed me to increase my speed on the track. I could push and make passes through the downhill rough sections with large braking bumps faster than my competition. The suspension would soak it up in a predictable manner and track straight as an arrow. On larger hits, the forks would bottom out. It wasn’t a bone jarring bottoming, but you know you bottomed. I added 10cc of oil to the left fork which did help a lot, but they would still bottom out. In the end, this stock suspension is REALLY good.
Then I found a deal on an older (2007) Pro Circuit A kit. I decided to pull the trigger and sent them directly to Pro Circuit for set up. I’ve now put about 4 hours on them and since reviews on A kits from us normal folk are very hard to find, I decided to post this up.
A kit:
I’ve used this kit at 2 rough tracks in my area so far. A race at budds creek and practice day at tomahawk, both known for being pretty rough. Budds creek gets some large braking bump fast downhill sections to really put the suspension through the wringer. Initial opinion is, WOW! Even though this is an older kit, these things are really nice. I could push even harder (faster) through those same sections. The downhill breaking bumps and the big rollers that people get beat up going through. I made multiple passes in the big roller section at budds last weekend because the suspension is superb. It’s more plush than the stock TAC forks, and I haven’t found the bottom yet. I used all but ¼” of the travel, perfect. The nicest thing about it is that there is no point in the stroke where it transitions from smooth to harsh prior to bottoming. It’s seemingly plush all the way through the stroke – I have no idea how I haven’t bottomed out as I was intentionally slamming into stuff to give it the full test. With the combo of the suspension and the 22mm offset PC triples (slightly less than stock), turning was improved as well. Twist the throttle in straight sections, chopped out turns, acceleration bumps, etc and the bike tracks straight and in predictable manner. I can’t wait to spend some more time messing with clickers and having fun with it.
To sum up the A kit in 1 word, I’ll choose “CHEATING”. But hey, I’m an adult that works hard and could finally afford the A kit. I’m totally fine “cheating” when I’m racing against 17 year olds that don’t have to worry about work on Monday! The production TAC forks are a really, really good fork. I’m not going to go into which suspension company to use as everyone has their own opinion, I can only vouch for the company that I chose. They work beautifully. I’ve heard countless times that (1) A kits aren’t worth it for slow people and (2) they will actually be worse because they’re too stiff for mortals. I can counter that with my own experience. A kits are definitely worth it even if you are a slow guy, if you can afford them. Now, I wouldn’t pay $10K for a new set, but I can justify buying a used set. You get a bit more “feedback” because the tubes are more stiff but the suspension itself is really plush. Take this review for what it is – 1 slow guys experience comparing 2 sets of suspension.
Stock Revalved suspension:
REALLY good. Plush, predictable and very stable. I never had any issues with the stock suspension. In reality, the confidence I gained allowed me to increase my speed on the track. I could push and make passes through the downhill rough sections with large braking bumps faster than my competition. The suspension would soak it up in a predictable manner and track straight as an arrow. On larger hits, the forks would bottom out. It wasn’t a bone jarring bottoming, but you know you bottomed. I added 10cc of oil to the left fork which did help a lot, but they would still bottom out. In the end, this stock suspension is REALLY good.
Then I found a deal on an older (2007) Pro Circuit A kit. I decided to pull the trigger and sent them directly to Pro Circuit for set up. I’ve now put about 4 hours on them and since reviews on A kits from us normal folk are very hard to find, I decided to post this up.
A kit:
I’ve used this kit at 2 rough tracks in my area so far. A race at budds creek and practice day at tomahawk, both known for being pretty rough. Budds creek gets some large braking bump fast downhill sections to really put the suspension through the wringer. Initial opinion is, WOW! Even though this is an older kit, these things are really nice. I could push even harder (faster) through those same sections. The downhill breaking bumps and the big rollers that people get beat up going through. I made multiple passes in the big roller section at budds last weekend because the suspension is superb. It’s more plush than the stock TAC forks, and I haven’t found the bottom yet. I used all but ¼” of the travel, perfect. The nicest thing about it is that there is no point in the stroke where it transitions from smooth to harsh prior to bottoming. It’s seemingly plush all the way through the stroke – I have no idea how I haven’t bottomed out as I was intentionally slamming into stuff to give it the full test. With the combo of the suspension and the 22mm offset PC triples (slightly less than stock), turning was improved as well. Twist the throttle in straight sections, chopped out turns, acceleration bumps, etc and the bike tracks straight and in predictable manner. I can’t wait to spend some more time messing with clickers and having fun with it.
To sum up the A kit in 1 word, I’ll choose “CHEATING”. But hey, I’m an adult that works hard and could finally afford the A kit. I’m totally fine “cheating” when I’m racing against 17 year olds that don’t have to worry about work on Monday! The production TAC forks are a really, really good fork. I’m not going to go into which suspension company to use as everyone has their own opinion, I can only vouch for the company that I chose. They work beautifully. I’ve heard countless times that (1) A kits aren’t worth it for slow people and (2) they will actually be worse because they’re too stiff for mortals. I can counter that with my own experience. A kits are definitely worth it even if you are a slow guy, if you can afford them. Now, I wouldn’t pay $10K for a new set, but I can justify buying a used set. You get a bit more “feedback” because the tubes are more stiff but the suspension itself is really plush. Take this review for what it is – 1 slow guys experience comparing 2 sets of suspension.
see you have an A Kit shock as well. can you expand on if the fork or shock were more noticeably better than the stock stuff?
I would say that the difference in the forks are easier for the average rider to feel only because it's easier to translate what you're feeling in your hands/arms to how the forks are performing. The shock, while it's harder to pinpoint exactly, is also much better than stock. It tracks really well in every situation I've put it in so far. Chopped out acceleration bumps coming out of a rut for example - stay on the throttle and hit your marks, the rear end tracks right along with the ground without losing traction, stepping out, etc.
Didn't change anything else from before. Not a thing except the visual coating.
He was dumbfounded and it was a giant laugh.
Truth is, few use a properly setup set of stock stuff to its potential.
This is why when you work with engineers, it is OK to say "It's worse" or "I can't feel a difference"
The placebo effect is strong. If you believe its better, it is.
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What were the stock settings you used in the 2015 stock forks?
.. I read you added oil..im still at stock levels. I was curious about the clickers and PSI you used or settings you found best . I ride the same 15 kx450f and get to rent budds once a year.. please let me know what the stock forks were set at in your testing..
however, IMO I think they come stock valved way too stiff (at least on the RMZ they seem to have a ton of high speed damping), and also, they are very tight when new and don't seem to loosen up until 10 hours or so.
I think this inherent stiffness is why people have troubles setting up the air spring when they first get these forks.
nice review, the kawi OEM forks certainly do look trick.
If I had to guess, the preference you have for your A's is what I call...
The Bones Factor.
I'm guessing you have well sprung A's with Jim's Ubber-Forgiving "Glen-Helen" Valving...
What's interesting is, I've heard the same from the very few people I know that have ridden true A-Kit suspension. The two friends I know said very, very similar things as you did...even describing it as cheating like you did.
It makes me wonder why tuners, like ENZO who I have an affinity for and the deepest respect after 13 years of them tuning my bikes, always talk VET B riders like me out of A-KIT...even talked out of Kashima coating the forks as they say we won't notice the difference.
So last year when I dropped $6k on a carbon mountain bike, after 6 months of steady rides, I sprung and upgraded the FOX Float fork to the Factory edition with Kashima coat. Did I feel a difference in non-Kashima vs. Kashima? You bet your ass I did. I could feel the subtle plushness gains just riding through the cobble stone parking lot to the trail. It was noticeable.
Anyway, thanks. Makes me kinda sad I didn't pull the trigger in my 30's when i was in shape enough to go fast enough to really take advantage of it.
Doug
Pit Row
dear kawasaki: my new bike slush fund is doing very well..I could go to the dealer and get a small truckload of new KX450F's. To make this situation even more annoying to me, there are dealers within driving distance blowing out 14 models for $6k out the door. I still won't buy them. I will most likely just keep shopping for a used spring fork 10-12 KX450F. Its pretty sad when you have to buy a used bike over a brand new one for durability and ease of use
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