Everybody agree the 125 class is badly needed?

PEPE001
Posts
708
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW, DE
3/25/2015 6:09am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them. I'd...
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them.
I'd like to see KTM powerparts offer a head/ pipe/ cylinder kit for the 250sx that had lower peak hp but a much broader and smoother powerband, similar to a 250F. That would be a compelling package and could run for years. Low noise, etc...
Flip109 wrote:
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx...
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx and he says its much smoother to ride...Its just a head cylinder and pipe from what I could see.
That is called XC and torque and power are somewhat comparable.

the SXF is 2013 and the XC is 2009 or 2010





Grizz
Posts
3105
Joined
7/2/2012
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
3/25/2015 6:11am
#991 wrote:
Yeah, just like a 450 won't wear a rear tire down any faster than a 125. Sorry mate, any credibility you had is gone. I worked...
Yeah, just like a 450 won't wear a rear tire down any faster than a 125. Sorry mate, any credibility you had is gone.

I worked at the Kart shop I raced for, running the Dyno. Feel free to tell me how it is though.

Valentino Rossi's mechanic's son raced Comer 90's. He used to get us to build his sons engines.


You're getting Bob and I confused. I am the one that said the tires will last the same.
3/25/2015 6:12am
125 and 250 pls ! Miss the good old days !
Uncle Tony
Posts
4149
Joined
6/30/2014
Location
New York, NY, USA
3/25/2015 6:12am
A ring and a base gasket for my yz125, 13 bucks with tax and 45 minutes of my time

The Shop

pilotdude
Posts
3849
Joined
1/12/2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
3/25/2015 6:13am
Just an observation, but the most superlatives I've ever seen used were definitely when James Stewart was riding in the 125 class.
#991
Posts
1685
Joined
8/7/2013
Location
Melbourne, AU
3/25/2015 6:16am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 6:29am
Grizz wrote:
Umm, what? The tire will last the same amount of time... What do you mean the 450 needs more maintenance time? It literally doesn't. What new...
Umm, what? The tire will last the same amount of time... What do you mean the 450 needs more maintenance time? It literally doesn't. What new 2 stroke engines are you talking about? They have been the same since, since two strokes... I mean that's the best part about a 2 stroke, it's so simple.

A 250F is still more reliable than a 125 with the same rider and modifications. But 250F mods and rebuilds will cost more (albeit less frequent). This is really simple stuff honestly.
#991 wrote:
Rubbish! I wouldn't even bother to line up in the gates without fresh rubber on my 450. You saying the torque, and weight of a 450...
Rubbish! I wouldn't even bother to line up in the gates without fresh rubber on my 450.
You saying the torque, and weight of a 450 wears a tire no quicker than a 125. Ya trippin! It's not even logical.

More oil changes, oil filters, valve clearances, tire changes. How quickly can you tear a 125 down in comparison to a 450? By the time a lap top loads I can finish tuning my 125. All takes more time.

The comparison needs to be between a 250F and 125 anyway. 250F' are grenades. If you're rebuilding a 125 frequently I'd suggest using better 2T oil and fuel.
BobPA wrote:
You're dilusional man. 450's wear tires quicker, but not exponentially like you make it sound. What about the constant 125 clutch and top end maintenance....I guess...
You're dilusional man. 450's wear tires quicker, but not exponentially like you make it sound. What about the constant 125 clutch and top end maintenance....I guess that doesn't count as "time".
You both did Grizz. Not to the same extent I'll admit. But a 450 destroys a rear tire in one race meet.

I was sponsored by Michelin, if I hadn't been I couldn't have afforded to even race a 450. Properly.

I may be wrong about one costing more than the other to race. Didn't do the math because It's a pointless comparo. But I'm right about the tires.
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/25/2015 6:18am
newmann wrote:
Weak fuggin argument comparing a 125 to a 450. No wonder people on the outside refer to the level of stupidy inside here. You just can't...
Weak fuggin argument comparing a 125 to a 450. No wonder people on the outside refer to the level of stupidy inside here. You just can't make this shit up.


Let's compare a $200,000.00 Pro Circuit Kawasaki 250F to a new Service Honda 500. How's that for stupid? Go put 100 hours on each of those and get back to me. Crickets....
Grizz wrote:
It wasn't an argument against your point. I was pointing things out to those few that think racing would instantly be cheaper for some reason. I...
It wasn't an argument against your point. I was pointing things out to those few that think racing would instantly be cheaper for some reason.

I compared a 125 to a 450 because with their logic a 450 is un-affordable to race and 125's are the topic at hand.
Who said a 450 was unaffordable to race? No one. But every single time a 125 topic gets brought up, the 450 chest thumpers all fill the room like it has something to do with them. Like comparing apples and oil tankers.
Uncle Tony
Posts
4149
Joined
6/30/2014
Location
New York, NY, USA
3/25/2015 6:28am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 6:33am
I like the "450 chest thumpers" comment, I'm running with that at my practice track today, I don't think this was a 2 vs 4 stroke post to begin with
Suns_PSD
Posts
989
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX, USA
3/25/2015 6:31am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them. I'd...
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them.
I'd like to see KTM powerparts offer a head/ pipe/ cylinder kit for the 250sx that had lower peak hp but a much broader and smoother powerband, similar to a 250F. That would be a compelling package and could run for years. Low noise, etc...
Flip109 wrote:
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx...
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx and he says its much smoother to ride...Its just a head cylinder and pipe from what I could see.
I'm very familiar with the 300 kits. Having 12hp more than a 250F and having too much displacement for the 250 class isn't at all what I envisioned. I want a slower 250, not a faster one even if it is smooth.
PEPE001
Posts
708
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW, DE
3/25/2015 6:34am
Lets clean up with some myth!

1. Topend
Depending on you riding style and usage this varies.
Racing: Ring replacement every 5-10 hours piston replacement every 20 hours that's what I did!
Just riding or not hard racing: add another 10-15 hours to it.

Cost: 80 - 100$ including Gaskets

If you race you need to replace the Piston on a 4 stroke every 6 Race or 15h
So cost will be some how equal work on the 4 stroke takes way longer


2. Clutch
I raced my 125 hard even in deep sand replaced the clutch plates maybe mid season depending on how often we raced in deep sand. No deep sand no clutch work was needed for a season.
Cost here 60$

If you race a 4 stroke it might be the same.

3. Fuel:
Yes if you race hard a 2 stroke will need more fuel in theory 100% more but that's not correct.
I found about 30% more compared t a 4 stroke.

Here you do have an advantage with the 4 stroke less fuel and no premix

4 Engine Oil change:
Not needed due to premix!

4 Stroke could be sort of expensive.
Change every 10-15 hours

Cost:
10$ per Filter
5-8$ per oil filling.

Lets assume you race Hard both bikes the 250f will cost more
If you just ride it will be somewhat equal!

Maintenance:
Some say a 4 stroke doesn't need that much maintenance like a 2 stroke. (Topend,Clutch aso.)
That's not true by ignoring the fact that you have to do the same work on a 4 stroke it doesn't mean you don't have to do it.

Lets see the recommended Service intervals CR125 and CRF250R
Piston:
Replacement
125 3 races or 7,5 hours cost 100$
250 6 races or 15 hours cost 230$

Transmission Oil:
125 3 Races or 7,5 hours
250 6 races or 15 hours

Engine oil including filter:
125 not needed
250F 6 races or 15 hours


So from my point of view the discussion is useless about running cost will be somewhat equal.
The amount of work which needs to be done is more on a 4 stroke.
Especially the Topend is not complicated just takes way longer.

I can change a piston of a 125 in less than 30 minutes means even between Moto's what I did sometimes.
A 4 Stroke needs way more time, did it on my CRF250R sometimes and it always takes 1-2 hours to make it right.
Suns_PSD
Posts
989
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX, USA
3/25/2015 6:34am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them. I'd...
Those (125) bikes burn a lot of fuel and eat a lot of engine parts because they are ran so hard. I don't like them.
I'd like to see KTM powerparts offer a head/ pipe/ cylinder kit for the 250sx that had lower peak hp but a much broader and smoother powerband, similar to a 250F. That would be a compelling package and could run for years. Low noise, etc...
Flip109 wrote:
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx...
That would be nice. Not sure if you know Ace B. being you are in Austin, but he put a 300 kit on his 2015 250sx and he says its much smoother to ride...Its just a head cylinder and pipe from what I could see.
PEPE001 wrote:
That is called XC and torque and power are somewhat comparable. the SXF is 2013 and the XC is 2009 or 2010 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/25/85064/s1200_KTM_250_SX_F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/25/85065/s1200_XC.jpg[/img]
That is called XC and torque and power are somewhat comparable.

the SXF is 2013 and the XC is 2009 or 2010





Yeah that underscores how peaky a 2 stroke is even though that wasn't your intention. I'm talking 1970s enduro 2 stroke powerband. You will know you are getting close when the expansion chamber looks more like a 4 stroke pipe.
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/25/2015 6:37am
Uncle Tony wrote:
I like the "450 chest thumpers" comment, I'm running with that at my practice track today, I don't think this was a 2 vs 4 stroke...
I like the "450 chest thumpers" comment, I'm running with that at my practice track today, I don't think this was a 2 vs 4 stroke post to begin with
It wasn't a 2 stroke versus 4 stroke post to begin with but the 450 fanboys ALWAYS make it into one. Every single time.....
PEPE001
Posts
708
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW, DE
3/25/2015 6:39am
Suns_PSD wrote:
Yeah that underscores how peaky a 2 stroke is even though that wasn't your intention. I'm talking 1970s enduro 2 stroke powerband. You will know you...
Yeah that underscores how peaky a 2 stroke is even though that wasn't your intention. I'm talking 1970s enduro 2 stroke powerband. You will know you are getting close when the expansion chamber looks more like a 4 stroke pipe.
That could be done with changing the porting and head!

Will cost about 500 - 600$ and most tuner can do it in 1-2 days.
If they use a flow bench it might take some more days.

The good pat is the power valve it can make the power band way better than in the 70's
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/25/2015 6:40am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 6:41am
It also wasn't a 300cc 2 stroke thread either. But don't let that LOOK, IT'S A SQUIRREL!!!
#991
Posts
1685
Joined
8/7/2013
Location
Melbourne, AU
3/25/2015 6:46am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 6:50am
newmann wrote:
It also wasn't a 300cc 2 stroke thread either. But don't let that LOOK, IT'S A SQUIRREL!!!
LMAO.

If you check the links and go to his facebook page. He's built some rippa 125 engines. That's who builds mine.

Here you go. 125 Dyno results.

https://www.facebook.com/TwoStrokePerformance/photos/a.284879841579324…

He loves the Whizz Bangers.
timlake
Posts
157
Joined
10/19/2012
Location
GB
3/25/2015 6:48am
timlake wrote:
Does horsepower have a direct effect on quality of racing and appeal to people outside the sport? Hell no. 7 to 8 years ago F1 cars...
Does horsepower have a direct effect on quality of racing and appeal to people outside the sport? Hell no.

7 to 8 years ago F1 cars were much faster than they are now, extra downforce, more powerful engines and it's been reigned back in.

Has the racing been affected from those reductions of speed directly? Nope.

I think we could quite easily have the same quality of SX and MX racing with less power for sure.

Would bike manufactures accept a change like that? Also Hell no.
BobPA wrote:
F1 is now unbearably boring, have you not watched any races recently? Watch the Australian GP from 2015...
Really? Because I swear last season was one of the most exciting to date - yeah, there's a team out front winning everything, but SX had that for the past 4 season with RV too...
wfo4ever
Posts
789
Joined
8/3/2014
Location
USA
3/25/2015 7:08am
newmann wrote:
I do. Hard to believe the AMA, you know those guys who are "protecting your right to ride" (as long as it is a double displacement...
I do. Hard to believe the AMA, you know those guys who are "protecting your right to ride" (as long as it is a double displacement 4 stroke) could skullphuck the sport so bad. Crooks and thieves they are....
I agree with newmann on his opinion and posts on 125's, he is a very wise man and I have never meet him, I have only read his posts on this forum. I have been reading this forum for years and just joined recently and have made some posts myself. Now I remember why I never wanted to join or post in the past on this forum.
#991
Posts
1685
Joined
8/7/2013
Location
Melbourne, AU
3/25/2015 7:18am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 7:21am
newmann wrote:
I do. Hard to believe the AMA, you know those guys who are "protecting your right to ride" (as long as it is a double displacement...
I do. Hard to believe the AMA, you know those guys who are "protecting your right to ride" (as long as it is a double displacement 4 stroke) could skullphuck the sport so bad. Crooks and thieves they are....
wfo4ever wrote:
I agree with newmann on his opinion and posts on 125's, he is a very wise man and I have never meet him, I have only...
I agree with newmann on his opinion and posts on 125's, he is a very wise man and I have never meet him, I have only read his posts on this forum. I have been reading this forum for years and just joined recently and have made some posts myself. Now I remember why I never wanted to join or post in the past on this forum.
HTFU. You're a MX'er FFS!

Don't suck, sook and leave ya Wombat (Eats, roots and leaves).
sende
Posts
2394
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
FI
3/25/2015 7:36am
I'll just leave this here: I agree!!!
cslacker
Posts
390
Joined
6/6/2014
Location
Glendale, AZ, USA
3/25/2015 7:41am
Grizz wrote:
A 2015 YZ125 is $2200 less than a 2015 YZ450F (based on MSRP). How much is a full blown race motor for a 125? (seriously asking...
A 2015 YZ125 is $2200 less than a 2015 YZ450F (based on MSRP).

How much is a full blown race motor for a 125? (seriously asking, I've never had or raced a 125...
Sorry if someone else has already answered your question. A full blown race motor really depends on what you want out of it. Normally it would just be porting/head mods and a pipe. There isn't much else you can do to them.

While he is one of the more budget friendly options, Porting/ head mods for a 125 from Eric Gorr is $200. http://www.goforwardmotion.com/2Strokes.php

And a pipe and silencer, if you choose to add them, is about $300. Many prefer the stock since there isn't much to gain from a pipe.

Piston kits would still only be the average $100-$150. If you are doing 100 hours over the season I would say 4-5 piston/ring changes would be in order. So we will say worst case scenario of $750.

If you are blowing out cranks under 200 hours you really need to look at your air filtration and choice/ratio of premix. By then most racers would have sold the bike and bought a newer model.

That puts us at a total of $1,050 for engine build/ maintenance over the course of a race season (assuming 100 hours).

I'm sure someone will hop on and give some other ridiculous numbers but this is a pretty solid estimate with many variables involved though.

cslacker
Posts
390
Joined
6/6/2014
Location
Glendale, AZ, USA
3/25/2015 8:07am
PEPE001 wrote:
That could be done with changing the porting and head! Will cost about 500 - 600$ and most tuner can do it in 1-2 days. If...
That could be done with changing the porting and head!

Will cost about 500 - 600$ and most tuner can do it in 1-2 days.
If they use a flow bench it might take some more days.

The good pat is the power valve it can make the power band way better than in the 70's
I've had my cr250 ported with head mods and a bunch of other things thrown in to add bottom end and smooth it all out. Sometimes the initial design of the engine is too far off from an ideal "torque" motor that no amount of work will get you to your ideal. Just my experience. And don't get me wrong, I love my engine the way it is now, but it's still way harder to ride than any 250f.
rmgsxr
Posts
544
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Oak Grove, MO, USA
3/25/2015 8:22am
Newman I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but I do agree that the 125 class is an important step. Hell I fought my son and made him ride one. He didn't want too.

Here is what is happening in my market. I have brand new 125's to sell. One of the ones that you posted a photo of. They don't sell very well.

Next, our state series has a 125 two stroke only class and every year the promoter has to make the hard decision on weather or not to keep the class around. Not enough entries. I hope it is better this year because I am making my kid race it.

It sucks but I see first hand a good reason why there are only a few manufactures participating.
PEPE001
Posts
708
Joined
3/4/2015
Location
NRW, DE
3/25/2015 8:27am
cslacker wrote:
I've had my cr250 ported with head mods and a bunch of other things thrown in to add bottom end and smooth it all out. Sometimes...
I've had my cr250 ported with head mods and a bunch of other things thrown in to add bottom end and smooth it all out. Sometimes the initial design of the engine is too far off from an ideal "torque" motor that no amount of work will get you to your ideal. Just my experience. And don't get me wrong, I love my engine the way it is now, but it's still way harder to ride than any 250f.
I agree.

Doesn't matter if 125 or 250 2 stroke you will never have similar torque compared to an 250f.
The engine design is way different. But you can gat quit close.


jeffro503
Posts
27645
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
3/25/2015 9:05am
GrapeApe wrote:
Stop trying. In every one of these nauseating threads I bring up the schoolboy and 2 stroke classes, and literally the next post will be "it's...
Stop trying. In every one of these nauseating threads I bring up the schoolboy and 2 stroke classes, and literally the next post will be "it's crazy that we force our kids to go from an 85 to a 250". Going from an 85 to a 250 and skipping the schoolboy class is a choice, not something forced on anyone.
jeffro503 wrote:
It seems you , A. Dleary and a couple others have missed the entire fucking point! Nobody is saying there isn't a 125 or 2 stroke...
It seems you , A. Dleary and a couple others have missed the entire fucking point!

Nobody is saying there isn't a 125 or 2 stroke class out there.....what they are saying is.....nobody makes 125's except KTM and Yamaha! And that the other 3 popular Jap brand bikes fucked their own ass by not making them any more. Instead , they push their 250F's on kids coming right off the 85's! Because to be competitive in any regional class , you need to be on a 250F.....which is fucking stupid!

You and the other ones seem to be lacking what this thread means and what people are complaining about. How ironic that you come in here ( totally confused ) and say " These guys are clueless and don't race ".

A.Dleary was right.........JESUS!
GrapeApe wrote:
3 of the six manufacturers make them, and 3 don't. What evidence do you have that the 3 that don't sell them "push their 250f's on...
3 of the six manufacturers make them, and 3 don't. What evidence do you have that the 3 that don't sell them "push their 250f's on kids coming right off the 85's"? Would you agree Adam Cianciarulo was the most hyped amateur rider since James Stewart? He elected to ride a 125 until his crew decided he was ready for a 250f. On the other hand you have kids that ride for KTM, Husky and Yamaha that elect to skip the 125 and go straight to schoolboy. The key word here is "elect", nobody is forcing these kids to do anything except maybe their parents.

My point was GA , was that the other 3 companies ( Honda in particular ) stopped making the 125 and 250 which helped kill those classes. Back in the day , the 125's and 250's were 2/3rd's of the pro sport along with the 500 class. They abandoned the 500 class because I think for most mortals , the 500's were just crazy fast. But now days , we have the 250F class which puts out the same HP ( or close ) to what we used to have in the 250 2 stroke class. And we have 450F's that are putting out similar HP numbers to the old 500's. The 125 class pretty much died.

Which was my entire point. Yes , it's still going on at almost every track but the choices are limited . I always thought the 125 class was the most important step for kids moving up. But to be competitive now days they have to jump on a highly modified 250F.

I didn't mean to sound like a dick ( so sorry about that ), but on moto boards you are going to get 2 stroke fans , and guys that slam on the dudes who like them. Hell....I ride both too , they both have their place. But killing off the 125 class ( for the most part ) in my eyes , was a crime against the sport.
BobPA
Posts
8334
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
USA
3/25/2015 9:22am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2015 9:32am
#991 wrote:
Been riding and racing 125's for 30yrs.. I've never replaced a top end or clutch through necessity. I also ride my 125's off road. Where I...
Been riding and racing 125's for 30yrs.. I've never replaced a top end or clutch through necessity.

I also ride my 125's off road. Where I live, you're either going up or down mountains. The clutch cops heaps more of a flogging in the bush.

I raced Rotax 125 in Karts for 5 years, won 2x Australasian titles. Never blew an engine or replaced a top end. Actually, never spent one cent on the engine in that time. No gears. That biatch revved at a constant 19K. "Go well. Go Shell".


WTF are you blokes doing to your bikes?
BobPA wrote:
Consistent 19k and never did top end work? Sounds like one hell of a barroom story to me. 19k RPM is such a load of BS...
Consistent 19k and never did top end work? Sounds like one hell of a barroom story to me. 19k RPM is such a load of BS that I am not going to respond to anything else you say.

#991 wrote:
Yeah, just like a 450 won't wear a rear tire down any faster than a 125. Sorry mate, any credibility you had is gone. I worked...
Yeah, just like a 450 won't wear a rear tire down any faster than a 125. Sorry mate, any credibility you had is gone.

I worked at the Kart shop I raced for, running the Dyno. Feel free to tell me how it is though.

Valentino Rossi's mechanic's son raced Comer 90's. He used to get us to build his sons engines.


If you read my post you would see that I did say they wear tires faster than a 125. You must have selective reading in the giant delusion you call life.

I will tell you how it is because 19k from a 125cc kart is bullshit and you know it, unless your delusions are taking over again. I have two friends who race the direct drive air cooled bastards that are screamers and they turn closer to 15.5k....their 125 shifters went to 11.5k and that was with their TM. The Pavesi (spelling?) was closer to 10.8k.

Edit : Upon a bit of research I see the F100 karts can run up to 19k...still not a 125 that you claim never has to be rebuilt
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/25/2015 9:23am
rmgsxr wrote:
Newman I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but I do agree that the 125 class is an important step. Hell I fought...
Newman I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but I do agree that the 125 class is an important step. Hell I fought my son and made him ride one. He didn't want too.

Here is what is happening in my market. I have brand new 125's to sell. One of the ones that you posted a photo of. They don't sell very well.

Next, our state series has a 125 two stroke only class and every year the promoter has to make the hard decision on weather or not to keep the class around. Not enough entries. I hope it is better this year because I am making my kid race it.

It sucks but I see first hand a good reason why there are only a few manufactures participating.
I don't doubt that 125's are a hard sell these days. KTM killed them off for a few years too as it was really hard to sell one sitting next to a 144/150. With the double displacement rule it really made them extinct for the most part. With the focus of racing (yes, pro racing) being on the 250F and 450 selling any 2 stroke would seem tough. If there was a National level class though, the 125's would be seen as a more viable option.

125
250 ( 2 and 4 stroke)
Open

Back when these classes were recognized and raced at the national level, not all of them ran the entire season. The 125's and open bikes split the season if I remember correctly. Face it, there are guys who have refused to race SX and outdoors because the schedule was too damn hectic. The 250 SX classes are split regions and only do half a series. Maybe the 125's and 450 class could do half an outdoor series and keep the top guys competing a little longer. Who knows, just a thought ....
Micahdogg
Posts
1263
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
USA
3/25/2015 9:42am
Yes. It makes sense on so many levels. Its is without a doubt a safer bike than a 250F - and it's light years easier/cheaper to maintain. No brainer.

Do a common class rule and let the 250F and 250 smoker be options for the big class. I don't think that we need modern thumpers to totally disappear, but the 450F may have to go the way of the 500cc smoker.
montesagold
Posts
684
Joined
10/15/2009
Location
East, TN, USA
3/25/2015 11:28am
I don't think it happens in supercross, but if they could do a 1 moto race for maybe 6 races of the nationals and allow kids...
I don't think it happens in supercross, but if they could do a 1 moto race for maybe 6 races of the nationals and allow kids to keep their amateur status and forgo any purse, I think that's ideal.

Kids looking to make the jump can try their hand at a high level pro race, privateers who can afford supercross but not nationals can do a shorter series on a cheaper bike, guys who are semi retired can come out and race. I think it would be good for the sport and the industry.

Teams like Geico and Pro Circuit can put their amateurs through the series as a warm up for making the jump and the kids can still race Lorettas if they go that route. They can compete against semi-retired guys and part timers such as a Landon Powell (I think he's usually sx only with a few nats rights?) or a Sean Collier.
I like this option
3/25/2015 12:03pm
#991 wrote:
Been riding and racing 125's for 30yrs.. I've never replaced a top end or clutch through necessity. I also ride my 125's off road. Where I...
Been riding and racing 125's for 30yrs.. I've never replaced a top end or clutch through necessity.

I also ride my 125's off road. Where I live, you're either going up or down mountains. The clutch cops heaps more of a flogging in the bush.

I raced Rotax 125 in Karts for 5 years, won 2x Australasian titles. Never blew an engine or replaced a top end. Actually, never spent one cent on the engine in that time. No gears. That biatch revved at a constant 19K. "Go well. Go Shell".


WTF are you blokes doing to your bikes?
BobPA wrote:
Consistent 19k and never did top end work? Sounds like one hell of a barroom story to me. 19k RPM is such a load of BS...
Consistent 19k and never did top end work? Sounds like one hell of a barroom story to me. 19k RPM is such a load of BS that I am not going to respond to anything else you say.

Lots of those Rotax were built to turn 18K plus.

We had a CR 125 Shifter that ran at 14,500.

You run more like a % of oil though. Around 16:1 it comes out to.

But thats relative to say a low revving 500 only needing 60:1

Post a reply to: Everybody agree the 125 class is badly needed?

The Latest