Smart use of titanium hardware on an MX bike

CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 4/18/2014 5:38pm
4/18/2014 5:38pm
Nothing wrong with buying a few toys if you can afford it! As long as it makes you happy!
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 4/18/2014 10:10pm
4/18/2014 10:10pm
RCS 5.1 ti spring is 2lb4.4oz, stock 5.2 is 3lb4oz

Expensive but cost effective by titanium standards.

Ti front axle is only 3oz lighter than stock.
1
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/18/2014 10:55pm
4/18/2014 10:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/18/2014 10:59pm
nytsmaC wrote:
RCS 5.1 ti spring is 2lb4.4oz, stock 5.2 is 3lb4oz

Expensive but cost effective by titanium standards.

Ti front axle is only 3oz lighter than stock.
Front titanium axle also has the concern about flex. I may be wrong but based on what I have heard in my recent research, there are a few places where it seems some pros do not like titanium because of flex. such as the front axle, swing arm pivot, and the biggest hex bolt on the rear linkage that connects the knuckle to the linkage arm. Also titanium brake pad pins have wear issues. I also hear some use steel nuts with titanium bolts claiming less galling problems. Again, this is just what I heard, not from 1st hand experience.

The biggest piece of hardward that is worth replaceing is the rear axle. The rear axle and nut saved me just a little more than a 1/4 of a pound.
inthebadboycorner 4/19/2014 6:39pm
4/19/2014 6:39pm
inthebadboycorner wrote:
I think it's more effective and cheaper to join Jenny Craig......................

Ti looks so f..ing wicked.
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
People love to use that line, but what if you are already thin? I think it is cheaper to buy a 2 stroke if you ask...
People love to use that line, but what if you are already thin? I think it is cheaper to buy a 2 stroke if you ask me?

I dont understand how titanium "looks wicled" either. A titanium bolt is hardly noticable.. the silver just has a tiny bit different sheen. I have titanium all over the bike now and I dont notice much difference in looks. It is probably the most money I have wasted on a bike ever,
Going by international statistics a large percentage of us could loose a few, or more Kilo's. So it's safe to use "that" line.

You should already own a Two stroke, ? doesn't everyone?

As you know, Ti has a distinctive colour compared to alluminium or stock hardware, so as it is so special, it's wicked!

The Shop

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rocketsocks26 4/19/2014 7:25pm
4/19/2014 7:25pm
how much would it save you if ya go on a dirt?lol unless your a national rider makes no sence, butmake no mistake about it, if ya got the $$$ buy it, cause im no one who can tell someone how to spend their $$$ I can go over board with my bikes! lol
StartedTooLate
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StartedTooLate 4/21/2014 3:13pm
4/21/2014 3:13pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2014 3:23pm
ME686 wrote:
All rotor and sprocket bolts are rotating mass. The savings would be magnified for that reason. Foot peg mount bolts and mounts are pretty heavy. After...
All rotor and sprocket bolts are rotating mass. The savings would be magnified for that reason. Foot peg mount bolts and mounts are pretty heavy. After that it's the axle$!! I lost a few lbs switching the stock rmz 250 pipe to a used!!! Ti yosh. I don't buy new exhausts I'm poor. Weigh tires of different brands...
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
The foot peg bolts on the CRf are quite big, but I am leary of using titamium there for fear of them stetching and snapping off...
The foot peg bolts on the CRf are quite big, but I am leary of using titamium there for fear of them stetching and snapping off since titanium has only half of the modulus of elasticity as steel.
A bolt with a lower modulus and higher yield is LESS likely to come loose if the fastener has any significant shank length. This is because the shank will stretch more for a given level of tension. That means it takes more turns for the fastener to get tight (and to come loose, after it is tightened), if there is any substantial shank length. Heavy engineered rotating machinery (pumps, compressors, turbines, etc) use anchor bolts with sleeves for this reason. They maximize bolt stretch per unit torque.

If I were running a privateer effort on a budget...I would focus on weight farthest from the center of the bike:
*Seat foam
*Exhaust
*Bodywork
*Thin graphics
*Front and rear axles
*Nipples
*Spokes (has anyone ever mfg custom spokes from 300M or a Maraging steel so as to reduce section diameter. The wheels would take forever to build...as you would have a TON of spoke stretch). Ti spokes would have the same effect.
*Rims (LTXs)

For fasteners near the center of the bike...I would not bother. I even recall a story back in the day about a factory rider put a full 120 link chain between the bottom of the motor and the skid plate...and claimed the bike handled a lot better, and it showed on the clock. The team mechanics and tuners made him remove it....LOL.

If money were no limit...I would Ti everything...to get way below the limit...then add weight back where I wanted it...ie a slug of Tungsten at the bottom of the motor.
endurox
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endurox 4/23/2014 8:24am
4/23/2014 8:24am
ME686 wrote:
All rotor and sprocket bolts are rotating mass. The savings would be magnified for that reason. Foot peg mount bolts and mounts are pretty heavy. After...
All rotor and sprocket bolts are rotating mass. The savings would be magnified for that reason. Foot peg mount bolts and mounts are pretty heavy. After that it's the axle$!! I lost a few lbs switching the stock rmz 250 pipe to a used!!! Ti yosh. I don't buy new exhausts I'm poor. Weigh tires of different brands...
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
The foot peg bolts on the CRf are quite big, but I am leary of using titamium there for fear of them stetching and snapping off...
The foot peg bolts on the CRf are quite big, but I am leary of using titamium there for fear of them stetching and snapping off since titanium has only half of the modulus of elasticity as steel.
StartedTooLate wrote:
A bolt with a lower modulus and higher yield is LESS likely to come loose if the fastener has any significant shank length. This is because...
A bolt with a lower modulus and higher yield is LESS likely to come loose if the fastener has any significant shank length. This is because the shank will stretch more for a given level of tension. That means it takes more turns for the fastener to get tight (and to come loose, after it is tightened), if there is any substantial shank length. Heavy engineered rotating machinery (pumps, compressors, turbines, etc) use anchor bolts with sleeves for this reason. They maximize bolt stretch per unit torque.

If I were running a privateer effort on a budget...I would focus on weight farthest from the center of the bike:
*Seat foam
*Exhaust
*Bodywork
*Thin graphics
*Front and rear axles
*Nipples
*Spokes (has anyone ever mfg custom spokes from 300M or a Maraging steel so as to reduce section diameter. The wheels would take forever to build...as you would have a TON of spoke stretch). Ti spokes would have the same effect.
*Rims (LTXs)

For fasteners near the center of the bike...I would not bother. I even recall a story back in the day about a factory rider put a full 120 link chain between the bottom of the motor and the skid plate...and claimed the bike handled a lot better, and it showed on the clock. The team mechanics and tuners made him remove it....LOL.

If money were no limit...I would Ti everything...to get way below the limit...then add weight back where I wanted it...ie a slug of Tungsten at the bottom of the motor.
You can also add replacing the stock battery with a Lithium battery on the KTM and Husky's.
Saves up to 1.4 pounds for 135$.
macz400
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macz400 3/20/2017 5:16pm
3/20/2017 5:16pm
Hate to bring up an old subject, but what do you guys think about using Ti sprocket bolts? I hate the sprocket bolts that come on my KTM (actually all the bolts.) Honda has way better bolts/fasteners. I have a set of Honda Ti bolts new in package and was thinking of using them on my KTM (They are the same size/diameter) Just wasn't sure about using something like Ti on something like a sprocket. Thoughts?
KooyaKooya
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KooyaKooya 3/20/2017 6:24pm
3/20/2017 6:24pm
macz400 wrote:
Hate to bring up an old subject, but what do you guys think about using Ti sprocket bolts? I hate the sprocket bolts that come on...
Hate to bring up an old subject, but what do you guys think about using Ti sprocket bolts? I hate the sprocket bolts that come on my KTM (actually all the bolts.) Honda has way better bolts/fasteners. I have a set of Honda Ti bolts new in package and was thinking of using them on my KTM (They are the same size/diameter) Just wasn't sure about using something like Ti on something like a sprocket. Thoughts?
By my calculations, Ti sprocket bolts will save you about 50g. That's nothing compared to the hundreds of grams that running a light weight tire and tube setup will save you. But if you're replacing them anyway... I can't speak to durability at all.

What's the recent status on the Think seat foam company? Is it up and running well yet? Or does it still take months to get an order through?
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 3/20/2017 9:12pm
3/20/2017 9:12pm
I have the Ti sprocket bolts on my CRF450.. working fine, but you don't save a lot of weight for the expense with Ti bolts and axles. Least cost effective mod in my experience, but looks trick Wink if you want to spend the $3k and go all the way you might save a couple of pounds.

The seat foam is cost effective, but nothing is as comfy as the stock foam and that will make you go faster on a longer moto IMHO. I like the GUTS foam over the stiffer THINK foam.. I have both.
macz400
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macz400 3/20/2017 10:15pm
3/20/2017 10:15pm
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
I have the Ti sprocket bolts on my CRF450.. working fine, but you don't save a lot of weight for the expense with Ti bolts and...
I have the Ti sprocket bolts on my CRF450.. working fine, but you don't save a lot of weight for the expense with Ti bolts and axles. Least cost effective mod in my experience, but looks trick Wink if you want to spend the $3k and go all the way you might save a couple of pounds.

The seat foam is cost effective, but nothing is as comfy as the stock foam and that will make you go faster on a longer moto IMHO. I like the GUTS foam over the stiffer THINK foam.. I have both.
So should i run the Ti sprocket bolts that I already have and put some loctite on them and be good to go? Not worried so much about the weight saving aspect as I am the durability/strength factor.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 3/21/2017 2:47am
3/21/2017 2:47am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2017 2:48am
It's not so much strength is the problem. The bolts are strong enough. Sprocket problems come about from loose bolts. I have Ti nuts on steel bolts as I happened to have some spare. I'd run them if I had them
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/21/2017 7:49am
3/21/2017 7:49am
I dont know why more companies dont use 7068 aluminum. Strength and flex of steel, weight savings of Ti. 2011 makes great bolts, cant anodize it very well, but its cheaper than 7075 and close to the same strength. The lead content prevents it from anodizing well, but that also gives it great strength. 7068 has a high nickel and chromium content, that is what i would use in place of steel or Ti.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 3/21/2017 1:37pm
3/21/2017 1:37pm
There's are market there then. Start doing kits for popular bikes
MX678
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MX678 3/21/2017 6:14pm
3/21/2017 6:14pm
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
People love to use that line, but what if you are already thin? I think it is cheaper to buy a 2 stroke if you ask...
People love to use that line, but what if you are already thin? I think it is cheaper to buy a 2 stroke if you ask me?

I dont understand how titanium "looks wicled" either. A titanium bolt is hardly noticable.. the silver just has a tiny bit different sheen. I have titanium all over the bike now and I dont notice much difference in looks. It is probably the most money I have wasted on a bike ever,
Ti looks way better than the stock KTM hardware. Yuck!

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