Transworld video on Air Shock

TallonT911
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TallonT911
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2014 11:59am
http://motocross.transworld.net/1000157503/news/mysterious-air-shock/

The mechanics and IT9 still couldn't say too much about it but it was cool to get a little more info! It's not totally top secret now haha

(ps: I'm a noob and don't know how to embed the link)

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ocscottie
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ocscottie 1/23/2014 3:13pm
1/23/2014 3:13pm
Fixed, cool stuff, Nasty's line about a bra on a girl was hilarious.
neverwasfastenuf 1/23/2014 4:16pm
1/23/2014 4:16pm
ocscottie wrote:
Fixed, cool stuff, Nasty's line about a bra on a girl was hilarious.
Can't let that happen.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Allracing
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Allracing 1/23/2014 5:45pm
1/23/2014 5:45pm
The bra line was hilarious!!
Brent
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Brent 1/23/2014 11:27pm
1/23/2014 11:27pm
It's KTM's equivalent of the Manhattan project - Top secret! It's a shock, not a missile

Guys from Showa are probably laughing their asses off at all the secrecy.

The Shop

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Robgvx
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Robgvx 1/24/2014 2:21am
1/24/2014 2:21am
Brent wrote:
It's KTM's equivalent of the Manhattan project - Top secret! It's a shock, not a missile Guys from Showa are probably laughing their asses off at...
It's KTM's equivalent of the Manhattan project - Top secret! It's a shock, not a missile

Guys from Showa are probably laughing their asses off at all the secrecy.
As, no doubt, are the guys from Fox
Highsider
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Highsider 1/24/2014 6:07am
1/24/2014 6:07am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2014 6:08am
I am SHOCKED...
that they aren't using No2 (nitrogen).
We used nitrogen back in 1976 on the Yamaha air forks and mono shock unit diaphragms.
TX24
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TX24 1/24/2014 6:14am
1/24/2014 6:14am
Wow, two pounds lighter. I wonder if it will be on the 15s.
HOPSTOOPID
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HOPSTOOPID 1/24/2014 6:17am
1/24/2014 6:17am
Brent wrote:
It's KTM's equivalent of the Manhattan project - Top secret! It's a shock, not a missile Guys from Showa are probably laughing their asses off at...
It's KTM's equivalent of the Manhattan project - Top secret! It's a shock, not a missile

Guys from Showa are probably laughing their asses off at all the secrecy.
Robgvx wrote:
As, no doubt, are the guys from Fox
While the KTM / WP guys are also laughing their asses off...

all the way to the bank.
MXBREWSKI
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MXBREWSKI 1/24/2014 6:23am
1/24/2014 6:23am
Highsider wrote:
I am SHOCKED...
that they aren't using No2 (nitrogen).
We used nitrogen back in 1976 on the Yamaha air forks and mono shock unit diaphragms.
I am surprised too, but they had said last year that the hidden hardware is a pressure equalization system that adjusts for any pressure build up and keeps it at the set pressure. Will be interesting to see the complete unit.
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 1/24/2014 9:07am
1/24/2014 9:07am
Hmm interesting.. Thanks for posting..
layinbody31
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layinbody31 1/24/2014 10:28am
1/24/2014 10:28am
So how soon will it be before we see riders having the ability to adjust the air suspension while riding/racing, like what I'm able to do with the air suspension on my trucks...
layinbody31
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layinbody31 1/24/2014 10:33am
1/24/2014 10:33am
Soft spring rate & low ride height for the starts & corners/straightaways, stiff spring rate & high ride height for jumps & whoops.

Maybe they'll even get skilled enough where they can 'pop' the suspension on the face of the jump and clear longer gaps easier


Of course adding adjustability to a system like that would mean needing to re-supply the air to the shock (and possibly forks) during the race which would mean they'd need some kind of air tank on the bike, and depending on it's capacity they would also need an on-board compressor to replenish it. Seems like KTM's having a battery already would be advantageous...
Knapton
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Knapton 1/24/2014 11:26am
1/24/2014 11:26am
Mountain bikes have been using air suspension for years and it seems to be working. I dont understand what all the hooplah is about in the moto world
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MOTO120 1/24/2014 11:35am
1/24/2014 11:35am
I personally think it's pretty cool seeing a "top secret" type of thing in moto....keeps guys like us guessing. Can you imagine if VitalMX existed back in the "full works bikes" days......this place would be on overload all the time!
newmann
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newmann 1/24/2014 11:41am
1/24/2014 11:41am
TX24 wrote:
Wow, two pounds lighter. I wonder if it will be on the 15s.
Other teams took two pounds off just by going with a Ti shock spring. You'd think an air shock would offer a weight savings. Jobe's air fork conversion and air shock took about ten pounds off the KTM over a decade ago. Wonder what all kinds of electromagnetic top secret hardware they are hiding.....Laughing
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Highsider 1/24/2014 11:51am
1/24/2014 11:51am
Highsider wrote:
I am SHOCKED...
that they aren't using No2 (nitrogen).
We used nitrogen back in 1976 on the Yamaha air forks and mono shock unit diaphragms.
MXBREWSKI wrote:
I am surprised too, but they had said last year that the hidden hardware is a pressure equalization system that adjusts for any pressure build up...
I am surprised too, but they had said last year that the hidden hardware is a pressure equalization system that adjusts for any pressure build up and keeps it at the set pressure. Will be interesting to see the complete unit.
I did not hear about the compensating hardware.
Thanks for telling me.
just James
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just James 1/24/2014 1:31pm
1/24/2014 1:31pm
layinbody31 wrote:
Soft spring rate & low ride height for the starts & corners/straightaways, stiff spring rate & high ride height for jumps & whoops. Maybe they'll even...
Soft spring rate & low ride height for the starts & corners/straightaways, stiff spring rate & high ride height for jumps & whoops.

Maybe they'll even get skilled enough where they can 'pop' the suspension on the face of the jump and clear longer gaps easier


Of course adding adjustability to a system like that would mean needing to re-supply the air to the shock (and possibly forks) during the race which would mean they'd need some kind of air tank on the bike, and depending on it's capacity they would also need an on-board compressor to replenish it. Seems like KTM's having a battery already would be advantageous...
No reason the suspension couldn't be used as a compressor.
layinbody31
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layinbody31 1/24/2014 2:01pm
1/24/2014 2:01pm
just James wrote:
No reason the suspension couldn't be used as a compressor.
Unfortunately that would be tough to make work. If you try to release the high pressure air into a tank or something when the suspension compresses you would then lose all your suspension, defeating the purpose. You need the air pressure to act as a spring when hitting bumps, and if you wanted to use the up/down motion to compress air then you wouldn't have the ability to function as a spring.

The only way I could see it working was if you used the Kayaba PSF's and made one fork leg a compressor and the other leg the spring. That way the compressor fork could draw new air in through a one-way valve every time it extended and would compress and release the air to an air tank when it got pressurized by hitting bumps. The spring fork would then have access to the higher pressure in the tank to draw from. So essentially you'd have SFF's but both would have an air chamber and valving, although only one of the forks would suspend the bike while the other compressed the air

Pit Row

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OCRacing
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OCRacing 1/24/2014 2:06pm
1/24/2014 2:06pm
I'm sure they would be using something similar to the Fox DRCV shocks on Trek full suspension bikes, a main air chamber for nomal/med sized hits and a second, larger chamber for big hits and really square edged stuff. They could do remote compression adjustment similar to the CTD settings as well, would be sick to see that on a bike for Nationals where the sections of a track vary so much.
Brent
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Brent 1/24/2014 4:57pm
1/24/2014 4:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2014 4:58pm
I'd like to show you a pic of my 1976 Yamaha YZ 125X Air forks, but they are top secret....

Whats old is new again.
Mx Hazzard 1/24/2014 5:19pm
1/24/2014 5:19pm
Highsider wrote:
I am SHOCKED...
that they aren't using No2 (nitrogen).
We used nitrogen back in 1976 on the Yamaha air forks and mono shock unit diaphragms.
78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen

I think its funny people pay to get their tires nitrogen filled, they just paid for air!

I would be very surprised if it was NOT electronically controlled! But who knows they might just be steering us all in the wrong direction.
velocitygear
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velocitygear 1/24/2014 8:06pm
1/24/2014 8:06pm
Mx Hazzard wrote:
78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen I think its funny people pay to get their tires nitrogen filled, they just paid for air! I would be...
78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen

I think its funny people pay to get their tires nitrogen filled, they just paid for air!

I would be very surprised if it was NOT electronically controlled! But who knows they might just be steering us all in the wrong direction.
Nitrogen is used in applications where you do not want expansion due to heat or elevation. Ever had a shock filled?
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 1/24/2014 8:16pm
1/24/2014 8:16pm
I'd imagine that dried air would do the exact same thing. Nitrogen and Oxygen are pretty similar in terms of physical properties. Moisture will play havoc as it expands by 1000x going from liquid to gas
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Suns_PSD 1/25/2014 5:43am
1/25/2014 5:43am
velocitygear wrote:
Nitrogen is used in applications where you do not want expansion due to heat or elevation. Ever had a shock filled?
All gases expand when heated. The difference is that Nitrogen is always dry and it's pressure change is always predictable where-as air has varying amounts of H2O in it which means the RATE of air expansion can vary due to that moisture.

If you fill your tires/ shock/ whatever on a low humidity day w/ air, it's the same thing as filling with Nitrogen.
bullpen658
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bullpen658 1/25/2014 8:25am
1/25/2014 8:25am
Exciting stuff but it scares me to think what would happen if there was an air leak on the face of a big jump. At least with a spring you will still have the boing-factor to save you even if all the rebound suddenly went bye-bye. I'm sure they'll get these things (air suspenders) working great over the next 5 years.
velocitygear
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velocitygear 1/26/2014 9:50pm
1/26/2014 9:50pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
All gases expand when heated. The difference is that Nitrogen is always dry and it's pressure change is always predictable where-as air has varying amounts of...
All gases expand when heated. The difference is that Nitrogen is always dry and it's pressure change is always predictable where-as air has varying amounts of H2O in it which means the RATE of air expansion can vary due to that moisture.

If you fill your tires/ shock/ whatever on a low humidity day w/ air, it's the same thing as filling with Nitrogen.
Thanks for posting; Details I had not read before. Interesting....
tek14
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tek14 1/27/2014 9:25am
1/27/2014 9:25am
As they say sag is adjusted by air there must be 2 different air circuits. I guess one (outside) low pressure for sag adjust and "spring" (inside) with higher pressure and takes away risk getting damaged?

Tube from shock goes up to airbox and would be nice to have look there. As pressure only goes up during race could it just be preset oneway valve to keep right spring rate.
BobPA
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BobPA 1/27/2014 9:47am
1/27/2014 9:47am
Suns_PSD wrote:
All gases expand when heated. The difference is that Nitrogen is always dry and it's pressure change is always predictable where-as air has varying amounts of...
All gases expand when heated. The difference is that Nitrogen is always dry and it's pressure change is always predictable where-as air has varying amounts of H2O in it which means the RATE of air expansion can vary due to that moisture.

If you fill your tires/ shock/ whatever on a low humidity day w/ air, it's the same thing as filling with Nitrogen.
That's a good theory, but how many compressor tanks do you know that do not have built up moisture inside??
Spartacus
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Spartacus 1/27/2014 10:04am
1/27/2014 10:04am
Brent wrote:
I'd like to show you a pic of my 1976 Yamaha YZ 125X Air forks, but they are top secret....

Whats old is new again.
Thanks for letting that little secret out you moron!
wow123
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wow123 1/27/2014 10:47am
1/27/2014 10:47am
BobPA wrote:
That's a good theory, but how many compressor tanks do you know that do not have built up moisture inside??
well I drain mine and it has a good capture bowl on the outlet

so what else can be done?

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