Meeting with lawyer

brocster
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brocster 10/24/2013 6:55am
10/24/2013 6:55am
scenerio:
family participates in motocross and has health insurance
accident happens
medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they have been paying into for years has them covered.
nope, insurance isn't paying b/c someone else may be responsible and target the track looking for that needle in a haystack of neglegence
they, the insurance company, hire a lawyer and here we are....

insurance companies have us by the balls...they want the premiums of seperate policies for everything that we do!
vet323
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vet323 10/24/2013 7:01am
10/24/2013 7:01am
brocster wrote:
scenerio: family participates in motocross and has health insurance accident happens medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they...
scenerio:
family participates in motocross and has health insurance
accident happens
medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they have been paying into for years has them covered.
nope, insurance isn't paying b/c someone else may be responsible and target the track looking for that needle in a haystack of neglegence
they, the insurance company, hire a lawyer and here we are....

insurance companies have us by the balls...they want the premiums of seperate policies for everything that we do!
This happened in Canada-free health care land.
ns503
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ns503 10/24/2013 7:15am
10/24/2013 7:15am
brocster wrote:
scenerio: family participates in motocross and has health insurance accident happens medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they...
scenerio:
family participates in motocross and has health insurance
accident happens
medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they have been paying into for years has them covered.
nope, insurance isn't paying b/c someone else may be responsible and target the track looking for that needle in a haystack of neglegence
they, the insurance company, hire a lawyer and here we are....

insurance companies have us by the balls...they want the premiums of seperate policies for everything that we do!
vet323 wrote:
This happened in Canada-free health care land.
EVERYTHING health related isn't free up here. I would imagine the burden of sudden power-chair confinement, at a young age, would take its toll on anyone and any family - and there is likely a lot of related expense that you'd be hard pressed to have any insurance cover. Or would have to fight for coverage.

But insurance is a racket, everywhere.
gabrielmalinois 10/24/2013 7:23am
10/24/2013 7:23am
I would contact the attorney of the track / promoter and see what they say, although i couldn't imagine them saying anything but don't talk to them unless you are compelled by the court to give a deposition and in that situation only answer direct questions. (This is all assuming you believe the track / promoter had no culpability for the terrible outcome)

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Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 10/24/2013 7:30am
10/24/2013 7:30am
Bummer for both parties to end in such a result. I had to be a witness once in a civil lawsuit and when your on the stand only recommendation I would provide is lawyers will ask you the same question in different ways to try to get the answer they want so be aware of this and don't let them try to make you change you answers around to help there case. That was the only way I felt comfortable testifying. And avoid things like in my opinion. And if you don't understand the question, ask them to be more specific. Sometimes them being vague is a way for them to try to get you to say something. Describe what you saw and that's it. And this is not a single occurrence but part of the racing that can occur when someone decides to compete. Don't ramble on telling stories or comparing.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/24/2013 7:42am
10/24/2013 7:42am Edited Date/Time 10/24/2013 7:43am
Sounds like they have low level employees trolling to see if they can find anything that could lead to liability for the track. You could inadvertently provide that missing piece of information that they can take back to their bosses and kickstart the lawsuit. My unsolicited advice is don't talk unless properly subpoenaed.

Sucks for the guy in the chair. I hope he finds peace with his new life.
Flesh206
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Flesh206 10/24/2013 7:43am
10/24/2013 7:43am
Dude, It doesn't even matter what you say. Their just going to twist the hell out anything you say to make it work in their favor even if you think your being slick. Say nothing.
RMT
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RMT 10/24/2013 8:06am
10/24/2013 8:06am
brocster wrote:
scenerio: family participates in motocross and has health insurance accident happens medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they...
scenerio:
family participates in motocross and has health insurance
accident happens
medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they have been paying into for years has them covered.
nope, insurance isn't paying b/c someone else may be responsible and target the track looking for that needle in a haystack of neglegence
they, the insurance company, hire a lawyer and here we are....

insurance companies have us by the balls...they want the premiums of seperate policies for everything that we do!
You nailed it. There is a documentary about the lady that got burned by the coffee at McDonalds and its very interesting to watch. I think you would be surprised if you watch it.

I also agree 100000000 times that I wouldn't get involved in this in any way unless required by law. Nothing good will come from trying to help in this situation. Your heart is in the right place, but some lawyers, not all, (FTE comes to mind, and he is on his second) do not have one.
DirtRoadmx47 10/24/2013 8:07am
10/24/2013 8:07am Edited Date/Time 10/24/2013 8:09am
Insurance companies never lose, the consumer does. Most people think the money in civil cases comes from some unlimited fund that the govt provides. It comes from the hard working taxpayers. A buddy of mine had a water pipe burst causing damage to rugs, sheetrock etc. Servpro got $1500 to tear up a rug , clean and inspect it then ultimately throwing it out.(went straight to the dumpster I suspect) The contractor who the homeowner insisted on received $5000 and was there 2 weeks. The insurance agent never came out to look at the damage but a week later they came out and inspected the contractors work suspecting the homeowner and the contractor were in on a scam. 20 years of paying premiums and never filed a claim before. I suspect the ins agent was pissed cause he didn't get his cut. The homeowner should have wrapped him up in the rug. F ing parasites!!!
brocster
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brocster 10/24/2013 8:33am
10/24/2013 8:33am
brocster wrote:
scenerio: family participates in motocross and has health insurance accident happens medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they...
scenerio:
family participates in motocross and has health insurance
accident happens
medical bills pile up, family thinks they are good, their good ole insurance that they have been paying into for years has them covered.
nope, insurance isn't paying b/c someone else may be responsible and target the track looking for that needle in a haystack of neglegence
they, the insurance company, hire a lawyer and here we are....

insurance companies have us by the balls...they want the premiums of seperate policies for everything that we do!
vet323 wrote:
This happened in Canada-free health care land.
story stays the same but insert "canadian govt free health care" in place of "insurance"

oh! and btw, it's not FREE by any stretch of the imagination.
stantdm
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stantdm 10/24/2013 8:14pm
10/24/2013 8:14pm
I cannot say it as well as FTE but were I you, I would stay out of any kind of conversations with the attorneys or their employees. Your attempt to educate them on first turn incidents will lead to them using your information to make the case. Here is what I would do:

No conversations
No crusade to educate
If deposed take an attorney and listen to his advice.
If asked what time it is tell them you don't have a watch and by no means give them the history of watch making.
Nothing you say to them is going to change what they are going to do so don't say it
Don't give opinions
Answer after you pause for a minute to think about the answer
RACEGUY
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RACEGUY 10/25/2013 7:23am
10/25/2013 7:23am
Sorry all. Just got back to this now. I hope by answering some questions it will answer some of the other questions or points made here. I’ll also thank ns503 for the kind words and always valuable food for thought. Should this thing actually go ahead, my best wager would be that mediated settlement you spoke of rather than the ugliness of court.

JustMX – I’ve been through two motocross related lawsuits as a witness. I was also in the tower the day Brian house died. I was the injured party in a two year long automobile injury action, and was involved in a short criminal trial. I am in my late 50s, came up through the school of hard knocks, and assure you, I’m far from naïve. I have a kid older than the dude who contacted me. In any event, none of this would be about my opinion. It’s about what I saw. Ask the question a thousand ways, and it doesn’t change what I saw. Simple questions that don’t go too far get clean simple answers.

Gabriel – The motocross sanctioning body provides a top-notch legal team for the promoter when a lawsuit is filed. In this case, the people who contacted myself, the referee, and members of the medical team are only accumulating information. Nobody has been served any papers yet. I feel if I decline their invitation it may actually inflame the situation and give them reason to think I have something to hide. If everyone freezes them out, it might force their hand to file the suit. As for the promoter and the facility, the whole package is beyond reproach. Absolutely nothing I could say could even be twisted to call any of that into question

Grape – I agree with your original assessment. I believe it’s a feeling-out process, and a half-hearted one at that. I’d rather they got discouraged at this point, cashed in their chips, and moved on another game.

stantdm – Standing out from everything you said, in bright neon, is “Don’t give opinions.” As I said, It’s not about what I think or what I thought. It’s only about what I saw. I’m sure they would take my opinions with a grain of salt anyway, if I told them that this was, by far and away, the safest circuit on the series schedule, and the best paramedic crew in the region. They’d think I was making shit up when it’s simply a fact.

If I was the only one they had reached out to, I would make myself very hard to contact. If I had something to hide, it would be the same. In this case, they’ve already spoken to the referee, the promoter, and the paramedics. At best, anything I could add would be corroborative, and there is certainly nothing to “dig up”, at least not from the organizational side.

FTE – Thank you for turning on a few lights for me. It can be a curse to be too trusting and a little too “glass half full” sometimes. Sometimes you need someone to sow the right seed or give you a little slap, or simply make sure you’ve looked at things from all the angles.

Thanks all the input, guys.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 10/25/2013 7:51am
10/25/2013 7:51am
RACEGUY wrote:
Sorry all. Just got back to this now. I hope by answering some questions it will answer some of the other questions or points made here...
Sorry all. Just got back to this now. I hope by answering some questions it will answer some of the other questions or points made here. I’ll also thank ns503 for the kind words and always valuable food for thought. Should this thing actually go ahead, my best wager would be that mediated settlement you spoke of rather than the ugliness of court.

JustMX – I’ve been through two motocross related lawsuits as a witness. I was also in the tower the day Brian house died. I was the injured party in a two year long automobile injury action, and was involved in a short criminal trial. I am in my late 50s, came up through the school of hard knocks, and assure you, I’m far from naïve. I have a kid older than the dude who contacted me. In any event, none of this would be about my opinion. It’s about what I saw. Ask the question a thousand ways, and it doesn’t change what I saw. Simple questions that don’t go too far get clean simple answers.

Gabriel – The motocross sanctioning body provides a top-notch legal team for the promoter when a lawsuit is filed. In this case, the people who contacted myself, the referee, and members of the medical team are only accumulating information. Nobody has been served any papers yet. I feel if I decline their invitation it may actually inflame the situation and give them reason to think I have something to hide. If everyone freezes them out, it might force their hand to file the suit. As for the promoter and the facility, the whole package is beyond reproach. Absolutely nothing I could say could even be twisted to call any of that into question

Grape – I agree with your original assessment. I believe it’s a feeling-out process, and a half-hearted one at that. I’d rather they got discouraged at this point, cashed in their chips, and moved on another game.

stantdm – Standing out from everything you said, in bright neon, is “Don’t give opinions.” As I said, It’s not about what I think or what I thought. It’s only about what I saw. I’m sure they would take my opinions with a grain of salt anyway, if I told them that this was, by far and away, the safest circuit on the series schedule, and the best paramedic crew in the region. They’d think I was making shit up when it’s simply a fact.

If I was the only one they had reached out to, I would make myself very hard to contact. If I had something to hide, it would be the same. In this case, they’ve already spoken to the referee, the promoter, and the paramedics. At best, anything I could add would be corroborative, and there is certainly nothing to “dig up”, at least not from the organizational side.

FTE – Thank you for turning on a few lights for me. It can be a curse to be too trusting and a little too “glass half full” sometimes. Sometimes you need someone to sow the right seed or give you a little slap, or simply make sure you’ve looked at things from all the angles.

Thanks all the input, guys.
Have you talked to the track owner or the party that would be the defendant to see how they'd like you to proceed?
RACEGUY
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RACEGUY 10/25/2013 8:32am
10/25/2013 8:32am
IWreckALot wrote:
Have you talked to the track owner or the party that would be the defendant to see how they'd like you to proceed?
10-4. For the time being, there's no reason not to co-operate. This has been bubbling away for a couple of years already.
Drfletcher
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Drfletcher 10/25/2013 8:47am
10/25/2013 8:47am
Attorneys are never your friend, they will use every piece of info you give them even with the right intentions to bringing damages against the track. It sucks for the kid but that's a risk you take when racing.
Socket946
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Socket946 10/25/2013 9:42am
10/25/2013 9:42am
Drfletcher wrote:
Attorneys are never your friend, they will use every piece of info you give them even with the right intentions to bringing damages against the track...
Attorneys are never your friend, they will use every piece of info you give them even with the right intentions to bringing damages against the track. It sucks for the kid but that's a risk you take when racing.
This same goes for cops.

Bottom line; don't ever talk unless there's a court order saying you have to.
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 10/25/2013 12:41pm
10/25/2013 12:41pm
Socket946 wrote:
This same goes for cops.

Bottom line; don't ever talk unless there's a court order saying you have to.
Exactly right.

Just refuse to say anything at all, unless compelled to by law.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 10/25/2013 1:01pm
10/25/2013 1:01pm
Dude shoulda got the holeshot.

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dkg
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dkg 10/25/2013 1:31pm
10/25/2013 1:31pm
RACEGUY wrote:
Thanks, TopEnd. Really appreciate your input. Maybe my subject line and original post were poorly stated. Both my contacts to date are law clerks (articling). I...
Thanks, TopEnd. Really appreciate your input. Maybe my subject line and original post were poorly stated. Both my contacts to date are law clerks (articling). I have not been contacted by an actual lawyer from the firm.

I know exactly what you're saying. Maybe the video thing was just a dumb idea. I just thought if the person asking the questions can't even conceptualize motocross starts, they will have a hard time understanding my responses to their questions. I thought it might help reduce misperceptions and misunderstandings.

Maybe it's best to just let 'em figure it out for themselves.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
The clerks are doing the low level initial stuff. I'm not arguing with what you're trying do, but if they are worth their salt they are...
The clerks are doing the low level initial stuff. I'm not arguing with what you're trying do, but if they are worth their salt they are not going to be looking for a sense of the merits. Theyre looking to bolster a case. Just my opinion from watching the plaintiffs bar. A slew of first turn videos may just look like a stream of crowded salmon to a bear. mPlaintiffs lawyers tend to look for a niche they can work. Good luck!
The advise that you have received from FTE in his posts is very good advice. Frankly, you are being interviewed as a percipient witness and they will probably be focusing on your observations, not looking to you to form an opinion about the events. I think your last sentence "Maybe it's best to just let 'em figure it out for themselves" is the best. You could even take the position that you don't want to be bothered until the case proceeds to a deposition where both parties can ask you questions about your observations. It is a sad thing the kid was injured. Nonetheless, if you want to be seen as an independent credible witness, it is probably best that you don't advocate on behalf of one side or the other.
Parris
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Parris 10/25/2013 4:05pm
10/25/2013 4:05pm
Around 1975 I was made to testify as a witness to bad auto accident. I constantly had to remind both parties involved that my testimony would be solely based on the statement I had already given to a state trooper at the scene of the accident. During the trial it was obvious that some of the witnesses forgot to show up for the rehearsal before the big show started. Innocent people in jail? vs criminals walking the streets? Like said here before. If your not made to participate, you do not want to be any part of the system . I ride a motorcycle. You can trust me on this.
CaryPT
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CaryPT 10/28/2013 9:40am
10/28/2013 9:40am
lostboy819 wrote:
You are being played big time ! You may think what you have to say or videos you show, will help the cause but they are...
You are being played big time ! You may think what you have to say or videos you show, will help the cause but they are setting you up and it will make them look good. Anyone remember what they did to Super Hunky on national TV back in the 80s ? Tell them to piss off !! and don't show them anything or even talk to them because they don't want your "expertise" they want to manipulate everything you say and by the time you " interpret" them and you realize they are using you it will be too late. You are out of your league on this so don't say or do anything because then YOU will be part of the problem even if you meant well,and you will be considered someone who helped track suing scum and despised by the rest of the moto world.
what did who do to Super Hunky on national TV back in the 80's???

caryPT
lostboy819 10/28/2013 12:47pm
10/28/2013 12:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2013 12:49pm
CaryPT wrote:
what did who do to Super Hunky on national TV back in the 80's???

caryPT
Leslie Stahl a reporter on one of the news shows, I think it might have been Dateline or 60 minutes, went to then Dirt Bike magazine to interview Super Hunky about off road motorcycle racing and riding. Super Hunky then told her about motorcycle safety and how riders were not like they are portrayed on TV and they are normal every day people with jobs and family's kind of like a 15 minute version of "On any Sunday" . When the interview was show on national TV it turns out that Leslie Stahl was doing a hatchet job on off road motorcycling and turned around everything Rick had said and made off road riders look like the Hell's Angles and we were destroying the environment. It made Super Hunky and off dirt bike riding look really bad.

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