Honda on the Decline

X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/16/2013 9:39pm
3/16/2013 9:39pm
Im also considering the Husky, I really hope they finally come out with a new 250 CR. Otherwise I heard of a 165 kit for the 125 that looks very interesting.
Lone Wolf
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Lone Wolf 3/16/2013 9:40pm
3/16/2013 9:40pm
X-RACER wrote:
And the 2013 YZ250 is on E-bay new for $6695 with no improvements for years and the newly redesigned CRF 450 is being sold at a...
And the 2013 YZ250 is on E-bay new for $6695 with no improvements for years and the newly redesigned CRF 450 is being sold at a loss @ $7498. Why is that?
I went to the local Yamaha dealer and asked to see a YZ 250 2T and was told there are none available, but then they tried to sell me a left over 4S, as if...
So I was right! This thread was just a front for you to push your two stroke agenda.
X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/16/2013 9:44pm
3/16/2013 9:44pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2013 11:28pm
LMAO Perhaps....I just watched the SX and noticed how bad Honda has been doing in the open class over the last few years and the noise of those 4 strokes (sound like a Harley running on 1 cylinder) annoyed me. I hope to inspire Honda to please make a new CR 250.
JB 19
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JB 19 3/16/2013 9:46pm
3/16/2013 9:46pm
This thread made me lol.

The Shop

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fullfloater 3/16/2013 10:33pm
3/16/2013 10:33pm
Over half of the bikes in the 250F main are Hondas. Just sayin.
Bigoldbeef 3/16/2013 10:36pm
3/16/2013 10:36pm
X-RACER wrote:
And the 2013 YZ250 is on E-bay new for $6695 with no improvements for years and the newly redesigned CRF 450 is being sold at a...
And the 2013 YZ250 is on E-bay new for $6695 with no improvements for years and the newly redesigned CRF 450 is being sold at a loss @ $7498. Why is that?
I went to the local Yamaha dealer and asked to see a YZ 250 2T and was told there are none available, but then they tried to sell me a left over 4S, as if...
I don't think 7498 would be a loss...
Choppy
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Choppy 3/16/2013 10:38pm
3/16/2013 10:38pm
The dumb hurts.
AS64
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AS64 3/16/2013 10:44pm
3/16/2013 10:44pm
fullfloater wrote:
Over half of the bikes in the 250F main are Hondas. Just sayin.
That obviously means that they are the best
Choppy
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Choppy 3/16/2013 10:46pm
3/16/2013 10:46pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2013 10:48pm
fullfloater wrote:
Over half of the bikes in the 250F main are Hondas. Just sayin.
AS64 wrote:
That obviously means that they are the best
How does one define best? Clearly the OP goes by sound because he goes slow enough to worry about it, but it seems everyone has a different idea.
TerryK
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TerryK 3/16/2013 10:53pm
3/16/2013 10:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2013 10:59pm
It's cyclical. Their turn will come again.
pdub187
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pdub187 3/16/2013 10:55pm
3/16/2013 10:55pm
Have a look at the money that Honda pours into Motogp. They have the most bikes on the grid. They were also the only manufacturer to put their hands up and put in a bid to supply engines for the Moto2 class. It's not as if MM Honda is a small outfit either.

I don't think it's a matter of Honda losing interest in motorcycle racing, you just can't win everything all the time.
Choppy
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Choppy 3/16/2013 10:59pm
3/16/2013 10:59pm
pdub187 wrote:
Have a look at the money that Honda pours into Motogp. They have the most bikes on the grid. They were also the only manufacturer to...
Have a look at the money that Honda pours into Motogp. They have the most bikes on the grid. They were also the only manufacturer to put their hands up and put in a bid to supply engines for the Moto2 class. It's not as if MM Honda is a small outfit either.

I don't think it's a matter of Honda losing interest in motorcycle racing, you just can't win everything all the time.
ID further that and say it takes time to develop a new bike and get things right.

Dungey even said they had rear shock problems all last year on the new KTM and that seemed like everything went perfect. Clearly it wasn't that way. It took Honda a couple years to get things right with the last model and I expect it will be the same for this one.
AS64
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AS64 3/16/2013 11:00pm
3/16/2013 11:00pm
Choppy wrote:
How does one define best? Clearly the OP goes by sound because he goes slow enough to worry about it, but it seems everyone has a...
How does one define best? Clearly the OP goes by sound because he goes slow enough to worry about it, but it seems everyone has a different idea.
I was being sarcastic but my point is that all of these bikes are good. The way I look at a bike is in this order - Reliability, handling, suspension, motor.
X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/16/2013 11:08pm
3/16/2013 11:08pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2013 5:44pm
fullfloater wrote:
Over half of the bikes in the 250F main are Hondas. Just sayin.
AS64 wrote:
That obviously means that they are the best
Ok so 10 out of twenty bikes are honda's what should be there odds of winning. How many KTM's Hmmmm. Ok so anyway, I was going to tease you'll and say see they have to give them away but this is turning into an anti 4S anti Honda thread.Im sorry,Its ST patricks day.Good night.
fullfloater 3/16/2013 11:18pm
3/16/2013 11:18pm
X-RACER wrote:
Ok so 10 out of twenty bikes are honda's what should be there odds of winning. How many KTM's Hmmmm. Ok so anyway, I was going...
Ok so 10 out of twenty bikes are honda's what should be there odds of winning. How many KTM's Hmmmm. Ok so anyway, I was going to tease you'll and say see they have to give them away but this is turning into an anti 4S anti Honda thread.Im sorry,Its ST patricks day.Good night.
Actually most are privateers so they had some level of choice and they chose the Honda.
bd
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bd 3/16/2013 11:51pm
3/16/2013 11:51pm
The 2013 Honda 450F gave me a woody. First 4 to do so....Woohoo
The Rock
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The Rock 3/17/2013 1:35am
3/17/2013 1:35am
AS64 wrote:
It would be nice to see Yamaha bring back a proper Factory Team. I would also love to see them run the white/red/gold again. I think...
It would be nice to see Yamaha bring back a proper Factory Team. I would also love to see them run the white/red/gold again. I think Yamaha's were meant to be white.
IMHO you can't have a more proper Factory Team than JGR.

Dean Baker Jeremy Albrecht have been around the blocks a few times plus the technology JGR has back at the shop is second to none. Their time is coming.........
fullfloater 3/17/2013 1:39am
3/17/2013 1:39am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2013 1:41am
The Rock wrote:
IMHO you can't have a more proper Factory Team than JGR. Dean Baker Jeremy Albrecht have been around the blocks a few times plus the technology...
IMHO you can't have a more proper Factory Team than JGR.

Dean Baker Jeremy Albrecht have been around the blocks a few times plus the technology JGR has back at the shop is second to none. Their time is coming.........
Pure speculation of course but if JGR went to Suzuki when they signed Stewart (as was rumored at the time), do you think they would be sitting on a couple of championships with Stewart and Millsaps right now instead of losing both riders?

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davis224
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davis224 3/17/2013 5:49am
3/17/2013 5:49am
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda makes damn good bikes, even if none of them are 2 strokes.
fader418
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fader418 3/17/2013 6:40am
3/17/2013 6:40am
GHR wrote:
Unfortunately all I can say at this time is "I heard it from a good friend" I am far enough removed from this person to not...
Unfortunately all I can say at this time is "I heard it from a good friend" I am far enough removed from this person to not get them in trouble so I can post this, at same time I can't say how I know either. Its still very speculative if something really happens between them, only they know obviously..... but it is a FACT he was at Yamaha Corp just a couple weeks ago so I ask why?...

I also know a tiny bit about how they think over there being in a few focus groups for Yam bike lauches in the past...and this 2014 bike launch needs to be big for them for a variety of reasons.

Anyway, normally I HATE reading someone else say vague statements like they know something then not elaborating like a doosh... Im not that guy. Just telling you I do know he was there and if I am a betting man, knowing hes a sharp biz guy too he needs to put leverage pressure on Honda vs Yamaha for whom ever is gonna chip in the most cashola or support for his team moving forward. The icing on the cake is --what if the new 2014 Yam is bad ass?

Who knows...Chad didnt start his team with the dream of it being a money pit, that is common knowledge.... Hope that helps clarify why I said that...

There is also a chance Im making all this up. Wait, no there is no chance... nevermind. Tongue
Now that is FUNNY! Even if he WAS at Yamaha, he must have signed a contract! First of all Chad is retiring at the end of the year. Chad has complained to much about Honda this year, I doubt they would re sign him. The ONLY bike Chad would race next year would be a Suzuki, but he's not racing!
RedRacer
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RedRacer 3/17/2013 7:12am
3/17/2013 7:12am
I own a CRF250 and really like it, but even I think Hondas design philosophy is messed up, they seem to focus on pointless gimmicks instead of spending r&d money on things that will make a better race bike. Look at the twin exhausts and wrap around header on the 450, makes the bike heavier, more prone to damage, uglier and has a minimal effect on weight distribution.
newmann
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newmann 3/17/2013 7:19am
3/17/2013 7:19am
RedRacer wrote:
I own a CRF250 and really like it, but even I think Hondas design philosophy is messed up, they seem to focus on pointless gimmicks instead...
I own a CRF250 and really like it, but even I think Hondas design philosophy is messed up, they seem to focus on pointless gimmicks instead of spending r&d money on things that will make a better race bike. Look at the twin exhausts and wrap around header on the 450, makes the bike heavier, more prone to damage, uglier and has a minimal effect on weight distribution.
Hey now, Honda dropped two pounds off the front with the air forks to help redistribute the additional four pounds they added to the rear with the dual exhaust.....Laughing
JB 19
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JB 19 3/17/2013 7:30am
3/17/2013 7:30am
davis224 wrote:
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda...
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda makes damn good bikes, even if none of them are 2 strokes.
Finally a trace of intelligent life...........................
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 3/17/2013 7:44am
3/17/2013 7:44am
davis224 wrote:
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda...
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda makes damn good bikes, even if none of them are 2 strokes.
JB 19 wrote:
Finally a trace of intelligent life...........................
Yup. Is and always has been about the rider. If RV was on a Honda this thread wouldn't exist.
NP301
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NP301 3/17/2013 8:12am
3/17/2013 8:12am
The Rock wrote:
IMHO you can't have a more proper Factory Team than JGR. Dean Baker Jeremy Albrecht have been around the blocks a few times plus the technology...
IMHO you can't have a more proper Factory Team than JGR.

Dean Baker Jeremy Albrecht have been around the blocks a few times plus the technology JGR has back at the shop is second to none. Their time is coming.........
fullfloater wrote:
Pure speculation of course but if JGR went to Suzuki when they signed Stewart (as was rumored at the time), do you think they would be...
Pure speculation of course but if JGR went to Suzuki when they signed Stewart (as was rumored at the time), do you think they would be sitting on a couple of championships with Stewart and Millsaps right now instead of losing both riders?
Yes.
BDOG
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BDOG 3/17/2013 8:53am
3/17/2013 8:53am
Honda is still the most well built bike out there IMO. My last Honda (08 CRF 450) I swore id never buy another one(and that was the one everyone loved) I didnt like the twitchy handling of that thing.
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Flatliner 3/17/2013 10:03am
3/17/2013 10:03am
EMA884mx wrote:
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the...
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the worst bike I've ever owned. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'd never consider going back to a Honda four stroke. There's no question their bikes have improved since then, but they lost a customer in me after that.
I thought the bike was good. Just hard on valves.
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davis224 3/17/2013 10:40am
3/17/2013 10:40am
RedRacer wrote:
I own a CRF250 and really like it, but even I think Hondas design philosophy is messed up, they seem to focus on pointless gimmicks instead...
I own a CRF250 and really like it, but even I think Hondas design philosophy is messed up, they seem to focus on pointless gimmicks instead of spending r&d money on things that will make a better race bike. Look at the twin exhausts and wrap around header on the 450, makes the bike heavier, more prone to damage, uglier and has a minimal effect on weight distribution.
I agree the dual exhaust is stupid, it honestly was probably the biggest reason I decided to keep my 2010 another year, the 2013 just looks ugly to me. But the wrap around header allows it to be longer which = more bottom end. Never had an issue with it denting since they made it out of steel instead of Ti, unlike my 09 Kawi header which folded up every time I fell over.
EMA884mx
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EMA884mx 3/17/2013 10:41am
3/17/2013 10:41am
EMA884mx wrote:
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the...
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the worst bike I've ever owned. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'd never consider going back to a Honda four stroke. There's no question their bikes have improved since then, but they lost a customer in me after that.
Flatliner wrote:
I thought the bike was good. Just hard on valves.
Yeah to say the least. You're right though, the feel of the bike was great. I liked the suspension and handling, but that motor was a ticking time-bomb. Shortly after I had the motor re-built, I sold it.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 3/17/2013 10:46am
3/17/2013 10:46am
davis224 wrote:
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda...
What do you think Honda should do? Tell their riders to go faster? Sometimes you've got the riders who do the winning, sometimes you don't. Honda makes damn good bikes, even if none of them are 2 strokes.
JB 19 wrote:
Finally a trace of intelligent life...........................
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Yup. Is and always has been about the rider. If RV was on a Honda this thread wouldn't exist.
Exactly, even RV on a Husquvarna (sp?) or Beta Beta will win lol

In all seriousness, people like to bag on Honda, I choose to ride them because they are realiable (like all bikes you should maintain them regulary), parts are cheaper than most, dealer support is awesome, they are oftne the best quality bikes out there no matter what genre (i.e. road, offroad, MX, etc) and you meet the nicest people on them (well the last bit might be stretching it lol)

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