I give up.......

DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
6/17/2012 8:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2012 8:51pm
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough for this group obviously. I think I know what we need to do now based on all of the criticism here.

You are saying to do which of these?

A.) Cut the races down to one moto per class so the four-plus hours shows fit the two-hour window that most networks have on a sport this size? Soccer plays two 45-minute halves and is over in about two hours. So is basketball. Football is less than three now. Don't watch NASCAR so I have no idea how long they last... And how many classes do they show at once?

B.) Cut the races down to one class so you can see both "halves" on one U.S. network, albeit with no intermission to rest for the riders or work on their bikes? Or cut the motos down to 20 minutes, though when I once mentioned dropping the "plus two laps" Rupert and Jody and friends wanted to burn me at the stake. Or at least what was left of me of me after we moved the races to Saturday.

C.) Forget live TV and make it easier for you guys by cutting a five-hour day down to a manageable two-hour edit and show it a few days later, albeit with less series and team and rider sponsors because no one will take us seriously without live TV? That would certainly cost less for MX Sports and Alli but the teams would suffer a steep loss in sponsors...

D.) Go PPV online, which means losing the live network package due to their current restrictions, and just charge the hardcore fans who would pay but limit our growth by getting off free TV? (Not sure how that is working for the GPs or Canadian races here, but worth a look. It does work for the NFL but they are slightly bigger.)

E.) Quit showing the first motos all together because splitting it on multiple networks is too complicated and bothersome in this day or media overload?

F.) Quit worrying about mainstream TV all together and go commercial-free Internet, which means "no commercials" to pay for the production so we just augment it by cutting corners elsewhere, like the purse?

G.) Just keep moving forward through this rough stuff and keep growing the audience like we are and proving to the networks that we deserve live all day and that our sport can and will work on TV because it's the coolest and most exciting Motorsport in the world, and the best athletes deserve a national TV audience? And work even harder next year to get better coverage in England, Canada and Australia, as well as the all-live-here goal that everyone seemed to share a short time ago?

Seriously. For every great idea to make this easier to watch, there are practical challenges and real costs involved. Right now MX Sports and All Sports feel good about outdoor motocross here in America, as it seems to be going in the right direction. But maybe I am too close to the actual situation to see the easy way forward...Anyone who has a real plan, with real experience with the U.S networks, please feel free to tell me what cuts we can make to get this down to one channel so we can be as big and live as we were in 2008 and before... Because I am not giving up.

DC@mxsports.com
KAB
Posts
65
Joined
10/5/2010
Location
Bonsall, CA, USA
6/17/2012 9:01pm
Davey, don't change a thing and keep doing what you are doing. I am a "season ticket" holder fan. I go to every Socal supercross round, one east coast round, and Vegas. I go to Hangtown, pala/lake Elsinore, and one other National each year. My wife and family love the changes you've made and the incredible TV coverage. Keep up the great job!
PTECH
Posts
469
Joined
11/28/2011
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
6/17/2012 9:06pm
I don't mind switching channels and I certainly don't want any of the show to be cut 2 30 min +2 motos and two classes . An ideal setup for me would be live first motos on one channel (maybe fuel or NBC sports) then live second motos on another channel like Speed HD. That would be perfect for me. The real deal is no channel is gonna devote the air time to show both motos live. Its never gonna happen. The superbowl barely gets that much airtime..
disbanded
Posts
6957
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Evergreen, CO, USA
6/17/2012 9:22pm
Thank you Davey. I get to watch the motos live just by switching the channel a few times. If that is enough to make you give up on the sport then you were never a real fan to begIn with.

The Shop

brogge
Posts
76
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Poway, CA, USA
6/17/2012 9:31pm
DC wrote:
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough...
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough for this group obviously. I think I know what we need to do now based on all of the criticism here.

You are saying to do which of these?

A.) Cut the races down to one moto per class so the four-plus hours shows fit the two-hour window that most networks have on a sport this size? Soccer plays two 45-minute halves and is over in about two hours. So is basketball. Football is less than three now. Don't watch NASCAR so I have no idea how long they last... And how many classes do they show at once?

B.) Cut the races down to one class so you can see both "halves" on one U.S. network, albeit with no intermission to rest for the riders or work on their bikes? Or cut the motos down to 20 minutes, though when I once mentioned dropping the "plus two laps" Rupert and Jody and friends wanted to burn me at the stake. Or at least what was left of me of me after we moved the races to Saturday.

C.) Forget live TV and make it easier for you guys by cutting a five-hour day down to a manageable two-hour edit and show it a few days later, albeit with less series and team and rider sponsors because no one will take us seriously without live TV? That would certainly cost less for MX Sports and Alli but the teams would suffer a steep loss in sponsors...

D.) Go PPV online, which means losing the live network package due to their current restrictions, and just charge the hardcore fans who would pay but limit our growth by getting off free TV? (Not sure how that is working for the GPs or Canadian races here, but worth a look. It does work for the NFL but they are slightly bigger.)

E.) Quit showing the first motos all together because splitting it on multiple networks is too complicated and bothersome in this day or media overload?

F.) Quit worrying about mainstream TV all together and go commercial-free Internet, which means "no commercials" to pay for the production so we just augment it by cutting corners elsewhere, like the purse?

G.) Just keep moving forward through this rough stuff and keep growing the audience like we are and proving to the networks that we deserve live all day and that our sport can and will work on TV because it's the coolest and most exciting Motorsport in the world, and the best athletes deserve a national TV audience? And work even harder next year to get better coverage in England, Canada and Australia, as well as the all-live-here goal that everyone seemed to share a short time ago?

Seriously. For every great idea to make this easier to watch, there are practical challenges and real costs involved. Right now MX Sports and All Sports feel good about outdoor motocross here in America, as it seems to be going in the right direction. But maybe I am too close to the actual situation to see the easy way forward...Anyone who has a real plan, with real experience with the U.S networks, please feel free to tell me what cuts we can make to get this down to one channel so we can be as big and live as we were in 2008 and before... Because I am not giving up.

DC@mxsports.com
My problem with it is that not only does the time change week to week,, but also which channel you can catch the motos.

For example, according to the TV sched on RacerX,
Hangtown and Freestone showed 1st motos of both 250/450 on Fuel and 2nd motos of 250/450 on NBCSN.
ThunderValley was the same, but split the 2nd motos by 7 hours.
HighPoint went back to back-to-back 2nd motos on NBCSN

But for Budds, the 2nd 250 moto was on Fuel. I missed it because I just figured it'd be right after the 450 moto on NBCSN. I'm still looking for the torrent.

So my vote for what to do is create a more consistent schedule. Otherwise you're going to miss casual fans - hell even a core fan like me is missing it.

On a positive note, I think the shows are really good, when I get a chance to watch them.
dkg
Posts
1885
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
6/17/2012 9:33pm
KAB wrote:
Davey, don't change a thing and keep doing what you are doing. I am a "season ticket" holder fan. I go to every Socal supercross round...
Davey, don't change a thing and keep doing what you are doing. I am a "season ticket" holder fan. I go to every Socal supercross round, one east coast round, and Vegas. I go to Hangtown, pala/lake Elsinore, and one other National each year. My wife and family love the changes you've made and the incredible TV coverage. Keep up the great job!
Agreed. Didn't I read someplace that a recent race gave fuel its highest ratings ever? Things are working and the sport is growing exposure through the efforts of DC, et. al.
Chili
Posts
813
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Winnipeg, CA
6/17/2012 9:42pm
DC wrote:
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough...
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough for this group obviously. I think I know what we need to do now based on all of the criticism here.

You are saying to do which of these?

A.) Cut the races down to one moto per class so the four-plus hours shows fit the two-hour window that most networks have on a sport this size? Soccer plays two 45-minute halves and is over in about two hours. So is basketball. Football is less than three now. Don't watch NASCAR so I have no idea how long they last... And how many classes do they show at once?

B.) Cut the races down to one class so you can see both "halves" on one U.S. network, albeit with no intermission to rest for the riders or work on their bikes? Or cut the motos down to 20 minutes, though when I once mentioned dropping the "plus two laps" Rupert and Jody and friends wanted to burn me at the stake. Or at least what was left of me of me after we moved the races to Saturday.

C.) Forget live TV and make it easier for you guys by cutting a five-hour day down to a manageable two-hour edit and show it a few days later, albeit with less series and team and rider sponsors because no one will take us seriously without live TV? That would certainly cost less for MX Sports and Alli but the teams would suffer a steep loss in sponsors...

D.) Go PPV online, which means losing the live network package due to their current restrictions, and just charge the hardcore fans who would pay but limit our growth by getting off free TV? (Not sure how that is working for the GPs or Canadian races here, but worth a look. It does work for the NFL but they are slightly bigger.)

E.) Quit showing the first motos all together because splitting it on multiple networks is too complicated and bothersome in this day or media overload?

F.) Quit worrying about mainstream TV all together and go commercial-free Internet, which means "no commercials" to pay for the production so we just augment it by cutting corners elsewhere, like the purse?

G.) Just keep moving forward through this rough stuff and keep growing the audience like we are and proving to the networks that we deserve live all day and that our sport can and will work on TV because it's the coolest and most exciting Motorsport in the world, and the best athletes deserve a national TV audience? And work even harder next year to get better coverage in England, Canada and Australia, as well as the all-live-here goal that everyone seemed to share a short time ago?

Seriously. For every great idea to make this easier to watch, there are practical challenges and real costs involved. Right now MX Sports and All Sports feel good about outdoor motocross here in America, as it seems to be going in the right direction. But maybe I am too close to the actual situation to see the easy way forward...Anyone who has a real plan, with real experience with the U.S networks, please feel free to tell me what cuts we can make to get this down to one channel so we can be as big and live as we were in 2008 and before... Because I am not giving up.

DC@mxsports.com
I understand you're in a tough spot but what about an online PPV system outside of the USA, would that still violate the TV restricitons? Huge fans in Canada have one choice and that's to pirate a torrent or a crappy third world feed. Pretty sure many outside the USA would gladly pay a fee for live access similar to the GP's.
yz763
Posts
792
Joined
2/6/2009
Location
Altamonte Springs, FL, USA
6/17/2012 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2012 8:22am
teggers wrote:
I give up as well. I decided this today. Really, I give up. I am so tired of trying to get a feed each week. I...
I give up as well. I decided this today. Really, I give up. I am so tired of trying to get a feed each week. I will not expect to watch the US Motocross on the next date. (Of course I will bring up the live lap chart (I am a racer!)) I wish the best of luck to all my friends in the business.
Didn't FuelTV record their second most watched program in history with Hangtown? Even if I have the wrong race, clearly there is demand.
ns503
Posts
4608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NS Toolies, CA
6/18/2012 4:32am
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli.

I don't see how offering PPV over the net would hurt the networks that show it live on TV now. If people had a choice between watching for free live on their TV where they're at, and paying to watch live over the net, I don't see why they would chose to pay to watch on the net. This is about people not having access to the second motos because it is simply not possible for them to do so. These channels are not available to everyone no matter what they do or who their local TV providers are - period. And there is a whole world of us out here.

It would seem from here that doing PPV over the net (even if PPV was just for the second motos) would not require much more investment, would not hurt the live TV networks and their investment, and would broaden your market to world wide levels - I suggest adding Rup to your network contract negotiating team for next season.

All very frustrating to the fans of the sport - and perhaps to yourself as well.
mxmasta
Posts
1428
Joined
3/2/2010
Location
Planet Earth, DE
6/18/2012 5:31am
ns503 wrote:
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli...
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli.

I don't see how offering PPV over the net would hurt the networks that show it live on TV now. If people had a choice between watching for free live on their TV where they're at, and paying to watch live over the net, I don't see why they would chose to pay to watch on the net. This is about people not having access to the second motos because it is simply not possible for them to do so. These channels are not available to everyone no matter what they do or who their local TV providers are - period. And there is a whole world of us out here.

It would seem from here that doing PPV over the net (even if PPV was just for the second motos) would not require much more investment, would not hurt the live TV networks and their investment, and would broaden your market to world wide levels - I suggest adding Rup to your network contract negotiating team for next season.

All very frustrating to the fans of the sport - and perhaps to yourself as well.
THIS ^^ is what i would say if my English was good enough :-)

Thank you ns503, well said!
Adam43
Posts
3312
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
6/18/2012 5:38am
As a viewer, I believe the older style two-hour shows were superior in every way. The editing made for a much better overall experience - no on track action was missed, yet there was still enough time to meet sponsor obligations and such. But I think those days are gone now.

It looks like people demand coverage live, and want the races in a place they can find it.

The biggest question is whether NBC is actually paying MX Sports for the broadcast? The series deserves to make money, but if it is still forced to buy time, moving away from Speed channel seems like a questionable choice. Speed's entire Saturday lineup is paid programming. A timeslot for the whole thing could be bought for the right price.

If you want to take lessons from the NFL, NASCAR, etc., they will tell you that the key to their success was making the races accessible to their fans - having the events at the same times in the same places each week.
426Hemi
Posts
1048
Joined
4/15/2011
Location
USA
6/18/2012 6:21am
ns503 wrote:
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli...
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli.

I don't see how offering PPV over the net would hurt the networks that show it live on TV now. If people had a choice between watching for free live on their TV where they're at, and paying to watch live over the net, I don't see why they would chose to pay to watch on the net. This is about people not having access to the second motos because it is simply not possible for them to do so. These channels are not available to everyone no matter what they do or who their local TV providers are - period. And there is a whole world of us out here.

It would seem from here that doing PPV over the net (even if PPV was just for the second motos) would not require much more investment, would not hurt the live TV networks and their investment, and would broaden your market to world wide levels - I suggest adding Rup to your network contract negotiating team for next season.

All very frustrating to the fans of the sport - and perhaps to yourself as well.
Wait, Rupert X knows how to negotiate TV contracts?
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13296
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
6/18/2012 8:03am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2012 10:31am
ns503 wrote:
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli...
Everything seems set and in place now for live PPV Net coverage - it's being done for the first motos right now for free via Alli.

I don't see how offering PPV over the net would hurt the networks that show it live on TV now. If people had a choice between watching for free live on their TV where they're at, and paying to watch live over the net, I don't see why they would chose to pay to watch on the net. This is about people not having access to the second motos because it is simply not possible for them to do so. These channels are not available to everyone no matter what they do or who their local TV providers are - period. And there is a whole world of us out here.

It would seem from here that doing PPV over the net (even if PPV was just for the second motos) would not require much more investment, would not hurt the live TV networks and their investment, and would broaden your market to world wide levels - I suggest adding Rup to your network contract negotiating team for next season.

All very frustrating to the fans of the sport - and perhaps to yourself as well.
"I don't see how offering PPV over the net would hurt the networks that show it live on TV now. "

But you, DC or I don't get to decide that, the networks do. I don't think anyone has ever accused the networks of grasping how to exploit the internet, and apparently they have issues with dual mediums for live. I don't know what they are. I don't even know if they are legitimate issues or just the paralysis of people working at the networks who haven't figured this out yet.

Just like the networks, sponsors themselves get to decide which medium matters to them. We vetted the ppv internet thing here a few weeks ago with respect to the GP's, and Xavier ~ who ought to have at least some real sense of this ~ offered that the number of people getting the GP paid webcast is in the low thousands worldwide. Not low hundred thousands, or low ten thousands, but low thousands. That doesn't do a thing for teams trying to sell exposure to sponsors. Meaningful sponsors who keep the teams on the tracks are not even going to sniff at PPV. To suggest abandoning a live TV initiative for PPV is suicide.

I doubt there was a better day for exposure for US motocross than having a live race on NBC as a lead in to the US Open. That's a freaking huge leap. That matters to sponsors. You don't have a sport to watch without them. It's shame that it's not a perfect world yet, but for the most part it seems like people are working within the right priorities ~ sponsors and domestic fans first ~ to grow things as best can be done at this point.

The people who act surprised about having to buy TV time are truly clueless about how small and economically fragile this sports is. To mention this sport in the same breath as LaCrosse in terms of popularity is absurd. We are smaller than spelling bees, cheerleading, youth soccer and host of other things that millions more people and their kids are invested in.
yz763
Posts
792
Joined
2/6/2009
Location
Altamonte Springs, FL, USA
6/18/2012 8:24am
Adam43 wrote:
As a viewer, I believe the older style two-hour shows were superior in every way. The editing made for a much better overall experience - no...
As a viewer, I believe the older style two-hour shows were superior in every way. The editing made for a much better overall experience - no on track action was missed, yet there was still enough time to meet sponsor obligations and such. But I think those days are gone now.

It looks like people demand coverage live, and want the races in a place they can find it.

The biggest question is whether NBC is actually paying MX Sports for the broadcast? The series deserves to make money, but if it is still forced to buy time, moving away from Speed channel seems like a questionable choice. Speed's entire Saturday lineup is paid programming. A timeslot for the whole thing could be bought for the right price.

If you want to take lessons from the NFL, NASCAR, etc., they will tell you that the key to their success was making the races accessible to their fans - having the events at the same times in the same places each week.
Very well said.
c3011
Posts
632
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Perrysburg, OH, USA
6/18/2012 8:28am
DC wrote:
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough...
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough for this group obviously. I think I know what we need to do now based on all of the criticism here.

You are saying to do which of these?

A.) Cut the races down to one moto per class so the four-plus hours shows fit the two-hour window that most networks have on a sport this size? Soccer plays two 45-minute halves and is over in about two hours. So is basketball. Football is less than three now. Don't watch NASCAR so I have no idea how long they last... And how many classes do they show at once?

B.) Cut the races down to one class so you can see both "halves" on one U.S. network, albeit with no intermission to rest for the riders or work on their bikes? Or cut the motos down to 20 minutes, though when I once mentioned dropping the "plus two laps" Rupert and Jody and friends wanted to burn me at the stake. Or at least what was left of me of me after we moved the races to Saturday.

C.) Forget live TV and make it easier for you guys by cutting a five-hour day down to a manageable two-hour edit and show it a few days later, albeit with less series and team and rider sponsors because no one will take us seriously without live TV? That would certainly cost less for MX Sports and Alli but the teams would suffer a steep loss in sponsors...

D.) Go PPV online, which means losing the live network package due to their current restrictions, and just charge the hardcore fans who would pay but limit our growth by getting off free TV? (Not sure how that is working for the GPs or Canadian races here, but worth a look. It does work for the NFL but they are slightly bigger.)

E.) Quit showing the first motos all together because splitting it on multiple networks is too complicated and bothersome in this day or media overload?

F.) Quit worrying about mainstream TV all together and go commercial-free Internet, which means "no commercials" to pay for the production so we just augment it by cutting corners elsewhere, like the purse?

G.) Just keep moving forward through this rough stuff and keep growing the audience like we are and proving to the networks that we deserve live all day and that our sport can and will work on TV because it's the coolest and most exciting Motorsport in the world, and the best athletes deserve a national TV audience? And work even harder next year to get better coverage in England, Canada and Australia, as well as the all-live-here goal that everyone seemed to share a short time ago?

Seriously. For every great idea to make this easier to watch, there are practical challenges and real costs involved. Right now MX Sports and All Sports feel good about outdoor motocross here in America, as it seems to be going in the right direction. But maybe I am too close to the actual situation to see the easy way forward...Anyone who has a real plan, with real experience with the U.S networks, please feel free to tell me what cuts we can make to get this down to one channel so we can be as big and live as we were in 2008 and before... Because I am not giving up.

DC@mxsports.com
I prefer the C option to be honest (and if I don't have to listen to Jamie Bestwick all the better). How much live coverage is really there in all honesty? I don't have Fuel TV and my cable company says they won't get it in the near future due to lack of demand. So I am left watching MX motos pieced togeather from NBC Sports over the course of several days if they don't decide they have something better to show in the middle of the night or the work week. I suspect the majority of the ratings are generated by regular MX fans and not the skaters, bmxer's and what ever else it is that fuel shows and whatever it is that Alli brings along. How many sponsors are really going to bolt over lack of live TV coverage from Fuel TV just curious? I look at what it took the world's largest sport (soccer) to get 2 live uninterupted 45 time slots on major networks and I personally think its a bridge to far for this sport. Soccer came with advertisers with the deepest of pockets for a sport for advertising and the largest viewing audience in the world and the US tv networks still had trouble playing ball with the sport for many years. All I can suggest to increase more revenue from sponsors is to do like soccer and put a company's logo in the upper corner of the TV screen for a few minutes and move to the next sponsor.
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
6/18/2012 9:02am
I've read this entire thread and all I can say is wow, what a bunch of babies. WTF, MX is very difficult to produce for TV and 4-5 hours is a long time to expect live on a single network. I struggle some with a computer but I can work the DVR no problem. I also don't think comparing MXGP to our our outdoor coverage is fair. MXGP has many different countries to appeal to and frankly motorsports in general are a much bigger deal in most of those countries. In the end motocross is a business and things have to work financially. There is no way that pay per view could ever come close to covering the production costs. Things are getting better each year and the nature of specialized, national sports channels are evolving. Be happy!
GrapeApe
Posts
8938
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
6/18/2012 9:14am
I spent the first half of Saturday mountain biking my favorite trail, and the second half of the day hanging out with my kids. I gave no thought to motocross, and I only glanced at the TV briefly for US Open leader board updates.

Sunday, I woke up and took the family to Church and breakfast. Threw some meat on the smoker, grabbed a beer, and sat on the couch and watched 4 hours of Budd's Creek coverage. I watched that 4 hours of coverage in less than 3 hours because the magic button on the remote makes the commercials go away. The pork and yardbirds turned out perfect, washed down with a couple of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale's.

The last thing that crossed my mind when I sat down on the computer this morning was to start bitching about the TV coverage. I didn't even mind Jamie Bestwick, probably because his seemingly out-of-left-field notes and observations reminded me of the play-by-play guy in the movie "Best In Show." The current TV package may not be the best thing for pulling in new viewers, but I sure as heck enjoy the live (to me) Sunday afternoon coverage.
danman
Posts
1204
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Readstown, WI, USA
6/18/2012 9:39am
GrapeApe wrote:
I spent the first half of Saturday mountain biking my favorite trail, and the second half of the day hanging out with my kids. I gave...
I spent the first half of Saturday mountain biking my favorite trail, and the second half of the day hanging out with my kids. I gave no thought to motocross, and I only glanced at the TV briefly for US Open leader board updates.

Sunday, I woke up and took the family to Church and breakfast. Threw some meat on the smoker, grabbed a beer, and sat on the couch and watched 4 hours of Budd's Creek coverage. I watched that 4 hours of coverage in less than 3 hours because the magic button on the remote makes the commercials go away. The pork and yardbirds turned out perfect, washed down with a couple of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale's.

The last thing that crossed my mind when I sat down on the computer this morning was to start bitching about the TV coverage. I didn't even mind Jamie Bestwick, probably because his seemingly out-of-left-field notes and observations reminded me of the play-by-play guy in the movie "Best In Show." The current TV package may not be the best thing for pulling in new viewers, but I sure as heck enjoy the live (to me) Sunday afternoon coverage.
Sounds similar to my weekend.
Saturday morning, went golfing, then home to change for a wedding/reception until about 9pm. Then I went home and watched the races until midnight!
Sunday, more golfing, a nice long(16 miles)(for me) bike ride with my wife, then just hanging out with the family!

I've got way to many other things going on to spend 4 hours in the middle of the day watching TV. If you take my DVR away, then I'll bitch!
jasonv43
Posts
10286
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
6/18/2012 10:41am
While I share some of the concerns of the board. Let's stop and take a look at something real quck.

Saturday,
June 16
1 - 2 p.m. *Red Bull Signature Series: Nike Lowers Pro Trestles, Calif.
2 - 3 p.m. *AMA Motocross
3 - 4 p.m. *Live from the U.S. Open San Francisco, Calif. Bob Costas, Rich Lerner, Kelly Tilghman, Brandel Chamblee, Frank Nobilo, Steve Sands, Tim Rosaforte, Johnny Miller, Dan Hicks and Jimmy Roberts
4 - 10 p.m. *U.S. Open Championship

That is pretty bad ass to lead into something major like the US Open. Just saying. That being said, I would love nothing more then to have 4 hours of live coverage on one channel.
Rooster
Posts
4432
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edmonton, CA
6/18/2012 10:47am
DC,

From the sounds of your reply your TV package restricts you from showing a full live broadcast online whether it's ad supported or PPV. I can only surmise from that that the network must be paying for the broadcast rights.

Fair enough. That's your agreement. You need to honour it. From the looks of AlliSports wiki page, they claim to be "operators" of the AMA Motocross Nationals "with" MXSports, so maybe there's a deeper connection there than previously thought.

Nobody here has suggested any of the draconian measures you've thrown out. Nobody wants a single moto format, nor do we want to see shorter motos or a move away from live broadcasting. Shit, I even like the announcers you've got.

All we're asking for is a way to access the broadcast from outside the US. Whether it's free or paid for, we just want our MXTV.

You asked which of your options we would choose and frankly, the way you've worded the choices, you haven't really offered up any viable options. Although the last one is all we're asking for. Except, you state that "we keep moving forward" when in fact this year has been a step back for your viewers outside the US.

If you look at the responses in this thread you can see that the people experiencing the most frustration are those like myself who have become used to watching the entire event live in the past (if it was a live broadcast). I never once complained when I had to watch the first moto online and then move to the living room and watch the second motos on speed. While not ideal, it was a workable solution that still brought your product into my home and broadcast it live for the entire event for many of the races. This option is no longer available to me. It's also obvious that it's no longer available to others as well.

If I were located in the US and could access the channels you broadcast on I can assure you I'd be a happy camper. If I could still tune into the second motos either live or same day tape delayed as in the past on speed, I'd be a happy camper. The problem is I can't. I have zero complaints about your domestic broadcast, except for the fact that I cannot access it.

If AMA National Motocross is (and I believe it is) the premier professional motocross series in the world, then why has the broadcast taken a decidedly domestic only turn in the way it's being broadcast? I see the US nationals as something larger than a domesticated national championship and I can only imagine that you do as well. Yet for viewers outside the US it's no longer viewable as a live event where it has been in the past. Hence our frustration.

If your choice is to expand domestic viewership at the exclusion of the rest of the world, then that's your choice. I have said my piece and vented my frustrations and even tried to offer some possible options for contemplation. Not one of which has anything to do with changing the way you currently broadcast within the US or the way in which the sport is organized.

I also have a choice. I can choose to watch the first moto online and then try and hibernate until I can "steal" a copy of the rest of the NBCSports and FuelTV broadcasts to watch. Or I can just choose to find another way to occupy my time. Then I can get my fill of motocross on TV when the supercross season starts. After all, many of the top pros in recent years have decided to forgo the nationals altogether in favour of supercross only deals. Maybe they're onto something. It's the easier route isn't it? My attempts to find a workable solution to view your programming live in it's entirety have been fruitless. Maybe it's time to take the easier way out as well.

I hope you find a solution to this problem, because the way the broadcasts are structured now, it's forcing me into some decisions I would rather avoid. After all, most people will opt for the easy way out. Will I stay as much a fan of your series without access to a full live broadcast like in the past? Who knows? That's the risk you run. In the past I couldn't wait for the supercross series to finish and for the races to head outdoors. Four motos between two classes and a ton of broadcast time. What wasn't to love? Oddly enough, I'm now finding myself increasingly excited about the start of the supercross season. Funny how that works huh?
DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
6/18/2012 11:02am
Rooster,

I am looking into a full PPV for international viewers In 2013, it's just not as easy as just saying, "I want my PPV MXTV..." we do care deeply about the international market, as the best riders in the world all look to America for an opportunity to race, and we owe it to their fans back at home to try to broadcast there. But Canada is not an easy television landscape to navigate...

And Alli Sports is our commercial partners in the series, and they work the TV aspects. They are owned by the same company that owns NBC. We are very pleased to work with them and know that NBC Sports Network will grow quickly, especially following the Olympics this summer.

What I don't get is the people that want us to just show the races later.... Because we do show them later, like two days later, free on www.allispors.com. We just also show them live too.

As for looking ahead to SX, I am too. I am also looking forward to the rest of the nationals.

DC
MX Sports
dboivin
Posts
3176
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI, USA
6/18/2012 11:09am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2012 11:26am
DC wrote:
Rooster, I am looking into a full PPV for international viewers In 2013, it's just not as easy as just saying, "I want my PPV MXTV..."...
Rooster,

I am looking into a full PPV for international viewers In 2013, it's just not as easy as just saying, "I want my PPV MXTV..." we do care deeply about the international market, as the best riders in the world all look to America for an opportunity to race, and we owe it to their fans back at home to try to broadcast there. But Canada is not an easy television landscape to navigate...

And Alli Sports is our commercial partners in the series, and they work the TV aspects. They are owned by the same company that owns NBC. We are very pleased to work with them and know that NBC Sports Network will grow quickly, especially following the Olympics this summer.

What I don't get is the people that want us to just show the races later.... Because we do show them later, like two days later, free on www.allispors.com. We just also show them live too.

As for looking ahead to SX, I am too. I am also looking forward to the rest of the nationals.

DC
MX Sports
what would be the deterrent from doing full all out pay-per-view online...no limits. networks are already giving up 1st motos to online, why not just take the whole thing to pay per view for online and still maintain a tv contracts.

this is my only bitch to the whole thing. I have no problem with the tv package. I have a problem with not being able to get 4 moto's online. If next year you came at us with a tv schedule (live or delayed) but yet you had online pay per view for live. this would be a big win win.

face it. online is where its at, where the future will be. these cable networks are gonna be hind ass kissing in about 10 years when everyone is walking aroun dwatching tv on their tablets/phones and viewing everything sync'd thru their computer. netflix is putting a hurt to them already.
BlueThumper
Posts
409
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Jacksonville, AL, USA
6/18/2012 11:11am
DC,

Keep up the good work of promoting the Nationals. Making the annual 12 hr drive to Red Bud in a couple weeks for the best weekend in MX. With luck, I can catch Red Bud and the 2013 Southern National next year. Maybe even head up to The Ranch and watch RC play like he did at Mill Creek weekend before last.
dehner47
Posts
827
Joined
8/9/2010
Location
Mantua, NJ, USA
6/18/2012 11:22am
DC wrote:
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough...
Thanks for all of the answers and help here, gang. I thought the cast-a-wide-net approach might work, and it is for many, but not quick enough for this group obviously. I think I know what we need to do now based on all of the criticism here.

You are saying to do which of these?

A.) Cut the races down to one moto per class so the four-plus hours shows fit the two-hour window that most networks have on a sport this size? Soccer plays two 45-minute halves and is over in about two hours. So is basketball. Football is less than three now. Don't watch NASCAR so I have no idea how long they last... And how many classes do they show at once?

B.) Cut the races down to one class so you can see both "halves" on one U.S. network, albeit with no intermission to rest for the riders or work on their bikes? Or cut the motos down to 20 minutes, though when I once mentioned dropping the "plus two laps" Rupert and Jody and friends wanted to burn me at the stake. Or at least what was left of me of me after we moved the races to Saturday.

C.) Forget live TV and make it easier for you guys by cutting a five-hour day down to a manageable two-hour edit and show it a few days later, albeit with less series and team and rider sponsors because no one will take us seriously without live TV? That would certainly cost less for MX Sports and Alli but the teams would suffer a steep loss in sponsors...

D.) Go PPV online, which means losing the live network package due to their current restrictions, and just charge the hardcore fans who would pay but limit our growth by getting off free TV? (Not sure how that is working for the GPs or Canadian races here, but worth a look. It does work for the NFL but they are slightly bigger.)

E.) Quit showing the first motos all together because splitting it on multiple networks is too complicated and bothersome in this day or media overload?

F.) Quit worrying about mainstream TV all together and go commercial-free Internet, which means "no commercials" to pay for the production so we just augment it by cutting corners elsewhere, like the purse?

G.) Just keep moving forward through this rough stuff and keep growing the audience like we are and proving to the networks that we deserve live all day and that our sport can and will work on TV because it's the coolest and most exciting Motorsport in the world, and the best athletes deserve a national TV audience? And work even harder next year to get better coverage in England, Canada and Australia, as well as the all-live-here goal that everyone seemed to share a short time ago?

Seriously. For every great idea to make this easier to watch, there are practical challenges and real costs involved. Right now MX Sports and All Sports feel good about outdoor motocross here in America, as it seems to be going in the right direction. But maybe I am too close to the actual situation to see the easy way forward...Anyone who has a real plan, with real experience with the U.S networks, please feel free to tell me what cuts we can make to get this down to one channel so we can be as big and live as we were in 2008 and before... Because I am not giving up.

DC@mxsports.com
not complaining about tv coverage at all. what i do have to question is your Nascar comment. now im not fan either and do not watch roundy round racing. but how couid you not look at Nascar and try to learn from there ups and down and how they grew a hillbilly sport (as is mx) to a main stream corporate buying sport. (not saying turn mx into nascar) and to not know how long a race lasts or anything. never said you should be a fan. i just figured a major player in this sport, and the guy at the forfront of taking this sport mainstream, would be looking at all aspects of sports and to try and understand how they did it, how they still do it, and do it well. each and every week.

i feel you, DC and MXsports does a great job and hope you keep it up. just find it odd that "we" as a sport arent learning from others and do what they did/do to increase the popularity of "their" sport . UFC and MMA in general is another major player needed to be looked at. as a buisness not as a sport.
Rooster
Posts
4432
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edmonton, CA
6/18/2012 11:35am
DC wrote:
Rooster, I am looking into a full PPV for international viewers In 2013, it's just not as easy as just saying, "I want my PPV MXTV..."...
Rooster,

I am looking into a full PPV for international viewers In 2013, it's just not as easy as just saying, "I want my PPV MXTV..." we do care deeply about the international market, as the best riders in the world all look to America for an opportunity to race, and we owe it to their fans back at home to try to broadcast there. But Canada is not an easy television landscape to navigate...

And Alli Sports is our commercial partners in the series, and they work the TV aspects. They are owned by the same company that owns NBC. We are very pleased to work with them and know that NBC Sports Network will grow quickly, especially following the Olympics this summer.

What I don't get is the people that want us to just show the races later.... Because we do show them later, like two days later, free on www.allispors.com. We just also show them live too.

As for looking ahead to SX, I am too. I am also looking forward to the rest of the nationals.

DC
MX Sports
Thanks DC.

I appreciate the reply and understand that Canada's a tough place to broadcast to, especially American content.

If the Portuguese feed for Fuel TV wasn't so laggy and buggy on JustinTV I'd probably be half fluent in Portuguese by now and wouldn't have missed a second of air time. Of course, neither you or your partners would see any income or ratings from that, so a better solution is beneficial for all involved.

I hope you're successful in your efforts and look forward to being able to watch the whole thing again in the future.
moto282
Posts
1294
Joined
7/25/2010
Location
Charlotte, NC, USA
6/18/2012 11:45am
Last weekend was awesome... 4hrs of live moto on TV was heaven for me, so thank you DC and MX Sports for that. I'm sure it's been mentioned but the only thing that would make it better is to offer PPV in addition to TV for those that don't get those stations or aren't in the US. But TV coverage is important and I would rather have TV and no PPV than the just PPV and no TV. Only doing PPV like the GPs would be bad IMO for exposure, sponsors, and growth of the sport.
Rupert X
Posts
11034
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newark, OH, USA
6/18/2012 2:32pm
DL wrote:
I've read this entire thread and all I can say is wow, what a bunch of babies. WTF, MX is very difficult to produce for TV...
I've read this entire thread and all I can say is wow, what a bunch of babies. WTF, MX is very difficult to produce for TV and 4-5 hours is a long time to expect live on a single network. I struggle some with a computer but I can work the DVR no problem. I also don't think comparing MXGP to our our outdoor coverage is fair. MXGP has many different countries to appeal to and frankly motorsports in general are a much bigger deal in most of those countries. In the end motocross is a business and things have to work financially. There is no way that pay per view could ever come close to covering the production costs. Things are getting better each year and the nature of specialized, national sports channels are evolving. Be happy!
Yo
Rupert X
Posts
11034
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newark, OH, USA
6/18/2012 2:34pm
DL wrote:
I've read this entire thread and all I can say is wow, what a bunch of babies. WTF, MX is very difficult to produce for TV...
I've read this entire thread and all I can say is wow, what a bunch of babies. WTF, MX is very difficult to produce for TV and 4-5 hours is a long time to expect live on a single network. I struggle some with a computer but I can work the DVR no problem. I also don't think comparing MXGP to our our outdoor coverage is fair. MXGP has many different countries to appeal to and frankly motorsports in general are a much bigger deal in most of those countries. In the end motocross is a business and things have to work financially. There is no way that pay per view could ever come close to covering the production costs. Things are getting better each year and the nature of specialized, national sports channels are evolving. Be happy!
Yo LIEB - perhaps us " bunch of babies" care enough about the sport that we want it high profile on ONE channel that

a large portion of American fans can watch on. Perhaps us "babies" want the sport to REALLY, REALLY grow so that

we can be on a more prominent channel, more folks can dig it and, perhaps, some money will trickle down to the

privateers.... I'm fortunate, I happened to be home on Saturday afternoon and have those channels and was able to flip

around - and I dug every minute of it. Not everybody has that access, Just because we whine, bitch and complain about an

inconsistent, fragmented and confusing series of telecast productions, does not make us " babies". Maybe we want

better for our sport - and the future of our sport - and care enough to voice our opinions. I might remind you that some of

us " babies" are grown men and women that have achieved things in our lives. I'd also like you to remind us of

your company's name, it's products, so we can continue our support. Us ' babies" purchase things when we're not

crying, you know?

I know Davey and company would like to have a better TV package, I hope nobody here is suggesting otherwise, limiting

the viewership does nothing for DC, MXSports or anybody involved with this wonderful, filthy pastime of ours - yet we'll

continue to gripe until we're all satisfied.... And NO, i have no answers on how to go about doing that and NO, I've got

no business negotiating TV rights or anything, for that matter, I can't even win when I;m negotiating with the wife over

towel - folding. Like most of you, I deeply love this habit of ours and only want the best for it - and everyone involved.

And hell , yes, I'm in for Red Bud.
2b
Posts
87
Joined
3/20/2012
Location
NZ
6/18/2012 3:02pm
To the people who say "just get DirecTV" or "DISH", This is not available in NZ!! neither is FUELTV or NBC or SPEED. SkyTV is the only thing availabe in NZ. SKYTV in NZ has ESPN & ESPN2 but thats it.

So i know of at least 10 people who would be willing to pay to be able to watch these races but there is no way to do so.. More lost $ for the MX Industry, Il have to spend my $ watching the GP's online since thats my only option.

it is good being able to watch the first moto on allisports though.
carlosmacho
Posts
1493
Joined
12/8/2009
Location
Lost Wages, NV, USA
6/18/2012 3:12pm
2b wrote:
To the people who say "just get DirecTV" or "DISH", This is not available in NZ!! neither is FUELTV or NBC or SPEED. SkyTV is the...
To the people who say "just get DirecTV" or "DISH", This is not available in NZ!! neither is FUELTV or NBC or SPEED. SkyTV is the only thing availabe in NZ. SKYTV in NZ has ESPN & ESPN2 but thats it.

So i know of at least 10 people who would be willing to pay to be able to watch these races but there is no way to do so.. More lost $ for the MX Industry, Il have to spend my $ watching the GP's online since thats my only option.

it is good being able to watch the first moto on allisports though.
I feel for you, but that is hardly a problem that DC or anyone in America an fix. You can find some reruns or even live links on the internet. That is all they can do for you. Realize a lot of people in America have access to these channels and complain. They just don't want to pay for it in any way. Just like everywhere else, nothing is free in America but because capitalism through the use of advertizing and sponsor, some things are given away to get you to buy stuff.

Post a reply to: I give up.......

The Latest