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This is motocross does the term "what have you done for me lately" ring a bell?
"Then why would the people who do support the AMA "
Because they know their money is going towards a local org, the track and the track owner to keep him in business instead of being squandered away by some huge org that makes a lot of money who needs another big competitor to make it competitive and dedicated to the sport again instead of money"
""people" decide to pull away from ama for this big issue only to go on to charge their own membership fees"
Competition improves the breed. AMA should not be afraid of competition at the local level, they should just improve their product, get rid of some of the fat, lower the salaries (you know like everyone else that has had to deal with a slow economy) an make sure the money goes where it should, the local tracks and orgs will not have to do this function.
"but we had this discussion already on another thread and won't go back over all that stuff again"
I missed that one but would have loved to have shared my thoughts.
"to me it seems that it's simply a lack of respect"
Respect is earned not given, and it can be just as easily be lost, as it is won. The AMA has been making a lot of bad choices, acting like a business instead of an organization and being a promoter, or sleeping in bed with the promoter with no concern to riders best interests IMHO, and you can dismiss my opinion or believe what you want but I think you in your own words are noticing more and more people losing respect ". many "people" may dismiss "... which demands the question... why? I think we know the answer.
The people that work and worked at AMA for alot of years most have done a good job. Todays group is the best it's ever been at least the ones i work with. They have my respect they have earned it.
Competition isn't the problem at all. The way it's done today limits the abilty for many to compete. that hopefully will change. AMA in my opinion has such a broad scope that it seems it never pleases anyone. They are the "biggest" target so it's easy to throw stuff to see what sticks.
We absolutely want it to be run like a business, at least a business that would not squander money. The staff and re-organization a few years ago addressed much of the stuff which is spoken here.
Its' going to be an interesting time, many of the people in my circle will continue to work hard to promote, improve, and help the AMA process work so that all racing can benifit not just the chosen few.
It was probably a way to show a revenue spike from the guys who paid ahead......which probably got someone a big bonus. Probably that Holingsworth idiot.
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But lets not forget who really is behind much of this crap. OEM's and thier marketing plan, big money promoter who facilitate that plan. no big secret there is there? Where the problem has been is to many of these types strategically place themselves in the sport where they can make big influences on rules. Don't deny any of that, but who else out there will work to fix it?
If anyone thinks that having little groups all over the country is better then being a part of one big group well this sport we love will be one of the first tobe gone the next time a hand wringing do gooder politician gets moving. Our organization (based on AMA proccess) worked together with ABATE and stopped a state senator from passing a bill out of committee that would have made it illegal for anyone under the age of 16 to race, ride, operate an off road vehicle. That was done with the help and guideance learned and used from AMA and the people who were trained by the AMA process.
No way is AMA perfect and no way will it ever be. But today after all it's growing pains and bad moves is there anyone else out there doing what they do? We in IL have worked in the system for over 40 years, things are tough, but we work together. How well does it work in you area? If it doesn't why not?
Racing in many of the instances that have been spoken here is really going to be better because they run them non ama and pocket the lessor membership fee? Can't anyone see what is the real issue here?
10.00 bucks to 49.00 is what? a half a tank a gas today? I guess the headline of this post of it being a "scam". Well going to a motocross race paying the race fees for a "big track" and getting 4 laps so 4o classes can run in a day is ok i guess but spending 10.00 bucks more for a process and foundation for new tracks and all tracks and clubs can move forward with a voice is to costly.
It won't change anyones' minds i guess but around here we still see a value in it.
I'll repeat it again if anyone needs me to.
We've all seen plenty of tracks close, but i've never seen/heard of the AMA trying to keep riding areas open; however, i see people riding on the street with no helmets, and i am led to believe the AMA has worked on the laws to keep that happening.
Now…On the other side of the coin, I can fully understand why the promoters are dubious and mistrusting of the AMA. There have been decades of built-up friction between the AMA and its tracks…Mostly because the AMA was constantly stepping in and trying to compete directly with their business (remember AMA Pro, Jam Sports, etc…). My strong hope is that era has passed. When Rob Dingman came to the helm of the organization, one of his clear goals was to simplify the AMA’s mission to focus only on motorcycle legal issues and the amateur racing rulebook (Rights, Riding, Racing). The AMA shed all of it’s promoting functions, and they instead have focused sharply on keeping our sport alive and making sure that there is a single, clear set of rules that everyone can go racing by. I can only hope that this mission has stayed consistent, and that the AMA is not trying to move outside the bounds they set for themselves a couple of years ago. If the promoters are sensing that the AMA is poised once again to try to take a chunk out of their ass, then it’s the AMA’s responsibility to communicate clearly to them what their mission is. If they are incapable of doing that, or in fact, their mission has changed, then shame on them…The promoters have all rights to protect their own turf.
Newmann, As for your email being a scam, I am 100% sure that it’s the result of a poorly constructed query when the AMA wrote the script to pump out the robo-emails. I had a similar situation when I went online to renew…There was no check box online to donate to the AMA PAC, so I didn’t…Every other year I have given my extra 10 bucks…The AMA needs to give much more overview when communicating with membership over money issues.
RaceFace, you nailed it. Ed Moreland, the AMA’s chief Washington D.C. council during the Lead Law fight (ironically, Ed has now taken a job setting up Harley’s new D.C. office) once told me that 1 million members for any organization is a tipping point. Once there are a million potential votes out there, folks on the Hill start listening. The AMA is the ONLY organization out there capable of fighting for our rights at the national level. Not supporting those efforts is unbelievably short sighted…All you have to do is make a simple list of all the arrows pointed at us to understand what fragile ground our sport stands on (noise, safety, engine emissions, dust, land use, erosion, etc., etc.). One law or regulation in ANY ONE of these areas could potentially debilitate our rights to ride and race (and a promoter’s ability to make a living). My advise: purchase a membership and become a part of ensuring a strong future for our sport. At that point, if you have a beef with how business is being conducted, then you’ll have a conduit (through your district representation) to make your voice heard.
Sean @ Cobra
To add to that point about the district which I personally know a little about. IF there isn't a representitive in you area, go become one, if the one in your area isn't doing what you wish them to do, run against them. AMA as in any grass roots type organization NEEDS NEW IDEAS, new blood etc. When we went to congress last fall I took my 15 year old with me, he took the referee certification seminar. It was eye opening what can be learned from 40 some referees sitting around a table.
Congress delegates like myself will take all advice, input, etc, I have people call me all the time. No matter where you are in the country AMA is about it's members, and well it works pretty well if people would get pro-active.
"If they are incapable of doing that, or in fact, their mission has changed, then shame on them…The promoters have all rights to protect their own turf."
They have done this before, why should they trust them, I know I don't, as I said, trust is earned, and they have done nothing to regain my trust? The only reason they became promoters was to make money and to protect themselves because I think money flow was already starting to slow. I distrust them and they will have to gain that trust back if they want my money.
So now they are very much like the gov. They take your money, spend it on what they think, but with no representation. They are lobbyists. They are big like big gov. I don't trust the gov, and I don't trust the AMA? Neither has given me reason to.
But at this point with my money... "The more you talk the more things sound the same" .. "Never gonna get it, Never gonna get it, Never gonna get it,"
It really seemed to me that the AMA gave two shits about the lead law until Mc Grath and others spoke up about it at a dealership and they realized they'd be loosing a ton of money because parents wouldn't be buying memberships for their kids. Then they wanted to fight for dirt bike riders. (Just my opinion of how I saw it fold out). If they'd better separate it between Street bike members paying for what they want and dirt bike riders paying for what they want/need, I might support it, but as it stands now dealing with the AMA is like dealing with a union.
It took a few months for our industry to figure out the far-reaching consequences of the law. Other industries were equally taken by surprise…The bicycle companies, libraries, medical instrument firms, skateboard makers, etc. were all left scratching their collective heads as to how to stay in business.
What ensued for the motorcycle industry was two grueling years of communication and education (aka lobbying) as to why our product should be excluded from the law. Keep in mind…We were essentially asking our congressmen to make a vote that could potentially backfire big-time on them…All a competing candidate would have to claim is, “my competitor voted to help big business and bring harm to kids”. In the end, motorcycles were the ONLY product to have a categorical exclusion granted to them, and the AMA was a big part of making that happen (as were MX Sports, the MIC, promoters like Jonathan Beasley & Amy Ritchie, and a gazillion grass-roots folks that didn’t want to see their sport go away).
Don’t underestimate the effort or political skill that the AMA brought to the table in this issue…and their plate is currently full with many similar fights as well.
Oh…and for earning the trust of the promoters…I agree…it will take some time to earn it back…especially the ones that ran pro nationals under the previous regime.
Sean @ Cobra
Pit Row
It is unfortunate that the AMA is so clueless to the threat that the noise and expense that the fourstroke revolution has brought to our sport.
Wardy, I do respect the work done by you and other representatives to AMA congress.
It would be much easier to give AMA more credit if AMA leadership had not been so clueless as to overturn a decision of the AMA congress like they did several years ago.
AMA rule Appendix 6.4, Promoter's duties and responsibilities, Section A, number 12 "The promoter must indicate in all advertisements that silenced exhaust systems are required"
Now that is pretty freaking funny......
In Michigan, there are currently 6 GLMX tracks. Red Bud, Dutch Sport Park, Log Road, Gratten, Big Air and now Stanton. Other than a few private tracks, the rest are District 14.
One track owner that recently switched back to District 14 from GLMX told me that the AMA has raised its rates considerably. Also, I recently read in Racer X or TWMX that the AMA was in financial trouble.
I totally aggree carlos with your statement there and well the only reason we are forced to wear a seatbelt.............so insurance companies bottom line is more secure. that simple.
Many have bitched for years about "ama and the helmet laws". Around here Abate are the ones that push that more then AMA...... but this in it's self is a good point. How many states force you to wear your seat belt like here in the Soviet state of Illinois??? but if i owned a road bike i could blow down the interestate 65mph with a pair of sun glasses. WHY? because of organizations like Abate and AMA.
Same goes for Blue ribbon Coalition group they do a great job at what they do. AMA trys to work with and help in all those aspects. Many times things aren't what i particulary like but I do buy into the idea that united we stand and divided we fall.
Yes i was that mx rider in 1975 that had to buy an AMA card and district card, i have enjoyed racing since then and now my family does also. Our business was developed and has done well with the foundation and process provided by AMA and the District. I choose to work and help in that process and think it's a positive thing. You bet we can find many things that are wrong with the proceess I choose to help fix that.
In fact i spent the better part of the day today discussing things with other congress delegates working on things to improve the processses and discuss some new ideas.
with that i need to yield we have a riding park, and a race track. At our riding park we introduce riders every chance we can to AMA and it's product. People look for a structure, and this national structure has been used by ama and others for a long time and is proven to work pretty well. Evident by the discussion being had on a postboard in the middle of the winter.
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