The future of dirt bikes...

WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 7:21pm
I was at a dealership picking up a new YZ250 yesterday for my son (graduation present, Congrats, Steve!), and they sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM. I spent some time just looking over all the bikes, and I have to say - KTM is going to own the dirt bike world soon. The overall build quality of the bikes, the thought that they're putting into them, the general artistry of the machine, is unmatched by ANY Japanese bike. KTM's willingness to build bikes whether there's a known, focus-grouped market or not is the sign of a company that builds bikes because they have a passion for them, not because they know they can sell X units for Y price at Z markup.

I bought him a Yamaha because that's what he wanted and because of the suspension - which is just incredible - but after we loaded the bike up he went back inside for something and when he came out, he said, "I love this thing, but I have a feeling it'll be my last Japanese bike". I think he's right.
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ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 5:42am
10/30/2011 5:42am
Future of dirt bikes is that they'll have an MSRP of $15,000 soon.
queen of spodes 10/30/2011 5:43am
10/30/2011 5:43am Edited Date/Time 10/30/2011 5:44am
When the Eurozone collapses we might be picking up our new KTM, Huskys and TMs for a lot less change.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 10/30/2011 5:50am
10/30/2011 5:50am
queen of spodes wrote:
When the Eurozone collapses we might be picking up our new KTM, Huskys and TMs for a lot less change.
You'd think so, but last week the Euro quasi-leadership came up with a bailout plan that was about as competent as a drunk trying to write a girl's phone number on a bar napkin, and the Euro increased in value compared to the dollar. I guess that just proves there's no connection between price and value in modern economics. But if you're right and the Euro drops in value (which it should), the KTMs are going to get a lot cheaper.
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 6:02am
10/30/2011 6:02am
When I buy another brand new bike, it will be a KTM. I love my Honda and other Japanese brands, they don't offer what I want.

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Shawn142
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Shawn142 10/30/2011 6:12am
10/30/2011 6:12am
In a few years the Japanese won't even make bikes anymore, you'll have a choice between Euro or Chinese.
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 6:15am
10/30/2011 6:15am
Will they not make them, or will we not import them? Or worse than that, will they own the USA?
7I3N
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7I3N 10/30/2011 9:09am
10/30/2011 9:09am
That's already happened in the desert racing world. At the desert races in my area, half of the bikes on the starting line are orange.

Two of the guys I ride with have KTM 300XCs. When I ride one of their bikes and then get back on my YZ450 it feels like a tank.

My next bike will be a 300XC. No doubt about that.
pilotdude
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pilotdude 10/30/2011 9:29am
10/30/2011 9:29am
Dirt bikes are not "food, clothing, shelter" and if the "voters" don't pull their heads out of their asses, and soon, they will be struggling just to have those.
bullpen58
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bullpen58 10/30/2011 10:58am
10/30/2011 10:58am
I don't think things are likely to change as much as you all are predicting. Look at Loretta's......millions of families there with muli-billion dollar motor-homes/semi's/toy-haulers/fleet of bikes.

The only thing that is DEFINITELY gonna happen is the prices will continue rising and poor white trash like me will have to quit and take up bowling.
rocrac
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rocrac 10/30/2011 11:41am
10/30/2011 11:41am
They can all choke on their $8,000 dirt bikes as far as I'm concerned KTM included.
MXR
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MXR 10/30/2011 11:43am
10/30/2011 11:43am
KTM needs to build a 500cc two stroke MX bike
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 11:59am
10/30/2011 11:59am
rocrac wrote:
They can all choke on their $8,000 dirt bikes as far as I'm concerned KTM included.
That is a lot of cash for a dirt bike.
mx_563
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mx_563 10/30/2011 12:11pm
10/30/2011 12:11pm
WHKnuckle: I've thought about this too and worry a bit. Kawi builds a lot of stuff and dirt bikes aren't the priority over there. Same can be said about the rest of the Japanese brands. Building with a passion isn't enough to be successful though. TM Racing builds with a passion, GasGas builds with a passion too. KTM built with a passion since day 1 but they only began making strides in recent years. I think it has to do with a very purposeful, strategic and well thought out push into racing with the hiring of guys like Beirer and Everts. I think that helped them transform their well equipped, beautiful, well built, yet poor performing bikes (remember the Euro-handling comments), into the linkage-equipped race winners they are today. That's just my opinion.

I don't see the Eurozone collapsing. I think the EU is much like KTM. They're tired of playing second fiddle and they're serious about moving forward. I don't necessarily like or agree with Queen Merkel's vision for the EU but while Obama is busy fending off "birther's", folks in Brussels are moving forward and making things happen. I'm not a politician or ecocomist so I'm probably wrong. Or not. Who knows?

Bullpen58: Loretta Lynn's is not a good indication of how healthy the sport or ecomony is.
jsanger211 10/30/2011 12:17pm
10/30/2011 12:17pm
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
ClassCClairVoyant 10/30/2011 12:30pm
10/30/2011 12:30pm
I've had KTM phobia for years. I almost bought a new one a few years ago but got cold feet at the last minute. I agree the build quality is striking but I worry about long term reliabily along with the general quirkyness of the bikes. Well... I bought a used one finally a couple weeks ago and the build quality is really striking and it is a little quirky but so far I really like the thing. The Jap bikes are all very close design-wise but KTM obviously has its own take on how to build a bike. There is some very clever stuff on it and it almost seems like a works bike compared to the mass produced Japanese bikes. Anyone else made switch? How'd it go?
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 10/30/2011 12:30pm
10/30/2011 12:30pm
jsanger211 wrote:
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
HatersSuck
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HatersSuck 10/30/2011 12:30pm
10/30/2011 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2011 12:30pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I was at a dealership picking up a new YZ250 yesterday for my son (graduation present, Congrats, Steve!), and they sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM...
I was at a dealership picking up a new YZ250 yesterday for my son (graduation present, Congrats, Steve!), and they sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM. I spent some time just looking over all the bikes, and I have to say - KTM is going to own the dirt bike world soon. The overall build quality of the bikes, the thought that they're putting into them, the general artistry of the machine, is unmatched by ANY Japanese bike. KTM's willingness to build bikes whether there's a known, focus-grouped market or not is the sign of a company that builds bikes because they have a passion for them, not because they know they can sell X units for Y price at Z markup.

I bought him a Yamaha because that's what he wanted and because of the suspension - which is just incredible - but after we loaded the bike up he went back inside for something and when he came out, he said, "I love this thing, but I have a feeling it'll be my last Japanese bike". I think he's right.
I agree with you. KTM's are the future. Actually they are the present. You bought a 2007 YZ250 with a 2012 stamp on the frame. Woohoo
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 10/30/2011 12:43pm
10/30/2011 12:43pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I was at a dealership picking up a new YZ250 yesterday for my son (graduation present, Congrats, Steve!), and they sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM...
I was at a dealership picking up a new YZ250 yesterday for my son (graduation present, Congrats, Steve!), and they sell Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM. I spent some time just looking over all the bikes, and I have to say - KTM is going to own the dirt bike world soon. The overall build quality of the bikes, the thought that they're putting into them, the general artistry of the machine, is unmatched by ANY Japanese bike. KTM's willingness to build bikes whether there's a known, focus-grouped market or not is the sign of a company that builds bikes because they have a passion for them, not because they know they can sell X units for Y price at Z markup.

I bought him a Yamaha because that's what he wanted and because of the suspension - which is just incredible - but after we loaded the bike up he went back inside for something and when he came out, he said, "I love this thing, but I have a feeling it'll be my last Japanese bike". I think he's right.
HatersSuck wrote:
I agree with you. KTM's are the future. Actually they are the present. You bought a 2007 YZ250 with a 2012 stamp on the frame. Woohoo
Sure. But a sweet '07 is a sweet '012 too.

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queen of spodes 10/30/2011 1:21pm
10/30/2011 1:21pm
rocrac wrote:
They can all choke on their $8,000 dirt bikes as far as I'm concerned KTM included.
ky_savage wrote:
That is a lot of cash for a dirt bike.
I found a near pristine '01 RM125 for $1k a few years ago. I've never owned a new bike and hope to one day, but the used market has done me well over the years.
NeKawBoy
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NeKawBoy 10/30/2011 1:21pm
10/30/2011 1:21pm
ClassCClairVoyant wrote:
I've had KTM phobia for years. I almost bought a new one a few years ago but got cold feet at the last minute. I agree...
I've had KTM phobia for years. I almost bought a new one a few years ago but got cold feet at the last minute. I agree the build quality is striking but I worry about long term reliabily along with the general quirkyness of the bikes. Well... I bought a used one finally a couple weeks ago and the build quality is really striking and it is a little quirky but so far I really like the thing. The Jap bikes are all very close design-wise but KTM obviously has its own take on how to build a bike. There is some very clever stuff on it and it almost seems like a works bike compared to the mass produced Japanese bikes. Anyone else made switch? How'd it go?
I made the switch to a 2011 KTM250XC last spring since riding Kawasaki's since the early 1970's. While Kawasaki makes great MX bikes they lost my demographic when the KDX and KX series was discontinued in America. I thought about a new KX250F but by the time i had it set-up for woods riding I'd have over $10,000 in it. No thanks.
If you go back 6 years my riding group had 2 KTM's, 4 Honda's, 1 Kawasaki, 3 Yamaha's and a Suzuki. Now all but 2 are on KTM 2 strokes. I guess the 2 stroke is neither dead nor illegal.
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bigborefan 10/30/2011 1:23pm
10/30/2011 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2011 1:25pm
I was a long time Honda guy then a Kawi guy. I had lots of KX500s. I bought my first KTM in 2006, KTM 300XC, awesome motorcycle. The KTMs are as reliable and last just as long as the Japanese bikes do. For me, I am going to cut the same lap times no matter what I ride, so I buy what I like and what excites me.

I have a KTM 530, KTM 690 and KTM 950SE in my garage right now. My MX days are behind me as well.

Having said all that, the Japanese make fine machines also, great value and reliable well made products. For me they just bore me anymore though. I don't even bother to read the 450 or 250 shootouts in the magazines.
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 1:32pm
10/30/2011 1:32pm
queen of spodes wrote:
I found a near pristine '01 RM125 for $1k a few years ago. I've never owned a new bike and hope to one day, but the...
I found a near pristine '01 RM125 for $1k a few years ago. I've never owned a new bike and hope to one day, but the used market has done me well over the years.
My last new bike was an '05. With the cost of new bikes getting more and more ridiculous, that might have been my last new one.
jsanger211 10/30/2011 1:34pm
10/30/2011 1:34pm
jsanger211 wrote:
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only...
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
Hu.. good to know thanks.
Chris O'Neal
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Chris O'Neal 10/30/2011 1:35pm
10/30/2011 1:35pm
I've been saying that for a while now. If I was to buy a new bike now it would for sure be a KTM big bore dual sport or a KTM 150 two stroke.

If you want to see a lot of KTM's go to a woods race here in New England! Holy shit there are thousands at every event. Seriously!
NeWskoolmxer
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NeWskoolmxer 10/30/2011 1:38pm
10/30/2011 1:38pm
I thought this was the future?




Tongue
queen of spodes 10/30/2011 2:00pm
10/30/2011 2:00pm
NeWskoolmxer wrote:
I thought this was the future? [img]http://www.cyclenews.com/files/news_articles/newbikes/0909/YZ450F_right4.jpg[/img] :P
I thought this was the future?




Tongue
No, you're mistaking the Yamaha for this:

RaceFace
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RaceFace 10/30/2011 2:09pm
10/30/2011 2:09pm
jsanger211 wrote:
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only...
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI. Yes, EFI has advantages but do we need it and at what cost? Same with the aluminum frames. There are some that see steel frames as archaic as they do now with carbureted bikes.

As for KTM taking over completely, not until they are head and shoulders the best choice for moto. They rule in offroad because they are the best setup for the task at hand. In moto though, they aren't the only game and most likely not the best performance across the board. Then it has to be factored in that KTMs sell for $300-$400 more than the Japanese counterparts. I think that is a big source of this "quality build" that exists. Much of KTMs perceived impending dominance in the U.S. will ride on Dungey looking like he moves forward in speed this year. If he falters, KTM takes a bit of a hit, as far as taking over.
eThug
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eThug 10/30/2011 2:22pm
10/30/2011 2:22pm
KTM is a motorcycle company so they HAVE to invest in their bikes.

That being said, with the way things are going, it appears as if we might not have Japanese bikes in the near future.
machine
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machine 10/30/2011 2:28pm
10/30/2011 2:28pm
jsanger211 wrote:
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only...
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
RaceFace wrote:
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI...
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI. Yes, EFI has advantages but do we need it and at what cost? Same with the aluminum frames. There are some that see steel frames as archaic as they do now with carbureted bikes.

As for KTM taking over completely, not until they are head and shoulders the best choice for moto. They rule in offroad because they are the best setup for the task at hand. In moto though, they aren't the only game and most likely not the best performance across the board. Then it has to be factored in that KTMs sell for $300-$400 more than the Japanese counterparts. I think that is a big source of this "quality build" that exists. Much of KTMs perceived impending dominance in the U.S. will ride on Dungey looking like he moves forward in speed this year. If he falters, KTM takes a bit of a hit, as far as taking over.
If RD and Roczen help develop the suspension then lookout. As soon as I got mine done, it performed better than Jap stuff IMO. That's the only thing they still need to offer, is good valving bone stock the rest of the bike is awesome.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/30/2011 2:36pm
10/30/2011 2:36pm
Yeah, the Japs have taken a hit. Ktm is the big guy right now.

The future of dirt bkes is good if the economy is good. Consumers are not making more money, so they are spending less. Whether it's 2 or 4 stroke doesn't matter, they are all too expensive and will soon be too much to buy and operate.

As far as the future in general, well that's another subject.

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