AMA Petition up to 4768

burn1986
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burn1986
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 10:31am
Yes, there is still a petition to allow 100-150cc 2-strokes in the 250 class and 151-300cc 2-strokes in the 450 class in AMA Pro MX and SX racing.

This was opened on July 28, 2010 and has generated much productive discussion with the AMA and others in the MX industry. Will it happen? I hope it does. Although it hasn't been implemented yet, a healthy dialogue with the AMA has opened up, and over 4700 petitioners have let their voice be heard. Very cool.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/6/2011 2:08pm
10/6/2011 2:08pm
What is the plan for this petition, when is it going to be formally presented for consideration? Do you know the deadline to have the rule implemented for the 2012 season? I signed the petition, even though it will make zero impact on pro racing.
FastEddy
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FastEddy 10/6/2011 2:10pm
10/6/2011 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 2:15pm
How many are real pros out of the "4768 people" that signed it and are capable of making mains in SX or qualifying for a Pro AMA National?
Slow
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Slow 10/6/2011 2:11pm
10/6/2011 2:11pm
4768 in over a year? Sounds like a dead movement to me.

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burn1986
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burn1986 10/6/2011 2:14pm
10/6/2011 2:14pm
Here's the deal. I've already printed it out once (with 4000 signatures, comments, and proposals) and mailed it in to Kevin Crowther, about 6 months ago. He reviewed it and said that it would received the same consideration as all the other proposals. That was the last I heard. When it reaches 5000, I will do it again with updated proposals and research and maybe send it to all the OEMs as well. It's obviously too late for the 2012 season, but I will hit it hard for 2013.
Torco1
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Torco1 10/6/2011 2:16pm
10/6/2011 2:16pm
GuyB
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GuyB 10/6/2011 2:25pm
10/6/2011 2:25pm
Man, it's good that you included bikes down to 100cc in the lower class, and bikes as low as 151cc in the upper class. I can't imagine how many people would be all over the idea of racing racing a 100cc bike against a 250F. Wink

On another note...remember the 100cc class? 175s?
ocscottie
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ocscottie 10/6/2011 2:29pm
10/6/2011 2:29pm
Someone did the same during the MCM days petitioning Rainbow to put out a patch for the game. What did it accomplish? about the same as this petition will.
FastEddy
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FastEddy 10/6/2011 2:44pm
10/6/2011 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2011 2:52pm
ocscottie wrote:
Someone did the same during the MCM days petitioning Rainbow to put out a patch for the game. What did it accomplish? about the same as...
Someone did the same during the MCM days petitioning Rainbow to put out a patch for the game. What did it accomplish? about the same as this petition will.
Yep.

Going to the OEM's with a just petition in hand sounds like an uphill battle to me...
Reason being is they look at it from a marketing standpoint when Joe public speaks,that is no secret.
I dont see them throwing millions of dollars into developing new 2strokes to be competitive,just over a petition.
Now, if you had a list of 5,000 investors that were willing to dump millions
into development for each OEM then you would be on to something....
Money talks. Wink

Trying to sell them on a petition of 5,000 signatures is nothing to them (OEM's)
but 5,000 impressions.Compare that number of impressions their top riders get
in all the AX's,SX's & Nationals around the the USA.
5,000 is hardly nothing.

Hop-up after market companies would be my first target.
Guys that have facilities that are capable of producing 150cc hop-up kits for 125's &
also 300cc hop-up kits for 250's that can be competitive at the top of the sport.
And send investors their way,not signatures....let them deal with AMA Pro.

People think that if they the consumer votes with their wallets that is what counts to the Japanese.
That is not always true...investors play a much larger role on the decisions they make.
ando
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ando 10/6/2011 2:44pm
10/6/2011 2:44pm
Cool. By about 2031 you'll have enough signatures to make people sit up and take notice.
flyinb501
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flyinb501 10/7/2011 7:43am
10/7/2011 7:43am
I signed it.
TOYE180
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TOYE180 10/7/2011 7:57am
10/7/2011 7:57am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2012 3:41pm
burn1986 wrote:
Yes, there is still a petition to allow 100-150cc 2-strokes in the 250 class and 151-300cc 2-strokes in the 450 class in AMA Pro MX and...
Yes, there is still a petition to allow 100-150cc 2-strokes in the 250 class and 151-300cc 2-strokes in the 450 class in AMA Pro MX and SX racing.

This was opened on July 28, 2010 and has generated much productive discussion with the AMA and others in the MX industry. Will it happen? I hope it does. Although it hasn't been implemented yet, a healthy dialogue with the AMA has opened up, and over 4700 petitioners have let their voice be heard. Very cool.
.
UpTiTe 10/7/2011 8:02am
10/7/2011 8:02am
You'll never revive the 2 stroke in a class where a rider depends on his results to earn a living.

You want to change? start at the local level because in AMA Pro comp, the 2 stroke is dead.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/7/2011 8:03am
10/7/2011 8:03am
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that the 4-stroke movement has had on the American market.
TOYE180
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TOYE180 10/7/2011 8:17am
10/7/2011 8:17am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2012 3:41pm
burn1986 wrote:
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that...
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that the 4-stroke movement has had on the American market.
.
UpTiTe 10/7/2011 8:40am
10/7/2011 8:40am
burn1986 wrote:
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that...
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that the 4-stroke movement has had on the American market.
I know the impact its had and what the people are saying, what I'm saying is that you're barking up the wrong tree. The AMA is run by the OEMs and they want to sell 4 strokes, and Honestly pros go faster easier on 4 strokes . Like o said, start at the local and get the public intrested in them again it will create demand.

Just so you know, I ride a 2 stroke.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/7/2011 8:51am
10/7/2011 8:51am
Good point UpTiTe.
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GrapeApe 10/7/2011 9:58am
10/7/2011 9:58am
TOYE180 wrote:
.
Tracks changed, styles changed, markets changed, media changed, DIRTBIKES changed, MOTOCROSS CHANGED. Move on.


Harsh, but true. I would love to go down to my local dealer and see 125's and 250t's on the floor next to the F's, but the OEM's have moved on for now. Someday development of the 4 strokes will get stale, and maybe at that time we will see some sort of super-duper direct injected 2 stroke technology become the new cash cow for the OEM's. It will be funny to see Newmann's grandkid on Vital MX 6.0 bitching to GuyB, III about the OEM's no longer developing the trusty 4 strokes that were such a nostalgic memory of his youth!

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MX7MX
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MX7MX 10/7/2011 10:34am
10/7/2011 10:34am
burn1986 wrote:
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that...
Ha Ha to all the naysayers. Even so, if you read the comments, you'll see a cross section of American motocross and the real impact that the 4-stroke movement has had on the American market.
UpTiTe wrote:
I know the impact its had and what the people are saying, what I'm saying is that you're barking up the wrong tree. The AMA is...
I know the impact its had and what the people are saying, what I'm saying is that you're barking up the wrong tree. The AMA is run by the OEMs and they want to sell 4 strokes, and Honestly pros go faster easier on 4 strokes . Like o said, start at the local and get the public intrested in them again it will create demand.

Just so you know, I ride a 2 stroke.
Sad part is.....we already have CC to CC racing in the amateur ranks........and I don't really see anybody giving 2 shits about it. Dead issue......eventually you guys will learn to let go when all your efforts are for NOTHING. Its like pushing a M1 Abrams tank up a hill all by yourself.......eventually no matter how hard you try, you'll finally figure out that it aint happening.
miedosoracing1 10/7/2011 10:43am
10/7/2011 10:43am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2011 10:45am
I wouldn't say the OEM's haven't noticed stuff like this, and the 5th post of every other MX and offroad forum. They have taken notice, and exactly why you see reports/rumors of 2 strokes being produced by some companies in the near future. They may all keep to the Yamaha production schedule and only produce enough to keep the 2 stroke guys happy, but to say they haven't taken notice is wrong. Second, in the areas that have had cc vs cc, just like when the 4 strokes came onto the scene, it took some years. It is about at 30 percent in areas that have had 3 years now. About the same speed from 1998 when the YZ400 came on the scene to 2004ish when they really took over. I am in no way saying 2 strokes will take over again. My opinion and what I'd personally like to see, is 50% of both.
loftyair
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loftyair 10/7/2011 11:54am
10/7/2011 11:54am
Someone said,"5,000 investors that were willing to dump millions
into development for each OEM", and "let me get rid of my state of the art four stroke".
Japan dumped millions onto the 4-stroke development, and you bought one for $1000 more, even thought it really wasn't any better, worse actually, just got better starts on average. I can see that arguement. Half the race is the start thing.
Thing is, it wouldn't take millions to have a 'state of the art' 2-stroke, therefore save your $1000 on showroom bike cost.
It's all marketing, and the 4-stroke was a cash cow at the time, and still is. Bottom line is, the 2-stroke is lighter, faster, cheaper. A 2-stroke could be made in japan, or austria, that would be a much faster steed on any mx track than the 4-stroke step-child. THey can make a 2-stroke 'chug' just like the late 4-strokes, it was just that with half the displacement, they made them hit hard and narrow, because a real pro knows how to master it.
Get rid of displacement bs in pro racing, a less expensive state of the art 2-stroke, maybe around 300cc or so, would make the 4-stroke state of the art machine be not so state of the art anymore. But, as long as everyone is spending $1000 more out the door, why would they make an even better bike cheaper?
Oh, lower the weight minimum while your at it, and let them run with lead in fuel, that'll change it all back.
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RaceFace 10/7/2011 1:23pm
10/7/2011 1:23pm
Slow wrote:
4768 in over a year? Sounds like a dead movement to me.
I was thinking maybe I missed the little (in thousands) next to the 4,768.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 10/7/2011 1:25pm
10/7/2011 1:25pm
loftyair wrote:
Someone said,"5,000 investors that were willing to dump millions into development for each OEM", and "let me get rid of my state of the art four...
Someone said,"5,000 investors that were willing to dump millions
into development for each OEM", and "let me get rid of my state of the art four stroke".
Japan dumped millions onto the 4-stroke development, and you bought one for $1000 more, even thought it really wasn't any better, worse actually, just got better starts on average. I can see that arguement. Half the race is the start thing.
Thing is, it wouldn't take millions to have a 'state of the art' 2-stroke, therefore save your $1000 on showroom bike cost.
It's all marketing, and the 4-stroke was a cash cow at the time, and still is. Bottom line is, the 2-stroke is lighter, faster, cheaper. A 2-stroke could be made in japan, or austria, that would be a much faster steed on any mx track than the 4-stroke step-child. THey can make a 2-stroke 'chug' just like the late 4-strokes, it was just that with half the displacement, they made them hit hard and narrow, because a real pro knows how to master it.
Get rid of displacement bs in pro racing, a less expensive state of the art 2-stroke, maybe around 300cc or so, would make the 4-stroke state of the art machine be not so state of the art anymore. But, as long as everyone is spending $1000 more out the door, why would they make an even better bike cheaper?
Oh, lower the weight minimum while your at it, and let them run with lead in fuel, that'll change it all back.
Why is it that people still think the OEM's just "decided" one day to make and force 4-strokes on us? It was not a conspiracy perpetrated by the manufacturers.
holeshot100
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holeshot100 10/7/2011 1:35pm
10/7/2011 1:35pm
Displacement rules should be the same whether it is 4 or 2 stroke, and even then the four stroke will prevail.
JLong
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JLong 10/7/2011 1:55pm
10/7/2011 1:55pm
This petition, if passed, will accomplish nothing. Well maybe the 5,000 petitioners will riot and declare victory in the streets, but nothing will change in Pro racing.

The Privateers will still be broke, and the Factory guys will continue to race the bikes provided to them by their teams. And those will be the ones they have the best chance of winning on and also the ones being sold on the showrooms.

Buy your two-strokes and have fun on the weekends. Pro racing has moved on....
queen of spodes 10/7/2011 2:56pm
10/7/2011 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2011 2:58pm
holeshot100 wrote:
Displacement rules should be the same whether it is 4 or 2 stroke, and even then the four stroke will prevail.
Depending on the track conditions, yeah. Thumpers get better traction out of each combustion cycle. They are easier to ride. So even if the AMA let 500s into the 450 class it wouldn't matter. Nobody would ride one.

Maybe.. maybe someone would use a 250t in the 250f class on the AMA pro level.. but probably not.

Meanwhile I'll continue loving my 125 and enjoying the European 125 races when they are posted here.

Maybe the 125 class will eventually catch on in America as a support class in the nationals. Who knows. That seems a better use of time and resources.

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