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I suppose you can have intranational (I had to look up this word) capitalism but only to a point and we surpassed that point a long time ago. Our “farm animal” has outgrown our borders and we must find pastures anew on which to graze it. The last 70+ years of American adventurism and expansionist policies I think is proof of that. Capitalism goes where the most amount of capital can be had with the least amount of resistance.
Your last 2 sentences.. I think we’re already there… Without continuous growth capitalism cannot service its debt and that underlying driving force along with the fundamental tension between finite resources and endless expansion is the guarantee that the final nail in the coffin will be driven. A global economic system dependent on finite resources is destined to fail. There is no way to reconcile it with any form of sustainability because that would require a reconfiguration of the system which would be antagonistic towards every single one of its fundamental principles and would equate to a massively radical redistribution of wealth. Those that currently possess the bulk of the world’s wealth see this as undesirable because it undermines the structures of power that allow them to maintain authority and influence.
The fall of capitalism is inevitable and I imagine it leaves those who possess the bulk of the capital feeling desperate. Where we go from here one can only speculate, but generally speaking, desperate people make desperate decisions.
More about power and dominance than policing.
Our own problems at home are fundamentally tied to the value of our currency. The value of our currency is fundamentally tied to the premise that other nations must trade in the US dollar.
All the material wealth we Americans are so proud of and have bound our identities with is intrinsically tied to this behavior. It is our business and it’s Donald’s duty to protect the livelihood of America. I’m surprised you’re unable to see this
As far as I know it is not illegal to enter a country and pick up a fugitive who has agreed to cooperate with the government and enter witness protection.
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You can just do shit, who knew.
It was all agreed upon before the US entered the country.
The US has taken out or arrested foreign leaders before:
Arrested Noriega
Killed Bin Laden
Killed Hussien
Of all of those leaders who got to invite their wife to go with them?
Maduro knows everything about the drug business and the ties to other countries. That is extremely valuable information and if Maduro would have tried to get out of the country on his own one of his generals would have executed him before he got on a plane. This was all cloak and dagger stuff and eventually the facts will come out.
I disagree with this. The problems at home that most everyday working class Americans face are corporate corruption, and policy structures aimed to protect the corporations that pull the strings.
Initially we went to tariffs and how other countries have unfairly ripped us off for a long time. So we went aggressive on tarriffs, which most people are now recognizing is really just a backdoor tax that most everyday Americans feel in their own wallet. The next diversion was illegal immigrants and how they are taking our slice of the pie and stealing jobs, tax money, etc. With that being aggressively cleaned up, and people still struggling day to day, we now move back to other countries and their valuable resources, in the name of protecting ourselves at home. Some of this is probably driven by the concerning AI race and push to control global supply of valuable resources regardless of any negative consequences. It's not done to protect or enrich everyday Americans, it is is power hungry folks who just want to win, and enrich the corporations that helped them get there in the process.
Unfortunately, we still haven't even begun to address our problems at home. We love to blame others. Donny is a really bad flavor of the shitty cool aid we've been drinking for a long time. He's just a lot sloppier than folks in the past, and as a result a lot of people are starting to recognize what is actually going on.
I think most would agree with you however who in America is going to vote to launch ourselves into a Great Depression in order to fix the debt problem? No politician is ever going to play political suicide by doing this. So he's doing what's necessary to try and salvage our dollar and our world power. He's actually trying to protect everyone here in the US, whether you like him or not. The debt crisis is almost at a boiling point and something has to give. I don't think most Americans would vote for a total collapse, so here we are making strategic moves in an attempt to salvage what we all have in this country. Go listen to some of the interviews with Elon Musk and pay attention to what he says about the debt crisis and corruption he's witnessed. He thinks there is no way to fix either. Combine all of this with a huge blow coming to our economy with AI taking over jobs, things are going to get ugly. Worrying about Trump taking out a Narco to secure oil, defend our territory from Russia and China, and also try to chip away at the debt crisis is the last thing anyone should be worried about.
To be fair, if Trump was concerned about protecting Americans and their ability to provide for themselves, there would be more oversight and management of the Ai evolution. But there isn't, because Ai replacing human labor is great for corporations and shareholders, at the expense of everyday working class Americans.
Until our system is restructured to stop serving the corporate elite, and keeping shareholders (instead of workers who actually provide value) happy, our problems will persist and surely get worse with Ai developments.
People like @Zycki11 for example (and I'm not hating the player, I hate the game) who make their living investing and trading. They make money off the backs of others doing the work and providing value. They don't add value to the collective, just take their slice to enrich themselves. Our corporations are structured to provide returns to shareholders, not provide healthy wages to support the working class that actually makes it happen. This is wage theft with a fancy cloak.
A rising tide should lift all boats in my opinion. We're all on the same boat at the end of the day.
The AI oligarchs are some of his biggest backers. Vance as well, Little Marco, etc.
"Until our system is restructured to stop serving the corporate elite, and keeping shareholders (instead of workers who actually provide value) happy, our problems will persist and surely get worse with Ai developments"
You don't believe it's symbiotic? You don't think the shareholders provide value? Who's money is at risk paying that blue collar worker to make the widget? If that widget has a fault in the design and the company drops half it's value overnight is that blue collar worker obliged to return some back pay or move on to another company with no loss. What can said share holder do to recover that loss? It's a very symbiotic relationship.
Fair points for sure. In this instance, the blue collar worker probably gets laid off to help recover costs and to soften the hit for the investor. This is a risk shareholders take, and good ones are able to take hits like you describe. They may just help that company realize their product sooner than they otherwise would have in a more organic fashion. Our system is all about growth over everything, but why are we obsessed with growing bigger, faster? Clearly as we are seeing today, this isn't exactly a sustainable model.
It's hard for us to imagine a system that evolves organically (with reasonable government oversight). It's hard to imagine a government that does anything reasonable, too...
If the USA has to forcefully either militarily or politically expand its territories on sovereign territories (speaking about Greenland here) to stay alive we’ve run our course as a country imo.
If those territories want to join us that’s entirely different
Well, I agree but you have to consider our options, and this is what everyone seems to be missing as they are distracted with micro political actions taken by an orange man they don't like. Pick one:
1. Expand our territories forcefully - people are forced under our umbrella, we can possible salvage what we have
2. Inject ourselves with a needle that results in a nasty great depression - people starve and die
3. Full collapse of the dollar/US, China takes over - people starve and die
This is where we are at folks. Combine this with AI and you should consider starting your doomsday prepping early.
People focus so much on the ultra successful "billionaires".
But there are millions of people who have tried to start a business venture, were not successful, and lost everything (often getting judgements against them for more than they are worth- so they literally have a negative net worth).
Go look at weekly public records lawsuits and judgements, those people didn't have the safety net of an employer paycheck.
When you are the employee, worst case you lose your job and go find another.
You fail as a business owner, you could have millions of dollars of debt judgements against you. Yes you can file BK, but good luck starting any business venture in the future.
Someone has to start the business to begin with, so that employees can have jobs. The person risking their financial future to start a business is what creates new jobs. Businesses becoming "successful" is what creates new jobs.
Or we could try the other method, the Government owns everything, and everyone is just an employee. Pretty sure that one has been tried already though, numerous times, without success.
For sure. It isn't easy to start and run a successful business, and not everyone is cut out to be a business owner. The businesses (moreso business size) you describe are only a few steps removed from the employee in the grand scheme of US policy drivers, but they are certainly taking more risk than an employee. Our country was largely built on the businesses you describe. But we have put them on the backburner in the name of serving the larger corporations that run the show here, especially the past few decades.
Look at COVID and how many small businesses died, while the big ones got handouts.
4. Complete worldwide social and cultural revolution. This is the only option where the possibility of a sustainable societal and economic model is possible. Until this happens it’s us or them. Kill or be killed
Since many investors are older people investing their retirement funds, they may not have time to recover the loss. So to attract investment $$s companies need to lure them in with "profits". Most companies can't grow without investment $$s. As for Mr. Blue Collar. He needs to sometimes take a step back and see that while he contributes to the success, so do the investment dollars that pay his wages. It's a balancing act, you need both. If you continue to fuck one side, failure is inevitable.
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Exactly. The millionaires and billionaires of the world aren’t the problem. It’s multi national financial investment corporations like Blackrock that control trillions and trillions of dollars. Why own when you can control? It takes any sort of liability off your shoulders.
I don’t think we have to live in fear that way or that those are the only options.
The sky is not falling. It’s a tactic to control people.
This may be true but the whole boils down to the fact that our entire society is based on two fundamental concepts- 1- continual growth in order to meet the demands of debt and 2-reliance on finite resources.
We’ve crossed a line and debt rather than industrial production is the key driver of economic growth and profit. Focus has shifted from making physical goods to generating profit from financial instruments and interest payments, with finance capital gaining power over industrial capital.
We’ve trapped ourselves in a cycle of debt peonage and there is no way to remove ourselves from it without undermining every single fundamental principle our societal structure is dependent on. Which means the only option is worldwide revolution, but it doesn’t, and likely will not look like the Hollywood movies. Either way it’s better than remaining a slave to an idea because of the fear of the unknown. And yes it is just an idea because after all our money is paper. It’s based on only a promise. It means nothing without being affixed to the idea of it. This belief is the most morally bankrupt and destructive religion in the world. And yet every dollar we make, we make for it. This is the daily dilemma we face.
Disagree mostly on the grounds that the system itself doesn't really matter. America has a mindset problem where we expect too much from a system to create our morality for us, but the system is whatever we make it, which is why the gap between American capitalism and European socialism, is actually very small, yet the purest forms of capitalism and socialism are very far apart. So I don't think there's such a thing as the fall of capitalism being inevitable, but the fall of American morality may be inevitable, as evident in the support the theft of resources and even countries.
I suppose you believe that some sort of reform or reconfiguration of our existing system is a feasible solution?
And what does this reconfiguration look like? The only reform that could address all of our concerns domestically and internationally is the redistribution of wealth, authority, control of natural resources and the means of production. All of which equate to power.
The idea that the State is going to enact policies which radically redistribute global wealth and resources is ludicrous because those are the things its authority and power are reliant on. It’s not going to legislate itself into obsolescence. The idea that it will, or even that it can, is imo fairytale land. Reform is just not possible. The issues are too systemic, too interconnected and too institutionalized.
The only option outside of the ones given by blackdiesalbomber, and the only one capable of systemic and necessary change is not reform or reconfiguration, but to rebuild and to rebuild on a new footprint, a new foundation. We must build on new fundamental concepts on how we should try to live. In order to achieve this, we as humanity, will need to seek and find, and base our existence on new fundamental assumptions about our place in the universe.
Honestly no I don’t think we are capable of that. I think we are destined for a fracturing of the USA. What that looks like I don’t exactly know but we are being played by the political system. Both sides paint fringe viewpoints as the entire identity of that party (right, nazi’s and racists and the left USA hating traitors). And in the middle sit 70% of us that are just saying wtf is going on but with no real way to change things.
But if you are asking where I would start:
the problems are too complex to solve all at one time. But you can chip away at them overtime. The first being corporate/special interest in politics. When 90% of Americans don’t think members of congress should be trading individual stocks or influenced by corporations but they won’t do anything about it it’s no longer a govt for the people by the people of the people.
Fixing problems with your business, yourself, your relationships always comes at a cost. And yes we probably would suffer initially if we got corporate lobbying out of politics. But the long term gain would be worth it imo.
I agree for the most part, but mindset problem or system problem, they are two sides of the same coin. Mirror images of eachother, or different perspectives of the same situation. They both exist because of each other and without eachother, neither exist in the shape they do.
One is dependent on a metaphysical aspect (our assumptions about our place or relationship within the universe/existence), and the other is the physical manifestation of this assumption. So guess I give hierarchy to our metaphysical assumptions. But then again, changing our physical or material reality can most certainly help to shape our assumptions about our place within the universe and all of existence
It’s the whole Mind-body dualism / ying&yang thing. I think a rational approach is to give equal validity to both. We do possess the power to change our material condition and we can do this by accomplishing systemic changes to the existing pillars of power.
It believe our best course of action is to consider that both our mindset problems and our system problems will need to be considered holistically and healed jointly.
Strong body = strong mind/strong mind = strong body
Fully agree with you but you’re not considering the fundamental argument that I’m making when I claim it’s impossible to chip away at such things. Chipping away is reform, it is single issue politics and doesn’t address the fundamental issues at stake. It’s a compartmentalized approach to a problem whose needs can only be addressed holistically.
The mechanism for removing money from politics would undermine every single aspect of our entire society, both economically and culturally. That one particular issue is entangled within a larger system such that decoupling it, reforming it, and plugging it back into the same system is not just impractical, it’s impossible.
Reform is like buying a house from 1850 and hiring a builder to come in and rebuild the entire thing except there’s one caveat: they can not go down into, look at, or even consider the condition of the foundation… So everything we try to fix (reform/chip away at) matters not because what we are building on is a fundamentally unsound and defective foundation, and it will always undermine all efforts to “fix” what is broken.
I don’t disagree with you fully we’ll never get it right. But I don’t think wanting government to be just slightly less controlled by corporations is asking for the world.
The world is too complex to just say yes I have the perfect system and implement it. So you take what you have and you try to solve problems as you go, and that’s just what society is. Some societies have managed to survive thousands of years, some much much less.
Hold on a minute. There’s WAAY to much respectful dialogue and meaningful discourse going on here! Where’s the mudslinging and name-calling? What did yall do with Non-Moto!
Seriously, outstanding dialogue, gentlemen.
I clearly see that...I understand the consequences...I'm honestly just tired of war, you know what I mean? Seeing/hearing about this stuff just gets old...There has to be a better way to go about this that blowing up buildings and killing people, right?
It’s not about perfection. It’s about providing the opportunity and space to cultivate an environment dedicated to sustainable experimentation which aims to create a society based on equality rather than exploitation. Or at the very least not being antagonistic towards this ideal. It is a willingness to try.
What we have right now is an environment cultivated to providing the proving grounds for a society based on exploitation, and no amount of reforming can change this fundamental aspect.
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