The "Scoop"..................tire

Yes. Tons of riders have stated that it's because the start is ripped so deep that a scoop is needed for a good start. and a good start is so important that they rather sacrifice around the rest of the track for a better start. 

When did the first knobby tires show up on motorcycles?  1940's?     If only they had cried a little harder at the time, maybe they could have stopped them!

Tomac ran it in SMX. Texas I want to say? 

I found it interesting listening to Davey on Title 24 with RV. They give them starting grates, let them use scoop tires, starting devices, ecu maps but then they leave the ruts in front of the gates? It doesn't make any damned sense to me. If you are going to allow all that other stuff you might as well groom in front of the gates imho. Personally, I think the grates, starting devices and scoop tires should not be allowed. 

Lars stated that the knobby might have been better for the track but with the grates the scoop is so much better off the start you can not run anything else

The only issue is why riders aren't using it. It's just a tire. It happens to work really, really well. Not using it won't create separation because everyone will then be on a different, but all the same, tire. 

The euros were using the Pirelli version for years before Dunlop made a decent variation, the MX14. The US (Dunlop) riders were killed on the starts pre MX14 if you look at previous MXDNs. 

I think that for the safety of the riders they should outlaw the scoop for all rounds barring Redbud, Millville and Southwick.  Especially with the trickle into amateurs.  Some c class dude running a scoop on his hard slick local track…not a good look overall.  

Can someone go get us some photos of a 1 Moto old scoop tyre off of these pro 450s? Michael?? 

I’m in the business of dirt bike tyres. And I find them very interesting. 
At an MXON a few years ago I was in a team tent and they fitted a brand new Pirelli MS32 on to a rider’s CRF450 for the last Moto. 
The track was sticky loam with a chalk/stone base. 

40 minutes later I was back at the tent looking again at the tyre. I was amazed at how just 35 minutes had destroyed it. 

I’d like to see one of these scoops after 35 minutes round Hangtown on Eli’s YZF!!

With all due respect, this is a horrible take.

KTM GP teams running the new Pirelli Mid Soft and not their scoop tyre on the weekend.

Bring back blue groove.

I just recommended a scoop tire to my bud in 50C for Mammoth. It's like a @#$ starting device; you can't not use it. 

What's ridiculous about running a tire that works good?

I'm fine with the scoop tire, but start devices and grates need to go. 

Start devices in amateur racing are the dumbest thing. If everyone has one then it doesn't make a difference and there's no point to having them. Just one more stupid thing I have to throw money at.

Dunlop seriously improved the MX14 vs the old MX12 which was just not very good. 

It grips as well as the Pirelli in sand, but seems to have a much wider window into harder soil. Prepped national tracks would rarely fall outside of this. 

Try it for yourself, they are excellent. 

I think the scoop really does it's work once they get into the ripped portion of the start straight. I would tend to believe that the standard knob gets better bite on the grate itself. I know there are manufacturers that have money invested in bringing things like the hole shot devices and scoop tires to market and they would take a financial hit if they were outlawed but I would really like to see the start go back to being more of a test of rider skill. I think it would really help weed out the pack going into the first turn.

One more thing that I think Davey brought up was how much more they tear the track up and of course the roost they throw. I swear he seemed like he would like to do something about some of this stuff, but I'll bet his hands are tied.

Isn’t one of the major complaints at the top level of our sport that the first 5 seconds dictate almost the entire following 40 minutes? Starts being so crucial, folks are picking a tire that is honestly the worst option for most tracks so that they can compete for the first 5 seconds of the race.  Not sure how it’s a horrible take to say let’s run knobbies 

My son started running the Pirelli Scoop tire in 21. He was trying to qualify for Loretta's in the B class. At the Regionals there are usually 2-3 riders that are clearly faster than the rest. Then there was about 15-20 riders capable of filling the last few spots to make it to the National. So starts were so crucial. That's when we starting using it. Much better than the Dunlop at the time. He got so used to using it, that he could make it work when it dried up later in the day too. But the starting line is the last to dry out on the track. He got to where he was using it on practice days also. Doesn't race that much anymore, but still uses it to practice on, Most of our tracks (3 Palms, Cycle Ranch, Underground) have a good amount of sand. 

 From aug 2022  can’t upload web page

So do you want Scoops outlawed for the safety of riders, because they are trickling into amateurs or because you think it would make for better racing?

You're moving the goal posts faster than I can keep up.

90%+ of riders here use the MX14. It’s simply a better tire. 

I think GH was a tipping point of sorts, that first moto was getting sketchy on half the track. On the other hand, why doesn't the broadcast do like other motorsports and report on it? 

At least for SX, I’ve heard the scoop tire is a major factor in how fast the track deteriorates.  There’s been a lot of talk about rider safety and track conditions lately.  Maybe the first solution is the tires.  Limit the depth of the tread and you solve half the problems with that.

Never left, 

Joking aside, I have a couple rides trying out an MX14 this year on mixed conditions, including where it turns rock hard in the afternoon and am surprised how well it still works in the harder stuff. Not ideal on blue groove, but by no means is it dangerous. 

MX/SX has ALWAYS been “startercross.” It has always been about the start. We even have a specific term for the first person to the first turn. So obviously there’s going to be a market for devices and methods to improve starting. I don’t get people who want to ban those things.

If the “problem” is that the start usually determines the winner or at least the top finishers, then maybe something else needs to change, because we’ve all seen instances of riders coming through the pack after a bad start, and early leaders going backwards. 

I believe this is all on Tony Cairoli.  When he came over a few years back for KTM, he was pulling holeshots left and right with the scoop and no Americans were running them.