Jessica

4/21/2019 11:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2019 11:47pm
Your remaining family will be without a partner/parent whilst you serve time.
4/21/2019 11:57pm
What if Hitler wasnt on the train, but in fact your daughter was going to grow up to be the next Hitler?

Do y'all still pull the lever?
3
hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
4/22/2019 8:24am
borg wrote:
Pull the switch, hurry to the bridge to watch the carnage. Go back and rape the girl and then put the switch back so the next...
Pull the switch, hurry to the bridge to watch the carnage. Go back and rape the girl and then put the switch back so the next train hits her.

That's what my god wants me to do.
plowboy wrote:
Lol...I said there were no right or wrong answers...but I was wrong.
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
borg
Posts
7049
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
4/22/2019 10:45am
borg wrote:
Pull the switch, hurry to the bridge to watch the carnage. Go back and rape the girl and then put the switch back so the next...
Pull the switch, hurry to the bridge to watch the carnage. Go back and rape the girl and then put the switch back so the next train hits her.

That's what my god wants me to do.
plowboy wrote:
Lol...I said there were no right or wrong answers...but I was wrong.
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got my point. It's a huge question and I have yet to see a debate, even among the most knowledgeable, that ever changed anyone's mind.

There was another study among college students that asked the question: if your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would it be? Then variations were added such as the stranger being a young child vs a criminal and so on. All I can remember is that the answers were very interesting.

The Shop

4/22/2019 10:49am
You're putting her in front of the rest of the family, you may be inside for life.
You've also ruined the lives off 500 families.

With the benefit of hindsight sacrificing Jessica would most likely be the best option. However, doing so in the moment might prove impossible.

Who the fuck asked this stupid question! Blink

hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
4/22/2019 10:49am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2019 10:52am
plowboy wrote:
Lol...I said there were no right or wrong answers...but I was wrong.
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
borg wrote:
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got...
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got my point. It's a huge question and I have yet to see a debate, even among the most knowledgeable, that ever changed anyone's mind.

There was another study among college students that asked the question: if your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would it be? Then variations were added such as the stranger being a young child vs a criminal and so on. All I can remember is that the answers were very interesting.

Frank Turek has some good insight to the moral debate. Check him out sometime if you get a chance. He once debated Christoper Hitchens, think its on youtube somewhere to give both sides of the perspective.
4/22/2019 10:51am
plowboy wrote:
Lol...I said there were no right or wrong answers...but I was wrong.
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
borg wrote:
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got...
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got my point. It's a huge question and I have yet to see a debate, even among the most knowledgeable, that ever changed anyone's mind.

There was another study among college students that asked the question: if your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would it be? Then variations were added such as the stranger being a young child vs a criminal and so on. All I can remember is that the answers were very interesting.

Dog vs stranger?

I save my dog without regret or hesitation.
3
early
Posts
10103
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
4/22/2019 11:16am
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
Why do most animals care for their young, refrain from killing their own kind for food, and some mate for life? Are they taught a moral conciousness or is it inherent?
4/22/2019 11:27am
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
borg wrote:
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got...
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got my point. It's a huge question and I have yet to see a debate, even among the most knowledgeable, that ever changed anyone's mind.

There was another study among college students that asked the question: if your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would it be? Then variations were added such as the stranger being a young child vs a criminal and so on. All I can remember is that the answers were very interesting.

Dog vs stranger?

I save my dog without regret or hesitation.
That's an easy one....even if it was a stranger and their dog!
borg
Posts
7049
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
4/22/2019 11:28am
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
borg wrote:
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got...
Good post. If your questions are pursued, it will more than likely end up in a taboo subject on this forum. But, I'm glad you got my point. It's a huge question and I have yet to see a debate, even among the most knowledgeable, that ever changed anyone's mind.

There was another study among college students that asked the question: if your dog and a stranger were drowning, and you could only save one, which would it be? Then variations were added such as the stranger being a young child vs a criminal and so on. All I can remember is that the answers were very interesting.

hard2kill wrote:
Frank Turek has some good insight to the moral debate. Check him out sometime if you get a chance. He once debated Christoper Hitchens, think its...
Frank Turek has some good insight to the moral debate. Check him out sometime if you get a chance. He once debated Christoper Hitchens, think its on youtube somewhere to give both sides of the perspective.
Yes Turek is good, his only problem is that he had to debate Hitchens. I've seen many, many debates with Hitchens vs quite a few religious scholars. Sam Harris too.
KennyT
Posts
4413
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
4/22/2019 12:29pm
Unrelated to the train story but since you guys brought god up I thought I’d share this story from my Easter Sunday Harley ride.

So I’m heading up I-5 into San Clemente around noon. Massive traffic jam, 5 mph for 10 miles or so. I figured a wreck ahead. Nope ...it was Jesus. Full white robe, long hair and facial hair.

On the overpass is Jesus holding a huge fucking cross! That wasn’t the problem. 2 hipster looking dudes were n his face screaming at him and had there fingers wagging in his face. Of course Jesus was just standing there taking their shit. I wish to Hell he would have knocked them out with his cross?
So that was what backed up interstate 5 on Easter Sunday. Only in So Cal can you see this shit
KennyT
Posts
4413
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
4/22/2019 12:35pm
Last time I heard this is was 5 strangers vs 1 Jessica which made it a bit harder but, with 500 peoples lives at stakes... [b]Do...
Last time I heard this is was 5 strangers vs 1 Jessica which made it a bit harder but, with 500 peoples lives at stakes...

Do you do nothing...sacrifice Jessica for the 500?
Of course.

What if Hitler was on that train?
Is he already evil at this point cause if he wasn't, then no, but if he was it means he's probably surrounded by 499 Nazi's and that's a pretty easy decision.

What if Jessica was your daughter?
Sorry Jessica.
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell me to save the 500, but being the father of a daughter I must say I’d most likely opt to save her. Is that wrong? Yes it is, but I feel it would be the choice I’d make
mx12boy
Posts
150
Joined
12/2/2014
Location
Reno, NV, USA
Fantasy
4/22/2019 1:12pm
I am not going to say what is right or wrong in that situation with Jessica. Since I had a front row seat hitting a Jessica with a train I was a Conductor on. She ran right in front of us trying to save her stupid ass dog. She had someone looking out for her and she survived. She was really messed up though. This question has really been bugging me.
hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
4/22/2019 1:37pm
hard2kill wrote:
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing...
I think a better question is how is it that we all know borgs answer is wrong? Where do the moral absolutes come from? Anybody willing to say its not wrong?
early wrote:
Why do most animals care for their young, refrain from killing their own kind for food, and some mate for life? Are they taught a moral...
Why do most animals care for their young, refrain from killing their own kind for food, and some mate for life? Are they taught a moral conciousness or is it inherent?
I would say that they were created (or cursed) with those instincts. The same as us. Yet i am not sure i would say that the (animals) know morality in the same way that humans do. More simple i would suggest they understand love but perhaps not morality (good and evil)???

Good question what are you thoughts?
akillerwombat
Posts
3211
Joined
10/16/2013
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
4/22/2019 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2019 2:09pm
KennyT wrote:
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell...
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell me to save the 500, but being the father of a daughter I must say I’d most likely opt to save her. Is that wrong? Yes it is, but I feel it would be the choice I’d make
I don't have any children – so I know I can't relate fully to the exercise and I'll be the first to admit it – but we did experience a miscarriage a few years ago... and again, I don't have any children and a miscarriage isn't anywhere near the same as losing a living child that you've raised, but combine that experience with the death of my brother at 17 (he was 13) and stir it with the idea of loosing any of my nieces / nephews (all 7 of them are between the ages of 6 months and 4 years) and I still come to the same conclusion that I would have to take the loss of a single child knowing it would save 500 other children. The pain would be unimaginable, but, knowing if I and my better half can spare 1000's of other people pain (the people on the train, their parents, their children, their siblings, their families) at the expense of our own... yeah.

I am in no way saying it's as simple as I'm attempting to state or that it is a heartless decision, but, I believe that if I were in a position to save your child, hard2kills, mx12boy's, green's, borg's, early's, jabroni's, agn5009's, newmanns, Motomo's, and 490 other children on that train at the expense of my own.... I would have to try my best to save those 500 other kids.

That said – I hope my future child never reads this. Haha. Or they do and understand where I was trying to come from.


Sidenote; I'd be super curious to hear what Jessica's response to this situation would be? Would she give her life voluntarily to save 500 others? My brother died attempting to save the lives of 15 other kids on a school field trip, well, 15 other kids and a dog. I still think about him daily and the singular fact that he gave his life to give the others theirs is the only thing silver lining I can find on that cloud.
1
KennyT
Posts
4413
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
4/22/2019 2:37pm
KennyT wrote:
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell...
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell me to save the 500, but being the father of a daughter I must say I’d most likely opt to save her. Is that wrong? Yes it is, but I feel it would be the choice I’d make
I don't have any children – so I know I can't relate fully to the exercise and I'll be the first to admit it – but...
I don't have any children – so I know I can't relate fully to the exercise and I'll be the first to admit it – but we did experience a miscarriage a few years ago... and again, I don't have any children and a miscarriage isn't anywhere near the same as losing a living child that you've raised, but combine that experience with the death of my brother at 17 (he was 13) and stir it with the idea of loosing any of my nieces / nephews (all 7 of them are between the ages of 6 months and 4 years) and I still come to the same conclusion that I would have to take the loss of a single child knowing it would save 500 other children. The pain would be unimaginable, but, knowing if I and my better half can spare 1000's of other people pain (the people on the train, their parents, their children, their siblings, their families) at the expense of our own... yeah.

I am in no way saying it's as simple as I'm attempting to state or that it is a heartless decision, but, I believe that if I were in a position to save your child, hard2kills, mx12boy's, green's, borg's, early's, jabroni's, agn5009's, newmanns, Motomo's, and 490 other children on that train at the expense of my own.... I would have to try my best to save those 500 other kids.

That said – I hope my future child never reads this. Haha. Or they do and understand where I was trying to come from.


Sidenote; I'd be super curious to hear what Jessica's response to this situation would be? Would she give her life voluntarily to save 500 others? My brother died attempting to save the lives of 15 other kids on a school field trip, well, 15 other kids and a dog. I still think about him daily and the singular fact that he gave his life to give the others theirs is the only thing silver lining I can find on that cloud.
I would think Jessica, like most any other human, would choose to sacrifice their own life for saving the others.

Sorry to hear about your brother (and the miscarriage) Holy shit...that must have been devastating for your family. Sounds like he died a hero ❤️
1
navalseabee
Posts
1086
Joined
5/5/2011
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
4/22/2019 2:42pm
Do Nothing: Yes

Hitler on board: Interesting question; pre or post WW2 i.e. do you know the horrors committed under his rule, and could this train accident stop them.

-You dont know/already happened: Save the 500, Hilter will get his in time.
-You do know and could prevent them: Save Jessica and millions of other people along with her.
-You do know and couldn't prevent them: Train full of Nazi d-bags- Save jessica
Train full of good humans- Let jessica die

Jessica is my kid: Cant say unbiased, i do not have children nor want them therefore i say save the 500.

Im also saving the stranger over my dog. I love my dog to death, but a human life is more important to me than any animal. My dog can be replaced, that stranger is someones kid/dad/mom/etc and that cannot be replaced.


Falcon
Posts
12602
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/22/2019 2:56pm
Your remaining family will be without a partner/parent whilst you serve time.
Completely, utterly worth it. I'm saving my kid, no matter how irrational it may be, how many other families have to suffer, or what my own consequences will be.

And if I were the father of one of the kids on that train, I'd look at the guy who saved his daughter and say, "I understand."
1
APLMAN99
Posts
12910
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
4/22/2019 3:47pm
plowboy wrote:
This is a moral/philosophical question. You are standing by the train tracks. You see 10 year old Jessica is trapped in the tracks as a train...
This is a moral/philosophical question.

You are standing by the train tracks. You see 10 year old Jessica is trapped in the tracks as a train with 500 passengers is coming toward her. You can't reach her in time to free her before the train hits her. You notice a lever in front of you that will switch the train to a different track but that track leads to a bridge that is out.

Do you do nothing...sacrifice Jessica for the 500?

What if Hitler was on that train?

What if Jessica was your daughter?

No right or wrong answers...just answers based on perspective.
This was just in a movie I watched, can't think of what it was now though....
4/22/2019 9:39pm
Your remaining family will be without a partner/parent whilst you serve time.
Falcon wrote:
Completely, utterly worth it. I'm saving my kid, no matter how irrational it may be, how many other families have to suffer, or what my own...
Completely, utterly worth it. I'm saving my kid, no matter how irrational it may be, how many other families have to suffer, or what my own consequences will be.

And if I were the father of one of the kids on that train, I'd look at the guy who saved his daughter and say, "I understand."
Not really irrational. Think many people placed in this position would react the same way based natural human instinct. The repercussions from those actions will most likely be far worse than sacrificing 'Jessica'.

I. e
Whilst Jessica's father was incarcerated her new stepfather turned out to be a complete asshole causing Jessica and her mother to turn to substance abuse and sell themselves to fund their addiction. The families of 102 train wreck victims were also severely affected by the deaths of their loved ones to various degrees including multiple homicide as one of the teenagers sunk into severe depression after the loss of their parents and killed his new Foster family.

Jessica's father couldn't handle his actions that day and at a later date threw himself off the very bridge which cost the lives of the 500. This is before he was sentenced.

Or he was killed by one of the wreck victims family members.
And so on.... .

4/23/2019 12:09am
Yeah, threads a load of gash. I was bored so spouted a load more gash.Blink
hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
4/23/2019 6:27am
I don't have any children – so I know I can't relate fully to the exercise and I'll be the first to admit it – but...
I don't have any children – so I know I can't relate fully to the exercise and I'll be the first to admit it – but we did experience a miscarriage a few years ago... and again, I don't have any children and a miscarriage isn't anywhere near the same as losing a living child that you've raised, but combine that experience with the death of my brother at 17 (he was 13) and stir it with the idea of loosing any of my nieces / nephews (all 7 of them are between the ages of 6 months and 4 years) and I still come to the same conclusion that I would have to take the loss of a single child knowing it would save 500 other children. The pain would be unimaginable, but, knowing if I and my better half can spare 1000's of other people pain (the people on the train, their parents, their children, their siblings, their families) at the expense of our own... yeah.

I am in no way saying it's as simple as I'm attempting to state or that it is a heartless decision, but, I believe that if I were in a position to save your child, hard2kills, mx12boy's, green's, borg's, early's, jabroni's, agn5009's, newmanns, Motomo's, and 490 other children on that train at the expense of my own.... I would have to try my best to save those 500 other kids.

That said – I hope my future child never reads this. Haha. Or they do and understand where I was trying to come from.


Sidenote; I'd be super curious to hear what Jessica's response to this situation would be? Would she give her life voluntarily to save 500 others? My brother died attempting to save the lives of 15 other kids on a school field trip, well, 15 other kids and a dog. I still think about him daily and the singular fact that he gave his life to give the others theirs is the only thing silver lining I can find on that cloud.
Good post wombat. Sorry about the miscarriage and loss of your brother. Seems i have heard a story about a Father coming to the same decision as you somewhere. Pretty awesome extension of Grace towards those 500 people.

I believe we can always rest in our decisions-circumstances (right or wrong) knowing that it is all working together for the good in some grand way.
Gworm
Posts
2843
Joined
4/5/2017
Location
Monett, MO, USA
4/23/2019 8:07am
What if Jessica’s twin sister was on the train?
akillerwombat
Posts
3211
Joined
10/16/2013
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
4/23/2019 8:10am
Gworm wrote:
What if Jessica’s twin sister was on the train?
What if Jessica wasn't the name of the girl... but the name of the train.
1
akillerwombat
Posts
3211
Joined
10/16/2013
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
4/23/2019 8:11am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2019 8:13am
KennyT wrote:
I would think Jessica, like most any other human, would choose to sacrifice their own life for saving the others. Sorry to hear about your brother...
I would think Jessica, like most any other human, would choose to sacrifice their own life for saving the others.

Sorry to hear about your brother (and the miscarriage) Holy shit...that must have been devastating for your family. Sounds like he died a hero ❤️
Little dude set a hell of an example of how to be a good human.

I also felt like he died trying to save the dog; saving the other kids was a bi-product, haha.
1
Falcon
Posts
12602
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/23/2019 9:51am
Maybe with lots of time to think about it, a dad could convince himself to save the other 500 people. With a train bearing down on my kid, however, I'm going to admit I'd do the selfish thing and save my little girl. I know it probably seems wrong and I'd be distressed about it forever, but still... you love your kids more than you can even explain.

By the way, I'd step in front of that speeding train in less than a heartbeat if I knew it would save my kid, and I'd go to my grave a happy man.



hard2kill
Posts
374
Joined
9/8/2010
Location
Flag Pond, TN, USA
4/23/2019 12:02pm
Not trying to turn this thread into some kind of religious debate, the idea of the thread just keeps making me think of these verses so though i would share:

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
4/23/2019 12:50pm
Last time I heard this is was 5 strangers vs 1 Jessica which made it a bit harder but, with 500 peoples lives at stakes... [b]Do...
Last time I heard this is was 5 strangers vs 1 Jessica which made it a bit harder but, with 500 peoples lives at stakes...

Do you do nothing...sacrifice Jessica for the 500?
Of course.

What if Hitler was on that train?
Is he already evil at this point cause if he wasn't, then no, but if he was it means he's probably surrounded by 499 Nazi's and that's a pretty easy decision.

What if Jessica was your daughter?
Sorry Jessica.
KennyT wrote:
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell...
Curious if you have children Wombat? Anyone who hasn’t experienced being a parent would not offer the same answer as others. Of course logic would tell me to save the 500, but being the father of a daughter I must say I’d most likely opt to save her. Is that wrong? Yes it is, but I feel it would be the choice I’d make
At least you can admit it.

Most here admit to wanting to save their kid, but then try to justify it. It’s the illogical decision to save 1 versus 500. Yet few here are willing to admit it. They are openly ok with doing what is worse for society in this scenario.

Pretty much explains humans in general. Me first.

Not that there is anything evil about that. I appreciate the honesty.
spud
Posts
84
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newport, RI, USA
4/23/2019 3:55pm
This guy gets it. ?

Post a reply to: Jessica

The Latest