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Location
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Is anyone doing this already?
What the sport has now was established long before the digital age, and is obsolete IMO. The concept of allowing contestants to choose their own level of competition is comical. Likewise, the concept of a different class for every variety anyone can think of is seemingly benefitting the Organizers and the "Everybody gets a Trophy" crowd and chasing away the masses due to the timeframe.
Call me crazy (again) but I believe practice riders and riders that have strayed to other forms of competition, as well as current racers would enjoy a short day, full gates, elbow to elbow competition with riders their same speed. Track riders are already riding with different age riders and bike sizes and types.
In the Digital age, e-timing is reasonably priced. RFID readers and tags do the job currently for a variety of race types, where they are used for results, yet the class system has remained mostly the same.
NO CLASS Racing:
*Practice/Qualifying is voluntarily divided into estimated speed RIDE GROUPS where lap times are compiled, similar to open practice days with traditional a A/B group, a Vet group, a Mini group, a Novice group etc. depending on the number of entries. In future events riders will generally know where they fit in.
*The Organizers look at the Overall results and ASSIGN riders to RIDE GROUPS as they see fit. Assume 100 riders, it could be 2 of 50, 3 of 33, 4 of 20 or even 40 group 1, 40 group 2 and 20 Group 3. The uncertainty of how the classes are split basically eliminates SANDBAGGING since you don't know how the classes will be cut up. The qualifying could also be worth 1 point per position in an Olympic scoring system to act as a points paying session.
*RIDE GROUPS allow greater flexibility in how the event is run, since time is freed up without multiple classes.
2-30 minute motos, 3-20 minute motos, 1-30, 1-20 and 1-10 minute moto or any other combination becomes possible. Everyone should get a minimum of 1 hour racing plus qualifying/practice time on the seat. The need for joining multiple classes to get enough riding time, and having to wait for the race order while they try to keep riders riding multiple classes from going back to back is eliminated.
The crazy part is putting this in front of Vital... Cuss and Discuss?
What the sport has now was established long before the digital age, and is obsolete IMO. The concept of allowing contestants to choose their own level of competition is comical. Likewise, the concept of a different class for every variety anyone can think of is seemingly benefitting the Organizers and the "Everybody gets a Trophy" crowd and chasing away the masses due to the timeframe.
Call me crazy (again) but I believe practice riders and riders that have strayed to other forms of competition, as well as current racers would enjoy a short day, full gates, elbow to elbow competition with riders their same speed. Track riders are already riding with different age riders and bike sizes and types.
In the Digital age, e-timing is reasonably priced. RFID readers and tags do the job currently for a variety of race types, where they are used for results, yet the class system has remained mostly the same.
NO CLASS Racing:
*Practice/Qualifying is voluntarily divided into estimated speed RIDE GROUPS where lap times are compiled, similar to open practice days with traditional a A/B group, a Vet group, a Mini group, a Novice group etc. depending on the number of entries. In future events riders will generally know where they fit in.
*The Organizers look at the Overall results and ASSIGN riders to RIDE GROUPS as they see fit. Assume 100 riders, it could be 2 of 50, 3 of 33, 4 of 20 or even 40 group 1, 40 group 2 and 20 Group 3. The uncertainty of how the classes are split basically eliminates SANDBAGGING since you don't know how the classes will be cut up. The qualifying could also be worth 1 point per position in an Olympic scoring system to act as a points paying session.
*RIDE GROUPS allow greater flexibility in how the event is run, since time is freed up without multiple classes.
2-30 minute motos, 3-20 minute motos, 1-30, 1-20 and 1-10 minute moto or any other combination becomes possible. Everyone should get a minimum of 1 hour racing plus qualifying/practice time on the seat. The need for joining multiple classes to get enough riding time, and having to wait for the race order while they try to keep riders riding multiple classes from going back to back is eliminated.
The crazy part is putting this in front of Vital... Cuss and Discuss?
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There is one problem. You will have people sand bag their practice or qualifying time to get in the class they want and then tear it up once it’s race time. It’s almost impossible to stop sandbagging.
The actual promoters are the ones that can be the best deterrent. They see a guy in the race that is sandbagging, no points for you in the 1st Moto and you’re bumped up to the next class for Moto 2. If they all started doing that, it would help. There is a promoter here in NC that does that. He doesn’t play around with sandbagging.
*The Organizers look at the Overall results and ASSIGN riders to RIDE GROUPS as they see fit. Assume 100 riders, it could be 2 of 50, 3 of 33, 4 of 20 or even 40 group 1, 40 group 2 and 20 Group 3. The uncertainty of how the classes are split basically eliminates SANDBAGGING since you don't know how the classes will be cut up. The qualifying could also be worth 1 point per position in an Olympic scoring system to act as a points paying session
Sandbagging will always be a problem but it does atleast make it more difficult than just signing up to race the class you know you can win.
I don't get the sandbagging thing though, i don't race anymore but when i did there was nothing worse than being out there by myself, the winner way out in front, the back markers way behind and me just chilling in the middle with nobody near me. I'd be down for a class structure that put me next to 5 guys all within a second of me, whether or not they were 18 yrs old, 45 yrs old, riding a 450 or a 150. But i always raced for fun not trophys so i guess there is that.
Would you expect all the local level racers have the extra few hundred at sign up to rent said transponders? For some, that would be a huge hit if you lost it which and didn't get your deposit back.
There was a track near Houston that classed riders by lap times. Kind of similar to what you’re talking about. I remember riders seemed to like it from feedback I got. It was also an effort to curb sandbagging.
I would be game to try it.
There is no way to stop sandbagging, bummer but true.
Awarding points for qualifying position would only work for the A class. It would basically be “luck of the draw” for whomever scored points in the slower classes.
Well, except for the Loretta wannabes who whined that it might screw up their precious RPI and someone might use it to protest them when they showed up in Tennessee to ride the C class.
In my opinion, racing has died off due to the time requirement for a day of racing. 48 classes, start at daylight, end at sundown, get a 4 lap first moto, 3 laps second moto, and wait all day to race. Blame it on the Loretta's class structure that promoters try to follow and trying to bleed 200 entries out of 75 actual riders that show up in order to break even.
Holland was similar when I raced there. Made for much better racing. I never understood the concept of having a handful of bikes at a gate, may aswell just be at a practice day.
I'm considering being a 1st time promoter, and definitely Outlaw. If others happen to read this and jump onboard, I would be happy to help Make Motocross Great Again and share the idea. I suspect most will not change, most promoters are willing to make as many classes as they can make profit from.
Pit Row
I actually think it would be a great idea if you get a bunch of guys who don't take it serious and aren't trying to go pro or get to Loretta's. Last time I raced I was so damn bored throughout the day waiting around and I realized that I have way more fun and ride time just hitting practice days. If guys were split up by actual speed, not class since that isn't very effective anymore, it would really make the day faster and racing guys who are actually your speed would be a lot more fun. It sucks to have 5 guys in 250C and 5 guys in 250B who are the same speed, but never race each other because of the class designation. Not to mention, some tracks you just gel with and others you just don't, so this approach would address that issue as well. I don't care about chasing points or any of that crap, I just want to race with guys my speed and have some fun battles.
I'll be the first to say you've got some ridiculous ideas, but if people really took this seriously and went out to RACE, not just collect a trophy and stroke their ego, I think it could work really well.
The RFID stickers are much like a toll tag, they are "passive" and have no battery or need for recharging. They are cheap (under $5 could buy 2-3 tags) and many consider them "disposable" at that price, although they last indefinitely.
They have a few drawbacks, they are not as consistent as the battery operated (10+ times more expensive) and require that the sticker "face" the receiver's which are placed at a slow corner to increase reliability.
I'd rather come 15th out of 30 in class #2, but i can bench race about how i was only 5 seconds behind 10th and was gaining on those guys in front of me if only there was another lap i would've had it for sure, and besides, they're all young bucks so they should be beating me. Those bullshit stories are much more fun to tell over a couple of beers anyways.
Good input on the qualifying points, likely effective for A class, and the random pick of the size of the gate for other classes should suffice without awarding points.
Your time statement couldn't be more true, and the operator of Spoaks Motopark has an even more dire story than that. At your local track Cycle Ranch, under previous mgmt., He and his father gave up on the 1st moto not being run at sunset and went home. The track switched operations to the night track and kept running til the wee hours of the morning, trying to qualify riders for the "Holy Grail" Loretta Lynn's. Small wonder that track had trouble.
Likely less than 1% who ever throw a leg over a dirt bike will ever make a penny from riding it. This sport is strange though, in that most never get that, and take it way too serious. We aren't playing checkers here, if you are into this sport you have a big heart and balls. The question for viability of this concept relies on pulling more riders in from other disciplines, and developing new hybrid racing styles incorporating many things like Endurocross and Scrambles and Grass track may also be a part of what is needed to attract new and old blood back to the track. Thanks for the comment.
I haven't had a chance to venture up to Spoaks yet, but it's on my list of "to do's"
As far as the Loretta's heros are concerned, they race so few local races I don't think they are really a factor anyway. It's mainly just a few mini-dads that have a bigger wallet than their...well, you know.
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