I know discussions on Vital can get out of hand when comparing riders, but in another thread the question was posed about Jett's winning percentage in motocross specifically the 450s vs. RC's. That piqued my interest so I started looking at the numbers and thought this was worth starting a discussion.
RC finished his AMA Pro Motocross career with an 80.3% overall outdoor win rate (102 wins in 127 starts). His premier-class outdoor record was even crazier: 76 wins in 88 starts (86.4%). He also had three perfect seasons (2002, 2004, 2005) and won the motocross championship 10 straight years. That's why RC became The GOAT.
Now look at Jett...
Jett's overall career outdoor win rate across all classes is 59.4% (38 wins in 64 starts), which on the surface isn't close. So, if we are looking at both classes in motocross combined I don't think it's a discussion.
Here's where things get interesting...
450 Motocross only:
- Jett Lawrence: 24 wins in 27 starts (89.0%)
- Ricky Carmichael: 76 wins in 88 starts (86.4%)
Jett also:
- Had a perfect rookie 450 season in 2023 (22-0 in motos)
- Has an 81% moto win rate in 450s
- Has 2x 250 titles and 2x 450 titles
So the question becomes: are we seeing the beginning of something that could actually challenge RC's legacy, or is it way too early?
RC was dominant over a full career and across multiple eras. Jett's efficiency in the 450 class is almost absurd, but longevity matters too.
If Jett stays healthy and keeps this pace up, do you think RC's GOAT status is actually under threat, or does Jett need another 5–7 years of dominance before this even becomes a real conversation?
Thoughts?
If my numbers are off let me know. I researched them but I could be off too.
I'm not the biggest RC fan, but as far as I know, he never lost an outdoor championship. That right there, puts him ahead of Jett.
I'm not the biggest RC fan, but as far as I know, he never wore a purse. That right there, puts him ahead of Jett.
It’s too late, RC never lost a title on top of that they were never even that close.
I'm not the biggest RC fan, but as far as I know, he never had a dad go by a silly nickname. That right there, puts him ahead of Jett.
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RC didn’t lose a premier class title or you mean on 125s as well?
Jett has only lost the one title in the premier class due to injury
RC had 10 straight outdoor titles from his rookie year to when he retired, RC never lost in an outdoor season that he competed in.
Jett's not there yet, obviously, but even RC calls him a generational talent. He has the talent and drive to surpass RC, but he'll need to maintain his pace/win percentages over a number of years to accomplish that task. I think this coming MX season, coming off a serious injury and into a stacked field, will tell us a lot about Jett's future. But for now, I would never bet him against him in 450MX.
Good christ, this is not even a discussion. Let's talk in 5 years, Jett can't even compile consecutive 450 SX/MX seasons yet without injury, so let's just stop this for now. No mistake Jett is brilliant, but this discussion is for another day in the future. RC is to be lauded not just for winning, but also dependability.
At first I thought here we go...someone might finally put Ricky's legendary status of being the goat in jeopardy. Not anymore...skill wise other guys were better than RC...but that guy had something we may never see again. And considering he went through Mc, Stew and Chad and never got dethroned... stud
As mentioned Jett has a LONG ways to go.
RC won 3 straight 125 titles and then 7 straight 250/450 titles. And did it on two strokes, four strokes and different brands. Crazy how dominant he was outdoors. Add in 5 SX 250/450 titles, 1 125 sx title and then two perfect seasons and one more season where he won all the overalls.
RC was a freak winning every race even racings with a broken ankle to finish a season (undefeated)
If anyone wants to be in the same discussion as RC, they need to get close to this:
7 time AMA MX Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)
5 time AMA Supercross Champion (2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)
3 time AMA 125 Champion (1997, 1998, 1999)
2 perfect 24-0 seasons (2002, 2004)
15 AMA titles (all -time record)
150 AMA wins (all-time record)
Never lost an outdoor title he fully competed in. Won every race overall in the 6 outdoor races he competed in while retired in 2007. Lapped entire field in 2006 at the Millville National. Won 22 of 24 motos in 2005.
Becuase Ricky has been retired since 2007, I think people forget just how great RC was and how hard his records will be to beat. He was unstoppable and that is not an overstatement. Jett has a long ways to go.
Windham was a rider in the 90’s like Jett is today. Beautiful to watch, in control, a thinking man’s racer. How did he do against RC ? NOBODY had the determination he did, many guys more beautiful to watch flowing over a track, and that list includes Jett, but 90% of the time Ricky was cashing the checks !
Win percent is what you do when you don’t have the numbers. 15 titles and 150 wins is the bar.
A common nickname in Australia.
The only thing you can do worse in Australia than complain about the nickname that people have given you (Absolutely guarantees it “sticks”) is try to give yourself one!
“Hi, I’m Skypig, people call me “Maverick”, cause I’m like “Topgun” around here!”
“OK, pleased to meet you………Goose!”
I'm not the biggest RC fan, but as far as I know, the Hunter Brothers have got a lot of wood to chop. That right there, puts him ahead of Jett.
Pit Row
OPs last statement is wrong also, all three of stews 125 losses where mechanical
Ah dang! Which one did I miss? Do you know which one Ringo? My old age is catching up to me!
Btw, in my opinion and fact RC is undoubtedly the GOAT. Someone had posted in another thread about Jett's win percentage making an argument and I went down the rabbit hole. I made the thread so people can understand the sustained dominance that RC had. Jett is a phenomenal talent for sure but I don't think he nor anyone else is going to ever get close to Carmichael.
High point 02 he crushed a radiator
I think the head went at Southwick 02
Clutch failure after his first turn pile up red bud 04, but you could argue maybe he doesn’t get back to first so you aren’t totally wrong! I’m just on the opposite side is all!
162 wins.
if you include Jett’s missed races and seasons it’s not even close. RC is the GOAT for a reason.
There’s a recent trend of guys clinging to Jett’s win percentages and migrating away from raw stats/records. The lesson here—never preemptively crown goats.
While RC’s goat status is bolstered by his win percentages, it has very little to do with them and it has everything to do with his raw numbers accumulated over consecutive years. RC was only 26 during his last full season as a pro. The amount of championships and wins that he put up by that point is unthinkable.
RV also never lost a premier outdoor title he entered!
And RC wanted to retire at the end of 04. That would be like Jett retiring at the end of next year
Then Ricky ended up retiring in 2006 which would be like Jett retiring end of next season and doing a partial schedule in 2028. How wild is that to think about?
Yes he did. He raced Glen Helen and Hangtown in 2009 and finished 24th overall for the season.
RC is the GOAT for a good reason.
For ten straight seasons, RC would grab a championship like a pitbull and shake it till the first place trophy fell out.
UNREAL
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