Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes

MX7MX
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1/14/2011 11:49pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2011 11:58pm
MX7MX wrote:
Great post FTE! The only problem I see with this whole topic is that it will NEVER be completely even. A 250T is not fair racing...
Great post FTE! The only problem I see with this whole topic is that it will NEVER be completely even. A 250T is not fair racing with 450F's. However, a 250T is not fair racing against a 250F.

People only see the numbers being the same, or the displacement as the end all be all. Thats like my Vette with a procharger being equal to a bone stock vette simply because the displacement is the same. However, HOW they make they power is different.

FTE, your posts are about as unbiased as they come. Great job!
newmann wrote:
Yeah, no doubt about it, a 450 against a 250 just isn't fair nor is a 250 against a 125. Great post MX7MX! Good job!Wink
newmann, i concur sir! I honestly just don't know the answer. To make it even where both bikes were equal, where both sides would be happy I just don't think can ever happen cc for cc. What I like most about things right now, or even back when it was all strokers was that everyone raced the same bikes, there was no disparity except for the factory built stuff versus privateer bikes. So, the answer that I would like to see come about, is one where both the 4 stroke faithful and the 2 stroke faithful can get along great. I just don't know what that answer is, but I'm certainly open to suggestions even if sometimes I come across as a dick!
SwapperMX
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1/15/2011 3:04am
wpark89 wrote:
My hypothetical Racer X 2 stroke Rookie Cup 4 races. 2 at a West Coast National. 2 at a East Coast National. 1 East Champion, 1...
My hypothetical Racer X 2 stroke Rookie Cup

4 races. 2 at a West Coast National. 2 at a East Coast National.

1 East Champion, 1 West. I think initially running a nation wide 6 race series is too much to bite off. Winners get a full page picture and interview in the mag…benefiting sponsors.

They should run on non WMA weekends and fill their time slot.

The cc limit is 144. (otherwise everyone’s going to cheat and cause complications) It would be dumb to exclude KTM’s or any of the Japanese 125’s that have been overbored. Absolutely drop the homologation rule.

Can we guarantee 30 upper level rider capable of putting on a show? It has to look professional. The gate needs to be close to full. It can’t be Novice riders on 10 year old bikes.

WMA riders should be allowed to compete (given of course that they are on a 2 stroke) I don’t know if setting a certain age limit should be in effect either. Try to keep it as broad as possible to encourage participation. How about anyone who has ever scored National or SX points or made a main can’t compete.

Can we get sponsors to support it? Would the manufactures support it? Would Yamaha, KTM, or Husky commit to having a few riders on their machines at each event? If they feel there is potential to make money they will. How many 3 year old 4 strokes do they have to have sitting on their dealers floors before they decide….hmmmmm……maybe we need to reevaluate.
Some very good ideas in this post for the 125cc cup. Really got my mind going a bit. Imagine some Pro Circuit KX125's dug up to go racing on. I wonder what other little surprises might show up to the start line. I dont think that there would be a problem filling the gate with the support that has been mentioned just on this website. Also, the schoolboy class seems full of talent anyway, and what mini dad wouldn't want his son/daughter competing in front of big crowds and also the watchful eye of all the top team owners. Cant wait to hear of updates for this 125cc series.
FreshTopEnd
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1/15/2011 7:44am
CamP wrote:
Egos and greed are going to saw off the limb that this sport is standing on.
HOGIE888 wrote:
CamP wrote: Egos and greed are going to saw off the limb that this sport is standing on.


read....DC and MX Sports.......
What's your reasoning for that?
HOGIE888
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1/15/2011 8:40am
CamP wrote:
Egos and greed are going to saw off the limb that this sport is standing on.
HOGIE888 wrote:
CamP wrote: Egos and greed are going to saw off the limb that this sport is standing on.


read....DC and MX Sports.......
What's your reasoning for that?
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the sport that we all love.(read...pressure the OEM's for affordable bikes that don't granade and cost buko bucks to rebuid). Instead, he sits back and counts his millions of $$$$$ that he makes off of the riders

The Shop

hellion
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1/15/2011 9:05am
I'm pretty sure DC is not raking in million off the riders. But I do agree that there is a huge disconnect between the average rider and the cost of modifying and running a 250f at any level.
DC has a fear that the OEM's will run away. They won't. But if by some crazy chance they did they would leave a vacuum that will be filled quickly. Moto is not like road racing where this did happen. Most moto fans ride and race and support the industry. Most road racing fans have never put a wheel on the track in anger. They might buy an issue of Cycle News once in a while, and maybe a street bike once every 5 to 10 years. That is far removed from the involvement of the fans in Moto.
gaines1016
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1/15/2011 10:21am
HOGIE888 wrote:
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the...
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the sport that we all love.(read...pressure the OEM's for affordable bikes that don't granade and cost buko bucks to rebuid). Instead, he sits back and counts his millions of $$$$$ that he makes off of the riders
please stop talking if you have zero idea of what the hell is going. seriously these are the types of posts that make the whole "bring back two stroke" movement so hard to get on board with.
FreshTopEnd
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1/15/2011 10:47am
HOGIE888 wrote:
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the...
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the sport that we all love.(read...pressure the OEM's for affordable bikes that don't granade and cost buko bucks to rebuid). Instead, he sits back and counts his millions of $$$$$ that he makes off of the riders
First, how do you know he's not lobbying for that?

Second, what fantasy world do some of you guys live in? What power/leverage does he have to coerce manufacturers to build or not build any particular kind of bike, or to price them and their parts affordably?

While you're at it, DC, make Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa, etc start producing bikes again.

What power or leverage does he have to coerce aftermarket shops from hopping up bikes and consumers from paying their money for that?

He can change rules for the series he has control over, that's it. No one has to participate in those series, either at the pro level or amateur.

The rules people want are in the amateurs. In the pros, it was one of the first issues that got broached and he has told you most of the OEMs told him to pound sand.

Have people forgotten the state of things by the time the AMA had screwed the nationals into the toilet and decided to sell them ~ last minute TV deals, no series sponsor, OEM's pulling team resources, major private teams pulling out, all shifting resources to an SX series run by an entirely different set of people, with the FIM and another outdoor series in the wings disparaging US outdoor racing at every turn and today still doing all they can to undermine it. All non-profits, no doubt, though, unlike that money grubbing bastard DC.

It's easy on this side of the door to say the OEM's won't walk. It's easy to say they'll make additional models of bikes, in a depressed economy, just because DC changes the rules. It doesn't make it so, and DC is the only one who has posted here who had to decide whether they meant what they said. They sell orders of magnitude more street bikes than MX bikes, and road racing lost resources and had OEM's walk.

hellion
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1/15/2011 11:54am
The road racer market has been dead since Cruisers took over anyhow. The OEM's had nothing to gain in road racing anymore. It a spectator sport ( a boring one at that ) and Moto is a participation sport. Well, if things keep going the was they are it will be a spectator sport too.
Big deal if the OEMs walk. What do we really lose. PC, Geico, San Manuel, 22 all seem to do fine. Some like JGR and 22 do it with little or no help from the OEM's. Who cares? Let them go if they don't care about the amatuers, it's them after all who this whole thing is built on. Hopefully they will still be able to afford this sport ten years from now.
gaines1016
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1/15/2011 12:57pm
hellion wrote:
The road racer market has been dead since Cruisers took over anyhow. The OEM's had nothing to gain in road racing anymore. It a spectator sport...
The road racer market has been dead since Cruisers took over anyhow. The OEM's had nothing to gain in road racing anymore. It a spectator sport ( a boring one at that ) and Moto is a participation sport. Well, if things keep going the was they are it will be a spectator sport too.
Big deal if the OEMs walk. What do we really lose. PC, Geico, San Manuel, 22 all seem to do fine. Some like JGR and 22 do it with little or no help from the OEM's. Who cares? Let them go if they don't care about the amatuers, it's them after all who this whole thing is built on. Hopefully they will still be able to afford this sport ten years from now.
i know a lot more guys who own sport bikes then dirtbikes. and if you think the bikes winning on sudays arent what street guys are buying then you are wrong. the oems arent participating in road racing to sell bikes to road racers. they are there to sell bikes to spectators who want to ride on the street and claim to all their buddies that they have the same bike that so and so won on last weekend. So i would say the oems still have plenty to gain from their participation/advertising in road racing.

this is the fundamental difference between these two types of racing.

and to say that the pro ranks would not suffer if all big 4 manf. picked up and walked out tomorrow then i would disagree with you. i also fail to see how giving the oems the finger in pro racing would help amateur racing flourish.
hellion
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1/15/2011 1:56pm
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks.
To hear that there are a lot of people riding road rockets where you are is good. I'm surprised though, as it seems here there are very few in comparison with the cruiser and touring bikes. Plus, have you ever seen the attendance at a road race. It's nothing compared to Moto or SX, unless you are talking MotoGP. I guess everything needs to be looked at from all angles. But the bottom line for me still is that allowing two strokes a level playing field or including them with a new 125 only class can only help in a time when our sport is seeing decreased numbers every year.
gaines1016
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1/15/2011 2:17pm
hellion wrote:
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks...
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks.
To hear that there are a lot of people riding road rockets where you are is good. I'm surprised though, as it seems here there are very few in comparison with the cruiser and touring bikes. Plus, have you ever seen the attendance at a road race. It's nothing compared to Moto or SX, unless you are talking MotoGP. I guess everything needs to be looked at from all angles. But the bottom line for me still is that allowing two strokes a level playing field or including them with a new 125 only class can only help in a time when our sport is seeing decreased numbers every year.
i also think the idea of adding a 125 class at select rounds could be cool.

in all of these discussions though i sometimes wonder if the 2stroke guys are remembering the cost of bikes from their hay day and not the current pricing. msrp on a 2011 yamaha 125 is 6250. that is nothing to sneeze at, and quite a bit more then most kids have in their piggybanks.

JJO741
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Fantasy
1/15/2011 2:20pm
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
1/15/2011 2:25pm
JJO741 wrote:
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
Smile
1/15/2011 2:54pm
JJO741 wrote:
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
more fun than any bike you will ever own
FreshTopEnd
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1/15/2011 3:20pm
JJO741 wrote:
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
Excellent! At least the thread accomplished something worthwhile. Laughing Could be a first.
mxb2
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1/15/2011 3:32pm
JJO741 wrote:
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
Excellent! At least the thread accomplished something worthwhile. Laughing Could be a first.
Yea honda, kawy and suzuki just started to remake the 2 stroke after reading this LOL!
CR250Rider
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1/15/2011 3:37pm
CR250Rider wrote:
[i][b]"A two stroke is just machine and I don't think it's apt to talk about fairness to two strokes. The fairness issue really is the issue...
"A two stroke is just machine and I don't think it's apt to talk about fairness to two strokes. The fairness issue really is the issue of what's fair in racing where there's a disparity of resources between one rider and another. "


YAMAHA YZ250 VERSUS YAMAHA YZ250F



Q: WHICH BIKE PRODUCES THE BEST LAP TIMES?

A: Although MXA had a wide range of test riders spend time on both bikes, we left all lap time testing to a single test rider. We picked a 20-something Intermediate test rider because he was old enough to have raced a 250cc two-stroke and yet not immune to the charms of a four-stroke.

When we examined his lap times, taken from actual races not hot laps, we weren’t surprised to discover that his laps times on both the two-stroke and four-stroke were almost identical. Read that again. His lap times were identical regardless of which bike he was on. Across the board, if an MXA test rider could turn in a 2:35 on the YZ250, he could back it up with a 2:35 on the YZ250F in the next moto.


source: MXA
Are we talking about intermediates who can buy and race two strokes, or professional racing and the 300 or so people who have deal with the...
Are we talking about intermediates who can buy and race two strokes, or professional racing and the 300 or so people who have deal with the pro rules? I thought it was the latter, especially on the fairness issue.

So what does that article have to do with that? My recollection is that it stated that it takes more skill to extract all of the power of a 250 smoker and that 250 bangers were easier for less skilled riders to go fast one.

My "fairness" point is that fairness is an human concept that relates to people, not an inanimate machine. It was in response to a question whether I thought the displacement rules were "fair" to two strokes. Let's keep the fairness notion focused where it belongs. Machines are an instrumentality, not the main point. If the issue is problems with fairness for professional privateers with limited resources, that's a lot bigger problem that "two stroke fairness." Changing the displacement rules to better suit two strokes may be a means to that end, but it's not an end in itself for the sake of the two stroke ethic.
"FreshTopEnd wrote: Are we talking about intermediates who can buy and race two strokes, or professional racing and the 300 or so people who have deal with the pro rules? I thought it was the latter, especially on the fairness issue. "


This is not about Pro racers, they race on unobtainium with huge budgets as is!


This is all about average folks like you and me who are racing on a shoe-string.

Again, MXA's point is that for %99 of us, we go just as fast on either bike.

Speed is equal... Cost is not ( between 2 and 4 stroke bikes )

high costs are killing the sport from the BOTTOM up. ( as well as noise )
Tiki
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1/15/2011 3:42pm
Interesting thread. No one really asks why Yamaha went to the 400 back in the 90's to begin with. Those in California at the time might figure it out, but it had less to do with the AMA and more to do with state laws. Yamaha just took advantage of the rule. Had the rule been like for like, Yamaha would have done it differently. Has anyone ever asked the Manufacturers why? Jody hasnt. If you look at MXA back in the 90's the story Jody was telling is completely different. Jody is a story teller, because that is what he is doing. I find it amazing that no one has breached this issue in any of the Magazines. Why are four strokes here?

In 1997 there was a rumor that Californians were going to have to leave the state to buy a bike not hindered by the manufacturer. Throttle stops, catch bottles - you can see the evidence of these on CA street bikes. Why did California lose the RZ350 from show room floors?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Rz350
hellion
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1/15/2011 4:01pm
JJO741 wrote:
I would just like to say that this thread made me buy a 2011 yz125.
Smile
That's awesome. Burn up those dinosaur bones with a smile! I love it.
PRM31
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1/15/2011 6:45pm
Really comes down to this for me. Do four strokes make the sport better or worse? In my opinion they make it worse. By making it more expensive on the local riders to purchase and maintain bikes you are going to lose some number of people from the sport and the manufacturers will sell fewer bikes. There is no corresponding benefit to the sport by effectively mandating 4-strokes.



Craze
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1/17/2011 9:29pm
DC wrote:
Yes, i have sone thoughts on this... But I called it the Racer X Rookies' Cup when I pitched it last year. Maybe the support and...
Yes, i have sone thoughts on this... But I called it the Racer X Rookies' Cup when I pitched it last year. Maybe the support and number of bikes will actually be there this time. I don't think anyone on this board is an actual 16 to 19-year-old prospect who would participate, though a few parents and sponsors might be on here....

Question on straight-up racing in the 250 class: how woold Mike Alessi do in the 250 class on a factory KTM two-smoke? I am afraid the answer would not be good for racing, but it would be great for #800.... That's the real conundrum. Some think it will even the playing field, but I am afraid it would give others a distinct advantage, and then the factories that still make and market two-strokes in America would have an overwhelming advantage.

Just my two cents.

DC
MX Sports
And who's fault is that?....Just goes to show you who really runs the AMA...It's not the AMA is it.

My 2 cents
JB 19
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1/17/2011 9:49pm
hellion wrote:
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks...
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks.
To hear that there are a lot of people riding road rockets where you are is good. I'm surprised though, as it seems here there are very few in comparison with the cruiser and touring bikes. Plus, have you ever seen the attendance at a road race. It's nothing compared to Moto or SX, unless you are talking MotoGP. I guess everything needs to be looked at from all angles. But the bottom line for me still is that allowing two strokes a level playing field or including them with a new 125 only class can only help in a time when our sport is seeing decreased numbers every year.
Have you ever been to a pro road race? Show up at Mid Ohio this summer and I think you will be very surprised at what you see. Thousands and thousands of people and thousands of them who rode their sport bike to the race.

Most sport bike fans don't road race. Most are street riders who enjoy curvy back roads with their friends. I know because I was one of those guys for years. Pro road racing is very screwed up right now and we need to be very careful that motocross doesn't end up the same way.
1/17/2011 9:55pm
DC wrote:
KaBoom, I don't make a paycheck at the nationals; I am in the magazine business. I work on the nationals because the nationals needed work, not...
KaBoom, I don't make a paycheck at the nationals; I am in the magazine business. I work on the nationals because the nationals needed work, not because I needed paid.

MX Sports runs 250cc motorcycles together locally and at Loretta Lynn's for a variety of reasons, including to help keep costs down for amateurs. I have absolutely nothing against two-strokes, but I do have a problem with blowing up the series and running off factory teams and factory jobs like we've seen in other forms of racing when rules did not mesh with the products offered by the OEMs.

And Themtroad, the AMA Motocross Series had better attendance and a vastly bigger TV audience than it has ever had in 2010, which was a down year for the economy. Appreciate the doom-and-gloom scenario you painted, but like AMA Supercross, which also utilizes the AMA rulebook we've done a pretty good job in attracting fans and sponsors and getting our sport on TV while other forms of professional racing have struggled.

DC
MX Sports
Why the AMA and Davey Coombs have such a short view on the problem? It worked pretty good everywhere else but won't work here? Explain to me this one? Why the AMA is all about the show and not the riders? Is AMA the next NASCAR? You guys didn't learn from the AMA Road Series which totally collapsed the last few years?? I wonder why? What about the OEMS? Is it the kamikaze Japanese mentality? For them, it's all or nothing.They rather die and go broke, doing what they stand for and swear by, than to admit they were wrong..Have you read the Jody's box? I think the old grumpy guy is pretty bang-on.

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/WHAT-YOURE-MISSING-IF-YOU-H…
1/17/2011 9:56pm
hellion wrote:
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks...
I didn't sat it would help amatuer racing flourish, I just said that I didn't think it would hurt pro racing as much as Davey thinks.
To hear that there are a lot of people riding road rockets where you are is good. I'm surprised though, as it seems here there are very few in comparison with the cruiser and touring bikes. Plus, have you ever seen the attendance at a road race. It's nothing compared to Moto or SX, unless you are talking MotoGP. I guess everything needs to be looked at from all angles. But the bottom line for me still is that allowing two strokes a level playing field or including them with a new 125 only class can only help in a time when our sport is seeing decreased numbers every year.
JB 19 wrote:
Have you ever been to a pro road race? Show up at Mid Ohio this summer and I think you will be very surprised at what...
Have you ever been to a pro road race? Show up at Mid Ohio this summer and I think you will be very surprised at what you see. Thousands and thousands of people and thousands of them who rode their sport bike to the race.

Most sport bike fans don't road race. Most are street riders who enjoy curvy back roads with their friends. I know because I was one of those guys for years. Pro road racing is very screwed up right now and we need to be very careful that motocross doesn't end up the same way.
x2
JB 19
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1/17/2011 10:26pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2011 10:28pm
Comparing the sport now to the years just before the four strokes took over is not a correct comparison. We are in a down economy right now. 4 to 6 years ago the economy was spinning out of control. People were buying everything they could get their hands on with credit cards. I think we should look back to the late eighties and what it was like then. That was a similar economy.



The cost of four stroke repairs have no doubt driven some people off, but I'm willing to bet that there are many people who could not afford to go racing right now if a two stroke was all we could buy. New two stroke s are still 6-7 grand. Many people cannot even afford that in todays economy.



I believe the equation is much more complex than most people think.
1/17/2011 10:51pm
JB 19 wrote:
Comparing the sport now to the years just before the four strokes took over is not a correct comparison. We are in a down economy right...
Comparing the sport now to the years just before the four strokes took over is not a correct comparison. We are in a down economy right now. 4 to 6 years ago the economy was spinning out of control. People were buying everything they could get their hands on with credit cards. I think we should look back to the late eighties and what it was like then. That was a similar economy.



The cost of four stroke repairs have no doubt driven some people off, but I'm willing to bet that there are many people who could not afford to go racing right now if a two stroke was all we could buy. New two stroke s are still 6-7 grand. Many people cannot even afford that in todays economy.



I believe the equation is much more complex than most people think.
Agree with you but 2 stroke always going to be the best option for the sport even if the economy is going down and up.They still talking about the return of investment after 10-15 years in the business with the new 4 stroke! This is so wrong. The problem is not the players..It is the leaders. AMA Supercross is the new Monster Truck SuperJam series lol!
themrtoad
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1/18/2011 1:48am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2011 1:51am
HOGIE888 wrote:
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the...
well, if he is the almighty leader of the sport in the states, he should be lobbying for the riders to be able to afford the sport that we all love.(read...pressure the OEM's for affordable bikes that don't granade and cost buko bucks to rebuid). Instead, he sits back and counts his millions of $$$$$ that he makes off of the riders
First, how do you know he's not lobbying for that? Second, what fantasy world do some of you guys live in? What power/leverage does he have...
First, how do you know he's not lobbying for that?

Second, what fantasy world do some of you guys live in? What power/leverage does he have to coerce manufacturers to build or not build any particular kind of bike, or to price them and their parts affordably?

While you're at it, DC, make Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa, etc start producing bikes again.

What power or leverage does he have to coerce aftermarket shops from hopping up bikes and consumers from paying their money for that?

He can change rules for the series he has control over, that's it. No one has to participate in those series, either at the pro level or amateur.

The rules people want are in the amateurs. In the pros, it was one of the first issues that got broached and he has told you most of the OEMs told him to pound sand.

Have people forgotten the state of things by the time the AMA had screwed the nationals into the toilet and decided to sell them ~ last minute TV deals, no series sponsor, OEM's pulling team resources, major private teams pulling out, all shifting resources to an SX series run by an entirely different set of people, with the FIM and another outdoor series in the wings disparaging US outdoor racing at every turn and today still doing all they can to undermine it. All non-profits, no doubt, though, unlike that money grubbing bastard DC.

It's easy on this side of the door to say the OEM's won't walk. It's easy to say they'll make additional models of bikes, in a depressed economy, just because DC changes the rules. It doesn't make it so, and DC is the only one who has posted here who had to decide whether they meant what they said. They sell orders of magnitude more street bikes than MX bikes, and road racing lost resources and had OEM's walk.

the OEM wants to be racing in front of a market that can buy their products. YS thinks the future is in Asia, South America etc. Do they plan to sell lot's of expensive racing machines? probably not more like scooters. I guess they want to market their brand, not their line of bikes for actual competition. So is this what MX is down to? To expensive to take part in on any higher level, but a cheaper way for marketing brands than motoGP, F1 etc.

If that's the longterm plan of Luongo and DC I can see why they aren't interested in the sport on grassrootlevel. There's other forces that decide the size of their paychecks, and that's nothing wrong with that looking at it from their perspective. Are they friends of motocross as we know it and the sport we learned to love? No they are not, they just found out they could make motocross a lot fancier and more xpensive than before, and still be a lot cheaper than F1 etc. They don't really care that motocross used to be pretty close between proffessionel level and amateur level, and people are going bancrupt trying to keep up with the new conditions in our sport. They do not depend on bikesales of motocrossbikes and therefore they have a lot in common with the big4 that always cry that they don't make any profit making dirtbikes, it's just marketing.

Seems like it time to put our money elsewhere. Not the big4, not YS and not MXsports. Soon we all be riding around on chinese pitbikes wondering what the hell happened...

I think the first one to let the twostrokes back in on prolevel will be the winner between YS and MXsports. It's a new initiative that would boost bikesales and the sport and give them the upper hand and therefore the focus of the big sponsors
motogrady
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1/18/2011 5:46am

Don't think for a minute the big 4 wouldn't pull the plug if they don't get their way.

Honda left dirttrack racing when the rules were changed to help the Harleys.
They left F1 when they took that ride to a level even they couldn't afford.
They left AMA roadracing when DMG took over and they didn't like the rules.

And every time they did it was adios m/f, we're off, carry on as you wish.

Why support this arrogance?
1/18/2011 6:09am
The MFG's also pulled out of ATV racing in the late 80's and it didnt kill that.. The hop up shops formed their own teams and the searies went on. I think things are already headed that ways anyways with the factory teams slowly scaling back their support.. They are probably just waiting for a reason to pull out...

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