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Notice, too, that there are two competing themes in this thread that cut against each other: privateers need 250 two strokes as a cheap performance threat to hopped up 250f's; but on the other hand, the 250 two stokes are not good enough against the hopped up 250f's that factories would adopt them and max them out in the same manner they do the 250f's now.
There may need to be solutions that level the playing field, but this one seems to present more problems than it's worth unless you can come up with some rule that fairly says major support teams can max out a 250f, and only other "lesser" riders can use the smoker.
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The answer for the 99.9% of us not constrained by pro mx rules is to buy a new smoker from one of the companies that is making them still and tell the dealers of the other brands in your town that you didn't buy that brand because they don't make the bike you want.
Keep giving DC shit and see how keen he is to even consider your thoughts in the future. He is human.
The man said it in with no mixed words. 2010 was a big tv year. The bigger the tv ratings get the more ad money comes in and the less bike sales will have to do with the direction our sport takes.
Once again look at nascar. You cant go to your dealer and buy anything that remotely resembles a cup car, and it is illegal to drive like they race, yet they consitently rake in viewers and sponsors and advertisers.
Maybe we should go back to a works bike platform.
Or maybe a three class schedule 125, 250, open. With one forty minute moto. I would be all over that.
I think the only thing safe to say is that change is inevitable.
"The best, most effective thing individuals can do to advance two strokes is to buy them from the OEMs that sell them and tell the dealers of other brands they aren't buying their bikes because they don't sell smokers. If the numbers add up, then more smokers will show up. If the numbers don't add up, then that's the only poll that matters"
This is absolutely correct..and if the racing rules are fairer it will happen.... All the bs and tangents aside, it boils down to we want fairer class structures to allow 2 strokes to be more competitive (because the survival of the 2 stroke is vital for the sport...and it has a better chance of surviving if there is a place somewhere in professional motocross for it).
We're not asking manufactures to start building 200's or bizzare random shit. Just saying that with all the bikes currently available it makes the most sense to put a 250 with a 250 as opposed to the current formula. Sure it isn't perfect. Some will love it...some will complain. But it's better.
Something should of been done 10 years ago.
If the OEM's are going to build smokers again, they're not just going to ramp it up for a handful of guys that want them in pro classes. That's going to be maybe 50 units at most. This has to be something driven from the consumer side, where people can race these bikes right now.
Now, you give Stewart, Dungey, and RV all factory 250T's to race in the 450 class and I would virtually guarantee you that those three would still finish top 3 almost every single race.
Weird though when you go to a track and see 250Fs still winning when so many people have supposedly switched to the 250T, if they were so superior, why do they still lose? The answer is simple, just like in the pro's, it only matters who's racing them.
Also, if you take a poll and look at the average age of the people who want the 2 stroke back, the vast majority by a huge margin is the older generation, those who have been on 2 strokes when thats all there was.
One last thing, you guys jump up and down about 9 pages and 250+ replies to this topic. Lets see, this is, or I would consider it to be, one of, if not the most popular motocross/SX website on the internet with who knows, thousands and thousands of members, yet a WHOPPING total of 250+ people replied. Do you find something wrong with that? So the manufacturers and the AMA is supposed to drop what they are doing, because 250+ people reply to this topic or some 2 stroke aimed Poll about what people prefer gets several hundred votes etc? REALLY? SERIOUSLY?
I understand that the movement has to come from the consumer side, and I believe that if classes are structured in pro racing to support the 2 stroke (instead of completely discourage it) it will snowball and create a 2 stroke wave with consumers...not to eliminate 250F's, but enough for both strokes to coexist and allow consumers to have a choice.
Here's what I don't understand, you guys bitched and whined for the to get the rules changed in the classes 99.99% of the people on this board race. Now that it is, it still isnt good enough for you. You want the pro's to race them now. However, I do very clearly remember all the people who hated on James Stewart, which was the majority of you, when he was still racing his KX250 2T against RC on his 450F and was running with him at nearly every race. RC was pretty much running away from him, James got close enough one weekend at Unadilla to land on him. You make it sound like they were dicing and going back and forth all summer.
Now, you give Stewart, Dungey, and RV all factory 250T's to race in the 450 class and I would virtually guarantee you that those three would still finish top 3 almost every single race.
Yep they would...and they'd do the same on 250F's in the 450 class. So what's you point? Johnny O'mara's 125 beat Dave Thorpe's 500 at Maggiora in '86.
Weird though when you go to a track and see 250Fs still winning when so many people have supposedly switched to the 250T, if they were so superior, why do they still lose? The answer is simple, just like in the pro's, it only matters who's racing them. Exactly...so lets race 250's vs 250's because the 2 stroke isn't guaranteed a win. I woudn't say "so many people have switched" if there are 30 guys in the 250B class, I'd say I see about 5-7 250 2 strokes on average in my part of the country.
Also, if you take a poll and look at the average age of the people who want the 2 stroke back, the vast majority by a huge margin is the older generation, those who have been on 2 strokes when thats all there was. You're right, 16 year old rich kids who's parents pay for everything don't care. Guys like me who've raced since the 80's care. Kids who can never mow enough lawns to go racing care, the neighbor kid down the road with a blown up 250F that he can't afford to fix and will never have another dirt bike in his life...he cares..Local promoters with low entries, they care. Bike shops who used to sell 5 125's for every 1 250F they will sell this year...they care.
The last thing we need in this country is for the top guys to end up going to Europe to race because they can't make a living here.
I have said for 2 years that the guys who want to ride and race a 2 stroke can do that. Nobody is stopping them. The guys who race for a living would rather be on a 4 stroke anyway. Can't we just enjoy the LIVE racing on tv and next day coverage in HD?
Pit Row
There you go. http://columbus.craigslist.org/mcy/2097669330.html
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Vote-With-Your-Wallet,9977…
I actually did cut grass...and do odd jobs to pay for my racing. My parents played a role as well. But I was able to race....as were 10 other kids in school in my small town.
Now in that same small town guess how many kids currently race or have Motocross bikes.
Zero. That's zero bike sales at the shop, zero oil....zero boots...zero clutch plates.
I'm sick of hearing about growing the sport...blowing it up...our concern needs to be to make it stable and consistently as strong as it ever was. Pro Racing and the Amateur/Consumer/Sport side are different. A good TV package isn't an indication of how well "the sports" doing. It's there to sell Energy drinks...not bikes, oil, boots, or clutch plates.
That's the stuff that needs to be successful for the livlihood of the sport.
We really have a lot of different subjects going on here.
I remember in the 80's having over 100 80cc bikes at local races.....
All gone, because of "THE MAN" and I do not mean Roger Decoster....
I agree. If you want a 2 smoker go buy one.Vote with your wallet. You can even race against the 250 4 strokes if that turns you on.
All these guys want to bitch about 2 strokes, but won't go buy one. They're available.
Btw, I'm an old guy that rides a KX250f. I have no desire to go back to a 2 stroke, even though I can race it in the 250 class. As a matter of fact, the last race I was at, there was only 1 YZ250 there. Everything else was a 4T.
And, not all that many vet riders want a 2 smoker. As a matter of fact, I ride with quite few, none of them are wanting one.
As far as DC goes, he's done more positive things for mx in the last few years than I've seen done since I've been following mx. I think the future is bright.
If AJ could be coerced into buiding some Service Honda 125's (or Kaws) ............
Well a guy is allowed to dream right ??
I know dealers don't always have the ear of the OEMs and have a rough time of it. But if they have to sit on four bangers and people are telling them too bad you are losing a sale because you don't have a bike, maybe that'll start to get passed up the chain. A lot faster than hoping they'll read a lot of junk on a message board.
And if you find new one elsewhere or a used alternative, drive by his shop with to demonstrate the money he didn't get is real.
The notion that DC can cram a rule down the OEM's throat and that's suddenly going to (a) produce more two strokes on the showroom floor and (b) make pro racing golden rather than it's supposed suckiness now seems to me - just to me - a lot less viable course of action.
Please no one think I'm against smokers, I just like to live in the land of the possible when I try to think of solutions. The fact that entities like the OEM's have the power to dictate what they build and whether they'll race can be a fact whether I like it or not.
I don't know of any 2 stroke that ever broke down to the extent that a guy had to part it out...yet I know of heaps of 4 strokes that are only a few years old and are good for nothing but ebay parts.
Post a reply to: Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes