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It takes a really special kind of piece of shit to even think that these families are trying to profit off of the death of their child.
agreed. reporting right after the crash and rider death gave conflicting information from other riders on if the rider was run over or not. Also, if he was laying motionless for an extended period without flaggers, EMTs, or track officials noticing or responding. The parents few comments indicated they were also getting conflicting reports. Then all the commentors went radio silent almost as if instructed to. That was when I stopped following this closely figuring once the actual verified FACTS were established and released it would probably be a unified response by people in positions to speak with informed authority instead of speculation and hearsay.
I think a driving motive of the lawsuit may be to depose people to get to the actual truth to give the family closure. It may not be a $ grab or push for change as much as finding the truth. Of course anything is possible with lawyers involved.
The negligence is going to surround the amount of time it took to respond to Aidan I believe. I don’t have an opinion either way. But the response time to him seems to be the angle here. And if it were properly staffed (which by your account it sounds like it was) why did it take 4 minutes to get to him?
Again I’m just playing devils advocate here asking questions I think would be relevant.
I had a longer response to this typed out, but it can be surmised pretty simply.
Did you have control over the situation that led to you being injured & was the situation avoidable were in not for unequivocal negligence on someone else's part? (I.E Water Truck/Tractor pulling onto track.)
LACR? Sketchy Sketchy Sketchy section that RT's boy got horrifically injured at. I had done countless laps at LACR when that section was present, and I never let myself go above 2nd gear going into the corner out of fear of whiskey throttling - every single person knew the consequences of overshooting that corner, yet people still went Mach-Nipple into it anyway. Silly layout? Yes. Riders' decision to layoff into that corner? Also yes. LACR bears zero responsibility in my mind.
Mammoth has more flaggers, more medics, and more communication between staff than just about any track I have ever been to. Virtually no jumps & very few blind sections. If Mammoth is deemed unsafe then every track across America will be closed in a month.
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That is my question. Why was he on the track for 4 minutes?
I am definately not going to judge a family that just lost their son.
Godspeed AZ.
I don’t think you can prove or disprove a track being safe or dangerous. Too many variables.
It seems the point of contention is going to be response time to the downed rider/stopping the race.
We’ve all criticized flaggers in AMA races for putting riders at risk of injury. Either because they aren’t paying attention or flagging the wrong area etc. I see it at the local level too. Flagger is watching the race instead of paying attention to there area.
So if you show up and pay to ride Glen Helen on a Thursday afternoon knowing there are no flaggers present, the track is supposed to save you from you own decisions? Thought processes like this are a big part of why it is so hard to find places to ride. Take some personal responsibility or sell your bike.
I don’t disagree with you but there is a difference in liability when an event is taking place vs participating in open practice.
Then why sue Fox? Unfortunately their inclusion has all the markings of dragging in as many insurance policies as possible seeking the largest monetary recovery. I'm not going to begin to question motives though, we'll find that out when the legal proceedings are complete.
Except thats exactly what ive seen happen over and over when this comes up for the last damn near 30 years.
Putting my personal feelings about track suing people aside, if it were just the promoters/race operators being sued, then it would feel like a more definitive reason for a "possible" process breakdown that they're trying to pin down as gross negligence. But including Fox is a joke and a clear sign that this is just a money grab, and I'm surprised that Oakley wasn't included for some cryptic connection between gross negligent goggles that caused him to crash in the first place.
That's a little harsh. The sad reality is many wrongful death suits start out with publicly stated noble intentions but end up with quiet and private monetary settlements subject to non-disclosure/non-disparagement agreements.
I'm not going to question motives or bash the family, but I can understand why some would have a more emotional response to the nature of the lawsuit.
I believe we’re talking about sanctioned, organized race events here. We should all have a reasonable expectation of safety when participating in organized events.
There was no flagger near where Aidan crashed. 2 laps and 4 minutes to stop the race.
Aidan died from cardiac tamponade, which suggests he was hit.
The Zingg’s spoke with a couple of the riders after the race was stopped. They were allegedly inconsolable. The race promoter tried to give a different account of what happened. They made conflicting statements to the parents and the press. No one, including 2X or Fox would speak with the media, specifically USA Today. They were completely mum. Professional organizations simply do not get away with that. Motocross can continue to try to brush the damage under the rug, or grow the fuck up.
Aidan crashed in an unflagged area of the track and was hit, perhaps more than once. The poor kid laid there on the track for 2 whole laps before the race was stopped.
I just can’t wrap my head around that. Not at an event like this.
Comparing this to a random weekend practice session at Glen Helen is patently absurd.
if I ski at mammoth, fall, get run over by the skier behind me, do I get to sue Mammoth? Sounds dumb? of course it does. If I fell because a runaway snow blower came out of the trees and I hit it, different story
What I dont understand is that the Zingg family and Myron Short from 2X Promotions are/were great friends. Can't get my head around this but all I can hope for is that common sense prevails.
I’m not a legal expert but I believe when you file the lawsuit you want to cast the widest net and anyone associated with funding, organizing and executing the race could be liable. I’m not sure why other than that. Maybe Fox was paying for the flaggers or something I’m not sure.
The Zingg family was obviously around the sport long enough to know how this would go over for a lot of people.
There is one very simple question that we need the answer too. Why did it take 4 minutes for them to get to Aidan? That’s the crux of the issue. Edit *and if in that timeframe he was struck by a rider that should have been aware he was there by the warning of a flagger there is your negligence.
Not directly related to the lawsuit, just a question for the racers.
What do you need to see, as a racer, to abandon your race and help a downed rider?
I’ve pulled off several times and flagged (arm waved..) riders around a guy on the ground. If I see a guy go down, and he’s still there the next time around, I’m stopping to help, no hesitation. Did the entire pack pass Zingg twice waiting for the track crew to get there?
No but you get to sue the guy that hit you. Cough gwenyth Paltrow cough cough.
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I brought this up a few pages ago. We as riders need to look out for each other.
I missed your message, but agree 100%
Hey Grape, where does it say that Fox is also being sued? Thanks.
That should be something good that comes from this. It’s a silly dirtbike race. I promise you’ll feel way better about yourself if you stop to help someone that might be in trouble vs getting your little trophy.
Fox was included because his chest protector was penetrated, nothing to do with the track design or operation.
Pulled from one of the articles cited on page 1:
"In addition to the AMA, other defendants named in the lawsuit include 2XP LLC, a California-based company that worked with the AMA to promote the annual amateur races; Alterra Mountain Company U.S. Inc., a hospitality company in Denver that owns Mammoth Mountain; and Revelyst Adventure Sports that does business as Fox Racing and manufactures motocross protective equipment, including the chest protector Aidan wore during the fatal crash, according to the complaint."
Edit I read that wrong.
I’ll go back to my previous statement. This looks to me like the lawyer trying to cast a wide net. And a CE rated chest protector that claims protections against punctures could be part of it (I do not know what he was wearing, or if it is CE rated and to what level etc)
I’m just theorizing here. There’s a lot of people in here basing opinions off there emotions. It’s pretty easy to see why there could be grounds for a lawsuit here if you take the emotion out of it.
Thanks GA.
So much work being done here....
4 minutes to stop the race =/= 4 minutes before anyone noticed him laying there. =/= 4 minutes until flagger attended to him. =/= still getting run over 4 minutes later.
How long after the crash was he hit? The answer isn't 4 minutes.
There was no flagger where he crashed. Might be technically true, but was there one 18 feet away as the promoter stated? Was he still trying to get off the track in the immediate aftermath of the crash when he was hit? How long after the initial crash was someone attending to him? The answer isn't 4 minutes.
Tamponade does not suggest that he was hit. The most common mechanism for tamponade is your body coming to an abrupt stop. Did he high side? Doubt this was simple tip over if he were unable to get off the track. He may have also been hit, but was he already laid out on the track when he was hit? Someone mentioned earlier he had tried to get off the track, so doesn't sound like he was knocked out immediately. Tamponade isn't instant so the scenario where he's up and stumbling for a few seconds before going down fits pretty well with tamponade from the initial crash. Either way, it's a total assumption that the tamponade was caused by being hit.
Lot of assumptions being made to walk a very narrow path where the flaggers weren't close enough and response wasn't adequate and that allowed subsequent injury to a rider already laid out on the track and that subsequent injury is when the tamponade occurred. If he was hit while he was still up trying to get off the track it would imply it happened very soon after the crash, not 4 minutes later, and no reasonable person would expect immediate protection from flagger. If he was hit some time later as he was laid out on the track after initially trying to get off the track, that would imply the tamponade took place with the initial crash and was the reason he collapsed in the first place. It seems you have to run a shell game with the facts to make it play out the way you're implying it played out.
And after all that you're still left with the piling on, naming anyone and everyone who can be named, and using an ambulance chasing attorney who gets paid based on how much money they recover and who has zero incentive to make anything safer or better.
I don't question anyone's motives and they may very well believe they were wronged in some way, but that doesn't make it true. I'm also confident that no matter how much money they make in this pursuit it's not going to make them feel better about any of it or make anyone else safer, unless the objective is to promote safety by limiting racing opportunities.
It takes an even bigger piece of shit to allow your child to participate in a dangerous sport, keep them in a race instead of loading up the bike despite it supposedly having obvious safety issues, then sue when something goes wrong, including suing a company that sponsored your child.
There used to be a time when people had personal responsibility. Now “everyone must pay because I’m hurting.” It’s going to ruin our country.
Back in the early 90's, I crashed at a local pro's practice track and split my pancreas in half. Went to the ER and was told that I had bruised stomach muscles and sent home, a week later my stepmom found me in horrible condition and near death. Fast forward to meeting with attorneys for a malpractice lawsuit against the ER, the attorneys pushed very hard to sue, the owner of the land the practice track was on, Kawasaki, HRP (chest protector) and others. We declined and the attorneys were not happy, but my dad told them that under no circumstances would we be suing anyone other than the doctor and hospital. Attorneys suck..
We will probably never learn all the detailed facts surrounding this terrible incident, why/how it happened, and whether anyone was legally negligent with regard to the loss of the young rider's life, based on those facts. This case will likely never go to trial given the facts as we know them. It will be settled with a confidential settlement agreement.
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