Democrats urge military to disobey orders.....

11/30/2025 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2025 5:13pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Approximately 41.7 million people, or 12.3% of the U.S. population, received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024.So, your 2,000,000+ non-citizens is far too many. Refugees should...

Approximately 41.7 million people, or 12.3% of the U.S. population, received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024.

So, your 2,000,000+ non-citizens is far too many. Refugees should be an ENTIRELY different program all together. Why? Because, THEY’RE REFUGEES as in UNHCR, etc. …refugees deserve…require an entirely different focus and attention in order to finally get at all the issues causing their status as refugees…versus just throwing them under some over-used domestic program & forgetting about them.

Worse, yet, is your glossing over the simple sad fact that 1/8th of the U.S. population is on SNAP. Fuck, that’s embarrassing. To that end: I’m one of those that’s NOT of the belief that ALL 41.7M need or deserve SNAP.

But, I digress. 

matt.3150 wrote:
I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t...

I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t survive on.    There are solutions but allot of the politicians are bought off by big corporations and the extremely wealthy. We have a government that is really socialism for billionaires. Norway is doing it right! 

Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

"Get back to a merit system and honor."

If only your leaders had honor!

image 2350.png?VersionId=mSg6pTLtH4UCAVBylsPLq0.537
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matt.3150
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827
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Location
San Jose, CA, USA
11/30/2025 4:52pm
byke wrote:
Agree they should be separate, if nothing else to clarify expense which is what should be used to more accurately drive policy and set fixed budgets. Also...

Agree they should be separate, if nothing else to clarify expense which is what should be used to more accurately drive policy and set fixed budgets. 

Also agree that not all need the benefits. but it seems like more and more jobs are effectively turning into something that resembles the restaurant waiter/waitress business model where wages aren't enough and who cares because everyone else will subsidize it. Walmart is our largest private employer and half of these workers are part time, which probably means there's a fair bit of subsidizing going on. McDonald's does the same, plenty of others. Oh and the vast majority of Walmart's products come from China and India. 

Globalization is definitely a part of it, but really globalization as a concept is just when people boost profits from geographic wage disparity, which that concept is just as easy to have within the USA. For example, there are tons of super cheap machinists in Northern Maine, so we buy parts from small shops in Northern Maine for less than half of what they cost in the greater Sacramento area, but it results in fewer of those machining jobs/shops here, because we're stepping outside of the local economic cycle to chase margin. And then it also makes parts more expensive for people in Northern Maine that need parts, so they start looking overseas. Ultimately this stuff is all the result of economic freedom, which is to say capitalism, and I think people generally have a false perception of what capitalism is, because it's not here to make everyone happy. And as it turns out, we're choosing to subsidize the unhappy people.

What should be done about it? Our only options are to either reduce economic freedom, or allow people to live worse lives while doing nothing about it, or allow them to live worse lives but with a little extra food that adds up to a big expense which grows endlessly. There's kinda no way to win unless massive employers suddenly start choosing to make less money of their own free will. And I think we're all failing there, the core point of what American freedom is supposed to be about, which is to have the freedom to be a pos, yet have the character to choose not to. Today, we hate rules while simultaneously believe that we're still good people for following the rules, so we're using the rules as the guide for our morality while also believing we should have very few rules, which of course causes people to make more rules as the mechanism for improving people in society. Something is really broken in this cycle, the way we all think about our roles here. 

(sorry to those that live in a 144 character world) 

matt.3150 wrote:
Look at Norway. Thats a model we should be looking at.  What has happened is that Capitalism  (money) has created class and power.   Politicians get...

Look at Norway. Thats a model we should be looking at.  What has happened is that Capitalism  (money) has created class and power.   Politicians get paid and bought off be this.  Everything is a money grad at this point in the USA, it’s not about bringing the people up. It’s about exploiting the people to get rich.  Look at the military industrial complex, the US healthcare system, our prison systems.   I could go on and on. But I think you get it.

byke wrote:
Unfortunately the Scandi systems wouldn't work here as they would there, because we're just not Scandi's. Not to imply that they're monolithic, but we're probably the...

Unfortunately the Scandi systems wouldn't work here as they would there, because we're just not Scandi's. Not to imply that they're monolithic, but we're probably the least monolithic country around. Everything kind of boils down to freedom. Political and economic systems are really just representations of more/less freedom. The more/less amount of money you have represents the amount of freedom you have. The core principle surrounding this country is that we have very high levels of freedom, so that's why we're setup like we are. 

We privatize a lot because privatization is far more representative of freedom than anything else. People blame systems because they don't know or care how this country works and they don't know or care about how it works because we stopped pounding civics into our schools. The way it works is, you have the freedom to money grab and you have the freedom to exploit and you have the freedom to run shitty healthcare systems, but you're supposed to choose of your own free will to do better. 

That's how this country is setup, so you have two choices, you can either ditch the freedom foundation and create a super controlled...everything...in the hopes that it will force people to do the right things, or you can start beating civics into people's heads and you'll have to wait twenty years to start seeing the benefits. And should you choose the former, you'll never achieve it as long as there's a supreme court. We're losing our societal and historical reference points, driving down a road and we forgot where we're going. You can either remind people where you're going, or you can go somewhere new, but going somewhere new because of a reduction in information and wisdom probably isn't going to take you somewhere better. 

It pessimistic but  your right.  You have people thinking there loosing their freedom with government run healthcare. The health insurance industry in the USA is a giant grift. 
If the government covers that cost, it would make healthcare much cheaper and you would not get turned down for things your doctor decides you need.  Better faster service and much more affordable.  The Right screams socialism because they want a capitalism grift.

They only want socialism for the rich and connected 

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matt.3150
Posts
827
Joined
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Location
San Jose, CA, USA
11/30/2025 5:06pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Approximately 41.7 million people, or 12.3% of the U.S. population, received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024.So, your 2,000,000+ non-citizens is far too many. Refugees should...

Approximately 41.7 million people, or 12.3% of the U.S. population, received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024.

So, your 2,000,000+ non-citizens is far too many. Refugees should be an ENTIRELY different program all together. Why? Because, THEY’RE REFUGEES as in UNHCR, etc. …refugees deserve…require an entirely different focus and attention in order to finally get at all the issues causing their status as refugees…versus just throwing them under some over-used domestic program & forgetting about them.

Worse, yet, is your glossing over the simple sad fact that 1/8th of the U.S. population is on SNAP. Fuck, that’s embarrassing. To that end: I’m one of those that’s NOT of the belief that ALL 41.7M need or deserve SNAP.

But, I digress. 

matt.3150 wrote:
I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t...

I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t survive on.    There are solutions but allot of the politicians are bought off by big corporations and the extremely wealthy. We have a government that is really socialism for billionaires. Norway is doing it right! 

Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

Oh like the $40 billion dollars that Trump sent to Argentina? What about the farmer who lost all the immigrants to work there farms and then lost there revenue stream because of the tariffs. What about all the people that are going to be kicked off there healthcare.  Cancer research. This list will go on and on, how is anyone of this American first. The only people in America that are first are the rich getting tax cuts when they already are not paying there far share.  If you look back at American history you will see that America first didn’t work in the 1920’s , we also used tariffs just like we are doing now, it caused the depression!

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byke
Posts
3180
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Location
Auburn, CA, USA
11/30/2025 5:17pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2025 5:22pm
matt.3150 wrote:
Look at Norway. Thats a model we should be looking at.  What has happened is that Capitalism  (money) has created class and power.   Politicians get...

Look at Norway. Thats a model we should be looking at.  What has happened is that Capitalism  (money) has created class and power.   Politicians get paid and bought off be this.  Everything is a money grad at this point in the USA, it’s not about bringing the people up. It’s about exploiting the people to get rich.  Look at the military industrial complex, the US healthcare system, our prison systems.   I could go on and on. But I think you get it.

byke wrote:
Unfortunately the Scandi systems wouldn't work here as they would there, because we're just not Scandi's. Not to imply that they're monolithic, but we're probably the...

Unfortunately the Scandi systems wouldn't work here as they would there, because we're just not Scandi's. Not to imply that they're monolithic, but we're probably the least monolithic country around. Everything kind of boils down to freedom. Political and economic systems are really just representations of more/less freedom. The more/less amount of money you have represents the amount of freedom you have. The core principle surrounding this country is that we have very high levels of freedom, so that's why we're setup like we are. 

We privatize a lot because privatization is far more representative of freedom than anything else. People blame systems because they don't know or care how this country works and they don't know or care about how it works because we stopped pounding civics into our schools. The way it works is, you have the freedom to money grab and you have the freedom to exploit and you have the freedom to run shitty healthcare systems, but you're supposed to choose of your own free will to do better. 

That's how this country is setup, so you have two choices, you can either ditch the freedom foundation and create a super controlled...everything...in the hopes that it will force people to do the right things, or you can start beating civics into people's heads and you'll have to wait twenty years to start seeing the benefits. And should you choose the former, you'll never achieve it as long as there's a supreme court. We're losing our societal and historical reference points, driving down a road and we forgot where we're going. You can either remind people where you're going, or you can go somewhere new, but going somewhere new because of a reduction in information and wisdom probably isn't going to take you somewhere better. 

matt.3150 wrote:
It pessimistic but  your right.  You have people thinking there loosing their freedom with government run healthcare. The health insurance industry in the USA is a...

It pessimistic but  your right.  You have people thinking there loosing their freedom with government run healthcare. The health insurance industry in the USA is a giant grift. 
If the government covers that cost, it would make healthcare much cheaper and you would not get turned down for things your doctor decides you need.  Better faster service and much more affordable.  The Right screams socialism because they want a capitalism grift.

They only want socialism for the rich and connected 

The whole "if you can keep it" thing with this country is about effort, so if there's nothing but shitty healthcare providers, or the only one around is shitty, then people are supposed to speak with their wallet to force them to change, which means people will have to suffer to get what they want, but people don't want to do that. Instead, our mouths say "no" and our wallets say "yes", but which one do you think corps listen to...? Inflation is no different. We the people have all the control and power, we just have to unify and be willing to suffer, prioritizing those old school ideologies above our personal comfort. 

And for what it's worth, I think the trajectory used to be that the right and left could not be further apart, which is what big money/power wants, push them apart and keep them fighting so they don't spend their time looking at you, but this year has that changing very slightly. 

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The Shop

matt.3150
Posts
827
Joined
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Location
San Jose, CA, USA
11/30/2025 5:18pm
matt.3150 wrote:
Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct...

Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct. Just like allot of news outlets, and similar to social media it will end up giving you information you believe in.  So to use it effectively you need to question what it says and look at where it’s getting it info from.  You need to vet that info. Smart people question everything especially when they agree with it. Bottom line!!!!!!!!!   Funny you use the term far and balanced. AKA Fox News. Fox News started after Reagan eliminated a law that the News had to be far and balanced.   

LOOnatic wrote:
What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s? Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I...

What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s?

 

Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I do want it to be a  neutral information source  can we agree on that?

Yes we agree!  
I used GPT chat  the numbers it got are from the U.S. Agriculture Department data shows that as of 2023, the largest group of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program recipients by race was white (35.4%), followed by African American (25.7%), Hispanic (15.6%), Asian (3.9%), Native American (1.3%).

The agency also reported that 89.4% of SNAP recipients were U.S born citizens, meaning less than 11% of SNAP participants were foreign-born.

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11/30/2025 5:35pm
matt.3150 wrote:
It pessimistic but  your right.  You have people thinking there loosing their freedom with government run healthcare. The health insurance industry in the USA is a...

It pessimistic but  your right.  You have people thinking there loosing their freedom with government run healthcare. The health insurance industry in the USA is a giant grift. 
If the government covers that cost, it would make healthcare much cheaper and you would not get turned down for things your doctor decides you need.  Better faster service and much more affordable.  The Right screams socialism because they want a capitalism grift.

They only want socialism for the rich and connected 

"The right" isn't what you think it is. Most people I know who say they're conservative are in favor of a single payor healthcare system, myself included. 

The thing is most people who are commonly referred to as "the right" these days are actually centrist or libertarian leaning. 

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Kenny Banyan
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5206
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Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
11/30/2025 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2025 6:31pm
Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.Stopping and searching vessels for contraband...

Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.

Stopping and searching vessels for contraband in international waters is not illegal.

Do you think that America shouldn’t have bombed Irans nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities? America wasn’t at war with the Iranians.

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1
11/30/2025 6:55pm
Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.Stopping and searching vessels for contraband...

Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.

Stopping and searching vessels for contraband in international waters is not illegal.

Do you think that America shouldn’t have bombed Irans nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities? America wasn’t at war with the Iranians.

How would you feel if Iran bombed American nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities?

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Kenny Banyan
Posts
5206
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Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
11/30/2025 7:38pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2025 7:41pm
Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.Stopping and searching vessels for contraband...

Bombing civilian vessels in international waters, when your country is not at war with that country, is illegal under international law.

Stopping and searching vessels for contraband in international waters is not illegal.

Do you think that America shouldn’t have bombed Irans nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities? America wasn’t at war with the Iranians.

How would you feel if Iran bombed American nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities?

It would scare me very much. Now can you answer my question?

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11/30/2025 8:02pm

Do you think that America shouldn’t have bombed Irans nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities? America wasn’t at war with the Iranians.

How would you feel if Iran bombed American nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities?

It would scare me very much. Now can you answer my question?

America should not have bombed Iran, it is an act of war.

If you can justify America bombing another country without declaring war, you have justified another country bombing America without declaring war...

image 2352
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soggy
Posts
9061
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Location
USA
11/30/2025 8:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2025 8:04pm
matt.3150 wrote:
Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct...

Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct. Just like allot of news outlets, and similar to social media it will end up giving you information you believe in.  So to use it effectively you need to question what it says and look at where it’s getting it info from.  You need to vet that info. Smart people question everything especially when they agree with it. Bottom line!!!!!!!!!   Funny you use the term far and balanced. AKA Fox News. Fox News started after Reagan eliminated a law that the News had to be far and balanced.   

LOOnatic wrote:
What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s? Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I...

What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s?

 

Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I do want it to be a  neutral information source  can we agree on that?

What is a neutral source?  One of the RW tricks is to say anything they don’t agree with is compromised by LW influence. 

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matt.3150
Posts
827
Joined
3/20/2015
Location
San Jose, CA, USA
11/30/2025 8:23pm
matt.3150 wrote:
Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct...

Grok is right wing AI. Secondly AI get info off the internet and it can be wrong and misleading. So you can just assume it’s correct. Just like allot of news outlets, and similar to social media it will end up giving you information you believe in.  So to use it effectively you need to question what it says and look at where it’s getting it info from.  You need to vet that info. Smart people question everything especially when they agree with it. Bottom line!!!!!!!!!   Funny you use the term far and balanced. AKA Fox News. Fox News started after Reagan eliminated a law that the News had to be far and balanced.   

LOOnatic wrote:
What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s? Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I...

What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s?

 

Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I do want it to be a  neutral information source  can we agree on that?

soggy wrote:

What is a neutral source?  One of the RW tricks is to say anything they don’t agree with is compromised by LW influence. 

A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture of how each is trying to influence the agenda and see what are the facts. Router, BBC, NPR. The RW will say the left is doing something that the RW is actually doing.  RW will try and take credit for thing the left did right.

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Kenny Banyan
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5206
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Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
11/30/2025 8:29pm

How would you feel if Iran bombed American nuclear bomb manufacturing facilities?

It would scare me very much. Now can you answer my question?

America should not have bombed Iran, it is an act of war.If you can justify America bombing another country without declaring war, you have justified another...

America should not have bombed Iran, it is an act of war.

If you can justify America bombing another country without declaring war, you have justified another country bombing America without declaring war...

image 2352

Ok , you’re consistent. 👍🏻 

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1
LoudLove
Posts
3012
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USA
12/1/2025 5:16am
LOOnatic wrote:
What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s? Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I...

What AI platform did you use for your snap #'s?

 

Sorry if the phrase "fair and balanced" implied I want Ai to be Fox News but I do want it to be a  neutral information source  can we agree on that?

soggy wrote:

What is a neutral source?  One of the RW tricks is to say anything they don’t agree with is compromised by LW influence. 

matt.3150 wrote:
A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture...

A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture of how each is trying to influence the agenda and see what are the facts. Router, BBC, NPR. The RW will say the left is doing something that the RW is actually doing.  RW will try and take credit for thing the left did right.

Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and you’re sure to find data to support an argument. Or vice versa. 

A claim was made that 60%+ of SNAP benefits were paid to immigrants. A counter argument was made, and rather than support the original thesis, the counter’s source was questioned.  That might work in the world of fake news, but doesn’t work in the real world. 

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BH_84
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Cameron, ON, CA
12/1/2025 8:22am
Zycki11 wrote:
What war did he start? As far as I can see on the old score board Trump had brought more peace than any president in history...

What war did he start? As far as I can see on the old score board Trump had brought more peace than any president in history. So fact checks says don’t bring a comment based on emotion not facts into the room. Is he strong arming Venezuela? You bet ya, and I am all for it. 

BH_84 wrote:

More peace? What peace? Gaza? Nope. Ukraine? Swing and a miss. He’s done dick all for peace and now he’s escalating towards invading Venezuela. 

I see one of two things going on here. Either you were too cheap to pay for the watermark free version of that photograph but still...

I see one of two things going on here. Either you were too cheap to pay for the watermark free version of that photograph but still wanted to use it for yourself, or Glory Days Motorsports Photography is actually your company and you thought that was the best photo to advertise your services. Either way, it's a questionable choice. 

Anyway, I miss the Obama double tap drone strike days. I think Obama's strikes were a little cooler because they were on land and in densely populated areas. The real way to land a double tap strike is to hit a building, then wait 15-20 minutes for civilian emergency services to show up. This boat bombing bullshit ain't gonna cut it.

Here's a Florida Law Review Article about double tap drone strikes: Double-Tap Warfare: Should President Obama Be Investigated for War Crimes?

And here's an article from the Harvard Political Review that accuses Obama of being a war criminal for double tap strikes: Barack Obama Is A War Criminal - Harvard Political Review

 

I bought the photo, it was too big a file to use, but the lower res sample version wasn't.

So did Obama specifically order this, like Hegseth allegedly did? If so, yeah, put him on the stand. You think i give a rat's ass if he goes to jail for something he did? This is the difference, I'm fine with anyone facing justice for what they've done, and I don't make excuses for them. 

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1
TeamGreen
Posts
37817
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
12/1/2025 8:24am
matt.3150 wrote:
I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t...

I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t survive on.    There are solutions but allot of the politicians are bought off by big corporations and the extremely wealthy. We have a government that is really socialism for billionaires. Norway is doing it right! 

Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

"Get back to a merit system and honor."If only your leaders had honor!

"Get back to a merit system and honor."

If only your leaders had honor!

image 2350.png?VersionId=mSg6pTLtH4UCAVBylsPLq0.537

Psssst…

Maybe you should fix your own before running your mouth about someone-else’s government.

I’m jus’ knowin’…

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15
Zycki11
Posts
7957
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Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/1/2025 9:47am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 9:59am
matt.3150 wrote:
I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t...

I do agree it sad that 12% of the us population is on snap. That being said, there are allot of low paying jobs you can’t survive on.    There are solutions but allot of the politicians are bought off by big corporations and the extremely wealthy. We have a government that is really socialism for billionaires. Norway is doing it right! 

Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

matt.3150 wrote:
Oh like the $40 billion dollars that Trump sent to Argentina? What about the farmer who lost all the immigrants to work there farms and then...

Oh like the $40 billion dollars that Trump sent to Argentina? What about the farmer who lost all the immigrants to work there farms and then lost there revenue stream because of the tariffs. What about all the people that are going to be kicked off there healthcare.  Cancer research. This list will go on and on, how is anyone of this American first. The only people in America that are first are the rich getting tax cuts when they already are not paying there far share.  If you look back at American history you will see that America first didn’t work in the 1920’s , we also used tariffs just like we are doing now, it caused the depression!

Are you forgetting who we previously had in office? Botched Afghanistan withdrawal was 7 billion alone. We have also spent a total of 185 billion to a worthless war in Ukraine. Don’t even try and spin that. This administration has outperformed in many areas and had lots of work to do in other areas. Guess what? Year 1 of 4. The amount he has achieved makes me happy. But lots of work to do still. 

Healthcare…. The dumbest fucking thing on earth was the ACA by Obama and the subsidies. Well they had a timeline so thanks to the beloved dumb Obama healthcare is going through the roof. Yet the audacity is to blame GOP for the idiotic bill in the first place? Seems backwards.  You talk about billionaires? More billionaires are democratic than republican. More money flows through the Democratic Party than republican. They spent 1.68billion to win the election. That is 600 million more than republicans. And they still got beat on all sectors. 

Healthcare is also predominantly a money laundering machine, much like education. Problem? Doctors get kickbacks and push medication instead of proper things to do. A little sad? Take a pill, worried? Take a pill. Cancer centers are raving with cash flow and nobody bats an eye or thinks why that is happening.


This is also why Bernie has shut the hell up and looks ignorant (remember him taking the bribe money in 2016? I do) Y’all bitch and moan so much you don’t even give things a chance to work out. Nor look at the larger picture. Real change takes sacrifice. 

Stop playing the PR game and simply get down to brass tacks, roll up the sleeves, get shit done. 

Trump has been doing that. He isn’t perfect, but he sure as shit is far better than the looney toons with the rainbow hair and she/he on ministering drugs in office and military. The country has gone to the emotional week and catered to them. Tim to move the pendulum back to reality. 

2
18
Zycki11
Posts
7957
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/1/2025 10:00am
Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

"Get back to a merit system and honor."If only your leaders had honor!

"Get back to a merit system and honor."

If only your leaders had honor!

image 2350.png?VersionId=mSg6pTLtH4UCAVBylsPLq0.537
TeamGreen wrote:

Psssst…

Maybe you should fix your own before running your mouth about someone-else’s government.

I’m jus’ knowin’…

No no, remember he knows MORE than our government and how to run it efficiently. He AI searched how much it is to operate each piece of equipment. He deserves the red button 

11
Zycki11
Posts
7957
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/1/2025 10:05am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 10:08am
soggy wrote:

What is a neutral source?  One of the RW tricks is to say anything they don’t agree with is compromised by LW influence. 

matt.3150 wrote:
A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture...

A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture of how each is trying to influence the agenda and see what are the facts. Router, BBC, NPR. The RW will say the left is doing something that the RW is actually doing.  RW will try and take credit for thing the left did right.

LoudLove wrote:
Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and...

Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and you’re sure to find data to support an argument. Or vice versa. 

A claim was made that 60%+ of SNAP benefits were paid to immigrants. A counter argument was made, and rather than support the original thesis, the counter’s source was questioned.  That might work in the world of fake news, but doesn’t work in the real world. 

Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided benefits? The truth is, it is way too early to tell the real numbers. So a quick AI search that was provided is not exactly credible when the previous administration is now for inflating numbers and deflating numbers how they see fit. Look no further than job corrections as an example. Also you can research the vaccines and how harmful they are for you, and how they lied about side affects, and actually how the drugs operated to “stop the virus. So in the end, believing something so firmly is not exactly being receptive or observant. It is the opposite.  Some folks, myself included understand that with the crazy last 4 years the tree is going to take a long time to stop shaking. That includes removing illegals and correcting the system. Clearly it needs work. 

3
6
byke
Posts
3180
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
12/1/2025 10:33am
Zycki11 wrote:
Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own...

Now that we can agree upon. The simple truth is that we, The USofA are not responsible for the world. With the issues within our own walls, stop catering to immigrants for votes. Get back to a merit system and honor. Handouts need to stop unless proven a necessity. 

matt.3150 wrote:
Oh like the $40 billion dollars that Trump sent to Argentina? What about the farmer who lost all the immigrants to work there farms and then...

Oh like the $40 billion dollars that Trump sent to Argentina? What about the farmer who lost all the immigrants to work there farms and then lost there revenue stream because of the tariffs. What about all the people that are going to be kicked off there healthcare.  Cancer research. This list will go on and on, how is anyone of this American first. The only people in America that are first are the rich getting tax cuts when they already are not paying there far share.  If you look back at American history you will see that America first didn’t work in the 1920’s , we also used tariffs just like we are doing now, it caused the depression!

Zycki11 wrote:
Are you forgetting who we previously had in office? Botched Afghanistan withdrawal was 7 billion alone. We have also spent a total of 185 billion to...

Are you forgetting who we previously had in office? Botched Afghanistan withdrawal was 7 billion alone. We have also spent a total of 185 billion to a worthless war in Ukraine. Don’t even try and spin that. This administration has outperformed in many areas and had lots of work to do in other areas. Guess what? Year 1 of 4. The amount he has achieved makes me happy. But lots of work to do still. 

Healthcare…. The dumbest fucking thing on earth was the ACA by Obama and the subsidies. Well they had a timeline so thanks to the beloved dumb Obama healthcare is going through the roof. Yet the audacity is to blame GOP for the idiotic bill in the first place? Seems backwards.  You talk about billionaires? More billionaires are democratic than republican. More money flows through the Democratic Party than republican. They spent 1.68billion to win the election. That is 600 million more than republicans. And they still got beat on all sectors. 

Healthcare is also predominantly a money laundering machine, much like education. Problem? Doctors get kickbacks and push medication instead of proper things to do. A little sad? Take a pill, worried? Take a pill. Cancer centers are raving with cash flow and nobody bats an eye or thinks why that is happening.


This is also why Bernie has shut the hell up and looks ignorant (remember him taking the bribe money in 2016? I do) Y’all bitch and moan so much you don’t even give things a chance to work out. Nor look at the larger picture. Real change takes sacrifice. 

Stop playing the PR game and simply get down to brass tacks, roll up the sleeves, get shit done. 

Trump has been doing that. He isn’t perfect, but he sure as shit is far better than the looney toons with the rainbow hair and she/he on ministering drugs in office and military. The country has gone to the emotional week and catered to them. Tim to move the pendulum back to reality. 

The general complaints about healthcare and spending are valid, just not the conclusion thinking that this admin is effectively any different. It's a fraud and the people that absolutely hate being fooled over and over by slimy politicians, have been more deeply fooled more than ever by yet another slimy politician. All he did was troll Dems like a low class teenager and people splooshed in their panties for it and then turned the cheek at everything else, but one thing we learned from cheap Jerry Springer Show methods is that people eventually get bored of shiny nonsense that has no substance. The tide is slowly turning. The right vs left corporatocracy billionaire programming is slowly losing its power and people are changing from looking sideways at each other, to looking upstream. People are starting to see, "hey wait, this isn't actually doing anything, my bank account balance isn't going up, debt isn't going down, healthcare still sucks, we're still meddling in other governments, gun laws haven't changed, my wages haven't improved, and the crime in my town is the same". 

4
LoudLove
Posts
3012
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
12/1/2025 10:40am
matt.3150 wrote:
A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture...

A good source I like is ground news , we see what right, central, and left news sights say. Then you can get a clear picture of how each is trying to influence the agenda and see what are the facts. Router, BBC, NPR. The RW will say the left is doing something that the RW is actually doing.  RW will try and take credit for thing the left did right.

LoudLove wrote:
Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and...

Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and you’re sure to find data to support an argument. Or vice versa. 

A claim was made that 60%+ of SNAP benefits were paid to immigrants. A counter argument was made, and rather than support the original thesis, the counter’s source was questioned.  That might work in the world of fake news, but doesn’t work in the real world. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided...

Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided benefits? The truth is, it is way too early to tell the real numbers. So a quick AI search that was provided is not exactly credible when the previous administration is now for inflating numbers and deflating numbers how they see fit. Look no further than job corrections as an example. Also you can research the vaccines and how harmful they are for you, and how they lied about side affects, and actually how the drugs operated to “stop the virus. So in the end, believing something so firmly is not exactly being receptive or observant. It is the opposite.  Some folks, myself included understand that with the crazy last 4 years the tree is going to take a long time to stop shaking. That includes removing illegals and correcting the system. Clearly it needs work. 

It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps and 63% of them are immigrants” without naming a source. Those are oddly specific numbers, indicating that some level of research and analytics were applied. Just curious about the data’s origin. 

Zycki11
Posts
7957
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/1/2025 10:46am
LoudLove wrote:
Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and...

Let’s face it: the last 10 years have been built in labeling anything that doesn’t fit the narrative as “fake news”. Dig around long enough and you’re sure to find data to support an argument. Or vice versa. 

A claim was made that 60%+ of SNAP benefits were paid to immigrants. A counter argument was made, and rather than support the original thesis, the counter’s source was questioned.  That might work in the world of fake news, but doesn’t work in the real world. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided...

Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided benefits? The truth is, it is way too early to tell the real numbers. So a quick AI search that was provided is not exactly credible when the previous administration is now for inflating numbers and deflating numbers how they see fit. Look no further than job corrections as an example. Also you can research the vaccines and how harmful they are for you, and how they lied about side affects, and actually how the drugs operated to “stop the virus. So in the end, believing something so firmly is not exactly being receptive or observant. It is the opposite.  Some folks, myself included understand that with the crazy last 4 years the tree is going to take a long time to stop shaking. That includes removing illegals and correcting the system. Clearly it needs work. 

LoudLove wrote:
It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps...

It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps and 63% of them are immigrants” without naming a source. Those are oddly specific numbers, indicating that some level of research and analytics were applied. Just curious about the data’s origin. 

You realize you are critiquing one side of numbers vs the other right? All sorts of numbers are thrown out, I am not naive enough to believe them all. But I do believe the flood of immigrants was massive and will take a long time to clean up. Either way a fail on Biden and a massive burden on tax payers. Yet nobody complains about that. Funny 

1
7
LoudLove
Posts
3012
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
12/1/2025 10:59am
Zycki11 wrote:
Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided...

Tell Me, how do you equate the flood of immigrants in the previous years? How do you find out how many slip through and are provided benefits? The truth is, it is way too early to tell the real numbers. So a quick AI search that was provided is not exactly credible when the previous administration is now for inflating numbers and deflating numbers how they see fit. Look no further than job corrections as an example. Also you can research the vaccines and how harmful they are for you, and how they lied about side affects, and actually how the drugs operated to “stop the virus. So in the end, believing something so firmly is not exactly being receptive or observant. It is the opposite.  Some folks, myself included understand that with the crazy last 4 years the tree is going to take a long time to stop shaking. That includes removing illegals and correcting the system. Clearly it needs work. 

LoudLove wrote:
It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps...

It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps and 63% of them are immigrants” without naming a source. Those are oddly specific numbers, indicating that some level of research and analytics were applied. Just curious about the data’s origin. 

Zycki11 wrote:
You realize you are critiquing one side of numbers vs the other right? All sorts of numbers are thrown out, I am not naive enough to...

You realize you are critiquing one side of numbers vs the other right? All sorts of numbers are thrown out, I am not naive enough to believe them all. But I do believe the flood of immigrants was massive and will take a long time to clean up. Either way a fail on Biden and a massive burden on tax payers. Yet nobody complains about that. Funny 

Z, all I’m asking is for statistical validation. If you admit the numbers are fabricated, fine.  And are AI-generated results 100% accurate?  Unlikely, but I’m willing to bet they are more rooted in reality. 

R66
Posts
1498
Joined
4/16/2021
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
12/1/2025 11:32am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 1:28pm
byke wrote:
The general complaints about healthcare and spending are valid, just not the conclusion thinking that this admin is effectively any different. It's a fraud and the...

The general complaints about healthcare and spending are valid, just not the conclusion thinking that this admin is effectively any different. It's a fraud and the people that absolutely hate being fooled over and over by slimy politicians, have been more deeply fooled more than ever by yet another slimy politician. All he did was troll Dems like a low class teenager and people splooshed in their panties for it and then turned the cheek at everything else, but one thing we learned from cheap Jerry Springer Show methods is that people eventually get bored of shiny nonsense that has no substance. The tide is slowly turning. The right vs left corporatocracy billionaire programming is slowly losing its power and people are changing from looking sideways at each other, to looking upstream. People are starting to see, "hey wait, this isn't actually doing anything, my bank account balance isn't going up, debt isn't going down, healthcare still sucks, we're still meddling in other governments, gun laws haven't changed, my wages haven't improved, and the crime in my town is the same". 

Thanks to President Trump, violent crime is down by 55% in Memphis. In DC, murders are down 50%

1
9
Zycki11
Posts
7957
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
12/1/2025 11:32am
LoudLove wrote:
It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps...

It is true that calculating exact numbers can be daunting when discussing millions of anything, especially people. However, someone stated “43 million people on food stamps and 63% of them are immigrants” without naming a source. Those are oddly specific numbers, indicating that some level of research and analytics were applied. Just curious about the data’s origin. 

Zycki11 wrote:
You realize you are critiquing one side of numbers vs the other right? All sorts of numbers are thrown out, I am not naive enough to...

You realize you are critiquing one side of numbers vs the other right? All sorts of numbers are thrown out, I am not naive enough to believe them all. But I do believe the flood of immigrants was massive and will take a long time to clean up. Either way a fail on Biden and a massive burden on tax payers. Yet nobody complains about that. Funny 

LoudLove wrote:
Z, all I’m asking is for statistical validation. If you admit the numbers are fabricated, fine.  And are AI-generated results 100% accurate?  Unlikely, but I’m willing...

Z, all I’m asking is for statistical validation. If you admit the numbers are fabricated, fine.  And are AI-generated results 100% accurate?  Unlikely, but I’m willing to bet they are more rooted in reality. 

In what reality is my point? How do you quantify? Any numbers given are arbitrary at best. That’s the point. Any singular illegal person utilizing tax payer dollars in this country is too many with the problems we are facing within the walls. 

1
5
12/1/2025 11:39am
BH_84 wrote:

More peace? What peace? Gaza? Nope. Ukraine? Swing and a miss. He’s done dick all for peace and now he’s escalating towards invading Venezuela. 

I see one of two things going on here. Either you were too cheap to pay for the watermark free version of that photograph but still...

I see one of two things going on here. Either you were too cheap to pay for the watermark free version of that photograph but still wanted to use it for yourself, or Glory Days Motorsports Photography is actually your company and you thought that was the best photo to advertise your services. Either way, it's a questionable choice. 

Anyway, I miss the Obama double tap drone strike days. I think Obama's strikes were a little cooler because they were on land and in densely populated areas. The real way to land a double tap strike is to hit a building, then wait 15-20 minutes for civilian emergency services to show up. This boat bombing bullshit ain't gonna cut it.

Here's a Florida Law Review Article about double tap drone strikes: Double-Tap Warfare: Should President Obama Be Investigated for War Crimes?

And here's an article from the Harvard Political Review that accuses Obama of being a war criminal for double tap strikes: Barack Obama Is A War Criminal - Harvard Political Review

 

BH_84 wrote:
I bought the photo, it was too big a file to use, but the lower res sample version wasn't.So did Obama specifically order this, like Hegseth...

I bought the photo, it was too big a file to use, but the lower res sample version wasn't.

So did Obama specifically order this, like Hegseth allegedly did? If so, yeah, put him on the stand. You think i give a rat's ass if he goes to jail for something he did? This is the difference, I'm fine with anyone facing justice for what they've done, and I don't make excuses for them. 

Well Obama was President, and Hegseth is secdef—or secwar now, whatever—so we can’t really draw a parallel. For Obama, Panetta, Hagel, and Carter filled the equivalent roles. None of them were charged with war crimes. Nor were CIA directors John Brennan or David Patraes. As far as the drone strikes were concerned, there really wasn’t any fallout. Some corners of the politisphere were unhappy about it, particularly after Obama admitted in his memoir that he was using these strikes to kill people. But we didn’t see anything like what we’re seeing now. 

I think it’s relevant to compare the actual strikes. The Obama double taps involved striking targets in territories where no open conflict existed. Namely Pakistan and the Arabian peninsular countries. The double tap was named such because the strike would hit the intended target once, then wait 20-30 minutes specifically for civilian emergency services to arrive, and then strike them again. That’s essentially terrorism. 

Here, we’re complaining about a strike on a single target deemed to be belligerent, then a second strike on remaining portions of those same targets. The land based double taps are more offensive to me, but they did not create the dramatic response we’ve seen for the boat strikes. 

Are either of them good? I don’t really think so. I personally do not think a president should be using these strikes, but I can’t make a legal argument against it. My contention with this story is that it, much like all the others we see about Trump, presents these actions as indicia of a totalitarian administration. I think this is more business as usual, but the news media is abusing the general public by lying to everyone about this being some unprecedented dictatorial power grab. 

1
2
soggy
Posts
9061
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
12/1/2025 11:42am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 11:57am
TeamGreen wrote:

Psssst…

Maybe you should fix your own before running your mouth about someone-else’s government.

I’m jus’ knowin’…

Pssst…


People that have no skin in the game usually have the best perspective. 

I’m just sayin…


And what a dumb comment. Like L2S can single handedly do anything to fix the govt. he has the same power as you. Which is as near to none as you can get. 

3
4
byke
Posts
3180
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
12/1/2025 12:16pm Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 12:17pm
byke wrote:
The general complaints about healthcare and spending are valid, just not the conclusion thinking that this admin is effectively any different. It's a fraud and the...

The general complaints about healthcare and spending are valid, just not the conclusion thinking that this admin is effectively any different. It's a fraud and the people that absolutely hate being fooled over and over by slimy politicians, have been more deeply fooled more than ever by yet another slimy politician. All he did was troll Dems like a low class teenager and people splooshed in their panties for it and then turned the cheek at everything else, but one thing we learned from cheap Jerry Springer Show methods is that people eventually get bored of shiny nonsense that has no substance. The tide is slowly turning. The right vs left corporatocracy billionaire programming is slowly losing its power and people are changing from looking sideways at each other, to looking upstream. People are starting to see, "hey wait, this isn't actually doing anything, my bank account balance isn't going up, debt isn't going down, healthcare still sucks, we're still meddling in other governments, gun laws haven't changed, my wages haven't improved, and the crime in my town is the same". 

R66 wrote:

Thanks to President Trump, violent crime is down by 55% in Memphis. In DC, murders are down 50%

Kind of, like if you went into an severely overweight person's house and threw out all their bad food for a week and they lose a  few pounds and then you tout that as a major success, but unless you actually address the root problems, it's just a temporary bandaid and things go right back the moment you leave. 

There are two angles to reducing crime, proactive and reactive. Proactive would be adding various programs for kids, or having various job programs for adults, basically all the stuff you do to stop crime before it happens. Reactive is everything to do with law enforcement and the judicial system etc., all the things you do to handle crime after it happens. All Trump did was temporarily throw money at the reactive side while doing nothing for the proactive side. Take the SF Bay area for example, they could cut crime in half by doubling law enforcement and adding more prisons/jails, but.....nobody wants to pay for it. That's what Trump did, he paid for it with Federal dollars and it's not sustainable. 

We're going to add nearly two trillion to debt this year and we're going to add nearly two trillion to debt next year. Something better and smarter than "eff the Dems lololol" is needed to actually change numbers. If debt were measured in feelings currency, we'd be crushing it, but since we measure in USD, he's just another two-trillion-a-year president like all the others. 

4
3
BH_84
Posts
396
Joined
10/28/2024
Location
Cameron, ON, CA
12/1/2025 12:29pm Edited Date/Time 12/1/2025 12:38pm
Well Obama was President, and Hegseth is secdef—or secwar now, whatever—so we can’t really draw a parallel. For Obama, Panetta, Hagel, and Carter filled the equivalent...

Well Obama was President, and Hegseth is secdef—or secwar now, whatever—so we can’t really draw a parallel. For Obama, Panetta, Hagel, and Carter filled the equivalent roles. None of them were charged with war crimes. Nor were CIA directors John Brennan or David Patraes. As far as the drone strikes were concerned, there really wasn’t any fallout. Some corners of the politisphere were unhappy about it, particularly after Obama admitted in his memoir that he was using these strikes to kill people. But we didn’t see anything like what we’re seeing now. 

I think it’s relevant to compare the actual strikes. The Obama double taps involved striking targets in territories where no open conflict existed. Namely Pakistan and the Arabian peninsular countries. The double tap was named such because the strike would hit the intended target once, then wait 20-30 minutes specifically for civilian emergency services to arrive, and then strike them again. That’s essentially terrorism. 

Here, we’re complaining about a strike on a single target deemed to be belligerent, then a second strike on remaining portions of those same targets. The land based double taps are more offensive to me, but they did not create the dramatic response we’ve seen for the boat strikes. 

Are either of them good? I don’t really think so. I personally do not think a president should be using these strikes, but I can’t make a legal argument against it. My contention with this story is that it, much like all the others we see about Trump, presents these actions as indicia of a totalitarian administration. I think this is more business as usual, but the news media is abusing the general public by lying to everyone about this being some unprecedented dictatorial power grab. 

Haven't looked into the Obama strikes, but I have some reading to do now, appreciate that. If true, then yeah, trial, war crimes, arrest them all. 

Having said that, like I said before, the double tap on shipwrecked people is akin to strafing ejected fighter pilots. Goes against all written and unwritten rules about honour in war. 

 

Rule 47.

Attacks against Persons Hors de Combat

 

Rule 47. Attacking persons who are recognized as hors de combat is prohibited. A person hors de combat is:
(a) anyone who is in the power of an adverse party;
(b) anyone who is defenceless because of unconsciousness, shipwreck, wounds or sickness; or
(c) anyone who clearly expresses an intention to surrender;
provided he or she abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to escape.

 

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule47

R66
Posts
1498
Joined
4/16/2021
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
12/1/2025 1:38pm
byke wrote:
Kind of, like if you went into an severely overweight person's house and threw out all their bad food for a week and they lose a...

Kind of, like if you went into an severely overweight person's house and threw out all their bad food for a week and they lose a  few pounds and then you tout that as a major success, but unless you actually address the root problems, it's just a temporary bandaid and things go right back the moment you leave. 

There are two angles to reducing crime, proactive and reactive. Proactive would be adding various programs for kids, or having various job programs for adults, basically all the stuff you do to stop crime before it happens. Reactive is everything to do with law enforcement and the judicial system etc., all the things you do to handle crime after it happens. All Trump did was temporarily throw money at the reactive side while doing nothing for the proactive side. Take the SF Bay area for example, they could cut crime in half by doubling law enforcement and adding more prisons/jails, but.....nobody wants to pay for it. That's what Trump did, he paid for it with Federal dollars and it's not sustainable. 

We're going to add nearly two trillion to debt this year and we're going to add nearly two trillion to debt next year. Something better and smarter than "eff the Dems lololol" is needed to actually change numbers. If debt were measured in feelings currency, we'd be crushing it, but since we measure in USD, he's just another two-trillion-a-year president like all the others. 

So it is the democrat mayors of these cities fault for not instituting these programs before crime got out of control. Thank goodness for President Trump to step in and save lives. Even if he only saved one life, it would be worth it. Murders are down by 50%, that is a lot of lives saved. I like your analogy though. Arresting the bad guys and getting them off the street to reduce crime  is just like taking food away from a fat, lazy, snap recipient  person and they lose weight because of it. Good one!

3
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