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15 lbs of the difference between a 125 and a 250 2T, some of that difference is rotating mass but regardless the difference is night and day.
I used to race against this really heavy guy, but here was an exceptional seat bouncer. I'd swear his tires only touched the ground once in a while.
Yes, weight distribution matters a lot. We could get into the weeds on this stuff with rotating mass, polar moment, etc., but the core statement of lighter is better is still true regardless of all that. Sure, we can dream up a scenario where a bike has really heavy wheels and a super light engine/chassis and that lightweight bike might be worse than a "normal" heavier bike. But that's an absurd scenario that just doesn't exist.
Weight centralization is really important as that's what makes a heavy bike feel light. Compare that bike, which has a lower polar moment of inertia, to another bike weighing the same, but with less centralized mass. The first bike will feel lighter and be easier to ride. That's important. But they'll both take the exact same amount of power to accelerate or decelerate (ignoring rotating weight differences between the two, and that's another conversation, in which lighter is still better).
Power is directly proportional to mass (P=m*a*V). A lighter bike takes less power to accelerate and will always be better than a heavier bike at accelerating and braking. That bike will be faster on the start, faster exiting a corner, faster braking in the next corner, etc. all around the track. This can not be argued, it's solid physics. It's correct on paper and correct on the track. And we can easily calculate it; using the example from earlier, saving 10 lbs on a bike:
Let's assume a 240 lb bike can have 10 lbs removed from it (4.17% lighter). With a rider weight of 180 lbs all geared up, you have one bike and rider weighing in at 420 lbs and another weighing in at 410 lbs, which dilutes that weight difference to 2.4%. But, power is directly proportional to that weight difference, so the lighter bike/rider effectively has a 2.4% power increase over the other bike/rider. That's A LOT! Would you argue an exhaust or ECU that adds 2.4% more power evenly across the entire power curve isn't significant or noticeable? And that doesn't even take into account the benefits of less weight to rider fatigue.
You couldn't have said it better. There is a lot more to a bike feeling "light" on the track than just lbs on a scale lol. Crank inertia is a huge factor with the light feeling. I dont give a shit how light you get your 450 on a scale its not going to feel like a 250.
Seriously, spending $ on Ti bolts, footpegs, axles, lighter seat foam, battery, etc seriuosly has to be one of the lowest "bang for buck" propositions for moto.
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If you're going to pursue shaving some pounds off the scooter, focus on unsprung mass. Wheels, hubs, axels, linkage bolts, springs etc.
1 thing that I found interesting was that the current-gen ('25) YZ450F felt much lighter than I anticipated, being that I'm a 250F guy. Not sure how much of that comes at the cost of the busy front end. It searched quite a bit and almost gave the sensation that the head-nut was loose (it wasnt.) So I wonder if I were to buy a '26 with the calmer chassis, and have the sag 102-105ish, if the stability/calmness would return at the expense of that "450" feel also returning? Not sure what the one I rode was set at but was set for a bigger guy. The new bike supposedly feels really connected, which I like (in theory.) But I did appreciate how the '25 almost didn't feel like a 450 in many cases, since it flicked around so easy.
Light weight? Flickable? This is why Professional125 and myself ride these….
I believe it was something along those lines and not helping with bikes in the future, but it’s been a while since all of that so I can’t fully remember. I do remember the OEM’s were not happy with it and it basically wasn’t going to happen again.
I was really surprised with the 2022+ CRF250R, they are much of the same. I've got an 05 CR125 and 22 CRF250 in my garage my son owns and I've ridden then both back to back along with my 2018 TC250 and 22 CRF450. That's the only 250f I've every enjoyed.
round two, European bikes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GPhXw2BCv4
Definitely wasnt the result I was expecting after watching it. I'm a bit curious about a couple details, they mentioned they have the 26 TF-450X which hasn't been released yet as far as I know. It doesn't even have a price on Triumph US website, also Keefer mentioned the new KTMs aren't out until November either.
Not a super huge deal to me personally, I figure maybe they got some early. I'm thinking about the Triumph anyway and was happy to hear some thoughts about it from a varied group.
Pit Row
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