EPO

7eleven
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9/9/2025 5:00pm
The number of retired pros admitting that they ran big bores to compete is pretty high and at the same time unsurprising.  I don’t think we...

The number of retired pros admitting that they ran big bores to compete is pretty high and at the same time unsurprising.  I don’t think we will have retired top tier guys admitting it, but if we found out a handful were using PEDS I bet it wouldn’t feel all that surprising.

Think early 2000's. No testing for performance drugs only recreational. You would not be surprised who was all in. 

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1
9/9/2025 5:04pm
The number of retired pros admitting that they ran big bores to compete is pretty high and at the same time unsurprising.  I don’t think we...

The number of retired pros admitting that they ran big bores to compete is pretty high and at the same time unsurprising.  I don’t think we will have retired top tier guys admitting it, but if we found out a handful were using PEDS I bet it wouldn’t feel all that surprising.

7eleven wrote:

Think early 2000's. No testing for performance drugs only recreational. You would not be surprised who was all in. 

Totally.  I know several friends and gym buddies on PEDS (ie:gear) just to lift casually and make gains.


If it could be the difference between making $150k or $3 million, the smart choice would be on trying to do them unfortunately. Albeit a major risk.

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1
Gravel
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9/9/2025 6:22pm

Do they test for EPO right now.. what are the chances the top guys are taking it? I’m giving minimum 50 percent chance. 

davis224 wrote:

I'd say more like 49.7% and I'll argue that to my grave!

Ramrod wrote:

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. 40% of all people know that...

Don’t forget, 87.3% of statistics are made up on the spot

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9/9/2025 7:20pm

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

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5

The Shop

9/9/2025 7:36pm
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

PEDs are often cycled and can be used methodically to miss tests 


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-32983932.amp

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1
9/9/2025 7:44pm
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

PEDs are often cycled and can be used methodically to miss tests 


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-32983932.amp

Unfortunately this is very true. Although, if they were to get caught using something extreme their career would be over and erased from the record books. That’s probably the main deterrent.

1
JazzyJJ
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9/9/2025 7:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2025 7:47pm
englishman wrote:
I’m no “ know it all “ but I raced MX to a pro level back in the ‘80’s / early ‘90’s in the UK then...

I’m no “ know it all “ but I raced MX to a pro level back in the ‘80’s / early ‘90’s in the UK then raced bicycles to Pro/1 level in France & Australia in the ‘ 00’s . 

That in mind and knowing what I do I don’t really see EPO providing enough upside in MX to risk getting caught. Steroids, HGH etc etc yes I could see that but artificially bumping your hematocrit levels in MX? 

I know it means you can beat the shit out of yourself and recover like magic but MX beats your body down differently to cycling ( nearly every pro cyclist I knew back then was on it ) but there are other recovery aids that wouldn’t see you get banned if caught .

I will also add that I know a few ex cyclists ( here in the US) that loved to juice in their racing days and that became trainers for several pro MX guys . These ex cyclists mindsets were “I don’t care what it is if it MIGHT help stick the needle in” so with that mentality….  

 

Isn't Tommy D training some moto guys?

 

As I understand it EPO also helps you with endurance and top end efforts. If so that would be a big help. Really anything that can increase your work tolerance is going to have a positive effect on training and racing.

1
9/10/2025 6:11am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

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englishman
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9/10/2025 7:47am
UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

Not sure how it is now as I quit racing bicycles a long time ago but back then the only way to “ detect EPO” was by doing a hematocrit level test. They had a range based on normal values and if you were outside it you were presumed to be on EPO.

I remember when it first came on the scene - nobody understood it so we’re dosing up on it then dying in their sleep because it thickens the blood and they were just arbitrarily shooting all kinds of doses. They finally figured out you needed to take blood thinners with it … 

Not sure if you remember a pro team called Phonax back in the day ? The entire team with drew from the Tour one year because “ the chef cooked bad food and everyone went down with blood poisoning” … I knew guys on the team at that time . They were blood doping at the time and the idiot “ team doctor “ hadn’t stored the blood bags at the correct temp so on the rest day when he infused with the now tainted blood every rider ended up sick AF . LOL . 

 

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Adam43
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9/10/2025 7:48am

They don't pay people to drive RVs around the country so they can have a nice place to sit between motos..

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yak651
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9/10/2025 8:07am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given a heads up for what was going to go down

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2
Gary Duck
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9/10/2025 8:33am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

I don't know which UpTiTe you be, but I find it humorous that over and over this subject comes up and you continue to explain it, yet the masses think you're making shit up or something. It's so obvious if you're paying attention that it shouldn't need any explanation. 

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Gary Duck
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9/10/2025 8:37am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

yak651 wrote:
What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given...

What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given a heads up for what was going to go down

I thought that was when his personal nurse showed up, oblivious, and was asking where to find James because he/she was there to administer his IV fluids. Maybe I remember wrong.. 

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OwenJakes
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9/10/2025 8:54am

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

1
3strokemx
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9/10/2025 9:00am
OwenJakes wrote:

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

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OwenJakes
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9/10/2025 9:02am
OwenJakes wrote:

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

3strokemx wrote:
The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do...

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

Very interesting. If you live at elevation do you also develop the thicker blood as well? Correct me if I’m not understanding that rightly. 

1
FreshTopEnd
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9/10/2025 9:04am

Pretty sure they have been able to distinguish exogenous from endogenous EPO for some time now.

EPO testing

Unless everyone is tested every week (financially impossible in this sport) drug testing always will be a crap shoot

3
JazzyJJ
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9/10/2025 9:36am
OwenJakes wrote:

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

3strokemx wrote:
The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do...

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

OwenJakes wrote:

Very interesting. If you live at elevation do you also develop the thicker blood as well? Correct me if I’m not understanding that rightly. 

Yes, living at elevation will do the same thing though it won't take you to 60%+ like some of the supercharged cyclists were getting to in the 90s(allegedly). No days cyclists for example go stay at elevation for a few weeks before big race blocks/grand tours

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Timo
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9/10/2025 10:44am Edited Date/Time 9/10/2025 10:44am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

yak651 wrote:
What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given...

What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given a heads up for what was going to go down

Gary Duck wrote:
I thought that was when his personal nurse showed up, oblivious, and was asking where to find James because he/she was there to administer his IV...

I thought that was when his personal nurse showed up, oblivious, and was asking where to find James because he/she was there to administer his IV fluids. Maybe I remember wrong.. 

There's no rule against breaking the rules...

They can get an IV after the second moto without issues correct? 

1
9/10/2025 10:50am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

yak651 wrote:
What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given...

What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given a heads up for what was going to go down

Wow. I didn’t know about that. Definitely not a good sign.

JBlain619
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9/10/2025 10:50am
UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

So everyone that has stomach issues is on EPO? 

GTFOH!

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9/10/2025 11:04am Edited Date/Time 9/10/2025 11:12am
UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

JBlain619 wrote:

So everyone that has stomach issues is on EPO? 

GTFOH!

No, EPO doesn’t cause stomach issues. 

 Some Masking agents for PEDs do
Yep, I’m full of shit, it’s just coincidence that a lot of pro riders seem to have random stomach issues. 

 

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2
9/10/2025 11:11am
OwenJakes wrote:

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

Simple terms, it oxygenates the blood and keeps the muscles adequately fueled. 

5
9/10/2025 11:13am
yak651 wrote:
What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given...

What about the time he didn’t race the second moto at Millville because the tester showed up at the entrance asking for him and was given a heads up for what was going to go down

Gary Duck wrote:
I thought that was when his personal nurse showed up, oblivious, and was asking where to find James because he/she was there to administer his IV...

I thought that was when his personal nurse showed up, oblivious, and was asking where to find James because he/she was there to administer his IV fluids. Maybe I remember wrong.. 

Timo wrote:

There's no rule against breaking the rules...

They can get an IV after the second moto without issues correct? 

No issues after motos, but most factory guys were getting IVs in between motos. 

1
1
jmc2
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9/10/2025 11:54am Edited Date/Time 9/10/2025 7:56pm

Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes, etc.

2
3strokemx
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9/11/2025 4:57am
3strokemx wrote:

Pretty sure Prado is on EPO. 
 
Entertaining any Potential Offers

That would be EAPO. You can’t just remove a word to make an acronym work. 

EPO is an initialism.  An acronym uses the initials to make a word.

Ricky is the GOAT = acronym.
Rodbell does HVAC = initialism.

3strokemx
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9/11/2025 5:30am Edited Date/Time 9/11/2025 6:33am
OwenJakes wrote:

What does EPO even do functionally for athletes?

3strokemx wrote:
The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do...

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

OwenJakes wrote:

Very interesting. If you live at elevation do you also develop the thicker blood as well? Correct me if I’m not understanding that rightly. 

I wouldn't necessarily say thicker blood, but because there is less oxygen available at elevation, their body adapts by having a higher ratio of (oxygenated) red blood cells.

The pharmaceutical use of EPO is for people with a ratio of higher white blood cell count, this is often due to chemo therapy or HIV treatments.  The treatment drugs cause cell death, so the red (oxygenated) blood cells don't regenerate as fast as they are used. The EPO is a stop gap measure that props up the body to create more red blood cells.   

Similarly, if you're sick and tested your blood you'd find you have a higher white blood cell count than when you feel well.

EPO probably works great for sport performance, but like any synthetic hormone if you start to disrupt the bodies natural balance you'll run into other issues like heart attacks, gut issues, mood, sleep, etc.  We have very intricate hormone cycles and as far as I've read noone totally understand them.  

Unfortunately diabetes is very common so people are aware of insulin, which is also used as a pharmaceutical hormone therapy. I've heard of athletes using insulin to help lose weight but the cost is a wide range of health consequences in the coming years, like developing diabetes as their natural production of insulin drops off.

Natural strategies that enhance Red Blood Cell ratio include:
Training at aerobic threshold, this is where you just start to get out of breath, (General heart rate range is 220 - your age = X,    Threshold Range =  X*.91 to X*.95)
Living at altitude, usually 4 weeks minimum.
Chlorophyll supplement (the structure of chlorophyll is eerily similar to blood, and it contains copper which is necessary to utilize iron to make RBC)
Drinking blood 
Eating liver

1
englishman
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9/11/2025 7:54am
jmc2 wrote:
Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes...

Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes, etc.

When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to counter act the blood thickening.

A lot of pros would wear HRM’s to bed with alarms set to go off if BPM went low. 

One of my buddies recounts a story of when the peloton ( he was a pro ) were staying in a hotel during the Vuelta I think it was and one very well known pro was spotted in the middle of the night running up and down the hall to get his BPM up - 100% true story. 

Bjarne Riis had a nickname of “ Mr 60% “ because his hematocrit level was always around 60% , which is insanely dangerous but there we go ..,

A lot of rumor / speculation / hypothesis around HGH abuse and incidences of cancer amongst certain ex pro cyclists.

5
JazzyJJ
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9/11/2025 8:10am
jmc2 wrote:
Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes...

Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes, etc.

englishman wrote:
When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to...

When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to counter act the blood thickening.

A lot of pros would wear HRM’s to bed with alarms set to go off if BPM went low. 

One of my buddies recounts a story of when the peloton ( he was a pro ) were staying in a hotel during the Vuelta I think it was and one very well known pro was spotted in the middle of the night running up and down the hall to get his BPM up - 100% true story. 

Bjarne Riis had a nickname of “ Mr 60% “ because his hematocrit level was always around 60% , which is insanely dangerous but there we go ..,

A lot of rumor / speculation / hypothesis around HGH abuse and incidences of cancer amongst certain ex pro cyclists.

I also heard they would wake up every hour or two and spin on a spin bike for a bit. Wild times man 

3

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