Appeals court upholds trade court ruling on tariffs

LoudLove
Posts
2937
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
9/9/2025 9:16am

We all agree that tariffs are best approached using sound economic principles and directed at specific services/industries. Trump’s rather haphazard approach lacked detail but certainly got everyone’s attention.  The initial onslaught was the stick, and the subsequent scaling back the carrot.  While somewhat reckless, Trump’s strategy is not without merit. It’s a gamble, but that’s been his approach his entire life. 

2
6
byke
Posts
3089
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/9/2025 11:20am

The more narrow the targeting the better, all the way down to the individual company, but at that point we should just nut-up and ban the company. Tariffs are for when you want Americans to pay you for looking tough without really being tough. Tariffs are like a t-shirt with abs printed on it. 

2
1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
9/9/2025 12:25pm

Any word on when this goes before scotus?

TheGreat
Posts
157
Joined
3/26/2025
Location
Lincoln, NE, USA
9/9/2025 12:26pm
early wrote:
Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items. As...

Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items. 

As you pointed out there's many different factors that go into the economics of everything including manufacturing here. You should check out the Abundance Movement that's emerging as kind of a pivot away from Woke mainly among the center left. It centers on reducing regulation and embracing classical liberal values. The leftists, socialists and commies hate it.

ToolMaker wrote:
"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."While...

"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."

While that's mostly true, if the tariffing government is bringing in a lot of $$s from tariffs, they can lower the tax rate of the local company.

This is not a single step fix, it's one step in the right direction. Trump is getting a lot of commitments to build factories in the USA. And what stupid future president will give our jobs away again after they are established here? Political suicide.

early wrote:
Kinda the same vibe regarding using tariffs to lower taxes, no?As with anything the government says, I'll believe the factories get built when I see them. 

Kinda the same vibe regarding using tariffs to lower taxes, no?

images 33.jpeg?VersionId=4IuE

As with anything the government says, I'll believe the factories get built when I see them. 

it's as comical as doge's claims

shit aint happening.  who would invest in the US right now lol.

1
1

The Shop

TheGreat
Posts
157
Joined
3/26/2025
Location
Lincoln, NE, USA
9/9/2025 12:27pm
LoudLove wrote:
We all agree that tariffs are best approached using sound economic principles and directed at specific services/industries. Trump’s rather haphazard approach lacked detail but certainly got...

We all agree that tariffs are best approached using sound economic principles and directed at specific services/industries. Trump’s rather haphazard approach lacked detail but certainly got everyone’s attention.  The initial onslaught was the stick, and the subsequent scaling back the carrot.  While somewhat reckless, Trump’s strategy is not without merit. It’s a gamble, but that’s been his approach his entire life. 

gamble is a really nice way to put it

1
9/9/2025 12:32pm
byke wrote:
The more narrow the targeting the better, all the way down to the individual company, but at that point we should just nut-up and ban the...

The more narrow the targeting the better, all the way down to the individual company, but at that point we should just nut-up and ban the company. Tariffs are for when you want Americans to pay you for looking tough without really being tough. Tariffs are like a t-shirt with abs printed on it. 

Are you kidding? If you wanted very narrow tariffs, you'd need an army of people just to stay on top of it. Companies changing their name, the name of the product, the category. Let's say you want to tariff a can opener. I'd add a narrow flat area and say it's now a screw driver. To easy to circumvent. 

1
1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
9/9/2025 2:15pm
TheGreat wrote:

it's as comical as doge's claims

shit aint happening.  who would invest in the US right now lol.

Like what DOGE claims?

borg
Posts
6899
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA, USA
9/9/2025 2:26pm
burn1986 wrote:

Any word on when this goes before scotus?

Oral arguments scheduled for first week of November. 

Luxon MX
Posts
1393
Joined
11/6/2017
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/9/2025 2:28pm
ToolMaker wrote:
"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."While...

"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."

While that's mostly true, if the tariffing government is bringing in a lot of $$s from tariffs, they can lower the tax rate of the local company.

This is not a single step fix, it's one step in the right direction. Trump is getting a lot of commitments to build factories in the USA. And what stupid future president will give our jobs away again after they are established here? Political suicide.

You don't seem to be the type that would argue our government is efficient?

But by arguing that tariffs will be paid back via lower taxes, isn't that what you're saying? If not, then tariffs will always cost more than what the company will get back in these supposed tax rebates, directly related to the (in)efficiency of the government, right?

1
9/9/2025 2:28pm

Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than not that they would intervene if the Administration did not have a good chance of winning in the end. But that's not stopping the activist judges on the lower federal level and the appeals level.

 

"Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts has handed a temporary victory to President Donald Trump by keeping in place the Trump administration’s freeze on foreign aid for the time being. The decision puts nearly $5 billion in funding on hold."

3
soggy
Posts
8833
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
9/9/2025 2:33pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than...

Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than not that they would intervene if the Administration did not have a good chance of winning in the end. But that's not stopping the activist judges on the lower federal level and the appeals level.

 

"Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts has handed a temporary victory to President Donald Trump by keeping in place the Trump administration’s freeze on foreign aid for the time being. The decision puts nearly $5 billion in funding on hold."

They have to come up with the $3 billion for noem’s arts and crafts project at the border somehow. 

1
avidchimp
Posts
5807
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/9/2025 3:55pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than...

Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than not that they would intervene if the Administration did not have a good chance of winning in the end. But that's not stopping the activist judges on the lower federal level and the appeals level.

 

"Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts has handed a temporary victory to President Donald Trump by keeping in place the Trump administration’s freeze on foreign aid for the time being. The decision puts nearly $5 billion in funding on hold."

soggy wrote:

They have to come up with the $3 billion for noem’s arts and crafts project at the border somehow. 

But it will make the border fence very hot. The most hottest thing you've ever seen. Biggest hot.

9/9/2025 5:45pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than...

Are you tired of winning yet? SCOTUS hands Trump another one. While these all still have to go through the court system, It's more likely than not that they would intervene if the Administration did not have a good chance of winning in the end. But that's not stopping the activist judges on the lower federal level and the appeals level.

 

"Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts has handed a temporary victory to President Donald Trump by keeping in place the Trump administration’s freeze on foreign aid for the time being. The decision puts nearly $5 billion in funding on hold."

soggy wrote:

They have to come up with the $3 billion for noem’s arts and crafts project at the border somehow. 

avidchimp wrote:

But it will make the border fence very hot. The most hottest thing you've ever seen. Biggest hot.

Still not tired of winning?

The US Supreme Court on Tuesday agreed to fast-track President Trump’s tariff case.

The high court will hear arguments the first week of November.

byke
Posts
3089
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/9/2025 6:51pm
byke wrote:
The more narrow the targeting the better, all the way down to the individual company, but at that point we should just nut-up and ban the...

The more narrow the targeting the better, all the way down to the individual company, but at that point we should just nut-up and ban the company. Tariffs are for when you want Americans to pay you for looking tough without really being tough. Tariffs are like a t-shirt with abs printed on it. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Are you kidding? If you wanted very narrow tariffs, you'd need an army of people just to stay on top of it. Companies changing their name...

Are you kidding? If you wanted very narrow tariffs, you'd need an army of people just to stay on top of it. Companies changing their name, the name of the product, the category. Let's say you want to tariff a can opener. I'd add a narrow flat area and say it's now a screw driver. To easy to circumvent. 

Everything has positives and negatives and you're absolutely right, the effort required to do anything legal at the individual level...is gnarly. Of course the downside is that if you make tariffs more broad, then it's just a federal sales tax to feed the government slush fund. And the reason why people buy things overseas, is because they're too expensive here, so adding a tax to make things even more expensive, only tightens the noose on the middle class. You can't win. 

3
9/9/2025 7:25pm
lumpy790 wrote:
toolmaker your math is interesting but .... if the product before tariff that normally cost $13 to get to your door and only had a $7...

toolmaker your math is interesting but .... if the product before tariff that normally cost $13 to get to your door and only had a $7 profit which is a very low 54% markup BTW so now you want them to take away $2.50 of their $7 profits so that's now only a $4.50 profit and roughly a 35% loss?

The goods are not getting cheaper they are increasing in price so are your workers going to work for 35% less the next day to compensate and make up for it? Or Are you going to fire 35% of your employees and get the remaining leftover workers to do 35% more work just to keep your doors open? 

That $2.50 tariff added cost on every single product escalates along the way so it became a $15.5 cost part. now multiply on the distributor markup % that gets tacked on so now that drives the dealers cost higher and now add on the dealers % margin so now retail price is much higher than the original $2.50 tariff that started the escalation gets marked up through several % level increases along the way.

In my rough equations that $15.50 part now including the $2.50 tariff along the way becomes roughly a $3.25 tariff so now that $20 retail part now is a $23.50 retail part over night. 

BTW dealers can not keep up with the daily price increases. If you told a customer on the phone 2 days ag and they now come in to order it and its not more $ and a pissed off customer.

Every business has a minimum % that they markup and that % will not change to a lower % it will stay the same. its the starting cost that escalates it.

 

ToolMaker wrote:
Those were random #s. Now, if every step in the process, they want to keep the same percentage, yes the tariff grows. But there's a lot...

Those were random #s. Now, if every step in the process, they want to keep the same percentage, yes the tariff grows. But there's a lot of stages where it can be absorbed. Does the distributor really need the same percentage profit of the item and the tariff? They could keep their exact same pricing and add a tariff surcharge line item and the tariff does not grow.

soggy wrote:

When someone or a company has an opportunity to make the same amount of money or make less I wonder what they will choose. 

Soggy wrote

"so I guess we just won’t engage in conversation any longer. "

I was so happy when I read this. You know what they say, when something seems too good to be true... I knew it couldn't last.

1
Darrin Willis
Posts
1105
Joined
11/16/2020
Location
Red Deer County, AB, CA
9/9/2025 9:01pm

I predict a long budget shutdown coming up.

9/9/2025 9:33pm

I predict a long budget shutdown coming up.

That will help the US government deficit by reducing government expenditure.

1
1
9/10/2025 7:22am
ToolMaker wrote:
"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."While...

"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."

While that's mostly true, if the tariffing government is bringing in a lot of $$s from tariffs, they can lower the tax rate of the local company.

This is not a single step fix, it's one step in the right direction. Trump is getting a lot of commitments to build factories in the USA. And what stupid future president will give our jobs away again after they are established here? Political suicide.

Luxon MX wrote:
You don't seem to be the type that would argue our government is efficient?But by arguing that tariffs will be paid back via lower taxes, isn't...

You don't seem to be the type that would argue our government is efficient?

But by arguing that tariffs will be paid back via lower taxes, isn't that what you're saying? If not, then tariffs will always cost more than what the company will get back in these supposed tax rebates, directly related to the (in)efficiency of the government, right?

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

3
early
Posts
10011
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
9/10/2025 7:25am

Holy free lunch Batman!

LoudLove
Posts
2937
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
9/10/2025 7:39am
ToolMaker wrote:
"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."While...

"Tariffs don't do anything to lower the cost of doing business or regulatory burden in America. They are meant to raise the market price of items."

While that's mostly true, if the tariffing government is bringing in a lot of $$s from tariffs, they can lower the tax rate of the local company.

This is not a single step fix, it's one step in the right direction. Trump is getting a lot of commitments to build factories in the USA. And what stupid future president will give our jobs away again after they are established here? Political suicide.

Luxon MX wrote:
You don't seem to be the type that would argue our government is efficient?But by arguing that tariffs will be paid back via lower taxes, isn't...

You don't seem to be the type that would argue our government is efficient?

But by arguing that tariffs will be paid back via lower taxes, isn't that what you're saying? If not, then tariffs will always cost more than what the company will get back in these supposed tax rebates, directly related to the (in)efficiency of the government, right?

ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

Where is this “tariff money” coming from?

2
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
9/10/2025 7:56am

So the tariffs will either be cancelled or they won’t be. Any other comments? 

1
Luxon MX
Posts
1393
Joined
11/6/2017
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/10/2025 8:01am
ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. 

First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening, so we have to wait and hope while we pay out money in the meantime…

Second, if they do, the tariff income has to cycle through the government inefficiency loop before it comes back. Therefore it must be less money coming back than what comes out. You can view this as punishment for those who import more as it will harm them more, but what about things that have to be imported as they’re simply not made or available here? And what about things that simply cost more now? USA made aluminum has gone up ~20% this year, mostly tariff related. 

And third, tariffs are taxes paid by EVERYONE. Tax breaks only apply to those making a profit. Most new businesses, especially small businesses, are not profitable as they get up and running. So they’re taxed via tariffs, but don’t see any benefit to tax breaks. Further, tax breaks only really have a significant benefit as profits soar. Companies with small profits (MANY of them) will not see much benefit to tax breaks. Big companies with high profits will see a benefit. So, once again, this is a plan to benefit large companies at the expense of everyone else. 

4
avidchimp
Posts
5807
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
9/10/2025 8:30am
ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

Luxon MX wrote:
To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening...

To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. 

First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening, so we have to wait and hope while we pay out money in the meantime…

Second, if they do, the tariff income has to cycle through the government inefficiency loop before it comes back. Therefore it must be less money coming back than what comes out. You can view this as punishment for those who import more as it will harm them more, but what about things that have to be imported as they’re simply not made or available here? And what about things that simply cost more now? USA made aluminum has gone up ~20% this year, mostly tariff related. 

And third, tariffs are taxes paid by EVERYONE. Tax breaks only apply to those making a profit. Most new businesses, especially small businesses, are not profitable as they get up and running. So they’re taxed via tariffs, but don’t see any benefit to tax breaks. Further, tax breaks only really have a significant benefit as profits soar. Companies with small profits (MANY of them) will not see much benefit to tax breaks. Big companies with high profits will see a benefit. So, once again, this is a plan to benefit large companies at the expense of everyone else. 

While this is an excellent breakdown of what this really is, don't even waste your time Billy. He thinks it's a good thing every day American's are paying a shadow tax to subsidize mega corporations with nice tax breaks.

4
9/10/2025 9:04am
ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

Luxon MX wrote:
To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening...

To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. 

First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening, so we have to wait and hope while we pay out money in the meantime…

Second, if they do, the tariff income has to cycle through the government inefficiency loop before it comes back. Therefore it must be less money coming back than what comes out. You can view this as punishment for those who import more as it will harm them more, but what about things that have to be imported as they’re simply not made or available here? And what about things that simply cost more now? USA made aluminum has gone up ~20% this year, mostly tariff related. 

And third, tariffs are taxes paid by EVERYONE. Tax breaks only apply to those making a profit. Most new businesses, especially small businesses, are not profitable as they get up and running. So they’re taxed via tariffs, but don’t see any benefit to tax breaks. Further, tax breaks only really have a significant benefit as profits soar. Companies with small profits (MANY of them) will not see much benefit to tax breaks. Big companies with high profits will see a benefit. So, once again, this is a plan to benefit large companies at the expense of everyone else. 

avidchimp wrote:
While this is an excellent breakdown of what this really is, don't even waste your time Billy. He thinks it's a good thing every day American's...

While this is an excellent breakdown of what this really is, don't even waste your time Billy. He thinks it's a good thing every day American's are paying a shadow tax to subsidize mega corporations with nice tax breaks.

You realize China has invested untold amounts of money in film production studios and these tariffs are designed to protect your job too. It's not just an issue of you getting to keep your job because you are the best at it. If the industry shifts to China, you better start learning Chinese if you want to keep doing what you're doing.

TM

1
9/10/2025 9:14am
ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

Luxon MX wrote:
To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening...

To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. 

First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening, so we have to wait and hope while we pay out money in the meantime…

Second, if they do, the tariff income has to cycle through the government inefficiency loop before it comes back. Therefore it must be less money coming back than what comes out. You can view this as punishment for those who import more as it will harm them more, but what about things that have to be imported as they’re simply not made or available here? And what about things that simply cost more now? USA made aluminum has gone up ~20% this year, mostly tariff related. 

And third, tariffs are taxes paid by EVERYONE. Tax breaks only apply to those making a profit. Most new businesses, especially small businesses, are not profitable as they get up and running. So they’re taxed via tariffs, but don’t see any benefit to tax breaks. Further, tax breaks only really have a significant benefit as profits soar. Companies with small profits (MANY of them) will not see much benefit to tax breaks. Big companies with high profits will see a benefit. So, once again, this is a plan to benefit large companies at the expense of everyone else. 

I'm not in disagreement with most of what you're saying, however, I am in disagreement with whether the tariffs are good as a whole to the country. While the cost of the Aluminum has gone up for you, how much does it cost when a Chinese company knocks off your product and sells it on ebay for 1/2 the price and you lose orders? There's good and bad here, we just don't agree on the marker of whether it's good overall or bad overall. But we are so used to buying cheap goods from overseas, that's what gets focused on.

3
early
Posts
10011
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
9/10/2025 9:31am
ToolMaker wrote:
I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the...

I don't see this as our government being efficient or inefficient. Trump has repeatedly said he wants lower tax rates for companies that manufacture in the US. While he can't do that on his own, it's highly unlikely he gets his way with congress if the national debt keeps going up with rocket fuel. But if he's bringing in a decent chunk of change with tariff money, he will have a better chance of success with his wishes. Operating at a lower tax rate, you can make the same after tax profit selling at a lower price point, yes or no?

Luxon MX wrote:
To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening...

To answer your question directly, no. And that's true for most companies. 

First, you’re making the assumption that these tax breaks will actually happen. Tariffs are happening, so we have to wait and hope while we pay out money in the meantime…

Second, if they do, the tariff income has to cycle through the government inefficiency loop before it comes back. Therefore it must be less money coming back than what comes out. You can view this as punishment for those who import more as it will harm them more, but what about things that have to be imported as they’re simply not made or available here? And what about things that simply cost more now? USA made aluminum has gone up ~20% this year, mostly tariff related. 

And third, tariffs are taxes paid by EVERYONE. Tax breaks only apply to those making a profit. Most new businesses, especially small businesses, are not profitable as they get up and running. So they’re taxed via tariffs, but don’t see any benefit to tax breaks. Further, tax breaks only really have a significant benefit as profits soar. Companies with small profits (MANY of them) will not see much benefit to tax breaks. Big companies with high profits will see a benefit. So, once again, this is a plan to benefit large companies at the expense of everyone else. 

ToolMaker wrote:
I'm not in disagreement with most of what you're saying, however, I am in disagreement with whether the tariffs are good as a whole to the...

I'm not in disagreement with most of what you're saying, however, I am in disagreement with whether the tariffs are good as a whole to the country. While the cost of the Aluminum has gone up for you, how much does it cost when a Chinese company knocks off your product and sells it on ebay for 1/2 the price and you lose orders? There's good and bad here, we just don't agree on the marker of whether it's good overall or bad overall. But we are so used to buying cheap goods from overseas, that's what gets focused on.

What prohibits a Chinese knockoff at half price plus 25% wholesale (tariff cost)?

Luxon MX
Posts
1393
Joined
11/6/2017
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/10/2025 10:18am
ToolMaker wrote:
I'm not in disagreement with most of what you're saying, however, I am in disagreement with whether the tariffs are good as a whole to the...

I'm not in disagreement with most of what you're saying, however, I am in disagreement with whether the tariffs are good as a whole to the country. While the cost of the Aluminum has gone up for you, how much does it cost when a Chinese company knocks off your product and sells it on ebay for 1/2 the price and you lose orders? There's good and bad here, we just don't agree on the marker of whether it's good overall or bad overall. But we are so used to buying cheap goods from overseas, that's what gets focused on.

Tariffs can be good for the country, in part by the points you raise here. But in my opinion, blanket, country-based, tariffs are not the solution (and will have an extremely negative effect on the economy). We’ve discussed costs to the company earlier, but in many cases, these costs are passed on to the consumer. And in the event of tax breaks to the company, those savings are not likely to be passed on as well. So tariffs cost general US citizens in the end, especially because A LOT of our everyday purchases are imported goods.

 Chinese knock offs are a non-issue for us. Sure, there are some Chinese triple clamps on eBay for super cheap, but they look it! Anyone in the market for those wasn't in the market for our stuff anyways. Of course this isn't true for all industries, and it's a big problem for some in particular. I would generally make the argument that if another company can make a product better and/or for less cost, then they should be able to sell it (assuming no patent infringement issues). This gets muddy if the Chinese government is subsidizing costs to make their businesses more competitive, which certainly happens in some industries. A couple solutions for all that:

Targeted tariffs - yes this costs money to manage, but it solves the problem without costing everyone money. Apply tariffs to specific industries and specific countries only as needed. 

Ease the process for enforcing patent protection at customs. If an American company holds a patent that is being infringed upon by a foreign competitor, then these products should be stopped at the border and it should be easier for the patent holder to report it and have it stopped. Again, this costs money, but it cost us overall far less than a blanket tariff on various countries. 

This is all a very complex problem. And complex problems rarely call for simple solutions like blanket tariffs. 

3
1
9/26/2025 4:54pm
borg wrote:

Strike 2 on Trump and his stupid tariffs. 

Pulled this from a website. 1 do you believe this is accurate? 2 if so, is this what you expected from Tariffs?

The Department of Commerce released the latest edition of the personal consumption expenditure price index on Friday. It showed that inflation remains stubbornly above the Fed’s two percent target but not because of tariffs. For the second month in a row, the prices of durable goods—those most likely to be influenced by tariffs—fell.

Importantly, this decline is not coming from a lack of demand for durable goods. Things are not falling in price because people aren’t buying them. Real consumer spending—that is, after adjusting for inflation—on durable goods rose by 0.9 percent. People are buying more durable goods at cheaper prices.

This is absolutely devastating to the idea that tariffs are a tax on consumers. Even more devastating to that claim, however, is the evidence from a tariff tracker of prices. The tariff tracker, which is run out of the Pricing Lab at Harvard Business School, shows that since Liberation Day when tariffs were announced, the prices of imported goods in tariff-affected categories are up by less (just 1.13 percent) than domestically produced goods in unaffected categories (up by 1.25 percent). In other words, the stuff directly subject to tariffs has risen by less than the prices of stuff not even indirectly subject to tariffs. If we annualize the gains, tariffed imports are up 2.41 percent and non-tariff affected domestic goods are up 2.76 percent.

But wait. There’s more. Or less, really. The prices of domestically produced goods in categories affected by tariffs—that is, U.S. made goods competing with imports—are down 0.67 percent since Liberation Day. That works out to an annualized decline of 1.42 percent.

If this sort of thing keeps happening, we would not be surprised to see Harvard just shut down the tracker. It’s too embarrassing for the tariff-hating establishment.

1
4
TeamGreen
Posts
37281
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
9/26/2025 6:53pm

Anyways…

How’s the economy doing?

Economic growth?

Inflation? 

2

Post a reply to: Appeals court upholds trade court ruling on tariffs

The Latest