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I’m not aware of a device that measures v02 max while riding. Apple Watch measures it after running, walking, or hiking. This is what you could do as an experiment.
Get your device on and go for a walk. At the conclusion of the walk, check your v02 max.
Spend a couple weeks or month running yourself to the ground on the mx bike; 3x week run 3 45 minute motos at max pace.
Go out for a walk again and retest v02 max.
Your v02 should’ve increased. If not, you weren’t pushing hard enough on the mx bike. The rides should be brutal, punishing, painful, not enjoyable.
There are no shortcuts to increasing v02 max. That’s why it’s the gold standard of fitness. If someone has an elite measurement, they had to earn it.
Being a good, fit runner pays big dividends in moto. Look at how well Jeremy Martin did deep into the second moto. He was in a 3.5hr marathon level of fitness. Running makes you tough, especially if you throw in some heat and humidity.
During my best racing fitness 20-30yrs old, I alternated 10 mile aerobic runs and 5 mile fast/hard runs, plus a bunch of riding. 20 minutes into a hot moto, those running sessions paid off!
Ironman GNCC, and an IXCR race. GNCC was october, IXCR was in july. Can see the difference in HR.
This was Big Bear GP. I’m 40yo. Using Whoop, says V02 is 54. I think this is fairly accurate but wearing strap on bicep, I give it a few % + or -
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20 minute moto on Sunday. This track has an over-under bridge
I'm 54 and use a Garmin chest monitor and Garmin Edge 540. I normally do between 15 and 25 min motos (35 min on a really good day) averaging from 170 to 190 bpm. I have seen spikes of 210 to 215 when I get a nasty kick and almost crash!
Takes roughly10bpm’s more to shave 2-4 sec off of a lap time… suspect many riders don’t push to max on a practice day, they think they do, but nope
Probably a handy rule of thumb for heat and humidity, how much higher does it go to keep the same pace?
In the OP Tickle screen grab he’s maxing around 160? (Edit 167) Suspect if he went Ham or a hot day gonna see 180+
Obviously everyone is different for max HR and adrenaline plays a part
Not Moto, but a cyclocross race I did on Sunday.
How is everyone at 150-170 bpm? 😂 maybe it’s just me but I’m rarely ever on the track and NOT at 180+ BPM
And if I’m trying to go fast I’m usually always at 188-192bpm
Suspect most of those lower HR riders ride longer sessions, find a 85% pace and you probably run shorter sessions and go 95%…
Or they are really fit and we are not
What’s your typical resting HR? I’ve always had higher HR’s than others, and it’s not all fitness related, just biological differences
Max HR is purely genetic. If someone is at 170 and another at 210 doesn't tell you shit. They could both be at 80 or 90% of their generic max heart rate.
That's why it was so useless when they decided to show heart rates in SX a few years ago. Just confusing trying to explain one rider is not in as bad shape compare to another just because his HR is higher at the same time.
Do most people here know their HRMAX backed up with some recent data from a Garmin/Apple/Polar or similar??
If you do, can we play a little game?
First, let’s play this game using the very basic and much debated ‘220-Age’ calculation.
How accurately does yours work out to that formula??
My data from a cyclocross race last Sunday says my max HR was 175bpm. I was pretty blown, I was trying!
I’m 45 yrs old. So 220-45 = 175.
Now show us yours so we can see if that’s accurate for you or a way off.
*I know, I know, someone is going to come along and say “the 220-age formula has been debunked!”
Yeah, I know. I’m just asking IF it’s accurate for you… because it appears to be for me..
we can discuss 5x different formulas later if we care to complicate things..
Have you ever worked out your zones?
What is your age?
What is your highest recorded HR? (Recently)
When you recorded that maxHR, Was that a full on effort? An effort you can sustain for a few seconds before you have to back off?
Its a completely useless formula, because when its wrong it can be much wrong and there is absolutely no way of knowing when its off.
My MaxHR should 10y ago be 185. It was 200-202. Today it should be 175. Well, its still 200-202.
You will easily be 1-2 zones off and that ruins your training. You might as well go by effort instead of HR.
Good thing is, that you can test MaxHR reasonably well yourself. Its a fucking painful 15min, but full doable. If you have a friend there it's better, helping each other.
Better is, spend the 250 USD and get it tested properly.
For me, the 220 minus my age is very accurate. The below graph is from a 10K race I did in May of this year. I was 39 years old, which suggest my max HR is around 181. At the end of the race, at max pace and sprinting for the finish line, my HR went to 179. Really close to what the old school math says my Max HR should be.
You are probably much higher for real max HR.
At the end of 10k, you run out of fuel and stamina prematurely than what you would have done in a threshold based max hr test.
MaxHR test should be done in ~10-15min, slowly increasing incline after first increasing up to max speed. Also for moto we shall use running, not rowing or cycling since maxhr will be 10-15bpm lower there.
Last time I wore my chest HRM I was at 192 bpm on lap 2.
We have a winner!! I knew there would be one from the “it’s useless” brigade!
Listen, I know the theory is well documented to have been debunked.
You say “when it’s wrong, it can be much wrong”
But I put to you, what if it isn’t. (Fully understanding that people have different experiences)
For me, 220-age works out quite accurate. And I’m not the only one. I’ve done plenty of research in to ‘other’ formulas which respected people swear by. Those being:
220-age =
214- (0.8x age) =
205 - (0.5x age) =
212 - (age x 0.77) =
215.4 - (age x 0.9147) =
205.8 - (0.685 x age) =
Add all those totals together 🟰
Divided by 6 to get a ‘mean’ average. =
* if I do those calculations above, the ‘mean’ average for me currently is 177.
* My current 220-age = 175.
*I raced competitively on Sunday & maxed at 175.
So 220-age works out close enough for me, personally as an amateur veteran athlete. I understand it might not for you.
Pit Row
But the problem is you don't know when its wrong 😄.
You have done your own MXHR test to verify it. If you do that, the formula is useless anyway. Without that, you have no idea if you are in wrong zones.
Doing zone 3 or 1 when you are supposed to be i zon 2 throws everything off. Or being in 3 instead of 4 because you are 10 bpm off.
The most frequent misstanke, is not training hard enough on hard days, and not easy enough on base days. And that gets completely thrown off with just 10bpm.
The ones that don't care, they don't need to worry about HR for their seasonal based 2 days a week of training. Just go out and run or whatever. For those who care, it's so unreliable that you don't want to waste years of 3-5 days of training per week and later find out you could have gotten 25-30% more out of your training.
Resting HR is also a good indicator of base fitness. Back in my serious running days, age of 35-40, my resting HR was typically 42-44 with a max of 185-187.
On the mx bike I was seeing average of 170-175 and could do that effort level for 20 min motos without too much strain. 4 motos on race day.
Heat is a big factor especially for larger guys, even in race trim I was 200lbs at 6'3", I cook above 90f. My first marathon I trained for in 70-85 temps. 2 weeks prior to marathon day it got warm, 85F at the start and at 22 miles with mid 90's, I roasted, hit the wall and lost 2mins/mile of pace. Absolute torture for 4 miles.
I have learn that the more base i do (zone 2), the lower resting hr i get. it has the best effect it seems. Zone 4 also some. Zone 3 and 5, almost like it doesn't matter for it.
You can definitely notice that excessive zone 5 is not good for your body. If I ride 3 days a week, my resting heart rate never bottoms out. Speaks some for how important recovery is when we are easily hammering out 180min zone 5 a week, while even pro athletes in other sports are advised to keep it at 45min a week, at max 😄
It’s interesting to see moto vs boxing. Boxing feels like it would be higher but I’m only really getting tired for the last 30 seconds of a 2 minute round. The resting in between isn’t all rest because I’m holding pads for the other guy. We’re fitting in the boxing during lunch at work so it’s quick, hence the 2 minute rounds. But clearly moto is much more strenuous.
The post workout heart rate recovery looks awful in moto but I’m putting the bike on a stand, removing gear, and walking through sand with boots on.
I’m 54, overweight, with early stage Parkinson’s so I could be doing better but all things considered, could be worse. I’m pretty slow on the bike but when hitting pads I can still make the pads pop pretty well, especially with my right (the Parkinson’s affects my left side primarily).
This screenshot is a bicycle ride. They train in Zone 2 on purpose on the bicycle for base aerobic fitness.
In the gym and on the Airdyne bike my max HR is around 175 and I can only sustain for short periods. On the track my max HR on a practice day is 185-195 and in a race as high as 205 and I can sustain for 20 minutes. I’m 45 and my max HR should be 175. I think this sport builds us different
I normally average 145-150 for a 2 hour harescramble of a 2 hour GNCC. Doing a GP or straight moto i average around 170 and max out at 190 or so. 53 yrs old and 56 resting HR
You nailed it. Zone 2 is aerobic and is the BEST way to build base fitness. There is an old saying "to run fast, first you have to learn how to run slow."
My brother did a 3:04 marathon after ONLY training at aerobic heart rates for 7 months. The funny thing that happens is, by sticking to a pure aerobic HR, your speeds get faster and faster as you get fit. You will see large jumps in performance every 3-4 weeks. Even fast 5k and 10k pros train for those by long and SLOW (relatively) runs of 10-15 miles to build the base. Zone 2 builds heart volume, the muscles grow more oxygen receptors, and you save the stored sugars since you are primarily burning fat for fuel. Fat provides something like 9 calories per gram while a gram of sugars, about 4-5 calories.
The BASE is what allows you to go fast in zone 4. Now you can still burn lots of fat and supplement that energy source with the stored sugars in your blood.
Look back to Johnny O'mara, David Bailey, Broc, R.J. - those guys didn't skip run days!
Neither did Jeremy Martin.
I work out in zone 1 and 2 on the bicycle for the past month and a half. My highest recorded HR as of late is about 193, which was from my memory like 97% intensity
I agree with you, you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying/asking.
I’m asking- How accurate is that formula for you?
To know how accurate it is, you must’ve performed a MXGR test to get your number.
THEN do the 220-age calculation and tell us how accurate it is.
For all intents and purposes my competitive race last Sunday when I couldn’t try any harder, was my MXhr test, which produced a max of 175bpm. Which just so happens to be the same number as 220-my age.
So I’m asking how that works out for other people,
I'll chime in... It was an ok place to start, but for me and a small circle of friends who take it serious enough, 220-Age is about 10bpm off.
I started with 220-Age 5 years ago and just kept revising it upward as I went over the max. The moto last year where I hit 192 was absolutely grueling and a battle to the last corner... I almost fell off my bike after the finish. I truly had nothing left. I had to revise my max from the prior, which was 190. Closest I've been this year is 188 or so, but I've had some left in the tank and honestly just haven't measured every race.
Anyway, to me the accuracy is only important if you're serious enough and want make sure you're in the right zones for different types of training and are not well in tune with your body (like being able to feel the difference between zone 2 and zone 3). Additionally, it's important for people who don't like to suffer (lol), or don't understand what their effort truly is. I know a folks who casually workout and somehow always have lengthy zone 4-5 workouts. I know what they're doing and that is not what is actually happening.
Understand. For me as I said, it's very off and most I have asked it's off to the degree you can't use it.
I think it's off for you also. You are not going to get true MaxHR at the end of 40min cycling. You are worn out, have limited adrenaline and for sure all fast twitch muscles are burnt and also the hybrid ones. Probably you could get 10-15bpm more
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