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Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class ? Not to take away from Jett. He’s amazing. But only “younger “ guys right now are Hunter, Chase, & Justin. Tomac, Anderson, Webb, Roczen, etc are all near the end of their careers. Just a thought and a topic for discussion.
That's a valid point but I think what we've seen is Eli, AP and the rest riding as fast as they ever have but they just can't match Jetts pace. When you have Stew, RC, Villo and countless other prior champs and phenoms saying he is the best they've ever seen...its probably true.
Of course, he's not immortal or unbreakable. I'd say that's one of his better attributes...riding up to the edge and seldom needing to push past it.
Yeah , you can “what if” any situation. But he is defiantly the best in this generation for sure. Would of loved to see him with prime tomac tho.
No.
Been watching the sport for 50 years. Jett is a unicorn.
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despite most american members here love to bash on the mxgp series.....the fact is that every year some new talent show up and the renovation of the top teams keeps happening......and even if the pro series is not very well managed, even if their gates are not always full, the sport is still healthy and young talent keeps moving up across national or emx series, giving the pro classes the renovation it needs to keep competitive.....
as for the states side its exactly the opposite, same old same old and if not for foreigners....if you look at who is the next one up, its only Deegan, whenever he moves up......before him only Sexton made it straight up there.....
it shows that in the last 10 years the "amatures" only made 2 potencial champions, Deegan is still on is way !!!!! and looking at all the factory teams on the american paddock, that grows every year with new euro brands, and it doesnt look to be changing anytime soon...there are still a few almost thirty in the 250s to take those spots if they dont bring anyone from abroad......
all the fast kids that come out shinning of "amatures" or "futures" end up burning themselves down on regular injuries, they are really fast and have the best conditions, but they dont know how to race, they cant manage a championship, they dont have one to do it......and that "always send it" atitude looks good on paper, but in reality it just keeps them off the bike longer and more often.....
so yes i also think "things" will get easier and easier for Jett in the next years.... i dont belive Deegan will do better then Sexton in his first 2/3 years in the big class......
Of the latter riders you mentioned, only Tomac and Roczen were a force outdoors. Anderson and Webb never did much on the 450 outdoors. There were times, RC lacked competition, but whether the competition was there or not, Ricky won.
I suspect it’s the same with Jett. He’s going to win no matter who is there. Hopefully the young guns will step up. Guys like Haiden, Davies, perhaps the Coenen’s if they make the move here at some point.
I don't agree that RC lacked competition. He just ground them into the dirt. We are entering that era again with Jett I'm afraid. RC did it with unbelievable fitness and determination. Jett is more of a MC JMB type imho. Point is that there is plenty of talent but Jett is on another level.
He kinda is .. & it's like watching an artist at work.
Seems he possesses the strength & staying power of a Tomac or Sexton & the fluid technique of a JMB or Bailey ; a rare combination of attributes to be sure & evident in the results to date.
Only time will tell if he also has the unwavering determination over time that was RC.
Definitely needed this thread
It does seem like we are in a strange place where the 450 class is mainly old guys. Hunter Lawrence and Chase Sexton are both 25, and they are Jett's two top competitors right now. (For comparison, Villopoto retired after his age 25 season.)
Even some of the other "young" guys in the class are actually old. Hampshire is 29, Justin Cooper is almost 28. At 24, I think Prado is the youngest contender after Jett, but he has nothing for Jett.
However, despite the aging competition, it is still likely that Jett is very fast because we have seen his speed at MX Des Nations against expanded competition.
See I love this healthy discussion. I do agree Jett would probably win anyways. Just a topic I was thinking about.
Also I don’t completely agree with RC not having competition . But I do think it was a perfect storm for him as well with him figuring out fitness training and out working everyone.
True, but he has already lost one stat to both RC and RV !
The 450 class outdoors is anemic as far as serious competitors go and has been for several years. So many of the biggest names haven’t cared about it for a while now. Roczen, Webb, Anderson, and now Sexton, among others, are uninterested in making a serious effort in MX. The class is desperate for young hungry talent to move up, but it’s being held hostage by riders like those mentioned above.
Both RC’s and RV’s (especially RV’s) eras were far deeper for competition in MX and all the factory riders took it seriously then. Presently, it feels more like an optional series for the 450 guys.
Age out rule for the 250 class would be a good thing. Not for everyone, but for the majority and for the new fast kids coming up with no teams to sign with...IMO
I was watching some clips of Tiger Woods when he came on tour years ago. Several well-known "experts" of that era said he was a flash in the pan and would not be dominant for long as the field was too deep. Well, we now know how THAT turned out. I think Jett has the same potential to be a dominant, game-changing rider for years, one that forces everyone else to step up. Even that wasn't enough in Tiger's prime. He was just better.
I'd like to know what Jett's race win percentage is. It's has to be OA like 75%...he's almost perfect in MX alone.
i dont disagree. as much as i loved seeing some older guys win a title craig, hampshire etc. i think it would be a better thing for the younger generation coming in to learn and build. Not race against guys who should of moved up years ago.
Outdoor stat is like 22 out of 23 overall wins or some crazy shit
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He's the best of all time. Those of us who've followed the sport for a long time have been saying this for years, and increasingly it's hard to find an expert on the sport - ex-riders and so on - who disagree.
Glad to see your comment.
I deleted my post because I'm trying to stay out of the petty arguments that are non stop on this board. But, it's true, too many guys stay in the 250 class simply because they can and because they can get paid for it. Can't blame them one bit. Anyone would do he same. Ageing out rule would bring new guys in both classes... and make both more competitive. IMO 🤷♂️
All of your points are valid, however, none of them have any bearing on the issue at hand - namely Jett's dominance. Jett would dominate no matter what happened. He is a singular rider, the likes of which the sport has never seen. Which is why getting to see him ride and elevate the art of motocross and supercross riding is a privilege.
He's won 39 out of 46 motos - 84.78%.
22 out of 23 overalls - 95.65%.
If the entire roster of current 450 riders took MX as serious as they do SX, then no I don’t think Jett would be as dominant outdoors. Do I think he’d be the favorite, yes, but I think we’d see more battles for wins and he wouldn’t have as easy of a time rebounding from bad starts or mistakes.
If you are wondering what I am basing my assessment on, I base it on the fact that when Eli was fairly healthy and committed at the beginning of this MX season, Jett lost motos within a few rounds and looked nowhere near as dominant as he did in ‘23. He looked very beatable with Eli being his main competition. Now that Eli is checked out along with everyone else except Hunter, Jett looks a lot more dominant.
Thing with Jett, too, is youre comparing him to guys who we've seen their all time peaks. Saying, "Peak Tomac vs Jett." Current Jett is comparable to anyone and we've yet to even see his peak. He's 21 and still improving. To geat Jett you have to start with him. '19 Eli on a Kawi would get a 14th place start. You think he could run down Jett from over 10sec back?
Jett is Ronny Lechien without the vices holding him back
From what I've seen...if you're fast enough...you're gonna get a ride. Any 250 kid that can consistently match or beat factory 450 times will get an offer. As long as Webb, AP, Barcia, Eli, and the old dogs are faster than the kids...they keep their rides.
And I think a rider should be able stay in the 250 class as long as he wants to. As long as a team thinks he's good ROI or he foots his own bill. Both classes are "pro". The "amature" ranks are the feeder class for professional motocross.
He's not the best of all-time. That would be Ricky Carmichael who has the stats to back it up. If Jett surpasses those stats, then you can make that claim. Until then, it's just an empty argument. You don't get to just co-opt him as the best when RC has the stats (and Jeremy has them indoors).
I disagree. Turning to the roster of riders argument first, excluding Eli (I'll return to him), I don't think any of them would touch Jett.
One by one:
Anderson: not in a million years
Webb: Not in the same ballpark, or city, or state, or country, or region of the world, or planet, solar system, universe and so on....
Roczen: He may run near the front for awhile, but he wouldn't beat him
As for AP: If he were back to his early season form he still wouldn't beat Jett as Jett is currently riding.
This ties into the Eli argument. I think there's a couple of reasons why he was closer to Jett earlier in the season. First, he'd been practising motocross for quite awhile before the outdoors season started. Jett only had three weeks on the bike and was coming back from a major injury (more major than Eli's). Next, Jett (and Hunter) were still figuring out the bike - they've improved it a lot and consequently are able to go faster. I acknowledge Eli may have a secret injury or something else going on, but even were this not the case, I don't think he'd have anything for this mid-season Jett.
I think a fully up to speed Chase - and Hunter - are the only riders who could potentially beat Jett on occasion going forward (as Hunter just did).
We agree on something… AP, Chase, and Eli are all not clicking right now.
What we don’t agree on… with the 3 above not clicking—I think it 100% makes Jett appear more dominant right now. When two of the three above were healthy to start the season Jett didn’t look like he does currently. As soon as those two, AP and Tomac, took a dive, Jett started looking untouchable right on cue. I can’t ignore that correlation. You can speculate that Jett looked beatable early on only because his bike wasn’t dialed, but the timing of his rise in dominance still lines up with the decline of his main competition (Eli).
I think you’re discounting Roczen, Webb, and Anderson quite a bit. All have beaten Jett in SX and all haven’t given a rats ass about MX for years. Webb and Anderson have never really cared about MX on the 450. But, with Roczen and Webb in particular, I firmly believe if they poured their heart and soul in to MX like they do SX, they’d be battling with Jett. Both are far superior riders to AP and we saw that AP could hold his own. Especially Kenny, he is an all time great outdoors despite what the stats say, and AP is nowhere near his level.
I think Jett has the smoothness and race craft of JMB but then added to that is strength and fitness of RC ... Bailey-like perhaps
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