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The only thing stopping you would be the entry fee haha. Probably cheaper for the flights/bike hire/accommodation and living expenses than it is for just the entry fee. I feel like teams would happily attend all races if the entry fee wasn't an arm and a leg.
The entry fee is 300 euro. That isnt an arm and a leg and isnt stopping it.
If you are from Lommel it is a 27 hour trip (as in non stop driving). It simply makes no sense for a privateer who isnt doing the full championship (since you dont do the fly-aways) to do races in Finland or Turkey.
Just one example of things that have an impact: the dad or friend who joins as your mechanic has to take of a full week off from work due to the travel. That is very doable if you do 3 wildcards a year, but when you do 10+ GPs its impossible for most.
Dude, the entry fee hasn't been a hurdle for years now. Wild card entry fee is about 300€ which in the grand scheme of things is nothing in the budget of a full year of racing.
Many things are wrong in the GPs but the entry fee aint it anymore, that argument is dated.
The problem is that riders with the calibre to ride themselves to a 15th-20th place (with the few rare occassions that we have a full starting gate), don't get any money or recognisition. Cornelius Tondel had a 4th place finish last year at Agueda, and he didn't earn shit. So why bother to keep doing GPs? He now attends a few nationals (with a Swedish based team) and actually earned a bit of money doing so.
In the ideal world, a privateer qualifying for a GP would mean him that he get's break-even on costs being made. Getting into the top 20 would mean that he earns a decent living.
I understand that factory teams go for big rigs and facilities, sure you want to make sure that your sponsors and brand are represented well. But there are instances where even MXGP limits their exposure due to parking restrictions. In Arnhem teams are only allowed to have an 'x' amount of trucks in the paddock. So it shows that it shouldn't be an excuse to host GPs at more decent tracks. The problem is that most tracks/clubs are not willing to go for that financial risk, unless the government steps in. I keep giving Arnhem as an example, as I'm Dutch. But the track owner of Arnhem is known for being wealthy (and crazy) enough to be willing to have that financial risk, and for the past two years it paid off. Maybe there are a few more clubs that have the financial buffer to go that far, but the list isn't too long.
The problem is, this situation is going on for about 20 years. Just look into the results page of MXGP. how many riders were allowed to qualify in 2004? 30? Back then you had 15 GPs, with 2 of them overseas. Now we have 20 GPs with 5 overseas
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My bad I thought the entry fees were still ridiculous. At least that's something they sorted and made better for everyone.
So I mentioned 80's and 90's GPs, and you went straight to the 2000's to say rider numbers were low, when this was actually when Luongo got involved and the current problems started...? You kind of backed up my point there..
The trucks etc aren't the spectators' fault. The push for "professionalism" was instigated by the current regime and look where that's got us. Teams were pushed to ditch the privateer look and be more like F1 and the like. All this was supposed to bring in big money and make the sport richer but all it did was cut the sport off at the knees and make certain people rich. Spectators don't give two shits about who's got the biggest rig.
"The 1990 MXDN had 10,000" visitors. Strange how you cherry-pick that race when the 1986 one had 30,000, 1988 had 40,000 and 1991 had 30,000 (to pick just three of many). All on old school tracks with "no infrastructure" 🙄 I was at the Foxhills 1998 MXDN and there was reportedly 50,000 people there and that place has one road in and out. Maybe it meant queuing to get out and the VIP tent wasn't as big but nobody there would have swapped it for what we have today.
I saw that point about Tondel making some money at the nationals a few times in some topics, so just asking that i understand this correct? Tondel is flying to the US with a mechanic, has to rent a car/van and sleep in hotels (or a rv), has to arrange bikes and parts in the us and he is making money on that trip?
As for the rigs, Grau, Prugnieres and Walvoort do the full championship, all had top 10 finishes in MX2 this season and their teams just showed up with easy-ups and a van in Italy. So its also where do you want to spend your money on
In Finland there were exactly 120 riders who started the weekend so I'm not sure of your maths skills... unless 60 riders had transponders that didn't work of course.
I stopped reading your other facts after reading that.
There were several other motorsport events happening in the same area at the same time. Just 15 kilometers away, the Finnish Rally Championship was running from Friday to Saturday. There were also karting races taking place at a nearby track. All of these events were clearly competing for the same audience.
I was absolutely sure the track was going to be a complete disaster. While it wasn’t exactly good, it turned out to be better than I expected. Crushed sand had been added to the surface, and in some areas the base was still the original hard, rocky ground.
The worst part of the event was the overall atmosphere or lack of it. Spectators being kept behind wire fences definitely didn’t help the vibe. It was also obvious that the organizers had little to no experience with motocross events. Motocross is a completely different world compared to MotoGP or F1 and it just doesn’t work when you try to force it into the same mold.
Luongo was involved in the 90s aswell. MX Action Group, the organiser back then, was his. He sold the rights to Dorna Offroad in 2001-2003 (the years of single moto GP's), only to buy them back in 2004 under a new name, being YouthStream.
well, if Luongo got involved in the 90's and by the early 2000's the rider numbers had dropped as the other guy said, my point still stands about where the rot started 😉
Didn't know that, interesting.
The comparison to F1 is valid though, if you look at what Dorna has done to MotoGP and also now to WSB you can see a very 'Bernie Ecclestone' approach to it all. There are a myriad of problems MXGP has - low viewership, low spectator numbers, shit tracks, poor prep, abysmal safety, expensive tickets, enormous costs for travel in trying to do the whole series... among others! - All of which lay firmly and squarely at the same doors, namely the FIM and the Luongo's. They've all tried and failed to take a similar approach to F1, the only thing they've done well in that regard is making a massive amount of money for themselves in the process with 'a bit of a whiff' around how.
Very true. The problem with following the F1 model is that they extract huge amounts of money out of sponsors by treating them like Royalty at tracks such as Monaco where they can be entertained like Kings in opulent surroundings. That is never, ever going to happen in MX. They're chasing money from people who will never be interested in the sport. They should stop trying and go back to catering for the fans who love the sport come rain or shine.
The current MXGP scene with big trucks but unpaid riders is the epitome of "all fur coat but no knickers"
I went to Namur 3 times and it was about as far away from "suitable" for a GP as you can get. And it was absolutely awesome.
I think to be eligible to buy yourself in requires scoring points or at least taking part in your top national series. Not certain tho, it came up when we were bantering about the same thing with the riding group. It's basically 'get yourself a story to tell' for a grand: "I've scored points in MXGP you know, used to race with Fevbre"
I was just recently watching the 1997 and 1998 mxgp years in recap on YouTube. I’m pretty sure loungo was involved then but he had only the rights to the 250cc championship and the 125 and 500 operated by someone else. Some of the races the crowds weren’t great but aside from maybe 1 or 2 questionable ones, the tracks were absolutely fantastic. Every single one was just unreal. I wished I had been 10 years older and could have gone over then. That was real motocross. But then he got greedy or stupid or both. Either way motocross in Europe and America is not the same. Whoever was doing Sebastian Tortelli’s suspension on his kawi those years was a god. Probably the best handling bike I’ve ever seen and everts bike as well
1997 year in review
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x85deOrbOHs&t=4677s&pp=ygUJMTk5NyBteGdw
A lot of you on here class MXGP as a European championship.
So if you add up EMX plus the MX2 class then you have more then 40 on the gate.
All about perspective people.
Missed that women didnt run this weekend.
Pit Row
The assumption that 40 EMX riders would sign up for MX2 if the EMX250 class wouldn’t exist is based on absolutely nothing.
Infront should give it a long look how to get those strong teams in EMX250 to drop emx and do the same calendar but in MX2.
If the majority of Bud Racing, VHR Yamaha, Fantic, RFME Junior, Dixon, CAT Moto, Kosak, AIT, Dirt Store, Gabriel SS, JM Honda and Ghidinelli would race in MX2 we'd have 40 riders in MX2 at most european GPs, and a lot of these riders would be beating Magnus Smith who is now 20th in MX2 points.
To be honest i have no idea how to make those teams move up though.
yeah that is the big question, how to get those guys to race in mx2
Because that's where you have statistics from. Because in1990 is was run at a small track in Sweden that wouldn't have s chance of running a GP today. You have more visitors today at Swedish GP than the MXoN at that time.
And sorry but things evolve, there is very few coming to the track today ä with car and trailer as it used to be. Everyone have a van, truck or a 30 foot Caravan.
That has shit to do with Infront. Its Just how things evolve.
And it doesn't matter that there was 20 or 40 more riders because the field was the same shit. 5 Great riders, 10 good, 5 ok and the rest was gate fillers getting lapped just as today.
No one I know wants to go back to a shitty local race level for world championships. That's just mentality of people that doesn't like things to evolve.
And regarding the money you are just wrong. There are multi time world champions that could barerly afford to retire from their time after racing despite being careful with money. I know some from 90s that are still having to work (Enduro). Zero chance that happens today.
Today you don't even have to be a champion to retire and have a great life.
The amount of money available reaches further into the results lists than it ever did, due to more sponsors and better marketing.
"muh...statistics!" What, like the ones I mentioned that you're conveniently avoiding.? Oh and if that one race had a small crowd because the track was "shitty" what's the reason for small crowds now that everything is so wonderful.?
And what's the "shitty local race level" tracks you're talking about? Which track from the past has stopped being used because of the track itself and not the car park, facilities etc.? You're wrong; people want rid of new shitty tracks created just for the car park, not the old tracks themselves.
My god you're just trolling now. The absolute biggest problem in MXGP is that there is no money, and what there is only goes to the top few guys then runs out fast. It's why so many good riders are sticking to National series or going to the AMA.
Maybe the top half dozen in MXGP are making good money but that was the case 40 years ago - and the privateers had enough in prize money and start money to be able to pay for their race expenses on that alone in a lot of cases. Everybody on the 40-rider (remember those..?) start line got paid something out of the race purse when they lined up. NOBODY does now.
Go and google the likes of Malherbe etc with their Ferrraris and Monaco apartments...
You forgot what the original point was?
Infrastructure. Read my first post again. It's not about the fucking track itself.
What was approved 30 or 40 years ago will not necessarily get approved today. Neither by local authorities, sports commissions, promotors, audience or riders.
Some people are stuck in history. Everything evolve.
Your car from 1980, 90 or 00 would never make it to the market. Neither the housings.
Neither all tracks (arenas) for championship races. What's so hard to understand. You want to go back 40 years so move into the woods, drop your internet subscription, stop posting on a forum. You don't get to cherry pick evolution.
Jeeeez...and you're missing the whole point I was making after your post - that the tracks are being designed/compromised around so called infrastructure. A shit-ton of unneccessary bollocks has been introduced to a sport that doesn't need it & can't afford it, then the baby got thrown out with the bathwater to accommodate it.
A car park is found, then the facilities etc etc, then somewhere down the line they try to wind a track around it with a few lorryloads of sand. We end up with the same flat boring track as the week before, and the week before.
The corporate tail is wagging the racing dog and nobody is buying it; either the riders or the fans. What part can't you understand.?
So you are saying its the promotors that have caused every motorcycle brand on national series to show up in a 18 wheeler with AC or heating, showers and a large tent for the riders and mechanics to work from. In addition the riders have thier own 30 foot trucks or trailers to sleep in. You have 10 people in the team instead of maybe one mechanic. Promotors fault?
Compared to 1980? Its not mandatory I can tell you that. Even the 20 place guys show up in trailers buying larger spaces in the pits. I can tell you the complaints coming in if you can't supply electricity to the b-riders today. You know the ones that arrived with the bike on a stand on the tow bar in 80s.
It's evolution, requirement increase. You would never buy a car today without AC or electric windows would you. And you wouldn't get the same car approved for the market. Because what? Yes everything evolves. Regulations, rider and audience requirements, team requirements, sponsor requirements.
You are trying to find a single point of failure in this, and there isn't.
*bangs head in frustration... 😣
But it's the push towards things like 18-wheelers and so on that have led the sport down a dead end. It's an off-road sport in off-road locations - trying to shoehorn an F1 pit into a field isn't going to leave options for a track. You immediately cut out elevation, hills, and anything else that makes a track. If there was a World Dick-Waving champs then all this show would be great, but there isn't so it's all pointless. Just because the sport has gone down the big-shiny-pit route doesn't make it right.
Quote: "you are trying to find a point of failure in this and there isn't" Really? Oh... apart from empty start gates, no money for riders, declining crowds, riders leaving the series and crappy tracks with often poor racing. Have I missed anything else.?
Question for you; do you think GP tracks have improved over the past 30 years? Yes or No? And I'm not talking about electric hook ups or hard standing for trucks. Have the tracks themselves got better or worse.?
It’ll be down to the team sponsorship deals.
Sponsors could pay more for World Series or less for a euro, seems the latter is the more popular choice away from full factory support.
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