Eli out at Yamaha?

MotoDad32
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6/13/2025 2:45pm
indy rider wrote:
GM's bankruptcy was due to the housing/bank crisis and the economy tanking. KTM's bankruptcy was caused by their own bad business decisions. Yes, both similarly went...

GM's bankruptcy was due to the housing/bank crisis and the economy tanking. KTM's bankruptcy was caused by their own bad business decisions. Yes, both similarly went through bankruptcy but on one caused the financial problems they faced, one didn't. Apples to oranges my man. 

 

"GM's bankruptcy was due to the housing/bank crisis and the economy tanking."

LOL.  Everyone always trying to blame someone/something else for their misfortune (and in this case, mismanagement).  Clearly the Board of Directors, CEO, and other C-suite management had nothing to do with the financial situation they found themselves in.

SMH.

14
indy rider
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6/13/2025 2:58pm
You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no...

You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no denying they screwed up. As many companies have in history. Unscrupulous is a bit dramatic for this situation. 

indy rider wrote:
It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out...

It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out of the other 70%? I do not, And...it's not like a natural disaster caused KTM's FU situation, it was solely their fault. Poor business decisions got them in the mess they were/are in. Why should innocent actors that did their part and provided the parts for the bikes, lose their hard earned money to bail out the F ups that created the mess? And others must agree because their stock is once again tanking. On the unscrupulous being dramatic, screwing the people you owe out of millions is a 1000 x more unscrupulous than a common criminal mugging someone on the street for their pocket chance, which I have no doubt you would classify as unscrupulous behavior

DonM wrote:
Keep up your rage....I can guarantee that you have been and are a consumer of products from a company that has had to utilize protection from...

Keep up your rage....I can guarantee that you have been and are a consumer of products from a company that has had to utilize protection from the bankruptcy courts at some point in their history....

No rage here. Just guided morals and high standards. And willing to call a spade a spade. As far as other companies go, I can only act on what I know. The shitty thing to do would be to not change your actions, when you do know. 

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ktmwoods
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abilene, TX US
6/13/2025 10:50pm
DonM wrote:

I sure hope you drive a Ford or a Tesla....

indy rider wrote:

Nope, they both produce crappy vehicles. Both are statistical leaders when it comes to recalls.  

DonM wrote:
Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing...

Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing so were relieved of having to pay their suppliers and debt the total amounts....so if you are driving another American brand besides a Ford or a Tesla you are driving a vehicle from a company that has done exactly what KTM has done....

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

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DonM
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indy rider wrote:

Nope, they both produce crappy vehicles. Both are statistical leaders when it comes to recalls.  

DonM wrote:
Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing...

Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing so were relieved of having to pay their suppliers and debt the total amounts....so if you are driving another American brand besides a Ford or a Tesla you are driving a vehicle from a company that has done exactly what KTM has done....

ktmwoods wrote:

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

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The Shop

Press516
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6/14/2025 7:05am

According to the ML pod, Eli’s test on the KTM went really well.  I’m really interested in seeing what he does on such a different bike.

15
ktmwoods
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abilene, TX US
6/15/2025 3:52pm
DonM wrote:
Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing...

Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing so were relieved of having to pay their suppliers and debt the total amounts....so if you are driving another American brand besides a Ford or a Tesla you are driving a vehicle from a company that has done exactly what KTM has done....

ktmwoods wrote:

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

Yeah, just a mere13 years to finally back a 1% “loan” as if Ford is somehow the only US car manufacturer with integrity. Got it. 

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yardsailor
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6/15/2025 4:03pm
DonM wrote:

I sure hope you drive a Ford or a Tesla....

I was just going to say the same thing. 

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DonM
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6/15/2025 4:07pm
ktmwoods wrote:

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

ktmwoods wrote:

Yeah, just a mere13 years to finally back a 1% “loan” as if Ford is somehow the only US car manufacturer with integrity. Got it. 

Pretty sure you have missed the whole point of the conversation….

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yardsailor
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6/15/2025 4:10pm
yardsailor wrote:

I was just going to say the same thing. 

GM problems are typical of many large corporations. Ford and the other manufacturers compete in the same market and have the same problems.  GM as a business, chose to run a bit differently than lets say Ford and at that time it didn't work for them.  It happens and we need GM here with us. 

As far as KTM, on the outside looking in, I wondered why they would purchase Gas Gas and Husqvarna.  I could see acquiring one company but like I said, Im on the outside and its easy to base my opinion from the blue sky. 

its good for moto to have KTM involved.  They have come along ways since Mcgrath rode one.  Maybe they gambled a bit too much in the recent years. 

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toomanykaws
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6/15/2025 4:54pm
KTM bought Husaberg for their engine designs and technology way back. Circa the 90’s. Really paved the way for the RFS and what their four strokes became. They bought Husqvarna for the nameplate. They were Cagiva built and then BMW at the end. Killed the Berg nameplate off. It all became the new Husqvarna. Many scratch their heads why they bought Gas Gas. As well as the E-bike companies. They looked to have lost a tremendous amount in the E-bike markets. KTM as a primarily off-road brand had quite the lineup from the 1990’s well into the 2000’s. For better or worse. When they went all in on MX and SX the companies focus sure changed directions.
1
PRM31
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Press516 wrote:

According to the ML pod, Eli’s test on the KTM went really well.  I’m really interested in seeing what he does on such a different bike.

Which pod is this?

1
yardsailor
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6/15/2025 8:27pm

Hopper should have asked the Lawrence brothers that considering the latest rumora of Eli going to hrc, what are their thoughts on it 

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StillSmokin
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6/15/2025 9:07pm
indy rider wrote:
I can't believe he's even willing to ride their bike. Next year will be the first time since he went pro that I won't be rooting...

I can't believe he's even willing to ride their bike. Next year will be the first time since he went pro that I won't be rooting for him. 

Gravel wrote:
So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… Do you say “Go Yamaha”...

So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… 

Do you say “Go Yamaha” when you watch races?

indy rider wrote:
No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed...

No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed meets that standard. It appears there's quite a large gap between what we each think is morally right or wrong.  

If you do bankruptcy correctly you can actually end up as president of the United States. 

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kiwifan
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6/15/2025 10:15pm

If Eli has signed for KTM then I reckon he will like the motor characteristics of the KTM, given his engine thrashing (but not always on rev limiter like Barcia or Deegan) style ... as opposed to Jett or Ken style of almost short shifting 

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Gravel
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6/16/2025 6:24am

If you do bankruptcy correctly you can actually end up as president of the United States. 

Or if you do royalty correctly you can be overrun by rapey muslims..

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davistld01
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6/16/2025 7:06am
yardsailor wrote:

I was just going to say the same thing. 

yardsailor wrote:
GM problems are typical of many large corporations. Ford and the other manufacturers compete in the same market and have the same problems.  GM as a...

GM problems are typical of many large corporations. Ford and the other manufacturers compete in the same market and have the same problems.  GM as a business, chose to run a bit differently than lets say Ford and at that time it didn't work for them.  It happens and we need GM here with us. 

As far as KTM, on the outside looking in, I wondered why they would purchase Gas Gas and Husqvarna.  I could see acquiring one company but like I said, Im on the outside and its easy to base my opinion from the blue sky. 

its good for moto to have KTM involved.  They have come along ways since Mcgrath rode one.  Maybe they gambled a bit too much in the recent years. 

OMG…not facts and logic on a Vital thread again!! We don’t tolerate anything but speculation, false narratives & outright bullcrap around here, mister!

(This coming from a manager at a GM dealership.) 😉

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1
6/16/2025 7:26am

So did Eli sign with GM or Ford?

26
GrapeApe
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6/16/2025 7:27am Edited Date/Time 6/16/2025 7:27am
Rickyisms wrote:

So did Eli sign with GM or Ford?

Tesla, please try to keep up

16
Tim507
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6/16/2025 7:49am
DonM wrote:
Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing...

Let me tell you why I asked....those are the only two American car companies who have NOT filed bankruptcy, all the others have and by doing so were relieved of having to pay their suppliers and debt the total amounts....so if you are driving another American brand besides a Ford or a Tesla you are driving a vehicle from a company that has done exactly what KTM has done....

ktmwoods wrote:

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other Name

Context: 2008–2009 Financial Crisis

During the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy and received TARP bailouts. Ford, meanwhile, marketed itself as independent and self-reliant.

The Reality:

Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Department of Energy in 2009 under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program. This was not part of the TARP bailout but was still government aid.

Terms of the Loan:

Loan Amount

Received

Status

Final Payment Due

$5.9 Billion

2009

Active & Amortized

2031–2032 (est.)

Why the Confusion?

- Ford avoided bankruptcy and TARP bailout optics.
- Media emphasized Ford’s independence while ignoring the DOE loan.
- Ford strategically marketed itself as not needing help.
- Many consumers believed Ford paid back any support early — which is false.

 

The Truth:

Ford did NOT pay off the ATVM loan early. As of 2025, it is still being repaid according to a long-term schedule. There was no forgiveness, but repayment is stretched across decades.

 Summary:

Ford’s public image as bailout-free is a narrative illusion. The company received massive government aid, avoided bankruptcy, and used smart PR to differentiate itself. The ATVM loan remains active today.

3
9
DonM
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6/16/2025 8:18am
ktmwoods wrote:

Sorry Don but wrong. Ford’s bailout was just packaged differently. 

DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

Tim507 wrote:
The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other NameContext: 2008–2009 Financial CrisisDuring the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy...

The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other Name

Context: 2008–2009 Financial Crisis

During the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy and received TARP bailouts. Ford, meanwhile, marketed itself as independent and self-reliant.

The Reality:

Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Department of Energy in 2009 under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program. This was not part of the TARP bailout but was still government aid.

Terms of the Loan:

Loan Amount

Received

Status

Final Payment Due

$5.9 Billion

2009

Active & Amortized

2031–2032 (est.)

Why the Confusion?

- Ford avoided bankruptcy and TARP bailout optics.
- Media emphasized Ford’s independence while ignoring the DOE loan.
- Ford strategically marketed itself as not needing help.
- Many consumers believed Ford paid back any support early — which is false.

 

The Truth:

Ford did NOT pay off the ATVM loan early. As of 2025, it is still being repaid according to a long-term schedule. There was no forgiveness, but repayment is stretched across decades.

 Summary:

Ford’s public image as bailout-free is a narrative illusion. The company received massive government aid, avoided bankruptcy, and used smart PR to differentiate itself. The ATVM loan remains active today.

You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their bankruptcy and "screwing" over their creditors...so I said I hope you drive a Ford or Tesla, which he replied that he would never drive either because they have bad ratings....I pointed out that the Chevy truck he's so proud of also filed bankruptcy and "screwed" over their creditors...I was just showing his hypocrisy in his posts...

9
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Gworm
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6/16/2025 9:04am
indy rider wrote:
No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed...

No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed meets that standard. It appears there's quite a large gap between what we each think is morally right or wrong.  

You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no...

You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no denying they screwed up. As many companies have in history. Unscrupulous is a bit dramatic for this situation. 

indy rider wrote:
It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out...

It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out of the other 70%? I do not, And...it's not like a natural disaster caused KTM's FU situation, it was solely their fault. Poor business decisions got them in the mess they were/are in. Why should innocent actors that did their part and provided the parts for the bikes, lose their hard earned money to bail out the F ups that created the mess? And others must agree because their stock is once again tanking. On the unscrupulous being dramatic, screwing the people you owe out of millions is a 1000 x more unscrupulous than a common criminal mugging someone on the street for their pocket chance, which I have no doubt you would classify as unscrupulous behavior

“On the unscrupulous being dramatic, screwing the people you owe out of millions is a 1000 x more unscrupulous than a common criminal mugging someone on the street for their pocket chance, which I have no doubt you would classify as unscrupulous behavior”

Really??


 

Tim507
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Location
Oregon City, OR US
6/16/2025 10:47am
DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

Tim507 wrote:
The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other NameContext: 2008–2009 Financial CrisisDuring the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy...

The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other Name

Context: 2008–2009 Financial Crisis

During the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy and received TARP bailouts. Ford, meanwhile, marketed itself as independent and self-reliant.

The Reality:

Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Department of Energy in 2009 under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program. This was not part of the TARP bailout but was still government aid.

Terms of the Loan:

Loan Amount

Received

Status

Final Payment Due

$5.9 Billion

2009

Active & Amortized

2031–2032 (est.)

Why the Confusion?

- Ford avoided bankruptcy and TARP bailout optics.
- Media emphasized Ford’s independence while ignoring the DOE loan.
- Ford strategically marketed itself as not needing help.
- Many consumers believed Ford paid back any support early — which is false.

 

The Truth:

Ford did NOT pay off the ATVM loan early. As of 2025, it is still being repaid according to a long-term schedule. There was no forgiveness, but repayment is stretched across decades.

 Summary:

Ford’s public image as bailout-free is a narrative illusion. The company received massive government aid, avoided bankruptcy, and used smart PR to differentiate itself. The ATVM loan remains active today.

DonM wrote:
You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their...

You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their bankruptcy and "screwing" over their creditors...so I said I hope you drive a Ford or Tesla, which he replied that he would never drive either because they have bad ratings....I pointed out that the Chevy truck he's so proud of also filed bankruptcy and "screwed" over their creditors...I was just showing his hypocrisy in his posts...

How one interrupts a post on a thread that has many people quoted is the responsibility of the one. I do not take sides or judge another person’s thoughts (posts). I read all the pertinent posts regarding the topic within the topic, and then present my thoughts after some research.  Always, obervation with no judgement.

1
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indy rider
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Spencer, IN US
6/16/2025 3:17pm
DonM wrote:

Ford's bailout was a $5.9B loan from the government which they have paid back....far from bankruptcy. 

Tim507 wrote:
The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other NameContext: 2008–2009 Financial CrisisDuring the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy...

The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other Name

Context: 2008–2009 Financial Crisis

During the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy and received TARP bailouts. Ford, meanwhile, marketed itself as independent and self-reliant.

The Reality:

Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Department of Energy in 2009 under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program. This was not part of the TARP bailout but was still government aid.

Terms of the Loan:

Loan Amount

Received

Status

Final Payment Due

$5.9 Billion

2009

Active & Amortized

2031–2032 (est.)

Why the Confusion?

- Ford avoided bankruptcy and TARP bailout optics.
- Media emphasized Ford’s independence while ignoring the DOE loan.
- Ford strategically marketed itself as not needing help.
- Many consumers believed Ford paid back any support early — which is false.

 

The Truth:

Ford did NOT pay off the ATVM loan early. As of 2025, it is still being repaid according to a long-term schedule. There was no forgiveness, but repayment is stretched across decades.

 Summary:

Ford’s public image as bailout-free is a narrative illusion. The company received massive government aid, avoided bankruptcy, and used smart PR to differentiate itself. The ATVM loan remains active today.

DonM wrote:
You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their...

You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their bankruptcy and "screwing" over their creditors...so I said I hope you drive a Ford or Tesla, which he replied that he would never drive either because they have bad ratings....I pointed out that the Chevy truck he's so proud of also filed bankruptcy and "screwed" over their creditors...I was just showing his hypocrisy in his posts...

I see Don's still pushing the straw man fallacy that the 2008 car manufacturer bankruptcies, which were due to the economic conditions caused by a national banking crisis, is the same as KTM's bankruptcy, in which their own bad business decisions led to their economic downfall. 

1
7
DonM
Posts
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US
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6/16/2025 3:51pm
Tim507 wrote:
The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other NameContext: 2008–2009 Financial CrisisDuring the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy...

The Ford Bailout Illusion: A Loan by Any Other Name

Context: 2008–2009 Financial Crisis

During the Great Recession, U.S. automakers faced collapse. General Motors and Chrysler entered bankruptcy and received TARP bailouts. Ford, meanwhile, marketed itself as independent and self-reliant.

The Reality:

Ford received a $5.9 billion loan from the Department of Energy in 2009 under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program. This was not part of the TARP bailout but was still government aid.

Terms of the Loan:

Loan Amount

Received

Status

Final Payment Due

$5.9 Billion

2009

Active & Amortized

2031–2032 (est.)

Why the Confusion?

- Ford avoided bankruptcy and TARP bailout optics.
- Media emphasized Ford’s independence while ignoring the DOE loan.
- Ford strategically marketed itself as not needing help.
- Many consumers believed Ford paid back any support early — which is false.

 

The Truth:

Ford did NOT pay off the ATVM loan early. As of 2025, it is still being repaid according to a long-term schedule. There was no forgiveness, but repayment is stretched across decades.

 Summary:

Ford’s public image as bailout-free is a narrative illusion. The company received massive government aid, avoided bankruptcy, and used smart PR to differentiate itself. The ATVM loan remains active today.

DonM wrote:
You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their...

You like the other guy completely missed the point by not reading the thread and the conversation....I'll update you....some guy was trashing KTM because of their bankruptcy and "screwing" over their creditors...so I said I hope you drive a Ford or Tesla, which he replied that he would never drive either because they have bad ratings....I pointed out that the Chevy truck he's so proud of also filed bankruptcy and "screwed" over their creditors...I was just showing his hypocrisy in his posts...

indy rider wrote:
I see Don's still pushing the straw man fallacy that the 2008 car manufacturer bankruptcies, which were due to the economic conditions caused by a national...

I see Don's still pushing the straw man fallacy that the 2008 car manufacturer bankruptcies, which were due to the economic conditions caused by a national banking crisis, is the same as KTM's bankruptcy, in which their own bad business decisions led to their economic downfall. 

Sorry bud I’m not the one pushing anything but what facts were….GM was losing money and had mounting legacy costs for their employees healthcare and pension plan costs way before the banking crisis all because of poor decisions made by their BOD that had them financially strapped…those poor decisions that were made before in the early 2000’s way before the banking crisis is what put them in the position to fail when the banking crisis did happen….many of those poor operating decisions were very similar to what KTM has done…you can read about it below it clearly states that the main cause was years of mismanagement  and the banking crisis was just the last nail in the coffin….

General Motors (GM) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on June 1, 2009, due to a combination of factors including years of losses, declining market share, and the impact of the Great Recession. The company struggled with high debt, legacy costs associated with healthcare and pension plans, and a lack of innovation. The Guardian reports that GM was on the verge of bankruptcy after racking up losses of $81 billion over four years.Harvard Business Review points out that GM was unable to survive as a viable business due to various factors, including its size and large dealer network. 

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PRM31
Posts
3493
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
Northern, VA US
Fantasy
6/16/2025 4:09pm

Perhaps y’all can go create a thread in non-moto to discuss the finer points of the auto industry finances 15+ years ago. 

35
GrapeApe
Posts
8761
Joined
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Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
6/16/2025 4:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2025 4:53pm
indy rider wrote:
No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed...

No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed meets that standard. It appears there's quite a large gap between what we each think is morally right or wrong.  

You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no...

You do realize this was negotiated by the creditors themselves right? You talk like KTM intentionally screwed  themselves and their partners over on purpose. There’s no denying they screwed up. As many companies have in history. Unscrupulous is a bit dramatic for this situation. 

indy rider wrote:
It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out...

It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out of the other 70%? I do not, And...it's not like a natural disaster caused KTM's FU situation, it was solely their fault. Poor business decisions got them in the mess they were/are in. Why should innocent actors that did their part and provided the parts for the bikes, lose their hard earned money to bail out the F ups that created the mess? And others must agree because their stock is once again tanking. On the unscrupulous being dramatic, screwing the people you owe out of millions is a 1000 x more unscrupulous than a common criminal mugging someone on the street for their pocket chance, which I have no doubt you would classify as unscrupulous behavior

I get what you're saying, but the guy that drove that car into the ditch is gone. The guy who cut the size of the board to basically himself, made questionable acquisitions, botched demand projections, took on boatloads of debt for vanity projects, elected to put the company into bankruptcy (or restructuring for the Euros), offered creditors the minimum allowed by law, and celebrated their acceptance by posting a video of himself doing burnouts in front of his shuttered factory, is gone. Eli will ride for Bajaj, not Pierer.

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6/16/2025 5:50pm
indy rider wrote:
It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out...

It was 30% or nothing. And most fought even that until the very end. Do you blame them for wanting the 30% after being BF'd out of the other 70%? I do not, And...it's not like a natural disaster caused KTM's FU situation, it was solely their fault. Poor business decisions got them in the mess they were/are in. Why should innocent actors that did their part and provided the parts for the bikes, lose their hard earned money to bail out the F ups that created the mess? And others must agree because their stock is once again tanking. On the unscrupulous being dramatic, screwing the people you owe out of millions is a 1000 x more unscrupulous than a common criminal mugging someone on the street for their pocket chance, which I have no doubt you would classify as unscrupulous behavior

DonM wrote:
Keep up your rage....I can guarantee that you have been and are a consumer of products from a company that has had to utilize protection from...

Keep up your rage....I can guarantee that you have been and are a consumer of products from a company that has had to utilize protection from the bankruptcy courts at some point in their history....

indy rider wrote:
No rage here. Just guided morals and high standards. And willing to call a spade a spade. As far as other companies go, I can only...

No rage here. Just guided morals and high standards. And willing to call a spade a spade. As far as other companies go, I can only act on what I know. The shitty thing to do would be to not change your actions, when you do know. 

What it must be like to be on such a moral high ground. Except it’s not the flex you think it is.

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1
Motohead279
Posts
246
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Ruskin, FL US
6/17/2025 10:42am
indy rider wrote:
I can't believe he's even willing to ride their bike. Next year will be the first time since he went pro that I won't be rooting...

I can't believe he's even willing to ride their bike. Next year will be the first time since he went pro that I won't be rooting for him. 

Gravel wrote:
So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… Do you say “Go Yamaha”...

So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… 

Do you say “Go Yamaha” when you watch races?

indy rider wrote:
No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed...

No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed meets that standard. It appears there's quite a large gap between what we each think is morally right or wrong.  

I hope you never fly Delta, American, US Airways, Spirit Airlines etc. Hope you have never owned a GM or Chrysler vehicle. You have no idea what leads into a company filing chapter 11 and the thousands of companies who have had to whether fault of their own or some outside cause like Covid for example. 

If you had more than the brain power of a potato you would realize that KTM did not set out to do this on purpose and this wasn’t caused what we would consider greed. The main reason for their situation is they ramped up production to satisfy customers during the pandemic and that after the pandemic they were left with an over abundance of inventory after sales dropped lower than pre-pandemic levels , added with high inflation and interest rates they were sitting on too much unsold inventory. 

 The four big Japanese manufacturers, motorcycle production is just a small tiny part of the corporatiion as a whole where if something like this would not have the effect on a smaller company like KTM where they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer.  Something like this would not have the same effect on a huge company like Kawasaki or Honda.  But for KTM,  they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer have a huge resources and packing like bigger companies. 

MotoDad32
Posts
237
Joined
7/23/2017
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
6/17/2025 10:48am
I hope you never fly Delta, American, US Airways, Spirit Airlines etc. Hope you have never owned a GM or Chrysler vehicle. You have no idea...

I hope you never fly Delta, American, US Airways, Spirit Airlines etc. Hope you have never owned a GM or Chrysler vehicle. You have no idea what leads into a company filing chapter 11 and the thousands of companies who have had to whether fault of their own or some outside cause like Covid for example. 

If you had more than the brain power of a potato you would realize that KTM did not set out to do this on purpose and this wasn’t caused what we would consider greed. The main reason for their situation is they ramped up production to satisfy customers during the pandemic and that after the pandemic they were left with an over abundance of inventory after sales dropped lower than pre-pandemic levels , added with high inflation and interest rates they were sitting on too much unsold inventory. 

 The four big Japanese manufacturers, motorcycle production is just a small tiny part of the corporatiion as a whole where if something like this would not have the effect on a smaller company like KTM where they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer.  Something like this would not have the same effect on a huge company like Kawasaki or Honda.  But for KTM,  they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer have a huge resources and packing like bigger companies. 

Lol that's so ridiculous.  Why did you think they ramped up production?  Let me let you in on a little secret - they didn't spend all of that capital because they wanted to satisfy customer's demand - it was because they wanted to grown their market share, and earn more profit.  It's all about gaining wealth, nothing more than that.

They took a risk to earn more profit and guess what - it didn't pan out.  This isn't anyone's fault but their own.

2
indy rider
Posts
110
Joined
8/3/2015
Location
Spencer, IN US
6/17/2025 11:22am
Gravel wrote:
So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… Do you say “Go Yamaha”...

So you support the corporations and not the riders? I don’t care what bike they ride, I like Tomac, CS, KR, AP… 

Do you say “Go Yamaha” when you watch races?

indy rider wrote:
No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed...

No...I just refuse to support unscrupulous companies or individuals. Not paying your bills and screwing creditors and suppliers out of 70% of what they were owed meets that standard. It appears there's quite a large gap between what we each think is morally right or wrong.  

I hope you never fly Delta, American, US Airways, Spirit Airlines etc. Hope you have never owned a GM or Chrysler vehicle. You have no idea...

I hope you never fly Delta, American, US Airways, Spirit Airlines etc. Hope you have never owned a GM or Chrysler vehicle. You have no idea what leads into a company filing chapter 11 and the thousands of companies who have had to whether fault of their own or some outside cause like Covid for example. 

If you had more than the brain power of a potato you would realize that KTM did not set out to do this on purpose and this wasn’t caused what we would consider greed. The main reason for their situation is they ramped up production to satisfy customers during the pandemic and that after the pandemic they were left with an over abundance of inventory after sales dropped lower than pre-pandemic levels , added with high inflation and interest rates they were sitting on too much unsold inventory. 

 The four big Japanese manufacturers, motorcycle production is just a small tiny part of the corporatiion as a whole where if something like this would not have the effect on a smaller company like KTM where they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer.  Something like this would not have the same effect on a huge company like Kawasaki or Honda.  But for KTM,  they are primarily a motorcycle manufacturer have a huge resources and packing like bigger companies. 

You obviously haven't followed their situation very closely. Greed, hubris and outright moronic business decisions led to their downfall. 

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