Too bad US motocross doesn't welcome innovation

BLAHBLAH
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9/15/2010 2:09pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
Most manufactures didn't even offer a "turd" when the 4 stroke became legal in professional racing. Yamaha developed a 4 stroke bike they thought could be competitive with the current 250cc 2 stroke machines being raced. When the 4 stroke first came out (following cc rules) the 2 stroke out classed it. The AMA along with the FIM decided the bike was fair to compete.

At that time Yamaha had huge success in sales of the 4 stroke and the other manufactures began to produce a competitive 4 stroke as well. If the Yamaha wouldn't have sold. Or the other OEM's 4 strokes wouldn't have sold, smokers would still be navigating professional SX/MX tracks accross the world.
newmann
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9/15/2010 2:14pm
you don't even want to know what my mood ring is telling me right now.........
txmxer
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9/15/2010 2:18pm
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it.

With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer for the big bike class is to bring back works bikes and make it an open class. Get rid of cc limitations. Let them make the absolute best bike possible and see where that leads us.

newmann
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9/15/2010 2:29pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
BLAHBLAH wrote:
Most manufactures didn't even offer a "turd" when the 4 stroke became legal in professional racing. Yamaha developed a 4 stroke bike they thought could be...
Most manufactures didn't even offer a "turd" when the 4 stroke became legal in professional racing. Yamaha developed a 4 stroke bike they thought could be competitive with the current 250cc 2 stroke machines being raced. When the 4 stroke first came out (following cc rules) the 2 stroke out classed it. The AMA along with the FIM decided the bike was fair to compete.

At that time Yamaha had huge success in sales of the 4 stroke and the other manufactures began to produce a competitive 4 stroke as well. If the Yamaha wouldn't have sold. Or the other OEM's 4 strokes wouldn't have sold, smokers would still be navigating professional SX/MX tracks accross the world.
Yamaha just took advantage of the more than double the displacement rule and built a badass purpose built motocross engine using their latest 5 valve Genesis roadrace technology and went out and won the first SX they entered. That should have been the first sign that the rule was skewed. To say that the 2 stroke outclassed it after its initial debut, well that's just not clear thinking. Had they stepped back and aimed for something fair in comparison to the 250 2 stroke, where would the fun have been in that. At that point it was legalized cheating and no one else had anything to compete with it except for the hope of a better rider. Yamaha had the world by the balls and there wasn't anything anyone could do or say.

Some people refer to the 450 as the bike that leveled the playing field, but then again, the open class 2 strokes of old basically did the same thing.

The Shop

4mxonly
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9/15/2010 2:36pm
BLAHBLAH wrote:
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend...
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend hours each week on an internet chat room proclaiming how much better the first version of the pet rock was.

Anyone who chose to buy a 4stroke instead of a 2 stroke to take to the track is indeed at fault, no ifs ands or buts. If you regret your decision fine, but learn to live with it.
"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."

You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based. It had nothing to do with the rock itself, but rather the story behind it and how external market factors at that particular time in history can influence purchase decisions.

The widget is literally "a product of it's environment", whether you're talking about a 4-stroke or a 2-stroke. The advent and success of the 4-stroke was a product of a world that was good and prospering. Now, the 2-stroke (based on the opinions and common consensus in this thread) is an ideal product for times that are not-so-good. It is nobody's "fault" for buying a 4-stroke (at the expense of the 2-stroke market), they were just making a decision based on external influences (and internal considerations) at that time. You are comparing the purchase decision made then (i.e. 5 years ago), with the world we live in now (2010), and making your judgment based on those two things... like I said hindsight is 20-20.

Lastly, history has proven that when the economy takes a dump, people quickly realize where inefficiencies are, and they eliminate them in order to sustain their standard of living -cutting the fat so to speak (companies do it with "cost management"). This is one of those times and people are beginning to realize that the modern day 4-stroke is not the value they once thought it was.
mxrose3
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9/15/2010 2:36pm
I'm pretty sure when the first YZF400 that was decided to be raced by Doug Henry - the HP numbers were about the same as a 250 2 stroke at that time. Nobody looked at the torque numbers or the width of the powerband.
They are running 450cc now, and have had development time to increase the HP even more. Even if they kept it at 400cc's, the 250 two strokes probably would still have a hard time keeping up with them at some tracks. And don't even get me started on the 250 four strokes. As Newmann has pointed out, the rules were skewed to begin with.
9/15/2010 2:44pm
mxrose3 wrote:
I'm pretty sure when the first YZF400 that was decided to be raced by Doug Henry - the HP numbers were about the same as a...
I'm pretty sure when the first YZF400 that was decided to be raced by Doug Henry - the HP numbers were about the same as a 250 2 stroke at that time. Nobody looked at the torque numbers or the width of the powerband.
They are running 450cc now, and have had development time to increase the HP even more. Even if they kept it at 400cc's, the 250 two strokes probably would still have a hard time keeping up with them at some tracks. And don't even get me started on the 250 four strokes. As Newmann has pointed out, the rules were skewed to begin with.
Don't forget about the weight. They've managed to add 50cc and shave a good 30 pounds off the original.
ATKpilot99
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9/15/2010 2:50pm
mxrose3 wrote:
I'm pretty sure when the first YZF400 that was decided to be raced by Doug Henry - the HP numbers were about the same as a...
I'm pretty sure when the first YZF400 that was decided to be raced by Doug Henry - the HP numbers were about the same as a 250 2 stroke at that time. Nobody looked at the torque numbers or the width of the powerband.
They are running 450cc now, and have had development time to increase the HP even more. Even if they kept it at 400cc's, the 250 two strokes probably would still have a hard time keeping up with them at some tracks. And don't even get me started on the 250 four strokes. As Newmann has pointed out, the rules were skewed to begin with.
Don't forget about the weight. They've managed to add 50cc and shave a good 30 pounds off the original.
The current yz 450 is maybe 10 lbs less than the original yz 400 . YZ 450fs were lightest before the introduction of EFI .
9/15/2010 2:51pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The current yz 450 is maybe 10 lbs less than the original yz 400 . YZ 450fs were lightest before the introduction of EFI .
A Factory bike?
ATKpilot99
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9/15/2010 2:55pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The current yz 450 is maybe 10 lbs less than the original yz 400 . YZ 450fs were lightest before the introduction of EFI .
A Factory bike?
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like the factory bikes are lighter now .
kawboy388
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9/15/2010 2:58pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The current yz 450 is maybe 10 lbs less than the original yz 400 . YZ 450fs were lightest before the introduction of EFI .
A Factory bike?
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like...
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like the factory bikes are lighter now .
Dirt Bike weighed Henry's 98 YZF(the one that had to be production based), it was 219. It was also a 450.
ATKpilot99
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9/15/2010 3:00pm
A Factory bike?
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like...
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like the factory bikes are lighter now .
kawboy388 wrote:
Dirt Bike weighed Henry's 98 YZF(the one that had to be production based), it was 219. It was also a 450.
Well I think the AMApro minimum for a 4 stroke is 216 so around the same now . The showroom stock 98 yz 400 was around 250 and the current 450 hovers in the 240s I believe .
9/15/2010 3:16pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 3:20pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
The current yz 450 is maybe 10 lbs less than the original yz 400 . YZ 450fs were lightest before the introduction of EFI .
A Factory bike?
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like...
Not sure but its probably all relative . I gotta think the factory YZ 400 Doug Henry raced was lighter than the stock one just like the factory bikes are lighter now .
That's my point. You can shed pounds off a 450 if you're a factory team. What about the guys in the back though? Do they have the money to do that? 2 strokes have evolved for so long that they are already competitive in weight out of the box and you can make the highly competitive (locally) for less than a grand more. You can barely even buy high end 4 stroke exhaust systems for that much.
BLAHBLAH
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9/15/2010 3:33pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 5:06pm
4mxonly wrote:
[b]"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."[/b] You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of...
"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."

You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based. It had nothing to do with the rock itself, but rather the story behind it and how external market factors at that particular time in history can influence purchase decisions.

The widget is literally "a product of it's environment", whether you're talking about a 4-stroke or a 2-stroke. The advent and success of the 4-stroke was a product of a world that was good and prospering. Now, the 2-stroke (based on the opinions and common consensus in this thread) is an ideal product for times that are not-so-good. It is nobody's "fault" for buying a 4-stroke (at the expense of the 2-stroke market), they were just making a decision based on external influences (and internal considerations) at that time. You are comparing the purchase decision made then (i.e. 5 years ago), with the world we live in now (2010), and making your judgment based on those two things... like I said hindsight is 20-20.

Lastly, history has proven that when the economy takes a dump, people quickly realize where inefficiencies are, and they eliminate them in order to sustain their standard of living -cutting the fat so to speak (companies do it with "cost management"). This is one of those times and people are beginning to realize that the modern day 4-stroke is not the value they once thought it was.
I understand completely that a 2 stroke is cheaper to rebuild than a 4 stroke. The same was true a decade ago when consumers began to purchase them. Now that the economy is crap and the people who were overextending themselves in the first place can't afford the maintence of the very product they so badly wanted.

For the consumers who wish to purchase and ride 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes there are a few models available. If two strokes start flying off the shelves and 4 strokes arn't selling, you can bet that Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki will pull out thier old 2 stroke plans and start producing.

Specifically for you 4mxonly since you seem to know economic terms you should also know that consumer demand Always controls the market (unless we are in a communist society, and all though we are working our way there, we still have the privillage of an open market).

I'm not making an argument on what I think is better, funner to ride or cheaper. IMO I like the Idea of the premier class being a true open class, why not. A 125 rookie class might be fun to watch, a great way for up and comers to gett their feet wet. I'll I am saying it is the consumer's fault, take responsibility for it.

Lastly, the fact of the matter is dirt bikes are a luxury item. They cost a lot to maintain, haul around the country, race and so on no matter if you are ridding a 4stroke or 2. If we were that worried about cost we would play basketball, all you need is your shoes and you.
MX7MX
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9/15/2010 3:44pm
BLAHBLAH wrote:
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend...
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend hours each week on an internet chat room proclaiming how much better the first version of the pet rock was.

Anyone who chose to buy a 4stroke instead of a 2 stroke to take to the track is indeed at fault, no ifs ands or buts. If you regret your decision fine, but learn to live with it.
4mxonly wrote:
[b]"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."[/b] You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of...
"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."

You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based. It had nothing to do with the rock itself, but rather the story behind it and how external market factors at that particular time in history can influence purchase decisions.

The widget is literally "a product of it's environment", whether you're talking about a 4-stroke or a 2-stroke. The advent and success of the 4-stroke was a product of a world that was good and prospering. Now, the 2-stroke (based on the opinions and common consensus in this thread) is an ideal product for times that are not-so-good. It is nobody's "fault" for buying a 4-stroke (at the expense of the 2-stroke market), they were just making a decision based on external influences (and internal considerations) at that time. You are comparing the purchase decision made then (i.e. 5 years ago), with the world we live in now (2010), and making your judgment based on those two things... like I said hindsight is 20-20.

Lastly, history has proven that when the economy takes a dump, people quickly realize where inefficiencies are, and they eliminate them in order to sustain their standard of living -cutting the fat so to speak (companies do it with "cost management"). This is one of those times and people are beginning to realize that the modern day 4-stroke is not the value they once thought it was.
while I agree with the current economic times, the 2 stroke isn't the answer for all things problematic with MX and SX!
jmar
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9/15/2010 4:50pm
txmxer wrote:
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it. With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer...
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it.

With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer for the big bike class is to bring back works bikes and make it an open class. Get rid of cc limitations. Let them make the absolute best bike possible and see where that leads us.

I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service Honda's would be legal for the large bore class. The absolute worse thing would be to bring back the works bikes.

I honestly think that some of you would be surprised at what the outcome would be if the class was truly an open class as far as displacement.
mooch
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Fantasy
9/15/2010 4:53pm
Keep at it Newmann! I totally agree with your point of view and applaud your passion for what you believe in!


Matthes, yep...he's quite clearly an azzwipe wannabee.
txmxer
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9/15/2010 4:59pm
txmxer wrote:
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it. With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer...
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it.

With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer for the big bike class is to bring back works bikes and make it an open class. Get rid of cc limitations. Let them make the absolute best bike possible and see where that leads us.

jmar wrote:
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service...
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service Honda's would be legal for the large bore class. The absolute worse thing would be to bring back the works bikes.

I honestly think that some of you would be surprised at what the outcome would be if the class was truly an open class as far as displacement.
Help me out Jim. Explain what would happen and how it would differ from fim rules.
Gaz_b
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9/15/2010 5:16pm
txmxer wrote:
Help me out Jim. Explain what would happen and how it would differ from fim rules.
We would probably see some 550cc V-twin Apprila's which would be nice, along with small number bikes like the service honda's and ccm's etc.
jmar
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9/15/2010 5:29pm
txmxer wrote:
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it. With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer...
Newmann's goal is to see 125cc racing as a pro entry level class. I like it.

With regard to 2 strokes in general, the right answer for the big bike class is to bring back works bikes and make it an open class. Get rid of cc limitations. Let them make the absolute best bike possible and see where that leads us.

jmar wrote:
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service...
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service Honda's would be legal for the large bore class. The absolute worse thing would be to bring back the works bikes.

I honestly think that some of you would be surprised at what the outcome would be if the class was truly an open class as far as displacement.
txmxer wrote:
Help me out Jim. Explain what would happen and how it would differ from fim rules.
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an ex back of the pack privateer, I personally don't think it's good for racing. The production rule is why the bikes are as good as they are today.

I thought that most on this board were adamant about not turning our series into something like the GPs.
ATKpilot99
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9/15/2010 5:49pm
jmar wrote:
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service...
I am all for making the big bore class an open class. I would have no problems with easing the rules so bikes like the Service Honda's would be legal for the large bore class. The absolute worse thing would be to bring back the works bikes.

I honestly think that some of you would be surprised at what the outcome would be if the class was truly an open class as far as displacement.
txmxer wrote:
Help me out Jim. Explain what would happen and how it would differ from fim rules.
jmar wrote:
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an...
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an ex back of the pack privateer, I personally don't think it's good for racing. The production rule is why the bikes are as good as they are today.

I thought that most on this board were adamant about not turning our series into something like the GPs.
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that may or may not make it to production . How is it so different ?
txmxer
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9/15/2010 5:50pm
jmar wrote:
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an...
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an ex back of the pack privateer, I personally don't think it's good for racing. The production rule is why the bikes are as good as they are today.

I thought that most on this board were adamant about not turning our series into something like the GPs.
I agree the production rule has been positive. But, times change. Maybe there's more middle ground or it just needs to go back and forth every few years.
nadeauracing229
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9/15/2010 5:51pm
4mxonly wrote:
[b]"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."[/b] You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of...
"Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks..."

You're damn right I did, it's called an analogy... you know, a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based. It had nothing to do with the rock itself, but rather the story behind it and how external market factors at that particular time in history can influence purchase decisions.

The widget is literally "a product of it's environment", whether you're talking about a 4-stroke or a 2-stroke. The advent and success of the 4-stroke was a product of a world that was good and prospering. Now, the 2-stroke (based on the opinions and common consensus in this thread) is an ideal product for times that are not-so-good. It is nobody's "fault" for buying a 4-stroke (at the expense of the 2-stroke market), they were just making a decision based on external influences (and internal considerations) at that time. You are comparing the purchase decision made then (i.e. 5 years ago), with the world we live in now (2010), and making your judgment based on those two things... like I said hindsight is 20-20.

Lastly, history has proven that when the economy takes a dump, people quickly realize where inefficiencies are, and they eliminate them in order to sustain their standard of living -cutting the fat so to speak (companies do it with "cost management"). This is one of those times and people are beginning to realize that the modern day 4-stroke is not the value they once thought it was.
BLAHBLAH wrote:
I understand completely that a 2 stroke is cheaper to rebuild than a 4 stroke. The same was true a decade ago when consumers began to...
I understand completely that a 2 stroke is cheaper to rebuild than a 4 stroke. The same was true a decade ago when consumers began to purchase them. Now that the economy is crap and the people who were overextending themselves in the first place can't afford the maintence of the very product they so badly wanted.

For the consumers who wish to purchase and ride 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes there are a few models available. If two strokes start flying off the shelves and 4 strokes arn't selling, you can bet that Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki will pull out thier old 2 stroke plans and start producing.

Specifically for you 4mxonly since you seem to know economic terms you should also know that consumer demand Always controls the market (unless we are in a communist society, and all though we are working our way there, we still have the privillage of an open market).

I'm not making an argument on what I think is better, funner to ride or cheaper. IMO I like the Idea of the premier class being a true open class, why not. A 125 rookie class might be fun to watch, a great way for up and comers to gett their feet wet. I'll I am saying it is the consumer's fault, take responsibility for it.

Lastly, the fact of the matter is dirt bikes are a luxury item. They cost a lot to maintain, haul around the country, race and so on no matter if you are ridding a 4stroke or 2. If we were that worried about cost we would play basketball, all you need is your shoes and you.
No ones going to buy new 2 strokes brand new anymore because right away they are at a disadvantage they just buy used 2 strokes which does nothing for the companies..
jmar
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9/15/2010 5:55pm
mooch wrote:
Keep at it Newmann! I totally agree with your point of view and applaud your passion for what you believe in! Matthes, yep...he's quite clearly an...
Keep at it Newmann! I totally agree with your point of view and applaud your passion for what you believe in!


Matthes, yep...he's quite clearly an azzwipe wannabee.
Look mooch,

I think Newman is one hell of a guy, and even though I have never met the man, I like him. With that said, I have also had my disagreements with Matthes, but that doesn't mean that he's always wrong, and for some internet motoboard expert to call him a "wannabee" mean's that you either have no idea about his back ground, or you are just getting sucked up in this interweeb bullshit.

Let's all face a reality here. Some are pissed, because pro level racing has chosen another direction, and it makes some feel as if they have been left behind. If you think the two strokes are the shit, then go out an buy your self one from either Yamaha or KTM. It really is that easy. If people like you are the majority then things will change.




jmar
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9/15/2010 6:05pm
txmxer wrote:
Help me out Jim. Explain what would happen and how it would differ from fim rules.
jmar wrote:
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an...
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an ex back of the pack privateer, I personally don't think it's good for racing. The production rule is why the bikes are as good as they are today.

I thought that most on this board were adamant about not turning our series into something like the GPs.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that...
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that may or may not make it to production . How is it so different ?
Technology has slowed way down compared to the seventies and eighties, and with todays economy, it's going to slow down even more. All it would do is raise the price of an already very expensive sport to participate in.

As far as those teams that already have an advantage?
Does that make the racing better or worse, and as a fan, do you want to put you blessing on that advantage?

I don't.
WORCSRacer
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9/15/2010 6:10pm
jmar wrote:
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an...
I don't believe, that giving those who are already the best of the field, more of an advantage. As a fan, and the father of an ex back of the pack privateer, I personally don't think it's good for racing. The production rule is why the bikes are as good as they are today.

I thought that most on this board were adamant about not turning our series into something like the GPs.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that...
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that may or may not make it to production . How is it so different ?
jmar wrote:
Technology has slowed way down compared to the seventies and eighties, and with todays economy, it's going to slow down even more. All it would do...
Technology has slowed way down compared to the seventies and eighties, and with todays economy, it's going to slow down even more. All it would do is raise the price of an already very expensive sport to participate in.

As far as those teams that already have an advantage?
Does that make the racing better or worse, and as a fan, do you want to put you blessing on that advantage?

I don't.
Hey when do you think most people will realize that 93 CR250 has more potential than they do?
jmar
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Oklahoma City, OK, USA
9/15/2010 6:25pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that...
But didn't works technology end up being production anyway ? I think the factory guys get special parts now that are unavailable to the public that may or may not make it to production . How is it so different ?
jmar wrote:
Technology has slowed way down compared to the seventies and eighties, and with todays economy, it's going to slow down even more. All it would do...
Technology has slowed way down compared to the seventies and eighties, and with todays economy, it's going to slow down even more. All it would do is raise the price of an already very expensive sport to participate in.

As far as those teams that already have an advantage?
Does that make the racing better or worse, and as a fan, do you want to put you blessing on that advantage?

I don't.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey when do you think most people will realize that 93 CR250 has more potential than they do?
All this two stroke vs four stroke is crazy. One post, some expert is saying that the rider is 90%, and the bike is 10%. The next post is that four stokes are a joke, then we have those that are adamant that the four stroke is a huge advantage and it has ruined their life.

My guess is that most of those doing all the bitching haven't bought a new bike in years.

Billy Jack
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9/15/2010 7:36pm
Matthes wrote:
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"...
Congrats, you've officially now reached the level of "Vital posters that I will never click on ever again because they have beat the monkey to death"

You're so boring and monotonous, do you have anything interesting to say about anything other than your agenda? Even The Rock branched out once in a while.
I agree, it gets old.
SwapperMX
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AU
9/15/2010 7:41pm
jmar wrote:
All this two stroke vs four stroke is crazy. One post, some expert is saying that the rider is 90%, and the bike is 10%. The...
All this two stroke vs four stroke is crazy. One post, some expert is saying that the rider is 90%, and the bike is 10%. The next post is that four stokes are a joke, then we have those that are adamant that the four stroke is a huge advantage and it has ruined their life.

My guess is that most of those doing all the bitching haven't bought a new bike in years.

I just bought a new YZ250.

And I enjoy reading about all the two stroke love !!!!
jmar
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Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
9/15/2010 7:46pm
newmann wrote:
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches. [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TGM125.jpg[/img] Cool article, especially the last...
like over in Europe. Stolen from some 2 Stroke Motocross site. Some TM components, Fox suspension and TGM custom touches.



Cool article, especially the last paragaph. Just some passionate motoheads giving back to the sport we all love.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/09/tgm-makes-comeback-in-uem-emx-125…
That's a good thing. If more of you did that it could better your cause.

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