No Eli Talk - just fitness and why your're wrong

MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 10:17am
aees wrote:
Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.Sorry but I...

Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.

Sorry but I don't see it.

Sure its maybe used to recover from injuries, but it doesn't have the impact/uplift in our sport that It has in other sports, so risk vs reward is debatable.

It's not that hard to grasp.

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

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1
5/29/2025 10:22am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

Many athletes train and/or sleep in an altitude tent. 

My local gym used to have an ‘altitude room’. 
With spin bikes, rowing machines and treadmills in there. 
 

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MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 10:24am
truck wrote:
My favorite part of this discussion is how easy it is to see people's motives..... talking about Deegan doping because of his stamina at the end...

My favorite part of this discussion is how easy it is to see people's motives..... talking about Deegan doping because of his stamina at the end of motos in a thread about Eli who is notorious for beast mode rides at end of motos but would never be accused of the same thing by the same people......  

I'm open to discussion of PEDs in moto but if you're going to accuse some riders of it based on their fitness then at least be consistent with your unfounded accusations. 

Eli is doping because he's strong at the end of motos. Stamp it. 

See how stupid that sounds? 

mx 219 wrote:
I would hope guys like Dungey, Canard, and Tomac wouldn't be doping. They all seem like stand up guys. The fact that John Tomac changed disciplines...

I would hope guys like Dungey, Canard, and Tomac wouldn't be doping. They all seem like stand up guys. The fact that John Tomac changed disciplines when he was racing makes me think Eli is clean, but I could be way off.

Someone like Deegan and Carmichael, they are so competitive I have no doubt that they would for the benefits they would receive. It's not like Deegan hasn't been caught cheating before. As the saying goes, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying". 

Yeah, I hoped in very much the same way for Lance Armstrong. We all know how that turned out.

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Gworm
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5/29/2025 10:28am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

Many athletes train and/or sleep in an altitude tent. 

My local gym used to have an ‘altitude room’. 
With spin bikes, rowing machines and treadmills in there. 
 

I had never heard of gyms with an altitude room, but I haven't been in too many gyms.

Do you know what altitude they go to? Also, are you locked in for a certain amount of time for the depressurization?

 

The Shop

Gworm
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5/29/2025 10:35am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

Many athletes train and/or sleep in an altitude tent. 

My local gym used to have an ‘altitude room’. 
With spin bikes, rowing machines and treadmills in there. 
 

Gworm wrote:
I had never heard of gyms with an altitude room, but I haven't been in too many gyms.Do you know what altitude they go to? Also...

I had never heard of gyms with an altitude room, but I haven't been in too many gyms.

Do you know what altitude they go to? Also, are you locked in for a certain amount of time for the depressurization?

 

I just read up on the MountainAir altitude tents... they advertise 12000 ft above home elevation... kind of hard to believe, but they are  probably right.

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soggy
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5/29/2025 11:02am

Many athletes train and/or sleep in an altitude tent. 

My local gym used to have an ‘altitude room’. 
With spin bikes, rowing machines and treadmills in there. 
 

Gworm wrote:
I had never heard of gyms with an altitude room, but I haven't been in too many gyms.Do you know what altitude they go to? Also...

I had never heard of gyms with an altitude room, but I haven't been in too many gyms.

Do you know what altitude they go to? Also, are you locked in for a certain amount of time for the depressurization?

 

Gworm wrote:

I just read up on the MountainAir altitude tents... they advertise 12000 ft above home elevation... kind of hard to believe, but they are  probably right.

From personal experience sleeping(camping in my case) at that elevation sucks for the first few days if you aren’t used to it. Combine it with climbing and skiing 14ers and it’s a shock to the system for sure. 

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1
5/29/2025 11:05am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

Training mask don’t mimic high altitude training, nor do they raise white blood cells. 

They hamper your breathing making your respiratory muscles work harder, which theoretically helps when under a load. 

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5/29/2025 11:12am
truck wrote:
My favorite part of this discussion is how easy it is to see people's motives..... talking about Deegan doping because of his stamina at the end...

My favorite part of this discussion is how easy it is to see people's motives..... talking about Deegan doping because of his stamina at the end of motos in a thread about Eli who is notorious for beast mode rides at end of motos but would never be accused of the same thing by the same people......  

I'm open to discussion of PEDs in moto but if you're going to accuse some riders of it based on their fitness then at least be consistent with your unfounded accusations. 

Eli is doping because he's strong at the end of motos. Stamp it. 

See how stupid that sounds? 

mx 219 wrote:
I would hope guys like Dungey, Canard, and Tomac wouldn't be doping. They all seem like stand up guys. The fact that John Tomac changed disciplines...

I would hope guys like Dungey, Canard, and Tomac wouldn't be doping. They all seem like stand up guys. The fact that John Tomac changed disciplines when he was racing makes me think Eli is clean, but I could be way off.

Someone like Deegan and Carmichael, they are so competitive I have no doubt that they would for the benefits they would receive. It's not like Deegan hasn't been caught cheating before. As the saying goes, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying". 

I can confidently tell you that Trey was told he couldn’t train with a certain trainer because Trey wouldn’t lie about what they were doing. 

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Gworm
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5/29/2025 11:12am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

UpTiTe wrote:
Training mask don’t mimic high altitude training, nor do they raise white blood cells. They hamper your breathing making your respiratory muscles work harder, which theoretically helps...

Training mask don’t mimic high altitude training, nor do they raise white blood cells. 

They hamper your breathing making your respiratory muscles work harder, which theoretically helps when under a load. 

I would think any time o2 is limited, your body would make more red cells to compensate. Maybe truck could answer this. 

 But as I said , I don’t think it would work nearly as well as living and training at altitude. 

5/29/2025 11:15am
Gworm wrote:
The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing...

The Eli vs Deegan comparison means nothing... Eli is gaining an advantage naturally because of where he lives, it's basically legal blood doping, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Edit: Thinking more about the Eli/ Deegan comparison... it does mean something... Eli lives and trains at 6200 ft, Deegan lives at sea level. To be fair though, I have seen pics of Deegan training with an an apparatus over his face to impede his breathing, which would help with his red blood cell count, but I doubt is does anywhere near as much as living and training full time at high elevation. 

UpTiTe wrote:
Training mask don’t mimic high altitude training, nor do they raise white blood cells. They hamper your breathing making your respiratory muscles work harder, which theoretically helps...

Training mask don’t mimic high altitude training, nor do they raise white blood cells. 

They hamper your breathing making your respiratory muscles work harder, which theoretically helps when under a load. 

Gworm wrote:
I would think any time o2 is limited, your body would make more red cells to compensate. Maybe truck could answer this.  But as I said...

I would think any time o2 is limited, your body would make more red cells to compensate. Maybe truck could answer this. 

 But as I said , I don’t think it would work nearly as well as living and training at altitude. 

So, because it doesn’t change the oxygen content, it doesn’t mimic high altitude training. 

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aees
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5/29/2025 12:04pm
aees wrote:
Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.Sorry but I...

Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.

Sorry but I don't see it.

Sure its maybe used to recover from injuries, but it doesn't have the impact/uplift in our sport that It has in other sports, so risk vs reward is debatable.

It's not that hard to grasp.

MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

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kawasa84
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5/29/2025 12:09pm
TbonesPop wrote:
No amount of doping is going to help a rider with throttle control, braking technique, ability to scrub, and corner speed.  It absolutely won't do anything...

No amount of doping is going to help a rider with throttle control, braking technique, ability to scrub, and corner speed.  It absolutely won't do anything for a rider's ability to find the fastest lines on an ever-changing MX track and be able to adjust to a track changing throughout the race and still being able to find the fastest lines.  Fitness isn't what holds the regular top 5-15 place guys from being top 5 or top 3.  It's technique, talent, skill, experience and what's between the ears.  No PED on the market is going to be a magic pill to make top 5-15 guys be top 3.

I agree with this, however, if you're a consistent top 5 rider, podiums instead of a day where 4th place was your best, or even a win when you edged out the other best that day. PED's can make a difference in moto just as in any physical sport. 

It would be the same for guys that are typical 8th to 15th place riders. Even if it only helped them gain on average 2-4 spots better finishes against competition at their ceiling skill level, over the course of the season it equals more money, better rides, more sponsors, and popularity from us having them in the conversation. 

There is no question PED's help atheletes perform better. It won't make you a MLB homerun hitter unless you are already capable. It won't make you a Tour de France winner unless you're already capable, and it won't make you a pro motocross winner unless you're already capable. But you'll be better at all 3 if doing the right PED's the right way.

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MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 12:35pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2025 12:51pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

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truck
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5/29/2025 12:37pm
cable wrote:
Who has the thickest neck and when did this start? Eli’s looks pretty normal. The other winners, you decide.
UpTiTe wrote:
Think about this, I’m going back about 10-15 years because it the most obvious. This is now out dated technology due to them blood testing too...

Think about this, I’m going back about 10-15 years because it the most obvious. This is now out dated technology due to them blood testing too, but some continue because it’s cheap and will pass a piss test. 

Secretion inhibitors in simple terms is used to mask anabol and testosterone by not letting the kidneys filter them out through urine, so it undetectable through a piss test. 

The side effect of secretion inhibitors are the same symptoms of food poisoning, IBS, and stomachaches.

 Go back as early as 2001 and look at the riders who continued to get mysterious stomach bugs, shit their pants during a race, missed a race in Vegas do to stomach problems, missed their race do to food poisoning etc etc. 

The words blood testing is a huge flag too   

Like I’ve said, there are tells, you just need to know where to look. 

Along these same lines, the number of healthy young men in general society who have thyroid disease approaches zero.... in moto this gets talked about like it's the common cold. 

Epo production is stimulated by partial pressure of oxygen in blood so hard to mimic without changing the atmospheric pressure you're in. Masks don't change the oxygen content of the air you're breathing in. Could probably mimic it by breathing in air with higher nitrogen content mixed in but that's how the south executes people now so wouldn't recommend it.

Eli training at altitude certainly would give him a bump in hemoglobin. Goes up a point for every 2000-3000 feet of altitude but takes time to adapt and get there. This is one of the benefits of Olympic training center being in Colorado as well. 

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soggy
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5/29/2025 12:39pm
aees wrote:
Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.Sorry but I...

Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.

Sorry but I don't see it.

Sure its maybe used to recover from injuries, but it doesn't have the impact/uplift in our sport that It has in other sports, so risk vs reward is debatable.

It's not that hard to grasp.

MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

Everyone single one of them. (Assuming they aren’t on it now)

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5/29/2025 12:41pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

Great post! 

Although you’re twenty years out.. Armstrong annihilation of Ulrich up Alpe D’Huez was 2001. 

But yeah, too many people think that ‘doping’ is popping a pill & anybody & everybody could be top tier. Which isn’t true. 

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aees
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5/29/2025 12:43pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.

Deegan is teenager. They have an advantage, besides genes.

1
truck
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5/29/2025 12:46pm
aees wrote:
Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.Sorry but I...

Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.

Sorry but I don't see it.

Sure its maybe used to recover from injuries, but it doesn't have the impact/uplift in our sport that It has in other sports, so risk vs reward is debatable.

It's not that hard to grasp.

MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

A better question is give me a rider who wouldn't? This is no different than Ti bolts or a thousand other miniscule advantages that guys perceive others as having. It's the same thing everyone in baseball and cycling used to convince themselves of. I'm not cheating and I'd be just as good without it, but it's what I have to do to keep up and make things fair. 

A lot of the stuff these guys get sold is just placebo and guys getting rich but if you don't think blood doping helps endurance athletes I don't know what to tell you? 

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1
5/29/2025 12:47pm
aees wrote:
Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.Sorry but I...

Give me a top 5-10 rider that right now would benefit from PED and go all in on that, and jump to top 1-4.

Sorry but I don't see it.

Sure its maybe used to recover from injuries, but it doesn't have the impact/uplift in our sport that It has in other sports, so risk vs reward is debatable.

It's not that hard to grasp.

MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

“I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.”

Given your comments, I seriously doubt it. 

Everybody would benefit from using EPO. 
Every rider, every fan, even your Gran. 

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truck
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5/29/2025 12:49pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

aees wrote:
Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.Deegan is teenager...

Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.

Deegan is teenager. They have an advantage, besides genes.

Natural peak for cardiovascular fitness is not teenage years. Jmart talked about this in a pod recently as one of the reasons guys have figured out they can race longer and don't have to retire at 26.

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MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 12:52pm
Great post! Although you’re twenty years out.. Armstrong annihilation of Ulrich up Alpe D’Huez was 2001. But yeah, too many people think that ‘doping’ is popping a pill...

Great post! 

Although you’re twenty years out.. Armstrong annihilation of Ulrich up Alpe D’Huez was 2001. 

But yeah, too many people think that ‘doping’ is popping a pill & anybody & everybody could be top tier. Which isn’t true. 

Yeah my bad - my mind was thinking 2001 and my fingers typed 2021.

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MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 12:53pm
aees wrote:
Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.Deegan is teenager...

Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.

Deegan is teenager. They have an advantage, besides genes.

OK, not sure what to tell you then.  I hope you're right.  Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you aren't.

GrapeApe
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5/29/2025 12:53pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

Ulrich was admittedly doping and had the same stuff available as Armstrong in '01. 

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aees
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5/29/2025 12:54pm
MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

aees wrote:
Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.Deegan is teenager...

Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.

Deegan is teenager. They have an advantage, besides genes.

truck wrote:
Natural peak for cardiovascular fitness is not teenage years. Jmart talked about this in a pod recently as one of the reasons guys have figured out...

Natural peak for cardiovascular fitness is not teenage years. Jmart talked about this in a pod recently as one of the reasons guys have figured out they can race longer and don't have to retire at 26.

It's not peak. Young people, up to teen age don't produce as much lactic acid and have much better aerobic capabilities.

aees
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5/29/2025 12:55pm
MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

truck wrote:
A better question is give me a rider who wouldn't? This is no different than Ti bolts or a thousand other miniscule advantages that guys perceive...

A better question is give me a rider who wouldn't? This is no different than Ti bolts or a thousand other miniscule advantages that guys perceive others as having. It's the same thing everyone in baseball and cycling used to convince themselves of. I'm not cheating and I'd be just as good without it, but it's what I have to do to keep up and make things fair. 

A lot of the stuff these guys get sold is just placebo and guys getting rich but if you don't think blood doping helps endurance athletes I don't know what to tell you? 

No, give me a rider that you think would bump up in the result list if the used PED. Shouldn't be that hard since it has such an impact on how a rider would perform.

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aees
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5/29/2025 12:56pm
MotoDad32 wrote:

Read up on the benefits of EPO and see if that changes your opinion.

aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

“I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.”Given your comments, I seriously doubt it. Everybody would benefit from using EPO. Every rider, every fan, even...

“I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.”

Given your comments, I seriously doubt it. 

Everybody would benefit from using EPO. 
Every rider, every fan, even your Gran. 

Benefit is not the same as generating a better result in mx.

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MotoDad32
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5/29/2025 1:00pm
aees wrote:

Benefit is not the same as generating a better result in mx.

Maybe this will give you a different perspective, from someone that's been there and done that.  

2
5/29/2025 1:04pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

truck wrote:
A better question is give me a rider who wouldn't? This is no different than Ti bolts or a thousand other miniscule advantages that guys perceive...

A better question is give me a rider who wouldn't? This is no different than Ti bolts or a thousand other miniscule advantages that guys perceive others as having. It's the same thing everyone in baseball and cycling used to convince themselves of. I'm not cheating and I'd be just as good without it, but it's what I have to do to keep up and make things fair. 

A lot of the stuff these guys get sold is just placebo and guys getting rich but if you don't think blood doping helps endurance athletes I don't know what to tell you? 

aees wrote:
No, give me a rider that you think would bump up in the result list if the used PED. Shouldn't be that hard since it has...

No, give me a rider that you think would bump up in the result list if the used PED. Shouldn't be that hard since it has such an impact on how a rider would perform.

Look for the rider who’s lap times drop off towards mid-end of the Moto. That guy! 

But, We don’t know who is already using a PED programme and who isn’t.. 

I don’t really know what answer you’re looking for- you’ve already been told that all the riders would have better endurance if they used it. 
 

1
5/29/2025 1:09pm
aees wrote:

So give me a rider that would make the jump on EPO please.

I'm fully aware of PED. Probably more than most here.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of...

Uh, Deegan?  Watch 2023 Washougal moto 2 a few years ago where he put the beatdown on Cooper.  I think his laptime at the end of the race was 5s faster than anyone else.  Crazy late-moto performance.

That was like Armstrong walking away from Ulrich going up Alpe d'Huez in 2021 (EDIT:  2001, not 2021).  That much of a difference in performance between elite athletes late in a race comes down to one thing and one thing only...and it isn't willpower/determination or anything else other than PEDs.

aees wrote:
Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.Deegan is teenager...

Happens all the time, late moto charge tempo. Chase from last to first (full moto). Herlings from last to first. Tomas 2015. PED? Nope.

Deegan is teenager. They have an advantage, besides genes.

When it comes to the cardiovascular system, which is what we are talking about, Deegan is in his infancy, his age actually hurts him in this department. 

 Your cardio peaks 25-35. 

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TAUTOG
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5/29/2025 1:14pm
To know who is doping in MX is impossible without a PED test.  There are outliers in human performance as has been the case in sports...

To know who is doping in MX is impossible without a PED test.  There are outliers in human performance as has been the case in sports going back thousands of years, all the time and everywhere.  Just because they kick everyone’s ass isn’t proof they are doping.  A lot of people have had theirs asses kicked by that one guy (in all competitive sports) way before PED’s were discovered.

 

UpTiTe wrote:

They’ve been doping in sports since the 50s. 

There are plenty of tells if you know what to look for. 

Doping started much earlier, strychnine was used in the Ancient Olympics 776BC to 394AD, testosterone was used in the 1930s, Human growth hormone use started in...

Doping started much earlier, strychnine was used in the Ancient Olympics 776BC to 394AD, testosterone was used in the 1930s, Human growth hormone use started in the 1950s.

Any thoughts up in that head or just whatever ai says?

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